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Unread 9 Sep 2005, 14:23   #201
Kjeldoran
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legator
Our round isnt ruined, its more reunioned (hahaha!)

Tho zhil had a point, many alliances broke cause they didnt have the stability, gladly we 2 not
Atleast YOU're laughing with your own jokes
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Unread 9 Sep 2005, 14:39   #202
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Yes it would have benefit ND. However, the evidence now suggests they made the wrong move. They are now over 50m behind ND, where would they have been had they accepted our first offer of a nap?

As for an alliances round being ruined - lol.
I suspect the reason they're that far behind ND is because of ND's recent recruitment drive (and of course Reunion's recent drop in members). Their average score is very close to ND's and their average roids is slightly higher - so if they match your recent recruitment they'd be not too far behind your score and with more roids generating more income to allow them to close the gap further.

What "the evidence now suggests" depends entirely on what you see as their objectives and how you see the last few weeks of the round panning out - plus of course what you think would have happened if they'd acted differently. We can argue till we're blue in the face over what might have happened if things had been differently - and never reach agreement - however I don't write off their chances of finishing #2 as you seem to be doing.

From my perspective ND's biggest mistake this round wasn't so much that there was some specific course of action you should have taken but didn't (e.g. hitting 1up early on). It's more than you chose to do nothing and hence became a marginal political figure. It certainly wasn't smart to twice ask 1up to join you in attacking LCH - and then on both occasions back out later the same day and not bother even tellung us you'd changed your mind. That cut a lot of your bridges and was undoubtedly part of the reason why reunion could never consider cancelling their nap with 1up to hit us - knowing that 1up would immediately smack them and ND might call of their attack on us as soon we fleet-caught a member or our intention to attack became known (as was the case with your 2 planned hits on LCH).
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Unread 9 Sep 2005, 14:57   #203
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid
I suspect the reason they're that far behind ND is because of ND's recent recruitment drive (and of course Reunion's recent drop in members). Their average score is very close to ND's and their average roids is slightly higher - so if they match your recent recruitment they'd be not too far behind your score and with more roids generating more income to allow them to close the gap further.

What "the evidence now suggests" depends entirely on what you see as their objectives and how you see the last few weeks of the round panning out - plus of course what you think would have happened if they'd acted differently. We can argue till we're blue in the face over what might have happened if things had been differently - and never reach agreement - however I don't write off their chances of finishing #2 as you seem to be doing.

From my perspective ND's biggest mistake this round wasn't so much that there was some specific course of action you should have taken but didn't (e.g. hitting 1up early on). It's more than you chose to do nothing and hence became a marginal political figure. It certainly wasn't smart to twice ask 1up to join you in attacking LCH - and then on both occasions back out later the same day and not bother even tellung us you'd changed your mind. That cut a lot of your bridges and was undoubtedly part of the reason why reunion could never consider cancelling their nap with 1up to hit us - knowing that 1up would immediately smack them and ND might call of their attack on us as soon we fleet-caught a member or our intention to attack became known (as was the case with your 2 planned hits on LCH).

Eh, if they are hit both by 1up and Reunion (as they are now and have been for some nights) then the outcome is obvious.

But if 1up stepped back a while (stopped the bashing as it has become now) and let ND and Reunion fight it out by themselves once again, then we would have clean and honest fight.for runner up.
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Unread 9 Sep 2005, 15:03   #204
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX
Eh, if they are hit both by 1up and Reunion (as they are now and have been for some nights) then the outcome is obvious.

But if 1up stepped back a while (stopped the bashing as it has become now) and let ND and Reunion fight it out by themselves once again, then we would have clean and honest fight.for runner up.
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Unread 9 Sep 2005, 15:03   #205
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX
Eh, if they are hit both by 1up and Reunion (as they are now and have been for some nights) then the outcome is obvious.

But if 1up stepped back a while (stopped the bashing as it has become now) and let ND and Reunion fight it out by themselves once again, then we would have clean and honest fight.for runner up.

Let me sum up the round for you if 1up would happen to do so : *ZZzzzzZZzzZZzzZzzzZzz...*
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Unread 9 Sep 2005, 15:13   #206
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Re: Stagnation

Reunion should make it #2, no doubt.

also its deserved, imo.
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Unread 9 Sep 2005, 15:30   #207
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Re: Stagnation

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Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
Atleast YOU're laughing with your own jokes
you cant imagine how it is to share all the alliance channels with him :-( especially those more private ones where he comes up with the REAL funny stories

sometimes a bit frustrating for him - but i like it and him \o/

was that too offtopic now ? if so sorry
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Unread 9 Sep 2005, 15:49   #208
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid
or our intention to attack became known (as was the case with your 2 planned hits on LCH).
With only 3 alliances left, teh situation could not have been recreated. The second time we planned attacks on LCH, Reunion actually hit us more than LCH and had suddenly recruited up the ranks, which would have left 1up/Reunion vs. ND vs. LCH.

I have no regrets whatsoever for actually reacting to the political environment at that moment rather than being driven by blind desire for revenge and giving the round to 1up far earlier.
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Unread 9 Sep 2005, 19:45   #209
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Re: Stagnation

The thing Reunion don't get is that they took on a member who was pretty derogatory about ND's abilities, who thought we would roll over and ultimately win Reunion the round for them by doing so. I think ND members have got every right to be pleased about what how they set about it, simply because they proved that bunch wrong. The biggest irony of all is the anti 1up players who joined reunion, whos only effect in reality was helping 1up to win the round.

Only one alliance hasn't underestimated ND - 1up. And that's why they're ahead of us. Admittedly reunion have the advantage of 1up trying to take us out, but it's not as if we aren't used to uphill struggles. We've had it before this round when it was unclear we'd actually get off the mark and when our coords list was released by someone malicious. If 1up want to try and get Reunion 2nd for being generous enough to NAP them, that's their perrogative - hostile alliances can do what they want. For us, it will be just another challenge to contend with.

The most important thing for us is that we have improved performance drastically, and now have a modicum of independence in the diplomatic field. We're no longer pinned in the 1up camp, and finally have broken out of the paradigm that which though it initially benefitted us, has been greatly to our detriment since the start of round 13 where our only strategy available seemed to be 'NAP 1up' because of the impression of other alliances in the universe towards us. We are now in a position to rule nothing out, from having no agreements to blocking if we wish, as for us blocking is not a dirty word, we accept them as part of the game.

My view is that this round we missed out on a window of opportunity that we knew that was there, but were unable to grab it due to certain real life issues - I don't think we chose to do nothing, it's just that when the time came we were simply unable to take that option as we were undermanned at a vital time in the round. We've been unfortunate with the total collapse of all but 3 of the larger alliances in the game. But 1up are the best alliance. There is nothing we can do about it except continue to plod on and I accept our position to the letter.
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Unread 9 Sep 2005, 19:49   #210
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
If 1up want to try and get Reunion 2nd for being generous enough to NAP them, that's their perrogative - hostile alliances can do what they want.
Do ND seriously think that's why 1up is hitting them?
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Unread 9 Sep 2005, 19:55   #211
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Re: Stagnation

Not at all. But they can give a big helping hand. The main aim of that comment was not to appear to whine about 1up hitting ND and helping reunion out to 2nd. I don't think it was well worded, i very much think they'd like the roids. The point i am trying to make is that whether we like it or not, we have to accept what is happening.
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Unread 10 Sep 2005, 19:57   #212
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Re: Stagnation

it amuses me that ND wants or wanted to hit reunion because they recruited alot of members, while ND is doing EXACTLY the same thing.

I must be missing some points here... kinda nice to see it isn't working at all for ND either tho and it's not getting them any friends either. they wanted to team up with lch against reunion when reunion recruited lots... now 1up is hitting ND in return and they complain

ohwell:/
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Unread 10 Sep 2005, 20:39   #213
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
it amuses me that ND wants or wanted to hit reunion because they recruited alot of members, while ND is doing EXACTLY the same thing.
You are missing a point here. ND wanted to hit Reunion because they threatened their rank. Incidentally, ND's hitting Reunion seemed to be meant to motivate them to hit 1up*. However, this was really stupid. Given the alternative between fighting ND or fighting 1up, anyone smart is going to choose to fight ND, especially when ND is hitting them.

Now, ND's hitting Reunion won them #2 in r14 (bar some unexpected event), because it led to Reunion not hitting 1up, and thus to dS leaving.

As for it being nice to see ND getting it stuck to them, that's being a bad winner.

* A bit like LCH hitting ND to motivate them to hit 1up in r12.
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Unread 10 Sep 2005, 22:50   #214
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Re: Stagnation

hmm, what happened to Reunion hitting us and we simply decided to hit them back?
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Unread 10 Sep 2005, 23:03   #215
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Re: Stagnation

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Originally Posted by Scorpio
hmm, what happened to Reunion hitting us and we simply decided to hit them back?
i can only repeat again : since ND started hitting 1up or 1up hitting ND whatever reunion has not attacked ND directly - we may start again because of ur attempts to hold us back to repeat on those daily incomings from ur alliance that decided to ignore 1up incomings it seems and going back to where u had success before.

good luck
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Unread 10 Sep 2005, 23:49   #216
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
it amuses me that ND wants or wanted to hit reunion because they recruited alot of members, while ND is doing EXACTLY the same thing.

I must be missing some points here... kinda nice to see it isn't working at all for ND either tho and it's not getting them any friends either. they wanted to team up with lch against reunion when reunion recruited lots... now 1up is hitting ND in return and they complain

ohwell:/
The only thing that recruitment had to do with it was that you were threatening our rank. Nobody has claimed 'oh reunion are evil they recruited' as that would be stupid.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 03:55   #217
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
it amuses me that ND wants or wanted to hit reunion because they recruited alot of members, while ND is doing EXACTLY the same thing.

I must be missing some points here... kinda nice to see it isn't working at all for ND either tho and it's not getting them any friends either. they wanted to team up with lch against reunion when reunion recruited lots... now 1up is hitting ND in return and they complain

ohwell:/
Not complaining, I said we accept it as a fact of planetarion. For example, If we had the chance I would gladly outnumber 1up by a good number to one to achieve an objective if I felt it was necessary. We are not anti-blocking, so being outnumbered doesn't phase us in the slightest. We cannot achieve #1. So we shall attempt to achieve #2, or the highest rank we can obtain. We aren't doing it on the basis of who we think 'deserves to win', we're in it purely for own achievements, essentially we play the game and get along with things.

If you want to have blocking as a dirty word from the word go, we will strongly put across our disagreement and inform you that it's a fact of life in planetarion.

On top of that, I simply point out that it was due to a certain individual of a group that was pretty derogatory to ND that gave us great pleasure. People are free to recruit if they wish. We have no problem with that. Reunion played to try and win the round in the hope we'd do them a favour early on by panicking and them using us to roid 1up by proxy. I see nothing wrong in stating an opinion on what effect that recruitment achieved for other alliances. On top of that until recently our member count was lower than 1up and Reunion. To be honest all that reunion recruitment did show is that we need much tighter application of the rules, and a reduction in the size of alliances, not to mention a shortening of round length.

When we "aren't winning any friends" - we'd rather be in several alliances thoughts and in 1up's bad books, than be in 1ups thoughts and every other alliances bad books for being so, simply because it means we aren't shackled to one mast throughout the round. We treat all other alliances the same, if any alliances think they dignify any special kind of hate or respect except based on what they've done on a current round, they're sadly very much mistaken. We bear no real grudges, we are open to listen to offers from anyone at anytime. Obviously 1up's attitude to ND in future is down to 1up - if they are opposed to our firm belief in being flexible when we choose, we will adjust as ever.

Our hit on Reunion the second time round was simple. We had missed our window of opportunity for 1up due to reasons explained above and there was an alliance in Reunion with a great apparent desire to hit us, or at the very least feed off any gains we made on 1up. We needed to be able to fight a war while being crippled, and reunion were the only viable choice as we weren't going to take 1up on undermanned and understaffed. Our reasons were purely practical.

Contrary to popular belief we are willing to walk a tightrope without a safety net, we know the risks and aren't scared of people poking us while we're walking across. Worst comes to the worst all we do is get back up again. Some might call us reckless, but quite frankly I like the new cut of our jib, even if it is slightly cavalier.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 08:00   #218
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Not complaining, I said we accept it as a fact of planetarion. For example, If we had the chance I would gladly outnumber 1up by a good number to one to achieve an objective if I felt it was necessary. We are not anti-blocking, so being outnumbered doesn't phase us in the slightest. We cannot achieve #1. So we shall attempt to achieve #2, or the highest rank we can obtain. We aren't doing it on the basis of who we think 'deserves to win', we're in it purely for own achievements, essentially we play the game and get along with things.

If you want to have blocking as a dirty word from the word go, we will strongly put across our disagreement and inform you that it's a fact of life in planetarion.

On top of that, I simply point out that it was due to a certain individual of a group that was pretty derogatory to ND that gave us great pleasure. People are free to recruit if they wish. We have no problem with that. Reunion played to try and win the round in the hope we'd do them a favour early on by panicking and them using us to roid 1up by proxy. I see nothing wrong in stating an opinion on what effect that recruitment achieved for other alliances. On top of that until recently our member count was lower than 1up and Reunion. To be honest all that reunion recruitment did show is that we need much tighter application of the rules, and a reduction in the size of alliances, not to mention a shortening of round length.

When we "aren't winning any friends" - we'd rather be in several alliances thoughts and in 1up's bad books, than be in 1ups thoughts and every other alliances bad books for being so, simply because it means we aren't shackled to one mast throughout the round. We treat all other alliances the same, if any alliances think they dignify any special kind of hate or respect except based on what they've done on a current round, they're sadly very much mistaken. We bear no real grudges, we are open to listen to offers from anyone at anytime. Obviously 1up's attitude to ND in future is down to 1up - if they are opposed to our firm belief in being flexible when we choose, we will adjust as ever.

Our hit on Reunion the second time round was simple. We had missed our window of opportunity for 1up due to reasons explained above and there was an alliance in Reunion with a great apparent desire to hit us, or at the very least feed off any gains we made on 1up. We needed to be able to fight a war while being crippled, and reunion were the only viable choice as we weren't going to take 1up on undermanned and understaffed. Our reasons were purely practical.

Contrary to popular belief we are willing to walk a tightrope without a safety net, we know the risks and aren't scared of people poking us while we're walking across. Worst comes to the worst all we do is get back up again. Some might call us reckless, but quite frankly I like the new cut of our jib, even if it is slightly cavalier.
Blocking, of itself, isn't necessrily a bad thing - yet ultimately that's what denied ND any real shot at winning this round. As in the previous rounds, LCH attempted to create a static block to hit 1up early in the round (they were napped to Insomnia solidly from early on until LCH finally disintegrated). The problem with ND's flexible approach is that most other alliances aren't interested in flexible politics - which ends up restricting the range of options available to you.

1up's ability to be flexible is greatly restricted by the fact that every round we can guarantee LCH will create a block to atatck us within a week or two of protection ending (This is the 4th round in a row LCH has attacked 1up together with other alliances before 1up has been involved in any attack cooperations with anyone else). And once that block is created there's never been any sign that LCH will break it. We restricted out own "blocking" this round to 1 small (at the time) alliance - reunion. When reunion suddenly became a large alliance, 1up was in a position where breaking the nap with reunion was tantamount to masochism - as ND and LCH were clearly in bed togetehr so we'd have ended up taking on more than double our score in enemies without any support. Ultimately, the fact there were only 4 competetive alliances left at that stage meant any war would in effect be either a 2v2 or a 3v1 - there was no way out of that.

As far as being in 1up's "bad books" is concerned, I can understand totally why ND are entirely happy to have gone the entire round withour ever even being napped to us. My criticism hasn't been over the fact that you haven't worked with us - rather over the fact that you twice asked to work with us then changed your minds within hours and DIDN'T EVEN TELL US. Not negotiating with an alliance can often be the most sensible move. Negotiating in bad faith - or without HC approval - is rarely a smart thing to do. Walking a tightrope with no safety net sometimes has to be done - but deliberately sabotaging your own safety net (which in this instance was the possibility of cooperating with 1up later if needed by you) isn't clever.

As with ND, 1up tries to start each round without predetermined enemies - and choose who we attack based on the current round's political situation and alliance ranks rather than based on grudges from the previous round.

I still believe that ND made some serious political blunders this round. But if you believe you played it right and just were unlucky then obviously that's where we have to agree to disagree. I don't see ND as "cavalier" - rather I saw you this round as cautious, hesitant and conservative. Even if i went purely by the comments made by ND HC on your motives for various decisions, they all appeared to be reactive rather than proactive - "Alliance X did this so we had to do that". To me a "cavalier" alliance would be one whose policy was decided along the lines of "Let's smack alliance X before they can do Y" followed by you attempting to do precisely that. How you can imagine ND could be seen as "cavalier" genuinely baffles me.

Similarly I can't see how ND could be thought of as "reckless". As with "cavalier", the posts of yourself and Fish make it clear how you wished to avoid taking risks - which is the exact opposite of "reckless".
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 09:05   #219
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid
(This is the 4th round in a row LCH has attacked 1up together with other alliances before 1up has been involved in any attack cooperations with anyone else).
I do not agree with this claim. Sure I agree you were pretty much certain that LCH would block against you, but I'm also pretty much certain that you've had your talks and pre-agreements to counter those you expect from LCH aswell.

Ofcourse this is hard to prove from either sides. At what point is a block formed or is a deal/nap being made? At the moment the command agrees? At the moment the first action has been taken (joint attacks)?

Don't make us believe, Sid, that you had absolutely no talks or whatsoever untill LCH hitted you, cause I won't believe that. As you said yourself, you knew LCH would be coming ... and being a good command you anticipate on that and I think that's what you've done in most of those rounds.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 09:35   #220
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
I do not agree with this claim. Sure I agree you were pretty much certain that LCH would block against you, but I'm also pretty much certain that you've had your talks and pre-agreements to counter those you expect from LCH aswell.

Ofcourse this is hard to prove from either sides. At what point is a block formed or is a deal/nap being made? At the moment the command agrees? At the moment the first action has been taken (joint attacks)?

Don't make us believe, Sid, that you had absolutely no talks or whatsoever untill LCH hitted you, cause I won't believe that. As you said yourself, you knew LCH would be coming ... and being a good command you anticipate on that and I think that's what you've done in most of those rounds.
I never stated that in all rounds we had no talks at all before being hit etc - for example last round we started the round with a bunch of naps. What i stated was that in all rounds LCH took part in cooperative attacks vs 1up before 1up had cooperation on attacks with anyone else. That is 100% true. This round we had no naps, pre-agreements or whatever at all prior to be hitting hit by LCH+insomnia+hydra. We were offered a bunch of naps pre-round - but rejected all.

For the other rounds, R11 1up never did cooperative attacks with any other alliance, R12/R13 we didn't become involved in any cooperative attacks until after we'd been attacked by multiple alliances (including LCH) coordinating vs us - but yes we did have naps.

Your post argues against something which i DIDN'T claim. My claim was NOT that LCH always make naps before 1up - it was that LCH always attack 1up alongside other alliances, and always do it before 1up has attacked ANYONE in coordination with other allies. In fact, every round we've been doing only galaxy raids only until LCH + their allies of choice for that round decide to specifically attack 1up (with the slight exception of R11 where Fang were the 1st alliance to specifically target us if i remember correctly - with LCH/Vision joining in a bit later).

And NO - being a "good command" doesn't mean that you have to have agreements in place before ticks start. You can be a "good command" without any deals before ticks at all - as 1up proved in R11 and (touch wood) this round.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 09:40   #221
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Re: Stagnation

One quick thing I should add to clarify. I'm not claiming (nor do i believe) that LCH hit us each round purely out of spite or out of a grudge - I believe they did so because they believed it was the correct decision for them to make. I don't happen to agree that it was their best option - but that's not the issue I was discussing here.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:13   #222
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid
I never stated that in all rounds we had no talks at all before being hit etc - for example last round we started the round with a bunch of naps. What i stated was that in all rounds LCH took part in cooperative attacks vs 1up before 1up had cooperation on attacks with anyone else. That is 100% true. This round we had no naps, pre-agreements or whatever at all prior to be hitting hit by LCH+insomnia+hydra. We were offered a bunch of naps pre-round - but rejected all.

For the other rounds, R11 1up never did cooperative attacks with any other alliance, R12/R13 we didn't become involved in any cooperative attacks until after we'd been attacked by multiple alliances (including LCH) coordinating vs us - but yes we did have naps.

Your post argues against something which i DIDN'T claim. My claim was NOT that LCH always make naps before 1up - it was that LCH always attack 1up alongside other alliances, and always do it before 1up has attacked ANYONE in coordination with other allies. In fact, every round we've been doing only galaxy raids only until LCH + their allies of choice for that round decide to specifically attack 1up (with the slight exception of R11 where Fang were the 1st alliance to specifically target us if i remember correctly - with LCH/Vision joining in a bit later).

And NO - being a "good command" doesn't mean that you have to have agreements in place before ticks start. You can be a "good command" without any deals before ticks at all - as 1up proved in R11 and (touch wood) this round.
I didn't say good command makes pre-round agreements, a good command is able to anticipate on future events they think will occur. If you decide not to nap, knowing a block will attack you ... then you anticipated aswell.

See, you aswell are able to missread things that have been said. Nway, my point was that you made it sound that 1up seems to never make agreements before someone else did.
Now that you explained that you did have naps but didn't do cooperated attacks untill another alliance/block aims for you, I guess I could say "fair enough".

I'm just saying that 1up amongst all other alliances talk to others before round. Some make naps, some form blocks, others decide to wait and see. And I guess, when reading the post I replied on, I assumed you meant 1up was an exception here.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:28   #223
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Re: Stagnation

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Originally Posted by Banned
You are missing a point here. ND wanted to hit Reunion because they threatened their rank. Incidentally, ND's hitting Reunion seemed to be meant to motivate them to hit 1up*. However, this was really stupid. Given the alternative between fighting ND or fighting 1up, anyone smart is going to choose to fight ND, especially when ND is hitting them.

Now, ND's hitting Reunion won them #2 in r14 (bar some unexpected event), because it led to Reunion not hitting 1up, and thus to dS leaving.
I know I made mistakes this round, and I wish the situation was as you painted it above (that way, we might have been able to hit 1up earlier), but Reunion initiated hostilities, our reaction was to hit them back (how many top alliances have ever been attacked by a larger alliance, ignored the consistant incomings, and then opened up another front with another larger alliance instead? Surely this would be perceived as a weakness by everybody without extenuating circumstances), and they refused to end the hostilities.

They were still clearly ahead of us when we offered them a political agreement, but instead they chose to play for rank 2 or 3, when they stopped targetting us properly, we stopped targetting them properly, albeit we did hit a few particularly hostile/annoying planets (Hi Carl! ).

A good point was made earlier though; I was definitely reluctant to 'pull the trigger' at parts of the round because of the temperament of the fight for #1. LCH and 1up seemed to be trading roids; one night one side would look to be tearing away, a couple of nights later it would be the other. And secondly, for much of the round, I was the only BC who was around to run consistant attacks (I tried to train up people to help me out, but even with their own efforts, it still left a large time slot where I'd have to run everything), and I was more worried about my own ability to give ND victory, and my own activity.

I learnt a lot this round, and I think that I personally might have been a bit too conservative as this was ND's best shot ever at winning a round, and I didn't want to be personally responsible for breaking that chance.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 18:50   #224
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Re: Stagnation

Your loved anyways, Gate.
But your legs belong to me.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 21:05   #225
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
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Your loved anyways, Gate.
But your legs belong to me.
it's not about if we like someone or not at all. Gate is a nice person no question - still that has nothing to do with ND it seems .

His legs may belong to you Zhukov but Leg belongs to me!

\o/
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 05:55   #226
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Re: Stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupp
His legs may belong to you Zhukov but Leg belongs to me!

\o/

*cough* *cough*


Yea, Gate is a nice person but that definately isnt that important for the choice of war and peace.
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Unread 26 Sep 2005, 23:04   #227
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Re: Stagnation

[23:00] <@Alki> what u reckon will happen if I make 4 shit posts on AD in one day?
[23:00] <@Alki> reckon Lok will be irritated enough to give me a random ban?
[23:01] <@Alki> think i gonna randomly post that on ad
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Can we please have a moment of silence...........

Last edited by lokken; 27 Sep 2005 at 00:59.
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