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15 Oct 2005, 11:01
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#1
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Up The Hatters!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
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Kargools extended suggestion thread
I've got some suggestions and I would like to share it with the community.
Instead of creating several threads and spamming the forum. I put all into one thread.
Suggestion 1:
First a concept I want to have people look at.
Morale: With this being an unrealistic space war and strategy game, I want to add morale to the game. For example. All races start with a generic morale based on their own race. It could be leveled from: Superb, very good, good, ok, poor, very poor. With a successfull attack with no losses you rise a morale level. With a successfull defence the same. With a successfull defence with minor losses the u rise, with unsuccessfull defence you lose one level of morale. With a unsuccessfull attack where you lose some ships (i.e) emped out you lose a morale level, and with a sucessfull attack but you lose your ships u lose one morale level (no more xphording), etc. My suggestion about what gives and takes morale isnt perfect but its a start.
Now, what would morale do? Well, there are many things it can do. Having a high morale could give you cheaper ships (i.e ship prices reduces by 2% or more pr level of morale u have over OK. and if it goes to poor or very poor it is more expensive 2-4% (notice that I made the negative level less than the positive level, this is something that can be discussed but I think its a okay rule) Morale could also effect construction/research and mining output the same way or affect different things for different races.
Suggestion 2: Commandship: I would love to have something like this in fleets. If you lose your leaderships you will lose expirienced commanders and ur fleet will have less effect. (The leader ship gives everyone 2-3% more armor) If lost, u lose one morale level, and the armor bonus. This also opens up for a new construction. Military academy. When you lose your leadership. Military academy makes you gain new leaders. The more Academys u got, the faster you regain your command ship.
Suggestion 3: Battlereport. I would love a text commentary of a battle tick. I am not yet quite sure how this will look and be, but I think that it would be fun to see a battlereport based on the initiative and also maybe with noticable events like commandships in battle etc.
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Planetarion veteran
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15 Oct 2005, 11:24
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#2
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PA Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
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Re: Kargools extended suggestion thread
Morale as you describe it seems to encourage bashing.
Even if it were modified to be related to the relative planet scores, it seems possible to do nothing but make top planets benefit more and lower/ learning planets suffer.
Commandship.
This has been suggested a few times, in various guises.
The only way I can see that this would work is to have 4 special command ships, that give bonuses after succesful combat.
I.E. 10 combats where you stole over 50% of the roids that your pods let you able to steal give you +1% armour, and stopping over 50% of the roids from being lost that could be lost gives you +1% damage (yes, I linked armour and attack; damage and defence, as it should be).
That might work, but I don't know how other people would feel?
For combat reports, I know that most people would probably prefer a flash animated battle than a textual description. Which we might have whenever Jakey-coding gets back from Asia and starts developing things for us again :-)
You don't mean a textual report like the old battle calcs?
3000/3000 Spiders fire with 1 gun(s) at 3000 Beetles and cause 39000 damage. 2000 Beetles are frozen.
1000/3000 Beetles fire with 1 gun(s) at 3000 Spiders and cause 29000 damage. 3000 Spiders are frozen.
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r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
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15 Oct 2005, 11:52
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#3
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Hi there ...
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 481
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Re: Kargools extended suggestion thread
i think more like
(story beginning with lowest init shipclasses)
After 15982 beetle stunned 153520 incoming vsh fighter - drifting useless through space - they were no threat anymore for the defending frigates bla!? Unfortunatley the attacker sent 7500 arrowhead which eleminated half of the beetles shortly afterwards :/
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comment : i doubt you can get many variations into those stories and they are not really a good read because of the step by step structure.
You read it the first few times and that after that it is just annyoing text coming with each battle.
Similar to pictures of ships - giving a few good looks but dont adding a lot to the game.
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#Reunion
[Ascendancy] - While you were trying, we were sleeping
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15 Oct 2005, 12:14
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#4
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: Kargools extended suggestion thread
The battle commentary reminds me on the old football management simulations where you got text commentary .... "And the cathaar sends his pods to attack on the left wing, the pods shoot .... MAX CAP!!!"
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Ią! Ią! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
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15 Oct 2005, 12:17
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#5
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Hamster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Crewe, England
Posts: 3,606
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Re: Kargools extended suggestion thread
Kargool: I would perfer it if you split the thread up into 3. I know you say you dont want to spam the forum but threads like this simply dont work because the discussions get all mixed up, especially as discussions on a single suggestion can often go off into multiple discussions and become confusing enough without having 2 other ideas doing the same thing.
Also a more descriptive title is needed. So please make these changes asap (as it saves me doing it as im jut about to head out for a driving lesson so dont have time atm)
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Wakey
PD and Suggestions Moderator
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15 Oct 2005, 12:28
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#6
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deserves a medal
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,211
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Re: Kargools extended suggestion thread
Just to trow in some stuff:
You should also gain a moral boost by defending.
and it stabelizes back to normal over 48 hours..
Moral should be able to vary from +5 till -5 or something..
A negative moral should be penalized a bit
If you screw up (lose much, gain crap) to much in attacks or defences it should get lowered 2 levels
Good battles is a +1
Undecided battles (where noone really wins) is +0
If your planet is under attack losses are disregarded..
If someone has a max cap on your planet your planet gets fanatic and ur moral raises alot (The nazi way )
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To be honest I don't see why this idea should be implemented tho
I bet that everyone would just ignore it (moral)
But the battle report idea rox
I would love to see a small analysis of the battle..
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"I have with me two gods, Persuasion and Compulsion."
Last edited by Alessio; 15 Oct 2005 at 12:51.
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15 Oct 2005, 15:32
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#7
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Kargools extended suggestion thread
I miss that old feature on battle-calcs, but wouldn't bother with the rest Kargool. Your morale feature means that planets that suffer losses find it even harder to rebuild, whereas successful players will be even more successful (exponential growth, etc). Surely you can see why this is a bad thing?
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Finally free!
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16 Oct 2005, 10:47
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#8
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: Kargools extended suggestion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Suggestion 1:
With a successfull attack with no losses you rise a morale level. With a successfull defence the same. With a successfull defence with minor losses the u rise, with unsuccessfull defence you lose one level of morale. etc
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My problem with this (i think similar ideas have been mentioned before), is that if you are on the receiving end of a massive overwhelming attack you face the following:
1) Staying, loosing your roids, loosing a proportion (or all) of your fleet, and associated reduction in attack capability so its harder to regain those lose roids.
2) Fleeing, loosing your roids, saving your fleet and keeping your ability to regain roids more or less the same (better due to XP ).
Now, with a morale system, you are effectively encouraging people to keep their fleet home (as presumably fighting for your nation but loosing reduces morale but less than fleeing and watching the enemy pillage your planet from afar ) - this results in people loosing their roids, loosing their fleet, increasing the cost of replacing that fleet, compounded with the higher cost of those ships due to low morale, resulting in a magnified reduction in your ability to recover and regain those roids.
If you flee, it is more difficult (or at least to a lesser extent) to replace the losses you take whilst regaining your roids as your ships cost more. Granted, you might have had a successful attack, giving you some morale, but that would have to be offset by the amount of morale (and potentially some ships) that were at home as well - all losses which would be more difficult to replace.
My main fear is that it is the least active of the playing community - newbies, casual solo players etc - who will be receiving the triple whammy (roids, ships, morale) which effectively makes it even more difficult for such a player to recover.
Presumably, it would be the opposite at the top of the game where you have more success - which widens the gap between those that have and those who have not further. If this is what you are trying to achieve, then ok - i cant say that i am a fan at all. If you want to make the game more interesting, i dont htink this is the way to go about it; making it easier to recover losses is by far a better way of making this game more fun than magnifying your losses and throwing planets into an economic hole that they cant possibly get out of.
Kloopy is doing a Mugabe impersonation!
Quote:
Suggestion 2: Commandship: I would love to have something like this in fleets. If you lose your leaderships you will lose expirienced commanders and ur fleet will have less effect. (The leader ship gives everyone 2-3% more armor) If lost, u lose one morale level, and the armor bonus. This also opens up for a new construction. Military academy. When you lose your leadership. Military academy makes you gain new leaders. The more Academys u got, the faster you regain your command ship.
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The problem with suggestions like these is that they will either result in changes that are so drastic that the impact of loosing a single command ship can screw over an otherwise healthy planet, or so insignificant such that no-one really cares what happens to their Admirals. Striking the balance between usefullness and complexity with things like this is hard. Plus you as a coder should know about all the problems associated with assigning specific benefits of varying degree on ships - ie, you have four defenders, each sending 1000 Peacekeepers; you would need four entries of defending peacekeepers due to the potentially different ship statistics (whether that be 2% armour etc) and so on. I would have imagined that would lead to immense complexity for virtually bugger all gain. Plus how would you determine whether your command ship(s) were destroyed? if 25% of the Peacekeepers were destroyed, then there is a 25% chance that your Command Peacekeeper was also destroyed? or would it be reasonable to assume that such an important unit would be protected (to some extent) by the others?
etc
Quote:
Suggestion 3: Battlereport. I would love a text commentary of a battle tick. I am not yet quite sure how this will look and be, but I think that it would be fun to see a battlereport based on the initiative and also maybe with noticable events like commandships in battle etc.
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This idea i like - it has marvellous potential (as both a java/flash animation or just a written report) - though writing enough of them so they dont become repetitive would be painstaking...
The heroic sqadron of 117 Harpies valiently engaged the enemy fleet, displaying the courage and defiance that Dark Aurora is univerally renowned for. Their destruction at the hands of 120 million Sentiels merely demonstrates the heavy handed ruthlessness of our enemy and thus the purity and absolute justification of our cause! FIGHT ON!
etc
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#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
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"The Cake is a Lie."
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16 Oct 2005, 11:07
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#9
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Ex-Player
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 211
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Re: Kargools extended suggestion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
The heroic sqadron of 117 Harpies valiently engaged the enemy fleet, displaying the courage and defiance that Dark Aurora is univerally renowned for. Their destruction at the hands of 120 million Sentiels merely demonstrates the heavy handed ruthlessness of our enemy and thus the purity and absolute justification of our cause! FIGHT ON!
etc
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What I think would be fun if the 'winner' (so one person would have to be deemed a winner in the combat) could write it. It would be fun.
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16 Oct 2005, 11:19
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#10
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: Kargools extended suggestion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by god113
What I think would be fun if the 'winner' (so one person would have to be deemed a winner in the combat) could write it. It would be fun.
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Well, if you did that, then you;d need to have a whole list of pre-prepared combat reports so that if the player(s) couldnt be bothered writing it, or were offline at the time, everyone would still receive a report.
Also, there would only be a couple of seconds between combat starting and the battlereport being sent to everyone - recording the battle in such a short time would be a tall order! . And having it sent after a battle (x ticks) could be confusing; you could recieve two battlereports from two different battles happening at different times being made available at the same time - this would be especially confusing if both battles were at the same planet. heh.
Also, would you be able to see your losses/gains etc, or would you have to wait for the victor to type up the report first? - you could be hanging around all night unsure as to whether you doged a major bullet or got wtfpwned just waiting for the other person to type up a report - that would be incredibly frustrating (though amusing, i suppose ).
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#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
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"The Cake is a Lie."
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16 Oct 2005, 13:16
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#11
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Up The Hatters!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
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Re: Kargools extended suggestion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Morale as you describe it seems to encourage bashing.
Even if it were modified to be related to the relative planet scores, it seems possible to do nothing but make top planets benefit more and lower/ learning planets suffer.
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After looking at this again, I came up with the following solution. Morale is affected by bashing. If you attack a target lower than your own value it ofc becomes an overkill and your pilots and planet doesnt expect anything else but a victory, thus not increasing morale. (all planets 70% or smaller than your own value does not increase morale as it is seem as overkill)
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Planetarion veteran
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30 Oct 2005, 06:04
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5
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Re: Kargools extended suggestion thread
How about instead of command ships, each fleet is lead by an "admiral", which has a specialization in a specific area? (As in, for example: offense/defense/stealth/speed)
If you add "XP" to these, meaning, if they successfully (as per your 1st idea) carry out a mission of their specific role, that their effectiviness increases, it discourages changing specialities to suit your need at the moment.
Morale as you described it becomes an "easier for the victor, harder for the loser" situation, which is hardly ever a good thing. (For example, the salvage-for-the-defender mechanic of PA is an example of exactly the opposite )
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30 Oct 2005, 09:36
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#13
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Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
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Re: Kargools extended suggestion thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Well, if you did that, then you;d need to have a whole list of pre-prepared combat reports so that if the player(s) couldnt be bothered writing it, or were offline at the time, everyone would still receive a report.
Also, there would only be a couple of seconds between combat starting and the battlereport being sent to everyone - recording the battle in such a short time would be a tall order! . And having it sent after a battle (x ticks) could be confusing; you could recieve two battlereports from two different battles happening at different times being made available at the same time - this would be especially confusing if both battles were at the same planet. heh.
Also, would you be able to see your losses/gains etc, or would you have to wait for the victor to type up the report first? - you could be hanging around all night unsure as to whether you doged a major bullet or got wtfpwned just waiting for the other person to type up a report - that would be incredibly frustrating (though amusing, i suppose ).
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Technical solution:
Define three different text sections for each type of action. Types of action could be "collecting roids", "destroying ships" and "destroying structures". For each of the "actions" you have two or three different prepared text samples. For example for "collecting roids" it would be one for "none collected at all", "average number of roids collected" and "outrageous good capping of roids". Each of these can be configured under "preferences" of a player and get a default entry.
The text messages should have symbolic fields for the attacker, the attacked planet etc.. A sample text for the "collecting roids" action for level 3 (outrageous good capping of roids) would be like "${MYPLANET} completely pwns ${ATTACKEDPLANET} carrying all his roids away".
If it is done that way, people should be able to choose if they want to see:
- all additional combat messages
- only altered additional combat messages
- no additional combat messages
Downside is that it probably needs to be coded into an extra page as otherwise it clutters the preferences too much.
I bet that would create some interesting combat reports
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