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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 13:17   #1
Osidiradadumpf
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Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

After seeing that severall planets are attacking the botplanets over and over and over again, i think its time to create some restrictions in this field.
At the moment its nothing more then PATEAM-approved farming and for so far i know, farming is still against the rules..

The botplanets are created to give new players an possibility to learn how to attack, which is a good thing. Last round i have sent severall new players in our gal to 1.1 so that they learn how to pick targets, built a workable attack-fleet and do the needed jpg's etc.

What i think is best to restrict the number of launches to those botplanets to a fixed number, or you could make it part of the Quest.. Just a idea or so.. because its getting silly if an planet with over 1k roids is still attacking the bots.
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 15:14   #2
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Yeah, anything people do over and over again is clearly abusive.
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 15:26   #3
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osidiradadumpf
After seeing that severall planets are attacking the botplanets over and over and over again, i think its time to create some restrictions in this field.
At the moment its nothing more then PATEAM-approved farming and for so far i know, farming is still against the rules..

The botplanets are created to give new players an possibility to learn how to attack, which is a good thing. Last round i have sent severall new players in our gal to 1.1 so that they learn how to pick targets, built a workable attack-fleet and do the needed jpg's etc.

What i think is best to restrict the number of launches to those botplanets to a fixed number, or you could make it part of the Quest.. Just a idea or so.. because its getting silly if an planet with over 1k roids is still attacking the bots.
There is no doubt in my mind that this is getting abused by a few certain individuals. Not that im gonna name names however. I still think the bots are a bad idea, and have been saying so ever since it got started.
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 17:23   #4
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

I disagree with you karg. I think bots are a great idea still in its infancy.
I also disagree with you, Osidie, any restrictions imposed will be a cat's 5th leg.
But I agree 100% with Banned. Abuse should be proscribed.

If we don't want people abusing the bots, then lets lower the bots values and # of roids. That, in my opinion, is the best simplest most efficient way to control abuse.

Rookies & Vets wanna keep attacking a 100k value with 100 roids, why stop them? they are only hurting themselves. But, as long as tiny players are able to attack them, they should be free to do so. AND WITHOUT HAVING ADMIN. STEAL/KILL THEIR SHIPS (this, in my opinion, is the epitome of ineptitude).

Last edited by Aedolaws; 1 Jul 2008 at 17:42.
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 18:13   #5
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aedolaws
But I agree 100% with Banned. Abuse should be proscribed. .
He was being sarcastic, and rightfully so.
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 18:35   #6
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aedolaws
I disagree with you karg. I think bots are a great idea still in its infancy.
I also disagree with you, Osidie, any restrictions imposed will be a cat's 5th leg.
But I agree 100% with Banned. Abuse should be proscribed.

If we don't want people abusing the bots, then lets lower the bots values and # of roids. That, in my opinion, is the best simplest most efficient way to control abuse.

Rookies & Vets wanna keep attacking a 100k value with 100 roids, why stop them? they are only hurting themselves. But, as long as tiny players are able to attack them, they should be free to do so. AND WITHOUT HAVING ADMIN. STEAL/KILL THEIR SHIPS (this, in my opinion, is the epitome of ineptitude).
And restricting the bots value and roids is not a restriction?
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 18:50   #7
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Why shouldn't admin be allowed to kill/steal ships? Do not deny me the little bits of salvage that I get when I defend my beloved galaxy!!!
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 19:23   #8
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

so your ship farming then fiery ?
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 19:32   #9
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

I didn't ask anyone to attack my galaxy nor did I make arrangements with anyone to attack my galaxy. And I can't steal ships anyways. I'm xan.
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 19:53   #10
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
There is no doubt in my mind that this is getting abused by a few certain individuals. Not that im gonna name names however. I still think the bots are a bad idea, and have been saying so ever since it got started.
i have to agree with kargool

omg did i write this, i must be lost...

anyhow, why at all have bot planets, which encourage farming, and tbh i am not worried about roids, cause roids can be taken away easily, and more roids in the universe isnt a bad thing.

I am heavily concerned about Player farming full fleets, as those bots dont run their ships (pls correct me if that is wrong)

there is enough targets out in the universe to do targetpractice, no need for bots in 1:1

also i am against any action which has influence on the game from 1:1
not farming roids, ships. nor do i think it should hold one of the top covopers!

why do admins need a planet at all??? if its to monitor anything, then close 1:1 for every action, like c200 is closed

pls this is just unbalancing the game
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 20:49   #11
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Fiery, u can defend all you want the other players in the gal... not the bots.

Unlike Morph3us I do not mind having a playing 1.1, I understand some of you like to play every now and then. But not farming n00by ships farming bots. Again, poisoned candy.

And again, I do not think bots can be abused in any substantial manner if we make them small enough to be outgrown quickly by the average starting player.
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 21:20   #12
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

If we want to have 'easy' targets .. so that new players can learn how to do an attack then those bots need to be semi-active. This also means that they will get score/value.

Consider an average bot planet of 250k value it will mean that an planet up to an value of 1mln still can attack them.. And this is exactly what is happening..

Also planets who want to 'abuse' the bot planets can make sure that their value won't go up much.. For instance by sending the income of their roids to the Ally they are in.. Meaning less taxes for the rest of their ally.

A bot planet without defenses is a farm. For new players there is nothing to gain in experience or training. When I asked our new (unpaid players) to attack 1.1 I made sure to check their bcalcs., explained them to do an JPG etc etc. All what an real player is going to do on a real attack.

The best and most simple way to prevent people farming the bots planets is to restrict the number of times you can attack 1.1 Make it something you can do in your first 100 or so turns.. or something as long as your value is below the avarage of 1.1 gal or whatever. An active player DOESN"T need to attack 1.1 if an player keeps on attacking that gal, then he is not taking part of the game..

In my eyes Planetarion is a game of outsmarting OTHER players and its getting too repetitive anyway..
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 21:32   #13
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

ok, I see your angle. I can see a few exploiting it. ok.

Fine, I guess u right. Put a cap per planet, 3 times or so.

And I guess at current tech there is no way of having them defend themselves, so I guess 1.1 should also defend.

I concede.

===

Now, if this is the case? why not have bots everywhere! say, 1 per gal... say, #1 in the gal? But this is a whole new thing... and kargool is already mad at me, well, 3/4 of u r.
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Unread 1 Jul 2008, 22:15   #14
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osidiradadumpf
Also planets who want to 'abuse' the bot planets can make sure that their value won't go up much.. For instance by sending the income of their roids to the Ally they are in.. Meaning less taxes for the rest of their ally.
Yeah. That sounds real smart. Keeping your value low so you can attack planets for... let's see, how much xp?

Quote:
2008-07-01 23:04:47 <@mz> ~xp 1 1 14
2008-07-01 23:04:47 -Munin- Target 1:1:14 (249k|361k) | Attacker 5:10:2 (405k|970k) | Bravery: 0.89 | Roids: 83 | XP: 73 | Score: 4380
73! YEAH BABY

Not to mention that it doesn't even work; the amount of res you can donate to your alliance is (stupidly, but still) limited to a certain percentage (I think 5 or 10%).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osidiradadumpf
In my eyes Planetarion is a game of outsmarting OTHER players and its getting too repetitive anyway..
In your eyes. I have eyes of my own.



Keeping all that in mind, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be that hard to make bots run their fleet when staying would mean (example) 2:1 or worse losses.
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Unread 2 Jul 2008, 11:51   #15
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Yeah. That sounds real smart. Keeping your value low so you can attack planets for... let's see, how much xp?


73! YEAH BABY
Don't get theories stand in the way of the FACTS.
People are keeping on raiding 1.1 just to get roids. They didn't gained much xp, but thanks to the relative high value of the botplanets they can continue doing that.
Yeah, they are NOT going to win the round doing that.. but it is and it stays FARMING. Do we want to have an game in wich roids farming is allowed?? Yes or No?? And if we don't allow it, whats the difference between having an farm in 1.1 and one farm in the rest of the game.
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Unread 2 Jul 2008, 13:37   #16
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Its pretty easy to see where they come from tho!

Since there is a gal banner in 1:1 showing so

Go asc! you sent like 20 attack fleets to 1:1 this night! or was it even more ?
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Unread 2 Jul 2008, 14:24   #17
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osidiradadumpf
Don't get theories stand in the way of the FACTS.
People are keeping on raiding 1.1 just to get roids. They didn't gained much xp, but thanks to the relative high value of the botplanets they can continue doing that.
Yeah, they are NOT going to win the round doing that.. but it is and it stays FARMING. Do we want to have an game in wich roids farming is allowed?? Yes or No?? And if we don't allow it, whats the difference between having an farm in 1.1 and one farm in the rest of the game.
First of all, yes, I want farming to be legalised, but that's a completely different subject (and I hope you could refrain from turning this into a "to farm or not to farm" discussion).

Secondly, it's not farming. The bots can't consent, which is a critical requirement.

And thirdly, why do you care what other people do? As you admitted yourself, it's an inferior strategy, so the more people that do this, the further up the rankings the people who do have balls will go. It seems like a win-win to me; you get to go up in the rankings, they get to do what they like.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritfire
Go asc! you sent like 20 attack fleets to 1:1 this night! or was it even more ?
No idea. Does it matter?

I would like to add that I personally have attacked the bot planets a grand total of 3 times since they were introduced, and that protecting the strategies of my beloved alliance buddies is the last thing on my mind. This makes sense, because the strategy in question is shit. So, if I were biased, I should be against the presence of the bot planets, as they weaken my alliance.
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 2 Jul 2008 at 14:32.
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Unread 2 Jul 2008, 18:11   #18
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritfire
Its pretty easy to see where they come from tho!

Since there is a gal banner in 1:1 showing so

Go asc! you sent like 20 attack fleets to 1:1 this night! or was it even more ?
most likely to farm ships though, and build up fleets, which the other alliances have to mess with in the end

i dunno why PA CREW allows that

and tbh the galbanner, who cares about that ? ppl joke about it some days and then....those stolen ships have way more of an impact most likely

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Unread 2 Jul 2008, 18:41   #19
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

So asc sent a lot of attackfleets at 1:1. I wonder if someone might be missing a loophole here since Asc seem happy to abuse it. I know a few asc planets (HI GAME) that has more than 1k rocks, all of them gotten from 1:1. That's just lame but if its a strategy they prefer, then i guess its okay.. But botplanets should be limited seriously next round.
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Unread 3 Jul 2008, 09:17   #20
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
So asc sent a lot of attackfleets at 1:1. I wonder if someone might be missing a loophole here since Asc seem happy to abuse it.
WHINE


Quote:
I know a few asc planets (HI GAME) that has more than 1k rocks, all of them gotten from 1:1.
WHINE

Quote:
That's just lame but if its a strategy they prefer, then i guess its okay.. But botplanets should be limited seriously next round.
WHINE




Thank god it was such a brief post. Now let's be serious, it's not a loophole or an abuse, it's an inbuilt feature. If it's going tits up it's probably because the person who designed the whole mess didn't quite think it through, and winded up simply setting up legit farms for Game. Fair play. Now go farm them yourself too.
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Unread 3 Jul 2008, 16:09   #21
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Now go farm them yourself too.
cba
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Unread 27 Jul 2008, 12:39   #22
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

The 1:1 bot planets look to me to be a desperate effort to do something about the shrinking universe.

Sadly its now obvious that by solely attacking them, cleverly run planets can soon grow faster and with considerably less risk than by attacking planets run by people.

The comedy "name and shame" gal banner looks like a pathetic attempt to address this, but its clearly not going to work - or maybe im reading too much into that?

Maybe (and more worryingly) its just bored admins having a laugh?

Maybe they should actually make it impossible to attack anyone /except/ the bot planets? The winning alliance / galaxy can be the ones that are most successful at this.
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Unread 28 Jul 2008, 09:53   #23
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

So hardcode the bot planets to be crappy targets for anyone other than newbies.
Severe lack of roids and all that.

problem solved without requiring regulation
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Unread 1 Aug 2008, 23:22   #24
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

I've never attacked 1.1, but I do think it is a good way for new inexperienced players to get used to attacking and practice using a calc to plan an attack. limiting it to even once is fine by me. It isn't farming per se, it's for instruction. Limit the roids to whatever you want, 50, 100 etc. Make it a training field only and not a means of abuse.

This game isn't that hard to learn, but new people deserve a break too. Experienced players who want to attack 1.1 have their own problems, but we won't get into that.

Live and learn
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Unread 1 Aug 2008, 23:52   #25
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

The game is hard for newbies, the bot are there to make it easier for them??? Then make it more obvious make it a requirment in the quests
#11 attack a bot planet in galaxy 1:1.
And limited to just that attack or maybe to players who have fewer than 400 roids.
either that or put on in each galaxy so that they can be attacked by newbie in allaince attacks.
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Unread 2 Aug 2008, 04:43   #26
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

A quest to attack a particular planet is completely pointless, I wouldnt be opposed to a quest to attack a planet in general, but to attack a planet in a particular galaxy? Give me a break, I dont think any new player that will be sticking around will ever need that much guidance, maybe thats just me having too much faith in people, but I have never seen anyone start out and not immediately start getting excited about attacking someone.
While this might provide for a safer way to do it, that isnt the way to get good players, that is the way to get the players asking for handouts, something I dont think any of us want.

To any of those who want someone else to tell you where to attack: Get an alliance, that is their job.
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Unread 2 Aug 2008, 12:11   #27
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpathia View Post
I've never attacked 1.1, but I do think it is a good way for new inexperienced players to get used to attacking and practice using a calc to plan an attack. limiting it to even once is fine by me. It isn't farming per se, it's for instruction. Limit the roids to whatever you want, 50, 100 etc. Make it a training field only and not a means of abuse.

This game isn't that hard to learn, but new people deserve a break too. Experienced players who want to attack 1.1 have their own problems, but we won't get into that.

Live and learn
Sounds good usage for them, how ever I dont think we need such bot planets at all. Just get rid of them...
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Unread 2 Aug 2008, 12:22   #28
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubert Samson View Post
A quest to attack a particular planet is completely pointless, I wouldnt be opposed to a quest to attack a planet in general, but to attack a planet in a particular galaxy? Give me a break, I dont think any new player that will be sticking around will ever need that much guidance, maybe thats just me having too much faith in people, but I have never seen anyone start out and not immediately start getting excited about attacking someone.
While this might provide for a safer way to do it, that isnt the way to get good players, that is the way to get the players asking for handouts, something I dont think any of us want.

To any of those who want someone else to tell you where to attack: Get an alliance, that is their job.
I think the quest should not only tell people to attack, but also as a lasy quest to apply to an existing alliance...
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Unread 3 Aug 2008, 06:52   #29
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

There is a quest to apply to an alliance.

Even though it holds no water because all you have to do is apply and then retract it if you dont want to actually join the alliance

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?p=3148937
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Unread 3 Aug 2008, 10:10   #30
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

put the bot planets in c200... :P problem solved!
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Unread 3 Aug 2008, 11:41   #31
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Re: Restrictions on bot-planets 'abuse'

Nah, dont change it, so jer can signup late and finish top 5 again lol
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