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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 18:38   #1
Rids
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Breaking into IT.

So, basically, I've had it with retail.

I'm quite simply too fking smart to be selling phones for the rest of my life. And I need to get away from retail before I end up doing just that.

Now, IT seems to be something that could interest me, I'm reasonably good with computers, I guess. And, hell, I do spend a lot of my time on the internet and arsing around with computers, so it would seem that might be an avenue for me to explore.

However, obvious I would need some official qualifications to back up that I have a reasonable idea of what I'm doing, and the Chris Riddler Certificate of Arsing Around With Computers wont quite cut it.

So, what is my first step? I was thinking MSCE or similar, but I'd like a bit of advice from people who are in the 'field' so to speak. Also, is it worth me trying to get into IT? I live and work in London, so I'd assume that there will always be IT vacancies popping up, and I'd also assume they pay pretty well, but, because I'm reasonably old (21 now) and have no real work experience in IT, am I actually going to be able to find a job relatively easily?

Cheers

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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 18:40   #2
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Re: Breaking into IT.

no, you arent.

wait 2 years and try again.

the IT market barely has any vacancies right now, and is flooded with graduates. In <4 months i get to try and get a job in it, and im not hopeful.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 18:53   #3
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
So, basically, I've had it with retail.

I'm quite simply too fking smart to be selling phones for the rest of my life. And I need to get away from retail before I end up doing just that.

Now, IT seems to be something that could interest me, I'm reasonably good with computers, I guess. And, hell, I do spend a lot of my time on the internet and arsing around with computers, so it would seem that might be an avenue for me to explore.

However, obvious I would need some official qualifications to back up that I have a reasonable idea of what I'm doing, and the Chris Riddler Certificate of Arsing Around With Computers wont quite cut it.

So, what is my first step? I was thinking MSCE or similar, but I'd like a bit of advice from people who are in the 'field' so to speak. Also, is it worth me trying to get into IT? I live and work in London, so I'd assume that there will always be IT vacancies popping up, and I'd also assume they pay pretty well, but, because I'm reasonably old (21 now) and have no real work experience in IT, am I actually going to be able to find a job relatively easily?

Cheers

Rids
Please move to India and take helpdesk calls, be unhelpful cause you really don't know jack and hard to understand.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 18:55   #4
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Re: Breaking into IT.

I reckon people are a little bit harsh
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 18:57   #5
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid00
Please move to India and take helpdesk calls, be unhelpful cause you really don't know jack and hard to understand.
You first sweetheart.

and, any difficulty you have in understanding me, would most likely be something to do with you having the reading skills of a retarded 10 year old, not my english.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 19:01   #6
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Re: Breaking into IT.

When I finished Uni I didn't have any real practical experience with IT (and no IT qualifications) yet the first job I got was sort of in IT (on a tech support helpdesk). Helpdesk type roles do come up at a reasonable regularity (try agencies who specialise, or just the general ones). They are pretty poor working conditions, but they aren't always that interested in formal qualifications (like an MCSE or whatever).

When I went to my interview they didn't ask anything about studying, merely fielded practical questions (what steps would you follow if someone didn't have any sound playing, someone's video display is messed up, etc, etc). It's one way to start, and you can often get some decent experience there.

One of my friends who left school at 17 (and did bugger all until he was 23) recently did an MCSE type course and has just got a relatively decent job just this month. You have to big up your informal skills and experience though (e.g. fixing your grans computer now becomes providing an on contract service for customers with specific IT needs and such).

Another friend who quit Uni without a degree has also just got a helpdesk type role at a magazine publisher.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 19:04   #7
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Re: Breaking into IT.

helpdesk jobs ****ing suck though.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 19:06   #8
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3
helpdesk jobs ****ing suck though.
Yes, indeed but as I say they're a start. Most of the people who were at my former work (before it went out of business) went on to "proper" IT jobs after a couple of years.

I don't see where else (unless you're lucky) you're going to start with no formal experience or qualifications.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 19:11   #9
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Qualifications arent really a problem, I'm able to finance an intensive MCSE course or similar if thats whats required.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 19:14   #10
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Re: Breaking into IT.

IT is a very broad subject.
"I'm reasonably good with computers, I guess" is an odd way to decide you want to start a career in IT.
What do you like doing? What, specifically are you good at? Maybe you should have a think about what area of IT you want to be in and direct your applications at low level jobs in appropriate companies while looking into possible qualifications (if they're necessary). Honing your practical skills won't hurt either.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 19:20   #11
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Rids youre forgetting one single thing

YOU
ARE
A
****!

People with your "**** the World" mentality were born to sell. They excel at the task. You should realistically be outselling everyone else in the store. Now from my way of looking at it, what you need to do is simply step it up a notch by moving to a rival company to get a higher salary, or stepping into sales with a different product.

You have all the techniques now. You more than likely know how to sway a customer from a maybe to a definete , and thats a rare talent.

**** IT. Its an industry run now by agencies and middlemen taking far more from companies than you do in your pay packets. Everything is outsourced, and unless you run your own IT company, you wont be making shit.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 19:24   #12
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Re: Breaking into IT.

I'm sure his salesmanship skills could still be utilised within the IT trade; he could pro-actively sell scalable synergetic enterprise solutions to the customers whom his extreme software paradigm is intended to empower and incentivize.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 19:28   #13
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Re: Breaking into IT.

You see, its not so much that I cant do the job, I am ****ing good at the job, and that is being recognised on a regional level.

The real problem is that I ****ing hate it. I'm still pulling in the figures, and I'm no long trying. I dont even bother giving peoples a sales pitch anymore, its take it or leave it, and 95% of the time they actually take it.

I just cant face going to work anymore, the boredom and frustration of dealing with idiots on a daily basis has really started to get to me after 18 months.

With regards to IT, I guess would consider myself for a helpdesk or network support role, I'm not able to code or webdesign, period. But, when it comes to things like support (helping mum and several retard friends with no idea about computers) pc building, and standing things like OS and program installation, I'd consider myself more than capable.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 19:31   #14
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
I just cant face going to work anymore, the boredom and frustration of dealing with idiots on a daily basis has really started to get to me after 18 months.
.
I dont think switching to IT is going to solve this problem mang.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 19:32   #15
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Working in a supermarked would fit you and your skillevel.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 20:59   #16
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
I just cant face going to work anymore, the boredom and frustration of dealing with idiots on a daily basis has really started to get to me after 18 months.
HHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, perhaps you don't want to do IT then.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 21:08   #17
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Exclamation Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
I just cant face going to work anymore, the boredom and frustration of dealing with idiots on a daily basis has really started to get to me after 18 months.
Oh yeah, helpdesk will be just the ticket for you. :lol:
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 21:27   #18
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Re: Breaking into IT.

I'm sensing a theme
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 23:54   #19
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Re: Breaking into IT.

you know, in my job, its the bloody IT helpdesk who are the ****ing idiots, but there you go :/
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 00:19   #20
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Did they come into the job straight from retail?
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 00:23   #21
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Re: Breaking into IT.

i dont know, but considering that i have no formal IT qualifications (apart from an ECDL) and i know more than them in a lot of cases, they generally get me to swearing if i have to interact with them
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 00:30   #22
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
I just cant face going to work anymore, the boredom and frustration of dealing with idiots on a daily basis has really started to get to me after 18 months..
As some people have already pointed out, maybe you don't want to work in IT after all.

You are still only 21, and claim you are "simply to fking smart" - so go do a fking degree. I'm 24 and I'm nearing the end of my first year doing a BSc in Computing. I might see about doing an MCSE over the summer, and as part of the degree we do a CCNA.

The best of it is, you don't need any formal qualifications in computing to do a degree in it.

Apply now. Work till September, hand your notice in in August. Or go through clearing in the middle of August and then hand in your notice when the Uni accepts you over the phone (which is what I did).

Seize your future.
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 00:50   #23
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
i dont know, but considering that i have no formal IT qualifications (apart from an ECDL) and i know more than them in a lot of cases, they generally get me to swearing if i have to interact with them
^^^

And he doesn't know much about pcs!
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 00:57   #24
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgarath The Sorcerer
As some people have already pointed out, maybe you don't want to work in IT after all.

You are still only 21, and claim you are "simply to fking smart" - so go do a fking degree. I'm 24 and I'm nearing the end of my first year doing a BSc in Computing. I might see about doing an MCSE over the summer, and as part of the degree we do a CCNA.

The best of it is, you don't need any formal qualifications in computing to do a degree in it.

Apply now. Work till September, hand your notice in in August. Or go through clearing in the middle of August and then hand in your notice when the Uni accepts you over the phone (which is what I did).

Seize your future.

This is an option I have considered, a degree is something that I'm interested in. However, the process of applying for a university and selecting a course is something I cant get my head around.

Now, when I was at college, it all relied on Ucas points, which due to several **** ups, I dont have many of.

Are their any websites (other than ucas) which might be able to clear up the muddy path to University for me?

Cheers
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 00:59   #25
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Re: Breaking into IT.

just out of interest, whuch would be the best uni course to go for to become a games programmer?
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 01:03   #26
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I dont think switching to IT is going to solve this problem mang.
Its a different type of idiot.

and nothing on this earth, can be as frustrating as trying to communicate the concept of Pay As You Talk to a Japanese tourist with no grasp, at all, of the english language.

Or trying to tell an Italien who doesnt speak any english, that the phone he wants is only availible on a contract.
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 01:03   #27
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Re: Breaking into IT.

someone told me dundee, but i dont know if thats true or not
my nephew is doing that course at bolton though
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 01:06   #28
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Rids, this is what I did:

August 13th: Finished work, pissed off. "**** it, I'll go to Uni and get a degree"
August 14th, A Level Results day. University clearing - 8.30am I phoned up the University of Central Lancashire and said "Can I come and do a BSc in Computing please?" They asked me a few questions, about my qualifications and such, age, etc. Said yes, you can come, and sent me some forms. I went in work at 9am and printed out a resignation letter and gave it my line manager.

That was it. I had some forms to fill in that the Uni sent me, and then there was the thing for tuition fees/loan, but that's about what i did to actually get into Uni. Don't forget: you would be a mature student, ucas points don't really matter now, most university's will go out of their way to take you on.

If you have any more questions Rids then PM me, although I'll be going bed soon.
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 01:07   #29
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Re: Breaking into IT.

As far as I'm aware UCAS is the path to university application, unless you contact the university directly.

Besides, you don't need a degree to do network support and such, you need skills. As I keep being reminded by my tutors, a degree is about being educated not trained. I also keep getting told that my second job will probably be gained by what experience I have rather than my qualifications.

If I knew when I left school what I know now, I'd have started at the bottom 6 years ago and gained the experience to get the job I want to do, while getting paid for it, rather than paying to get a degree in an industry which currently has a large 'No Vacancies' sign up.

Can't say it's all been bad though
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 01:09   #30
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
and nothing on this earth, can be as frustrating as trying to communicate the concept of Pay As You Talk to a Japanese tourist with no grasp, at all, of the english language.
Explaining something on a computer can be pretty tiring as well.

I've given up before after I spent 10 minutes trying to explain the concept of double clicking.
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 01:20   #31
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Exclamation Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
you know, in my job, its the bloody IT helpdesk who are the ****ing idiots, but there you go :/
That's the problem with helpdesks: there's usually an idiot on one side or the other (and sometimes both!). Not liking those odds, I now avoid helpdesks and just RTFM.
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 01:23   #32
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Re: Breaking into IT.

i cant RTFM, they have got our computers locked down so that only they can do pretty much anything
i mean, i cant even right click as they have it disabled in case we break the machines
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 10:15   #33
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Dave
just out of interest, whuch would be the best uni course to go for to become a games programmer?
Learn C++
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 10:54   #34
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Re: Breaking into IT.

No Learn C. ffs.

And if you want to be a games programmer, any Computer Science / Engineering degree is fine as long as it covers the basics (Arch, Coding, Theory, Maths etc).

From what I know of the current Games Degrees, they are a little too wide spectrum to be any use.
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 11:02   #35
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Have you thought about going about it in a different way ?

You work for Vodafone. Vodafone have technical support desks. Get off your bum and apply for a job in one of those departments. It may mean you moving to Newbury but hell no one ever got anything waiting for things to come to them.

So apply for one of those positions and Im sure that they would do what I do in that I pay for my people to get their MCP's towards their MCSE.

After you've got those you can go anywhere and you will have on your CV not only the qualifications but also the practicle experience. It would mean that if you have any share options you keep them, you have continuous service with the same company.

Only down side is that you would probably have to take a pay cut initially and you might not be able afford it.
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 18:09   #36
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CjC
Learn C++
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 18:12   #37
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Re: Breaking into IT.

mmperl
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 21:24   #38
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Don't you have to grow a beard in order to learn perl?
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 21:40   #39
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deciduous
Don't you have to grow a beard in order to learn perl?
I know I did!
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Unread 18 Feb 2004, 22:15   #40
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Timmy
Have you thought about going about it in a different way ?

You work for Vodafone. Vodafone have technical support desks. Get off your bum and apply for a job in one of those departments. It may mean you moving to Newbury but hell no one ever got anything waiting for things to come to them.

So apply for one of those positions and Im sure that they would do what I do in that I pay for my people to get their MCP's towards their MCSE.

After you've got those you can go anywhere and you will have on your CV not only the qualifications but also the practicle experience. It would mean that if you have any share options you keep them, you have continuous service with the same company.

Only down side is that you would probably have to take a pay cut initially and you might not be able afford it.
I've checked our 'wonderful' Internal Vacancies site several times this week already, and I will continue to do so, but nothing along those lines really comes out.

Besides, from a store point of view, as far as I can tell 95% of our IT is outsourced to Fujitsu anyway, so I didnt think we had a big tech desk?

heh
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Unread 19 Feb 2004, 10:09   #41
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
I've checked our 'wonderful' Internal Vacancies site several times this week already, and I will continue to do so, but nothing along those lines really comes out.

Besides, from a store point of view, as far as I can tell 95% of our IT is outsourced to Fujitsu anyway, so I didnt think we had a big tech desk?

heh
Your looking at the wrong places. Don't look at the obvious positions. They aren't all called " A step into the IT world " Support Advisor. They have stupid fancy names like Data Support Advisor................or if you are genuinely interested pm me and Ill tell you who to get your CV to.
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Unread 19 Feb 2004, 19:29   #42
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Re: Breaking into IT.

Im a recent graduate and I have a degree in Information Technology and Telecommunications. Let me just tell you that this is the worst qualification to possess right now.No jobs, there are too many graduates. Every job available is looking for at least 2-4 years experience. No graduates are wanted.

Tech support jobs like you were looking at are pretty shit and you'll end up dealing with the same type of idiots you deal with now.Only you wont be selling them stuff.
They are given out to people with lower end qualifcations as people with degrees and/or lots of experience are expected to piss off to a better job if it comes up.

Tech support is evil,I've done it. Its a complete pain in the arse. Dont do it.

And your concept of "Im good with PC's and I can fix things so I'll go into IT" is the WORST way of thinking. The IT Industry is more complex then just fixing PC's,those jobs are all going to india and russia now.

Think of another industry to get into. By the time you'll get a nice job that pays reasonably you'll be so sick of it you'll just do what your doing now.
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