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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 11:16   #1
Mistwraith
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Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

After a rant wth a drunk member who basically accused me of being crap cos i didnt have a planet in the top 1000 for many rounds, (lets see i finished early 300's this round) which i didnt react to as said member was 3 sheets to the wind and basically looking for an arguement, it made me wonder....

What does make a good hc ?

Dedication, activity, leadership skills are the ones that come to mind immediately, but are they the only things ?

Do u have to be a good tacticion ?

Do u have to have excellent game skills ?
Do u have to have good technical abilities ?
Do u have to be a *known* entity ?
Is it something we learn or do the natural good leaders just rise to the top ?

and i guess more to the point, what makes for a bad one ?

How do you know u are good ?
What makes you do the job ?
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 11:55   #2
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Inspiring, manipulating members to hang on you're every whim. I dont personally know you but from what i do see/hear about you, you're dedication is second to none. In my opinion is far more impressive than any top 100 planet.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 12:01   #3
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

I dont think I should answer since I am a HC myself. but I do anyways.

You need to have a basic knowing of everything , be very good in some arreas.

Your ability to lead your troops, motivate them and make them give everything they can without forcing anyone.

That would I say is the most needed part. Also the hardest part.

Your game skills are ofcourse a plus, but planetarion are usually not won by how you play your planet.
Its won on how you play your politics ( Usually )
Tech abilities are ofcourse also a plus, but if you have a good and loyal core. There is allways someone who is a little techy The tech part sorts out.

Being known to everyone dosn't need to be a + in the book. Everyone remembers you, what you have done. what errors you have made....

Yes you can learn to hc. But only if you want to.
But I belive someone are just meant to be hc.

Bad HC... you dont listen to your members. do everything for your own sake.

How do you know u are good :

If you belive you are so good that your the best hc around. You should probably pack your stuff and retire.
Your ability to change around, make the alliance work for its cause and your talking skills can be pretty damn important when it comes to being good.
But your members decide if you are doing a good work our not. If they dont think you are doing a good job, you will know for sure.

What makes you do the job:

My Alliance makes me do my job, I feel for it, I care about it. And I play for it.

Hope this short info was at any help
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 16:34   #4
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

I dont want to take too much part in this discussion, but i want to make a short comment about how serious a HC should play.

In my experience, being a non-hardcore HC often promotes inactivity from mid-round and onwards. For instance, if a HC's go for scans, who will need him/her after mid-round, when 30-40% of memberbase have full scans research and decent ampcount anyways.

And, as we all know, if the HC goes inactive, the alliance tends to suffer from it. That's why I would never accept a non-hardcore officer/hc in my crew.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 17:01   #5
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

I so agree with HellKicker lo mistwraith btw :P

I like a playing HC more than anything.. i think that`s why Sid, Zhil and lot`s of other previous HCs and Officers did so good.. cause they were the command, but also some of the best players in their alliance..

I think it`s important that HCs is good rolemodels for attacks and defence participation.. And the important factor, that they actually are around the crutial hours when decissions must be made, and to mobilize the team at late hours etc.

To many HCs these days, get the roles on their former selfs.. and do some shitchat during the day and goes to bed earlie, cause they got no real planet to play for, and don`t feel like staying up at this point. Let the BC team do "something" aswell kinda idea.

no HC id like to follow.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 17:12   #6
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

I think its important that at least one of the HC's has a top planet as it gives abit of a role model for some of the players and can often keep the friskier members in line

Edit: Oh i see teqh said something similar, i agree with what he said!
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 17:32   #7
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Who needs HCs? In Ascendancy, everyone is HC (except jer).
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 19:53   #8
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

In todays PA there's no real need for a very good HC. Game skills and technical abilities doesn't matter at all. Being "known" could be useful, but could also be a disadvantage.

I agree with you that dedication, activity and leadership skills are the ones that matters the most. The member who spoke to you is an idiot and should have his brains replaced.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 20:05   #9
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

The varied nature of duties that fall under the HC banner imho mean that there's no such thing as a perfect HC. You stand nigh on no chance of having all the skills required to be a good HC in every department. As such what makes a good HC in my eyes isnt something that can be pinned down to a specific list of qualities as its different for each person and more specifically for each alliance.

Its alot more important on how each persons individual skills come together to produce a good HC team than how complete an individual is, in fact i would say that the old saying "Jack of All trades, master of none" is fairly apt here as its often better to have a team where you have people who's skills are focused than having people who can do a bit of everything.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 09:07   #10
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

hehe .. no the comment by my member didnt offend me, there are getting to be fewer and fewer things that offend me theese days,and there were not alot to start with. I just wondered if there was a blueprint out there, or just what players and HC thought made for a good one.
What i mean is we all know a good one when we see/play with them, but to qauntify it into words is a damned sight harder, because it cant be merely winning a round, its what they do to create the team and hold it together that wins the round, and if that team doesnt win they can still be seen to be good.

It cant be that their ego maniacs cos theres enough command staff that are not, but some that are.
It cant be that they sacrifice real ife for the alliance, because most dont do that either.

I know most of the time its a gut feeling and is different for everyone because everyone is looking for something different.

Say u have a core group of 40 members, have your found 40 like minded souls ? thats fairly doubtfull, so do they have the ability to be everything to everyone ?
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 10:12   #11
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Having a good planet is probably a good thing for an attacks HC. As well as showing the ability to run raids & wars properly. Who's going to follow a leader if they expect to crash every night?

I always thought taking advantage of your position was shit too. Attacks HC who picked 2-3 fat targeets before releasing the raid. If there's a policy where raid BC gets 1 pick first then they can use that, but anything else is a bit shit IMO.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 10:23   #12
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Having a good planet is probably a good thing for an attacks HC. As well as showing the ability to run raids & wars properly. Who's going to follow a leader if they expect to crash every night?
I don't think it's necessary to have a fleet planet. On the contrary, for an attacks high command, I think scan planet is optimal. The one round I worked on the field, I was running a scan planet. While we were doing fake launches and retaliating defenders with again more or less fake fleets, it was awfully handy to have those scans available to you. Moreover, with tactical strikes, I think the members will have more confidence it the work of the attacks organizer if he can provide scans instantly as required, whenever being on the helm of organizing attacks. Plus, you've got the strings in your hands - you can say "I'll be here to scan", instead of nudging "Will book a scanner". I guess you could just bluntly bash this rant with the fact that I've had a degree of success in the previous rounds so it's a credibility already "gained" to some extent.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 11:58   #13
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

This might be a little "old school"... but imo,

A good HC, is one that will do ANYTHING and WHATEVER it takes for the alliance to win and have fun.

Members tend to do anything for someone they know will do anything for them.

They will stand behind their members wether they are right or not. The only exception being if they cheat or disrespect another player.

A total lack of morals helps as well.

Any old NoSers out there? You tell me... was I a good HC?
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 12:02   #14
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo
This might be a little "old school"... but imo,

A good HC, is one that will do ANYTHING and WHATEVER it takes for the alliance to win and have fun.

Members tend to do anything for someone they know will do anything for them.

They will stand behind their members wether they are right or not. The only exception being if they cheat or disrespect another player.

A total lack of morals helps as well.

Any old NoSers out there? You tell me... was I a good HC?
I think you was, but having to learn you to send roiders with your attackfleet was a bitch.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 12:10   #15
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

You always did what you thought was best for NoS and you didn't mind ****ing up alliance politics (hi r13) to give NoS a good round. Instead of doing what 1up/ND wanted you to do you did the exact opposite and ****ed off a lot of people outside NoS. It also felt good that you showed people we're not to be "petted around".

Spoken to some of the people in our block about that round and some absolutely hated you for doing it, but at the same time admired you for following your own path.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 12:11   #16
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Hey... Not my fault I like to kill stuff and forgot the name of what they changed the roiders to.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 12:21   #17
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
You always did what you thought was best for NoS and you didn't mind ****ing up alliance politics (hi r13) to give NoS a good round. Instead of doing what 1up/ND wanted you to do you did the exact opposite and ****ed off a lot of people outside NoS. It also felt good that you showed people we're not to be "petted around".

Spoken to some of the people in our block about that round and some absolutely hated you for doing it, but at the same time admired you for following your own path.
Too true, Dingo was NoS, and he was the one to follow in NoS, sure, I disagreed with him sometimes, but he was the one in charge. Having a dictarorish leaderstyle in PA leads to you offend some people from time to time, but done the right way, the people you have around you will always stay loyal too you because they know that you set the alliance first no matter what. That is the most important thing I think the new PA lacks. Strong leaders who are CEO's in their right name, and not just sockpuppets for a HC.

The ability to take quick decisions, then later not accept having them questioned, maybe even if you might be wrong = signs on good leadership.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 12:54   #18
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Strong leaders who are CEO's in their right name, and not just sockpuppets for a HC.
I was always a sockpuppet

I'd agree to Dingo being an exellent HC/CEO with his dictatorship-style. Means you always know where your limits are and you know what to expect and it will ensure that the members that stick around all pull in the same direction(the direction the dictator points out).
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 13:43   #19
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

To answer the question...............

ME!
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 15:23   #20
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Lead by example and delegate the rest. That is all.

A good HC does as they expect of members and delegates enough that they're not left with too much to do.
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Unread 14 Aug 2007, 08:56   #21
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo
Any old NoSers out there? You tell me... was I a good HC?
You were a really good HC. Mind you, I was a sucky mercenary so my opinion is void. Are you returning btw?
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Unread 14 Aug 2007, 09:10   #22
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veil05
You were a really good HC. Mind you, I was a sucky mercenary so my opinion is void. Are you returning btw?
The rumor goes Dingo and Forest are setting up an alliance called Sexilition.
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Unread 14 Aug 2007, 09:31   #23
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

In response to many of the posts here, I dont believe you need a HC with a top planet. To be fair, how much do you really care about your HC's planet when you should really be caring about your own? I see so many people talking about HC's from other alliances and their score and rank, so it seems as though the interest towards other alliances' HC are much bigger than that of your own.

Also, it is as many notes, often the hc is inactive for parts of the round, but what Nadar says is true. In most cases you dont need the HC to be über-active, you need an officer team that works, where activity and availability is high, and with enough access to handle the daily problems that members have. The bigger decisions can be made by HC without having to stay on irc for 12 - 16 hours per day.
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Unread 14 Aug 2007, 09:41   #24
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

this is a quality hc must have: dont be shit
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Unread 14 Aug 2007, 11:17   #25
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

i have never had a top 100 planet or whatever but i dont regard myself as a bad HC because of the fact.

members like a HC who is down to earth. By actually spending time talking with the memberbase and interacting the players can relate to this, so in a way having people skills is a +

a good HC, also imho, is somebody who doesnt let problems show. i could be having a full out argument with Jonas in the HC room but be chatting and laughing on with Almeida in the private room.

i think a HC that is loyal and dedicated to the alliance is a plus too. switching command members Claudio Ranieri style every round is not such a good idea. members like consistency (ofc if the command members are rubbish then having them in round after round is perhaps not such a good idea :P)
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Unread 14 Aug 2007, 11:21   #26
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
Lead by example and delegate the rest. That is all.

A good HC does as they expect of members and delegates enough that they're not left with too much to do.
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Unread 14 Aug 2007, 12:07   #27
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

A good alliance HC is comrpised out of the following:
1 Figurehead who is associated with the alliance in any we. He/She and the alliance are literally one and as such he/she adds a certain glamour style towards the alliance he/she is in. Most of the time Figureheads are long time players and extremely experienced.

Second in command. He/She supports the figurehead in any way possible.

Several support HC depending on the nature of the game. Intel, personal affairs, internal affairs, external affairs, Military are most logical.

Group leaders. In this game it would be buddypackleaders or GC.

This would be the outline organisation. Each player in HC should have the required experience, know how and skills. The skills are far more important then experience. Experience one can learn. Skills are inborn.
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Unread 14 Aug 2007, 20:09   #28
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Loyalty and dedication are musts, of course. I also value HC who are easy to talk to, and spends time talking to members about their worries and calm them, if the members feel it's needed. However, there are different roles and all that, so this is obviously not something every HC should spend every day doing. Knowing your players is a good thing though, knowing when they'll break, knowing how to pull their strings to do their best, and so on.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 09:49   #29
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

People call me a carebear for a number of reasons, but when it comes to HCing, it might fit well. I spent too much time online, often just listening to peoples concerns and trying to calm them and motivate them. But I don't think he got the best out of me as a player, no. And I'm quite a bad player anyway... But I've never felt so much as home as I've felt in Ascendancy.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 10:07   #30
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Same here. And in light of the topic at hand, this is slightly amusing: we don't even have HCs. Which may very well be an indication that all you HC-type people out there vastly overestimate your own importance.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 12:34   #31
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistwraith
After a rant wth a drunk member who basically accused me of being crap cos i didnt have a planet in the top 1000 for many rounds, (lets see i finished early 300's this round) which i didnt react to as said member was 3 sheets to the wind and basically looking for an arguement, it made me wonder....

What does make a good hc ?
This round i found, been able to out drink the members helped
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 13:50   #32
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
I don't think it's necessary to have a fleet planet. On the contrary, for an attacks high command, I think scan planet is optimal. .... I guess you could just bluntly bash this rant with the fact that I've had a degree of success in the previous rounds so it's a credibility already "gained" to some extent.
Yeah, I agree.

As long as people know you're competent, then your planet at that time doesn't matter. I'll reiterate it to say that I reckon attacks HCs should have shown competency; a few t100s would do it, but a masterful running of a war would do just as well I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exode
In response to many of the posts here, I dont believe you need a HC with a top planet. To be fair, how much do you really care about your HC's planet when you should really be caring about your own?
See above.

For attacks HCs at least, people need to know their leaders are competent. A good planet is a reasonably good indicator of this. Competent leaders are more likely to be followed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
i have never had a top 100 planet or whatever but i dont regard myself as a bad HC because of the fact.
You're a DC though.

DCs have shit planets loads of times (i know I did in r11/12/13) because they're often desperately whoring their fleets out to defend their alliance mates. It's BC HCs I was thinking about!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Same here. And in light of the topic at hand, this is slightly amusing: we don't even have HCs. Which may very well be an indication that all you HC-type people out there vastly overestimate your own importance.
ND's performance always closely followed the strength & activity of the HC team. Especially with predominantly newer or less active players, you'll always need people with optimal skills & optimal activity in optimal positions to keep things going. The people who can access the intel, speak for the alliance when you're doing politics or concentrate your firepower.

I don't think it's any coincidence that eXilition & 1up both featured fantastic HC teams.

Ascendancy are an exception because of how they play and the quality of players they've got.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 14:50   #33
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Ascendancy are an exception because of how they play and the quality of players they've got.
What, like Alki?
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 15:55   #34
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

except Alki
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 16:08   #35
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Alki is a better player and a better human being that 90% of you fags, make no mistake. And he's one of the worst Ascendancy players, go figure!
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 16:38   #36
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

why the hate guys :crymeariver:
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Unread 19 Aug 2007, 21:57   #37
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
The varied nature of duties that fall under the HC banner imho mean that there's no such thing as a perfect HC. You stand nigh on no chance of having all the skills required to be a good HC in every department. As such what makes a good HC in my eyes isnt something that can be pinned down to a specific list of qualities as its different for each person and more specifically for each alliance.

Its alot more important on how each persons individual skills come together to produce a good HC team than how complete an individual is, in fact i would say that the old saying "Jack of All trades, master of none" is fairly apt here as its often better to have a team where you have people who's skills are focused than having people who can do a bit of everything.
This is the right answer. There is no single perfect HC member, but there is something pretty close to a perfect HC team
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 01:00   #38
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo
Any old NoSers out there? You tell me... was I a good HC?
When you played actively you were great. When you were in Dingo[WoW] mode you were not so great.

You also had Chimpie, Cin, Heru, and God2 to help you.


When I was in 1up, Sid usually was always in the top 100. Having good players as HC inspires players to try harder and be more active.
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 01:04   #39
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

I'd hope that at least one HC had a top planet since that provides an example - but that's looking at a HC team overall.

On an individual basis there's no need for a HC to have a top planet if they can work magic in some other way - whether through politics, internal management or even general morale.
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 08:42   #40
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

HC or his crew sets the example and way of gaming, not the members. The members have joined in and follow you cause of the shared toughts or cause your alliance offers what they seek and need.

HC claims targets first and by this I dont mean prepicking the easy targets, but taking the strongest targets and making sure those get covered.

Therefor the best HCs tend to not end highest cause of the sacrifices he/she might need to do for his core of members. Also on defensive field.

Good HC is aware of others way of gaming and can predict always a few moves forward. So prepares his team for the coming.

Anyway most important thing about HC is a character and the ability to motivate his players, either by his own example or by good communication. A good character alone can be enough to inspire the players to do their best.

Good reputation or own gaming skills is never a negative issue, but not nessesarily needed.
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Unread 20 Aug 2007, 10:33   #41
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

i agree with what LukeyLove said, long legs and nice tits!
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Unread 26 Aug 2007, 11:50   #42
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Well after reading this long drawn out thread.. i feel i should add to it.

Personally i believe that there is no such thing as "a good alliance HC" !

Yes there is your favourite "alliance HC" , but if the alliance is a good one then this thread should have been "what makes a good alliance HC Team".

The best HC in any alliance is the TEAM not the individual. Our members look for leadership from the alliance not from an individual. You will always find in the HC team a favourite, the hard nose one, the laid back one and even the HC just for the Tag. But we are lucky to have a team that is friendly ,objective, fun and most of all work for the Alliance.

So go Alliance HC's good luck and have a good round.
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Unread 28 Aug 2007, 14:30   #43
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

I'm an example of crap/medicore planets applying for a member of the HC/Executive.


My planet wasn't 'bad' in r4 (it was one of the remaining top Fury planets as in top within the Fury alliance) and every round thereafter seemed to pale in comparison (though I had some good planets and rounds afterwards in Eclipse and 1up - Finished top 100 in Eclipse. Cant remember if I did it in 1up, I think elviz pulling defense screwed me last moment :|)

I'm not a very good HC though, I'm past my sell-by date. Back in r4 I was good. Ghengis put me up for promotion based on the skill I'd show in fighting VeX in P7 and the fact I commanded good respect in the alliance and was fiercely loyal. r5 I succeeded in my role as Executive, but too well, as I was fairly burnt out. r6 I faded into obscurity as I handed Wrath over and became military orientated with Meth. r7 I returned to Wrath, which was a success but not as much as before.

So why on earth did Sid make me Executive in 1up? Why did Rob/Focht have me as HC in Eclipse?

My theory is the following:

Iconship. My zealous nature in Fury was legendary, I was the very epitome of a loyal member. Whilst my skills in planet management were mocked, I knew how to do deal with people and most important have it benefit me and my alliance moreso than them. I was generally a good and fair person, following Sid's train of thought in never breaking deals and never lying. Whilst my polticial skill was not near Sid, Cayl or Rob, I could hold my own, which is more than some.

Loyalty: Key component really. 1up command was always dissected into the Executive and Officers with different levels of trust. All within the Executive were trusted implicitly, and this was why I think Sid allowed me a spot there - I could be trusted utterly. I'd proven as much in Fury after a failed attempt for others to influence me into breaking Wrath from Fury at the end of r5, and in my refusal to join Deus Ex Machina pre-r6. I'd shown Sid and the rest then that 'power' was not my motivator.

Social: Out of alot of HC's I was always one of the most social in talking to members. I made time for members, dealt with countless queries and acted like a secretary at times for the other HC in keeping them aware of issues. I used this role to keep Sid and the rest of the Executive aware of membership mood. The most well-known round for this was probably r7 when elements of Fury chose to speak to me rather than other Fury command as they knew my interests laid purely with Fury.
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Unread 28 Aug 2007, 14:47   #44
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

You also donated ships to your officers to keep morale up.
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Unread 28 Aug 2007, 22:07   #45
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

seriously some things do get old:|
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Unread 28 Aug 2007, 23:57   #46
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Zhil you have earnt my respect and if i could pos rep ya i would but think i wont be able to for a while
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Unread 29 Aug 2007, 02:19   #47
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo
*snip*Any old NoSers out there? You tell me... was I a good HC?
With exception to the Cell thing, You were likely one of the best to ever do it.
You looked out for our intreasts at every turn and screw everyone else, the way it should be....

Tho tbh, you did let the alliance go on far too many rounds after it had effectively died taking the good old name down with it... we should have shut down shop after R6 and gone on a high.

Last edited by Anakin; 29 Aug 2007 at 02:55.
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 07:22   #48
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin
Tho tbh, you did let the alliance go on far too many rounds after it had effectively died taking the good old name down with it... we should have shut down shop after R6 and gone on a high.
I must disagree with you there. I value more a long term alliance than a gathering for a round or two. Few lower ranked rounds shouldnt take any credit away from the earlier success.
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Unread 30 Aug 2007, 14:27   #49
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

NoS did land a second place finish in r13 or something aswell tho.
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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 15:57   #50
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Re: Whats makes a good alliance HC ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking
NoS did land a second place finish in r13 or something aswell tho.
I don't know how it worked out internally in NoS after that, but pretty much everyone wanted to screw them over r14 onwards. ND were certainly going to ruin NoS' r14...

I wonder how much this contributed to their eventual collapse.
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