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Unread 9 Oct 2005, 23:24   #1
Kloopy
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PD Readers - Attention Required

Because people never go looking for announcements, I'd like to point your attention towards a huge update about R15. Considering we told you that we wouldn't be implementing many changes for R15 I think you'll agree the team has done a spiffing job in improving the game for R15.

We present to you, the Round 15 signup and tick schedule and change log:

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=187751
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Unread 10 Oct 2005, 00:33   #2
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

There's quite a lot of little mods there, for all that we said there weren't many changes this round. It's generally due to Kloopy spending large amounts of time (I think he spent 10+ hours today alone) coding.
We're making sure all these changes work as they're meant to for Round 15 :-)
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Unread 10 Oct 2005, 08:50   #3
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

I was about to make a post regarding this, and how much work you (Kloopy) must have done. Congrats/Thanks.
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Unread 10 Oct 2005, 09:04   #4
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

I have to say I dont like the whole planets cant JPG themselves. It gives alliances whom can get many good and highly active scanners a massive advantage while penalising those in smaller less organised alliances.

Either the power of a jpg needs removed (ie prelaunches not shown) or that needs reverted back
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Unread 10 Oct 2005, 09:32   #5
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

I actually don't see a problem there. Since your galmates are able to jpg you if they have the techlevel to do it and 1 amp. Since the effect of distorters is nullified ingal and alliancewise. So if your alliance can't scan you (which is highly improbable, since there will always be someone with jpg and atleast 1 amp) your galmates can.

The only ones who could have a problem with this are allianceless players who don't use IRC or other means of communication. But then an ingame mail could still work.
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Unread 10 Oct 2005, 10:09   #6
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Also, this didn't happen for all players. It was a bug that seemed to work for some planets but not all.
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Unread 10 Oct 2005, 10:35   #7
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
- Can now not JGP yourself when having no returning fleet.
i think there is a little misunderstanding. You can still JGP yourself - you just need a returning fleet for it now (as usual?)

i was never aware myself that there was a bug and you could do it without returning fleet ...
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Unread 10 Oct 2005, 11:10   #8
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupp
i think there is a little misunderstanding. You can still JGP yourself - you just need a returning fleet for it now (as usual?)

i was never aware myself that there was a bug and you could do it without returning fleet ...
Ah yeah, I shouldnt read things in a hurry when ive only just got up
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Unread 10 Oct 2005, 12:17   #9
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

An impressive list, good work!
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Unread 11 Oct 2005, 00:06   #10
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

I didn't think i'd bother reading it at first, most of the things had been talked about before..

Except it became endless, and I was happy then to read through it all Great job.
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Unread 11 Oct 2005, 00:25   #11
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupp
i think there is a little misunderstanding. You can still JGP yourself - you just need a returning fleet for it now (as usual?)

i was never aware myself that there was a bug and you could do it without returning fleet ...

I thought this too, apparently it worked for some and not others. i didnt read this bit about gal mates able to scan you with 1 amp, surely another defeat for dist w****s
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Unread 11 Oct 2005, 12:23   #12
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

- Scans now ALWAYS get through to your gal mates and alliance mates regardless of the number of wave distorters they have. <- No no no no no no. This has disaster written all over it
- The clock at the bottom of the menu now updates every second. <- Please move the clock somewhere at the top of the page?
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Unread 11 Oct 2005, 15:13   #13
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
- Scans now ALWAYS get through to your gal mates and alliance mates regardless of the number of wave distorters they have. <- No no no no no no. This has disaster written all over it
No it doesn't.
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Unread 11 Oct 2005, 15:15   #14
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
- Scans now ALWAYS get through to your gal mates and alliance mates regardless of the number of wave distorters they have. <- No no no no no no. This has disaster written all over it
Just how bad is this, though?

Alliance mates should be loyal. Galmates could be a bigger issue, but really, the only major advantages of dist whores are people being inable to attack as they don't have full access to jgps, and being inable to do fleet analysis.

Since the galmates won't be able to do an FA anyway, and jgps will be useless (gal status...), it's not quite as bad as it sounds.

IMO
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Unread 11 Oct 2005, 15:21   #15
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Just how bad is this, though?

Alliance mates should be loyal. Galmates could be a bigger issue, but really, the only major advantages of dist whores are people being inable to attack as they don't have full access to jgps, and being inable to do fleet analysis.

Since the galmates won't be able to do an FA anyway, and jgps will be useless (gal status...), it's not quite as bad as it sounds.

IMO
Exactly. The only real problem is unit scans and surface scans (to see exactly what ships he has in total, and how easy it is to scan / covert op him)
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Unread 12 Oct 2005, 20:20   #16
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Thats a huge problem.
1. Its not realistic gamewise.
2. Spies will pop up everywhere in the galaxy.
3. Makes distorters almost useless. (and going distorter, takes alot of effort)
4. You take away some of the challenges in the game. Having someone online to scan a galmate etc (or make a system to report your ships) "what ships does planet #7 have, what defence does he need?"

Is it possible to make it like this:
Ally and/or galmates can JGP scan.. and nothing more ?

Every major ally is represented in every topp 30 galaxy. Imagine the pressure on one of the players from his ally to scan a galmate. No one can trust no one in the galaxy, and the role of a galaxy will be further weekend...
I dont like this idea at all. I dont see why they should be able to jgp either.. this is one big side of the game your removing (not having all scans/info)

OH and one more thing.

Scanners will be useless. Because now the galmember himself does the scan for his ally.
I dont like it a bit :/

Please, dont make it so the galmates can unit eachother with 1 amp.

best regards

Last edited by Cmd_Carl; 12 Oct 2005 at 20:45.
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Unread 12 Oct 2005, 20:46   #17
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

i fully agree with Gate that the big advantage of distorters is not to get FAed on your attack fleet and that attacker cant JGP you.

If you have a spy in gal they will get your galaxy status anyway - and even worse - tell when you are on/offline or if your fleets are out.

I think unit scans on most distorter guys this round were available most of the time somehow because nearly every alliance has at least 1 top scanner with more amps available and a unitscan is even after a day still useful and does not outdate that quickly because you cant switch your fleet set up in a flash.

i wouldnt mind if alliance AND galaxy could scan my planet - the option with switching distorters on/off for certain galaxy members would be definatly better but harder to code as well i guess and i am not sure if it is useful.

For example you have 3 galaxy members A,B & C () and have A on your 'bad' list and B & C on your 'good' list. Now player A will just ask player B or C to get a scan on you and if they are more trustful to player A they will certainly do it. The only way to prevent that would be to set ALL galaxy members on the 'bad' list which makes the feature useless

And why is it not realistic game-wise Carl ? Is it realistic that space ships travel from galaxy to galaxy and transfer asteroids to some sort of worm hole to your own planet to get mined? If PA was about realism we should shut it down at once and forget about all kind of science-fiction elements in it.
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Unread 12 Oct 2005, 21:22   #18
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

who actually cares about getting unit-scanned?
its not getting fa-scanned which is important! and nobody else besides your target is able to do so.
fake attacks ahoi!!!!

and being able to scan your galmates makes it easier to org some ingaldef if that lazy bas... isnt online :-)

besides that u still need a scanner to get news and jgp scans a fast as possible

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Unread 13 Oct 2005, 09:33   #19
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

But you can still work out numbers with a unit scan. It's being totally hidden which is the advantage for distorter whores, since no-one even knows how their fleet is structured.
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Unread 13 Oct 2005, 12:27   #20
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
- The clock at the bottom of the menu now updates every second. <- Please move the clock somewhere at the top of the page?
Why not use some javascript to reload the page after it ticks
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Unread 13 Oct 2005, 16:55   #21
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
But you can still work out numbers with a unit scan. It's being totally hidden which is the advantage for distorter whores, since no-one even knows how their fleet is structured.

EXCACTLY!!!

You basicaly remove a big stratergy from the game!
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Unread 13 Oct 2005, 17:14   #22
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

it basically means you could have more distorters than anyone else has amps, so you would think 'noone will be able to tell what fleets i send'

but galmates with 1 amp can scan you?

its a huge loss to ziks, unit scans and news scans can tell you what they've sent.
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Unread 13 Oct 2005, 22:09   #23
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

I dont see why galmembers and such should be able to JGP you in the first place..

Why make the game easier?

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Unread 13 Oct 2005, 22:13   #24
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
it basically means you could have more distorters than anyone else has amps, so you would think 'noone will be able to tell what fleets i send'

but galmates with 1 amp can scan you?

its a huge loss to ziks, unit scans and news scans can tell you what they've sent.
oh no zik being weaker




Note: for all those who didn't realise, this post contains sarcasm
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Unread 13 Oct 2005, 22:19   #25
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmd_Carl
EXCACTLY!!!

You basicaly remove a big stratergy from the game!
no ? i guess if you fake your BS with your DE you wont send in ALL of your DE .... so even if he gets a unit scan his best guess could be that it is BS or faked BS fleet containing DE ...

i dont really get your point here - the whole fake fleet / not being able to get JGPed is still intact


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Unread 13 Oct 2005, 22:19   #26
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmd_Carl
I dont see why galmembers and such should be able to JGP you in the first place..

Why make the game easier?

Appoco?
I find it amusing that your post seems to imply that allowing your galaxy mates to JGP you is an advantage [which it is], compared to most of these posts which seem to complain it's a disadvantage.
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Unread 13 Oct 2005, 22:20   #27
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupp
no ? i guess if you fake your BS with your DE you wont send in ALL of your DE .... so even if he gets a unit scan his best guess could be that it is BS or faked BS fleet containing DE ...

i dont really get your point here - the whole fake fleet / not being able to get JGPed is still intact


Indeed. In fact, if you're faking, that ASSUMES you can be UNIT scanned. No use trying to fake De for Bs when they don't know which it is and cover both


Edit: fixed. Specified type of scan
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Last edited by Appocomaster; 13 Oct 2005 at 22:35.
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Unread 13 Oct 2005, 22:29   #28
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Indeed. In fact, if you're faking, that ASSUMES you can be scanned. No use trying to fake De for Bs when they don't know which it is and cover both
no? (again)

faking makes only sense if you have more distorters than your target to avoid being FA (Fleet Analysis) scanned e.g. sending 999 lynx and 1 dragon instead of 500 dragon and 500 leviathan to create the opinion it is Battleships incomings while cruising through the anti BS defence with your destroyers

defence ships are rare and the MO (Military Officer) handling the defence call will most likely decide for the option to try to cover the anti BS call instead of both DE & BS....

i am not really sure if that was needed to be explained here but well i saw that appoco needed a little update at least
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Unread 13 Oct 2005, 22:35   #29
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupp
no? (again)
....
i am not really sure if that was needed to be explained here but well i saw that appoco needed a little update at least
I updated the post
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Unread 26 Oct 2005, 05:58   #30
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Excuse me if i need a clear explanation to any other uses for the ability of your gal mates being able to scan you EXCEPT for the fact that they can SPY on you?

My say is allow alliance to scan but for the love of christ not your galmates!!
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Unread 26 Oct 2005, 09:15   #31
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

Well, the most common ones are a) probing you for prelaunching incoming and b) if you get incoming and aren't online, they can see what ships you have to work out what defence you need / can send when you get online.
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Unread 27 Oct 2005, 02:15   #32
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Re: PD Readers - Attention Required

So, Rick James, the answer is yes - the whole point is to allow your galaxymates to spy on you.

However, as Appoco pointed out, to spy in a good way that benefits you, and should encourage more in-gal co-operation.

I mentioned in this post why its not really so bad...
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