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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 15:55   #1
Mzyxptlk
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Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

The last two rounds we've seen the introduction of a new feature: the ability for people who sign up at or after tick 336 to pick which galaxy to join, by a mechanism similar to that of joining a BP (with a code).

I think this is a bad development, and I suggest removing it for next round.

Why? Because
1) People who sign up late will always be the underdog. This means people who sign up late get attacked more often, stay smaller than other planets in their galaxy and will thus (generally speaking) not enjoy the game as much as they would if they'd signed up at round start.

2) People who know there will be a chance to join a galaxy of their choosing at tick 336 will sooner decide not to sign up at round start than people who know there is no such feature. In Ascendancy for one I've seen a small but significant number of people who, were trying to find a BP they could join at 336, despite the fact that they were able to join at tick 0. In short, this feature decreases the total number of signups.
Furthermore, people who already know pa and who do sign up later are as much as likely to quit as new players are, as per point 1.

3) To the best of my knowledge, this feature was implemented so that people could introduce new people to the game. However, PA players who want to introduce people to the game can do this just as well at round start as they can at tick 336. (Better in fact, see point 1.)
At the same time, people who already know about PA will, by point 2, delay signing up, thus negating the possible (but in my opinion negligible) beneficent effects

4) The tick 336 signups would be an addition to the galaxy, sort of like an extension of the buddypack. However, this round we've seen a decrease in BP size from 5 to 4, and simultaneously, an increase in tick 336 signups from 1 to 2. This does not seem like an addition to me, this is a replacement. In turn, this replacement ties in neatly with point 2.

Thoughts?

[edit]grammar
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 31 Mar 2008 at 18:57.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 16:02   #2
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

My name is jupp^afk and .... i'm an alcoholic



And i might also signup at pt336 despite being able to play from pt1
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 16:50   #3
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

As far as your point 1 goes, I see it more of a way for people who missed the round start for whatever reason to be less of an underdog and be at a significantly smaller disadvantage with the support of a bp ingal, rather than if they'd just got put in a random gal where with them starting late they'd be exiled time after time.

2, As far as people choosing not to sign up at tick 0 then meh, personally i cant see why you'd choose to disadvantage yourself so much with missing a third of the round, and take yourself out of the running for a decent planet. I'm sure it does happen, but i'm damned if i can see the reasoning behind it.

3, Again, i see it as an option for players new or old who missed the round start and wish to give themselves the best possible chances of doing well. In this case its beneficial for people to have the advantages of a bp rather than just going random, tho how many totally new people will have friends already in bp's is debatable.

4, Yeah it does seem like a replacement, it'd be interesting to see how many more bp's their are this round than last, and how many people actually got added to bps from tick 336 onwards as well. However the fact that the number of gals is set before is important, presuming that people use tick 336 to add members and the amount of actual bp's and therefore gals is increased, means that you have a greater proportion of players in bp's than before, which creates more gals and as such smaller gals, even if you can end up with the same number of people in the bp after tick 336. So yes it is an addition to bp's, but it has the desired effect of making smaller gals.

so yeah, in my view at least it was intended to allow players who signed up late a better chance of doing well by joining an established bp, rather than waiting for the next round/not bothering because their too far behind or w/e.
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Last edited by Ceadrath; 31 Mar 2008 at 17:10.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 17:36   #4
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

How would new players get access to such a code? Before signing up? Before knowing what the game even entails?

Old players hold all the cards, they can join alliances, they know how to play the game. I see no reason to give them any further benefits.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 17:59   #5
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

Well they wouldn't, hence why i said that it would be debatable whether new players would know anyone in bp's anyway.

I think your overstating the benefits of having 2 people sign up late, you said it yourself in point 1, their at a significant disadvantage and way behind planets that sign up tick 0. though looking back you seem to contradict yourself in point 2 so im not sure what your getting at their

Again, in my opinion it was intended to allow players coming late into the round a better chance of not getting bashed/exiled when they sign up and to give them the chance to be more competitive rather than just not bothering for that round at all. If existing bp's want to invite players in half way through the round then their taking on a liability due to how far behind they are, which id say outweighs any benefit of having an active player ingal, especially considering the relative ease of exiling into a gal as it is.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 18:57   #6
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

Having reread both my posts, I see no contradicion. Please point it out?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 19:59   #7
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
1) People who sign up late will always be the underdog. This means people who sign up late get attacked more often, stay smaller than other planets in their galaxy and will thus (generally speaking) not enjoy the game as much as they would if they'd signed up at round start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
In Ascendancy for one I've seen a small but significant number of people who, were trying to find a BP they could join at 336, despite the fact that they were able to join at tick 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I see no reason to give them any further benefits.
Your second point implies that players would hold off signing up because its a better option (or at least that's how i interpreted it, cos i cant see any other reason why you wouldn't not sign up at pt 0) and this is after you said that its disadvantageous to sign up late.

You then said that its an advantage to have a planet be able to sign up after tick 336.

In my view its a hinderence to take on a new sign up after tick 336, and your first point seems to suggest the same thing, but then you go on to suggest that its some sort of advantage which is where i was confused. The advantage of this system how it is now is that late sigups can end up in a friendly gal that will take the extra effort to help them grow.


EDIT: it just struck me that by your point is that planets who dont use the buddy pack code thingy are at a disadvantage as opposed to planets that do, which makes the rest of your stuff make sense and that we're arguing totally different points.
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Last edited by Ceadrath; 31 Mar 2008 at 20:34.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 20:36   #8
Mzyxptlk
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

lol, yeah
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 22:22   #9
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

arent they benefecial at first place anyway.. people with contacts and a known way to play the game.

so why not let them use the contacts to signup decent. Add a PC option weather to accept new flesh mid round or not... then randoms could join to people who dont have contacts left to signup.
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Unread 1 Apr 2008, 09:09   #10
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

This was more if someone signed up and said "hey, this game is ok, maybe I can get my mate in". Or more experienced players, who want to get a friend to play, can say "hey, come play IN MY GALAXY" rather than "come play in some random galaxy and never see me".

Alternatively, some people do miss tick start for holidays etc, or initially think "I won't play" but then everyone else does so they want to play again - they can sign up and play with friends.

It's actually easier to start smaller in a bigger galaxy - less likely to be hit, able to initiate more roids than you would otherwise be able to, etc...

Finally, the decision to change it to 2 people tick 336 and 4 now was taken so we have more buddy packs but the same possible number of "private" people. It's a bit of an experiment - partly to see how many people use their private invite. I know that last round, some people came to me complaining they had lots of people wanting to sign up. I have no doubt that, for abuse (xp whoring is the major one here, to "catch up"), or to get friends to play with you for whatever reason, some fair % of the middle/ high galaxies will use their invite.

Someone remind me end of round and I'll look for exactly the %.
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Unread 30 Apr 2008, 00:01   #11
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

plz remove this option, its yet again another feature of the game which is intended to make it better. But ends up making it more crappy
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Unread 30 Apr 2008, 12:24   #12
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

I would never have bothered with this round without the tick 336 join feature. I really didn't want to bother with 7 weeks of a potentially crap galaxy, but with the invite I'm getting 5 weeks of a decent galaxy. By the time protection is over and you get started, this is down to 4.5 weeks already!

So instead of having to wake up at stupid times for 6.5 weeks of a round, I've cut it down to 4.5 weeks.
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Unread 30 Apr 2008, 12:54   #13
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

I joined up to 2:4 late this round out of necessity but I will probably use the late join code again next round by choice. Assuming it's still available.

The reason is that it's like playing a completely different game, which is a bit refreshing and more fun (in my opinion of course) than a full round. In this current format it's actually quite important for galaxies aiming high to have late signups who will generate good xp and play with the galaxy in mind, so your planet still provides a vital contribution, even if the best you can hope for personally is a high Top100.

All of which goes to sustain mz's point that these codes are generally being used in an elitist way, to generate score rather than community involvement. That said I'm happy with it either way.
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Unread 1 May 2008, 19:59   #14
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

Personally I like the late signup and am using it this round, however i think that 2 late signups is a tad excessive as that favours the top gals as alot of the middle->low gals will seriously struggle to fill those gaps. Reverting to the 5 BP with 1 late signup would be a better format in my opinion!
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Unread 17 May 2008, 06:13   #15
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Re: Scrap the PT336 BP-join feature

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeyLove
Personally I like the late signup and am using it this round, however i think that 2 late signups is a tad excessive as that favours the top gals as alot of the middle->low gals will seriously struggle to fill those gaps. Reverting to the 5 BP with 1 late signup would be a better format in my opinion!
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