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Unread 4 Nov 2005, 22:55   #1
s|k
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So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Riots? I don't get it. No thread about this yet either?

We don't care for the French much do we. :/
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Unread 4 Nov 2005, 22:56   #2
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
My gf is going there this weekend, in fact she is there now, but youre right we dont care much for the french.
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Unread 4 Nov 2005, 22:57   #3
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
My gf is going there this weekend, in fact she is there now, but youre right we dont care much for the french.
You may want to watch out for her as women aren't too safe:

Quote:
Attackers doused the woman, in her 50s and on crutches, with an inflammable liquid and set her afire as she tried to get off a bus in the suburb of Sevran, judicial officials said.
(from the NY Times)

Note: shouldn't they use flammable liquid?
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Unread 4 Nov 2005, 23:00   #4
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Note: shouldn't they use flammable liquid?
No. Inflammable means it easily catches on fire.
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Unread 4 Nov 2005, 23:12   #5
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Talking Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Riots? I don't get it. No thread about this yet either?

We don't care for the French much do we. :/
You must understand, if its a riot, it must take place in the U.S. so the rest of the world can talk dirty about us, and our guns. Since it takes place in Paris, it might as well be a non event.

edit:
Neg rep for this?? Damn, some people are a wee bit sensitive.
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Unread 4 Nov 2005, 23:40   #6
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
It appears that for several decades the French have been building modern ghettos with inhuman living conditions and quasi racial segregation.

apparently this has lead to rioting and people feeling that only through acts of extreme violence will their disenfranchised voices be heard.

how utterly unforeseeable.
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Unread 4 Nov 2005, 23:49   #7
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
they're french, they just thought "ah eet will never 'appen to oos"
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Unread 4 Nov 2005, 23:56   #8
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/default.stm

Finishes in about 45 minutes.

You can stream the show then.

the first topic is on the riots in France.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 00:00   #9
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
No. Inflammable means it easily catches on fire.
That's bizarre. If someone is credulous they're gullible and will easily believe in anything. If someone is incredulous they're sceptic and not willing to believe. But flammable and inflammable are not opposites?
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 00:06   #10
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
That's bizarre. If someone is credulous they're gullible and will easily believe in anything. If someone is incredulous they're sceptic and not willing to believe. But flammable and inflammable are not opposites?
Quote:
Originally Posted by a dictionary
Historically, flammable and inflammable mean the same thing. However, the presence of the prefix in- has misled many people into assuming that inflammable means “not flammable” or “noncombustible.” The prefix -in in inflammable is not, however, the Latin negative prefix -in, which is related to the English -un and appears in such words as indecent and inglorious. Rather, this -in is an intensive prefix derived from the Latin preposition in. This prefix also appears in the word enflame. But many people are not aware of this derivation, and for clarity's sake it is advisable to use only flammable to give warnings.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 00:06   #11
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
too slow....
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 00:06   #12
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
French speakers aren't that prominent in English-only forums which is why you don't get many threads about France.

But anyway, yes this has been quite prominent in the UK news for the last couple of days. As Yahwe has said already, the French housing situation (in particular) with regards immigrants (especially of North African descent) is utterly appalling. There are photographs taken in the 1970's & 1980's of housing conditions which when shown in one of my degree lectures almost everyone thought were of apartheid era South Africa.

For a an alternative spin on all of this there are some comments here:
http://sketchythoughts.blogspot.com/...se.html#jumpto
(I doubt the author would say he is not biased in this matter though)
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 00:21   #13
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-X
Quote:
Originally Posted by a dictionary
Historically, flammable and inflammable mean the same thing. However, the presence of the prefix in- has misled many people into assuming that inflammable means “not flammable” or “noncombustible.” The prefix -in in inflammable is not, however, the Latin negative prefix -in, which is related to the English -un and appears in such words as indecent and inglorious. Rather, this -in is an intensive prefix derived from the Latin preposition in. This prefix also appears in the word enflame. But many people are not aware of this derivation, and for clarity's sake it is advisable to use only flammable to give warnings.
Not a very good dictionary, if it can't tell the difference between -in and in-.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 00:23   #14
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Lets face it , its the French killing the French. They dont give a toss about Brits killing Brits , so unless youre going to Eurodisney , we dont give a shit about them.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 00:49   #15
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
French speakers aren't that prominent in English-only forums which is why you don't get many threads about France.

But anyway, yes this has been quite prominent in the UK news for the last couple of days. As Yahwe has said already, the French housing situation (in particular) with regards immigrants (especially of North African descent) is utterly appalling. There are photographs taken in the 1970's & 1980's of housing conditions which when shown in one of my degree lectures almost everyone thought were of apartheid era South Africa.
I find it so upsetting that I can hardly believe it is true.

it is literal ghetto-isation (i'm not too sure about that hyphen but i'm too angry to check)

when one thinks of paris, all consistantly beautiful, uniform architecture, I mean I adore the city greatly, but of course if I had bothered to stop enjoying it and to actually think. Then I would have realised that of course no modern city could be so perfect.

a city is an organic thing not a work of art.

I feel as guilty as the french government ought to feel for 'pretending' that there was no problem.

it's disturbing that this segregation apears to not only follow the difference of wealth, it seems to also follow difference of skin colour.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 01:05   #16
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Two boys went into a power station and got electrocuted (there is no joke). The people on the street said they were running from the police. People started rioting. It'd obviously about grander issues. These riots don't seem as cool as May 68's. Where's the poetry? All good French riots have poetry.

It'll be interesting how this develops. This could spark a whole new debate on immigration. Something is happening here but we don't know what it is, do we, mr. jones.

Can I slow clap whoever posted the 'they don't give a shit about us and so we shouldn't give a shit about them' remark? Thanks.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 01:07   #17
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeks
Two boys went into a power station and got electrocuted (there is no joke). The people on the street said they were running from the police.
any silly spark will light a fire if there is enough tinder

EDIT: the birmingham riot was another good example.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4407134.stm
I see that even my beautiful Europe still has teething troubles.
But we must Endure.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 01:22   #18
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-X
Quote:
Originally Posted by a dictionary
Historically, flammable and inflammable mean the same thing. However, the presence of the prefix in- has misled many people into assuming that inflammable means “not flammable” or “noncombustible.” The prefix -in in inflammable is not, however, the Latin negative prefix -in, which is related to the English -un and appears in such words as indecent and inglorious. Rather, this -in is an intensive prefix derived from the Latin preposition in. This prefix also appears in the word enflame. But many people are not aware of this derivation, and for clarity's sake it is advisable to use only flammable to give warnings.
An invaluable contribution 1-X. I thank you.


More on topic, to risk being accused of melodrama how far we have come and how much further we have to go.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 01:23   #19
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
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Originally Posted by s|k
But flammable and inflammable are not opposites?
They both mean that something will catch fire / burn easily
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 01:26   #20
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
it's disturbing that this segregation apears to not only follow the difference of wealth, it seems to also follow difference of skin colour.
Mainly I think its between persons of native-French descent (ie. white catholics) and persons of North African descent (Algeria, Morroco & Tunisia mainly - similar problem to Spain) who if memory serves are mainly Islamic.

In a sensationalist way...
Birmingham riots,
Paris riots,
Iraq,
The new crusades (although not mandated by the heads of a religion) between Christianity and Islam?
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 01:31   #21
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
More on topic, to risk being accused of melodrama how far we have come and how much further we have to go.
what to you want me to say jonny?

"Ha ha! It's alright my prililedge position means I can pretend suffering doesn't exist while i munch my caviar in peace"
"I'm a god"
"Mortals have always caused pain to each other. Frankly I prefered the big lizzards!"

hmmm?

This second generation peacetime generation seems to think that peace is a god given right. I am not advocating more wars. But the country you highlight (but for all the wrong reasons) is a good example.

It is true that if we the west do nothing then there will be war between Ethiopia and Eritea. Bob Geldof can go shaft himself with a cactus because the casualities of such a war will far out number a famine.

But tell me. We are an educated user base. Who among us knows of the massive troop build up on the border betwixt these two? Who here can put hand on heart and say that they know wher 50% of Ethiopia's military forces are currently positioned?

Peace takes much much more effort than war. Mortals like making war. It's a substitute for when CS gets boring.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 01:33   #22
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by A2
Mainly I think its between persons of native-French descent (ie. white catholics) and persons of North African descent (Algeria, Morroco & Tunisia mainly - similar problem to Spain) who if memory serves are mainly Islamic.
citizens of the old French Empire.

Tell me how many jamaicans are currently rioting in Britain.

The French have ****ed up bigtime. They've made mistakes we made 40 years ago. We are all supposed to be better than this.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 01:45   #23
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
what to you want me to say jonny?

"Ha ha! It's alright my prililedge position means I can pretend suffering doesn't exist while i munch my caviar in peace"
"I'm a god"
"Mortals have always caused pain to each other. Frankly I prefered the big lizzards!"

hmmm?

This second generation peacetime generation seems to think that peace is a god given right. I am not advocating more wars. But the country you highlight (but for all the wrong reasons) is a good example.

It is true that if we the west do nothing then there will be war between Ethiopia and Eritea. Bob Geldof can go shaft himself with a cactus because the casualities of such a war will far out number a famine.

But tell me. We are an educated user base. Who among us knows of the massive troop build up on the border betwixt these two? Who here can put hand on heart and say that they know wher 50% of Ethiopia's military forces are currently positioned?

Peace takes much much more effort than war. Mortals like making war. It's a substitute for when CS gets boring.
Woha, I was just advising a healthy dose of skepticism towards all utopian ideals and of the remarkable progress of liberal democracy. I think you have read a bit too much into what I said. I was aware there had been a war between ethiopia and etritea (albeit vaguely), I have no idea over the current degree of tension between the two countries other than a "it could be probably be better" sort of thing. I have difficulty understanding your post to be honest.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 02:05   #24
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Woha, I was just advising a healthy dose of skepticism towards all utopian ideals and of the remarkable progress of liberal democracy. I think you have read a bit too much into what I said. I was aware there had been a war between ethiopia and etritea (albeit vaguely), I have no idea over the current degree of tension between the two countries other than a "it could be probably be better" sort of thing. I have difficulty understanding your post to be honest.
sorry for going bonkers.

it's just that there's going to be another war.

and wars make me sad.

(clever as i am supposed to be I am actually that simple. I really don't want another Ethiopian Eritean war.)

sorry
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 02:36   #25
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
"Ha ha! It's alright my prililedge position means I can pretend suffering doesn't exist while i munch my caviar in peace"
A little off topic (but there's been worse in threads)...
I was under the impression that the best caviar was Beluga Caviar from the sturgeon of the Caspian Sea. Since this area was under Soviet control how was this sourced to other parts of the world (such as the UK) during the Cold War? Were inferior regions supplies accepted, did the Iron Curtain not apply to such luxuries (necessities[?] in some parts of society) or am I completley wrong about the whole thing?
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 03:00   #26
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Iran



EDIT: and I still to this day buy mostly Iranian caviar.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 03:11   #27
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaneED
they're french, they just thought "ah eet will never 'appen to oos"
You'd have thought that after the French Revolution, two World Wars and de Gaulle, they'd have got over any kind of "ah eet will never 'appen to oos" mentality.

N'est pas?
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 03:16   #28
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead_Meat
You'd have thought that after the French Revolution, two World Wars and de Gaulle, they'd have got over any kind of "ah eet will never 'appen to oos" mentality.

N'est pas?
look no one ever said that KaneED was bright!
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 03:35   #29
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
At least he's not French.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 07:30   #30
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
But tell me. We are an educated user base. Who among us knows of the massive troop build up on the border betwixt these two? Who here can put hand on heart and say that they know wher 50% of Ethiopia's military forces are currently positioned?
On the border between both countries I believe.

It was on the World Service news a couple of nights ago.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 07:44   #31
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Military forces meaning a bunch of guys in pickup trucks with mismatched guns.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 10:09   #32
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Am i the only one seeing the end result of this being more il/legal immigrants coming to britain?
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 14:40   #33
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Exclamation Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
There are photographs taken in the 1970's & 1980's of housing conditions which when shown in one of my degree lectures almost everyone thought were of apartheid era South Africa.
French low-end housing has always been awful, regardless of ethnicity. I have a picture in a book of mine of a French family - a white family - in the late 1950's or so, and the children are pretty much barefoot and the family are living in what amounts to a tin shelter.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 18:51   #34
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
I enjoy the way the press cover the riots.

RIOTS TAKE MALEVOLENT TURN was the headline on the MSNBC website when I looked at it this morning.

OMG! And usually the riots are so benificent. This is terrible.

EDIT: I tried to post a link to the article but they had changed the headline.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 18:54   #35
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
French low-end housing has always been awful, regardless of ethnicity. I have a picture in a book of mine of a French family - a white family - in the late 1950's or so, and the children are pretty much barefoot and the family are living in what amounts to a tin shelter.
I've heard that Brixton is a really posh place too
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 18:55   #36
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
I've heard that Brixton is a really posh place too
You probably couldn't afford to live in Brixton.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 18:56   #37
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
I've heard that Brixton is a really posh place too
Have you been there recently? It's actually got yuppie flats springing up everywhere apparently.
Moving upmarket and all.

Now Peckham... That's a ghetto...
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 18:58   #38
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
citizens of the old French Empire.

Tell me how many jamaicans are currently rioting in Britain.

The French have ****ed up bigtime. They've made mistakes we made 40 years ago. We are all supposed to be better than this.


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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 19:04   #39
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 19:38   #40
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
You probably couldn't afford to live in Brixton.
Ofcourse I could Dante, I come from Norway etc

To be a bit serious, I was hinting at the riots in Brixton some years ago.
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 21:22   #41
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Ofcourse I could Dante, I come from Norway etc

To be a bit serious, I was hinting at the riots in Brixton some years ago.
the one 24 years ago ... in contrast to 9 nights of consecutive rioting in paris in 2005?

you can be so useful to intellectual debate.

you're like a koen mark II
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Unread 6 Nov 2005, 00:55   #42
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Interior Minister's Nicolas Sarkozy has outraged many inhabitants of the estates by saying they should be "pressure-cleaned" of all the "scum" who live there.

But such comments may go down well with a part of the electorate ahead of the 2007 elections which are already dominating French politics.

Mrs Jallon's husband, also a teacher, was not sure of the exact mathematical relationship between the numbers of cars burnt and votes for the right-wing but said the violence would definitely help candidates calling for tougher law-and-order and immigration policies.

Some young rioters in Aulnay said the violence would continue until Mr Sarkorzy resigned for his insulting comments and what they see as racist policing.

It could be that on the contrary, they are actually helping his election campaign.
Heh
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Unread 6 Nov 2005, 13:29   #43
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Yes, lets burn cars.

That will solve this conundrum.

Does this riot have any spokesman besides a 65 year old unemployed fat sack of fanatic crap ?
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Unread 7 Nov 2005, 02:40   #44
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
a city is an organic thing not a work of art.

That comming from someone who lives in London, a city which actually is one big pile of small villages.

Paris, untill about the 1960's was one of the most well designed cities of the Western World, like Vienna. However, because during the democratisation and bureaucratisation of city goverment change, as everywhere, became less and less achievable, change would occur slower and far less fargoing as one, with hindsight, ought to have deemed necesarry.
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Unread 7 Nov 2005, 02:46   #45
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
my gf is back from paris safely. luckily she is rich. so stayed in a nice hotel in the city centre and didnt even realise riots go on. Look what money gives you!
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Unread 7 Nov 2005, 02:47   #46
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
That comming from someone who lives in London, a city which actually is one big pile of small villages.
That is actually entriely his point. London is a city which has grown organically. Paris with it's precious "design" is one which has not, and thus as you say, change is not as possible as it is desirable.
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Unread 7 Nov 2005, 02:51   #47
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
infact most of britains cities are little villages collected under a banner.

ill speak about birmingham as thats what I know but theres loads of little areas in the city

Acocks Green
Aston
Little Aston
Great Barr
Kingstanding
Perry Barr
Erdington
Mosely
Edgbaston
Small Heath
Sparkbrook
Handsworth
Smethwick
Sutton Coldfield

and well the list goes on and on. its what makes a city unique. each area is different and has its own aspects.
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Unread 7 Nov 2005, 02:59   #48
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
That is actually entriely his point. London is a city which has grown organically. Paris with it's precious "design" is one which has not, and thus as you say, change is not as possible as it is desirable.
My silent point was that, and this is my opinion, how I like cities, is that I like a city designed, that it makes traffic controlable, that it makes the best better and at times the bad things, worse. But that is because the solution wasn't thought through, but at least they thought about it. While I think London is far more inefficient, and London barely tackles certain issues centrally, which, as history has proven, is a long term effective method of tackling society (as in city, region, nation) wide issues. Unfortunately, here it was tackled wrong.
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Unread 7 Nov 2005, 03:00   #49
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
The French Revolution II: This time it's personal
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Unread 7 Nov 2005, 03:07   #50
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Re: So what's this thing going on in Paris?
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Originally Posted by pig
my gf is back from paris safely.
One of the things that's relatively noteworthy is that so far I've not heard of any reported deaths. The BBC says 10 police officers have been wounded but no fatalities yet.

This would seem to me to imply heavily that the people rioting are very much focussing their efforts against property (if 1300 and counting cars have been burnt out) and the police. In Birmingham two people were killed in one night of much smaller scale disturbances.
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