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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 08:35   #1
Evergreen
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Console Reliability/Robustness

Is it just me? or has the advent of CD/DVD format playing consoles signified a deterioration in Console Reliability/Robustness which is rarely addressed or even featured?

I only ever needed one of any cartridge based console platform and it would live forever given proper care.

However I have been vastly disappointed with the longetivity of the Sony Playstation and PS2, The dreamcast and the Gamecube. I have experienced failure with three of these platforms even when the recommendations for preservation and operational functionality of the consoles are adhered too.

I wouldn't be so upset with this if it wasn't for the fact that my PC has displayed greater robustness, I can't see how simplyfying a PC into a console can actually make it less robust.

This is becomming more blatantly apparrent as the N64 and even the GBA enjoy significant greater lifespans than console's it predecesses, from my relative experience inside my social circle on top of investigation on the internet I think this is a problem that should be addressed.

I'd like to see a console promote itself on the fact that it's more reliable that it's competitiors.

Anyone else got any contributions they can make here?
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 08:40   #2
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

Having significantly more moving parts is always going to lead to some reduction in reliability.

I don't mind things breaking that much, it'd just be nice to have them easily self-repairable (or at least swappable). If my PC CD Drive breaks I can replace in a couple of minutes with any of the other CD drives on the market.

Ignoring that, the question is however would the market reward a console which charged more, but was more reliable? If I only pay £150 for an X-Box, I don't mind if it dies in 2 years. I can always buy another one when it does.
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 08:42   #3
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

I've not really had much trouble with the consoles themself, probably 'cause I don't use the bloody things all that often though. I've had hell of a lot of problems with the games themselves though.

Bring back cartridges I say.
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 08:54   #4
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Having significantly more moving parts is always going to lead to some reduction in reliability.

I don't mind things breaking that much, it'd just be nice to have them easily self-repairable (or at least swappable). If my PC CD Drive breaks I can replace in a couple of minutes with any of the other CD drives on the market.

Ignoring that, the question is however would the market reward a console which charged more, but was more reliable? If I only pay £150 for an X-Box, I don't mind if it dies in 2 years. I can always buy another one when it does.
Your last question ignores the fact that there will be a tax if not already on electronic appliances and the recycling of them. I guess Idealism will always be defeated here so I'll save the effort of contesting someone who considers many things of the world so short term.

I don't see the benefit of encouraging redundancy on finite resources for short term economical gain.

I just can't see why we have tolerated this.
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 09:01   #5
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

I don't see what "economical gain" is to be had from cheaper consoles to be honest. The money would have simply gone to the console producer if it was more expensive.

Idealism? This isn't a moral question as far as I can see. If you want to turn it into that, then sure, yeah obviously consoles which lasted longer would be a good thing. But that can be applied to the thousands of redundancies in our fairly irrational economy.

In a market economy, it's not whether you personally tolerate (??) a companies pricing/efficiency policy or record. It's whether their sales reflect this. In the wider electrical goods market there is room for more expensive, but higher quality goods (e.g. certain TVs, amps, etc). The console market hasn't evolved that way yet.

But yes, the government can intervene with disposal taxes (etc) and change the equation slightly.
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 10:57   #6
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

we have a silly amount of consoles in our house, they all still work, you must just be crap at looking after yours
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 11:39   #7
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

It's a big economical game. If those companies build their consoles more reliable, they will cost more, hence the shop-price wil rise and they will sell less consoles. This results in them selling less games, thus making less profits.

I believe I read somewhere that the PS2 and XBox are sold under the production-cost and that the companies are making their money with the sales of games.
So, if they increase the price of their consoles, less people will buy it and buy the console of the competetor who DOES have a low price. And since they are already making a loss on the console sales and they will sell less games to compensate for it cause there are less of their consoles on the market, they will go bankrupt.
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 12:11   #8
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

I think you are taking that a little too far Structual. Putting the price up a small amount wouldn't bankrupt the company though. People buy the silver PS2 even though it costs around £30 more than a black one.
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 13:08   #9
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

OK, perhaps "going bankrupt" is a bit over the top.
But what if the Xbox costs 100 quid more than a PS2, if that's the price to make it more reliable? Who would buy that Xbox? Even though it might be more reliable, barely anyone will buy it cause everyone will buy that PS2. And fewer consoles on the market, means fewer sold games.
So, they cut the costs on production by putting cheaper components into the box and sell it at a more competitive price.

That's the whole difference between a computer and a console. You can compose your comp with the parts you want. And people who buy a new comp usually have more money to spend and are more willing to spend some more money to get that well-known brand of component. The console manufactorer will buy those parts that will do the job they are required to do, and from the lowest bidder. That way he can sell his box at a lower price than the competition, and make more money from games.
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 13:35   #10
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

I have had no problem with my Gamecube despite carrying it about in my backpack most weeks to get between uni and my house. The games don't seem as reliable though, quite a few of them have stopped working despite being kept in the boxes when not in use but none of my old Amiga/new/snes/n64 games have broken yet despite being years older. Doesn't bother me a great deal though, I buy a new one then take the old one back saying it is faulty and pass it off as the one I just bought.
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 14:08   #11
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergreen
However I have been vastly disappointed with the longetivity of the Sony Playstation and PS2, The dreamcast and the Gamecube. I have experienced failure with three of these platforms even when the recommendations for preservation and operational functionality of the consoles are adhered too.
My gamecube still works fine, and so did the dreamcast we had at school, despite dropping it nearly every day because the cables got tangled, so when sitting down there wasn't enough slack; cue a tug on the cables and the system sliding off the desk.

The only console I've had break was my NES, but that was because it got all wet and filled with beetles.
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 14:10   #12
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
I think you are taking that a little too far Structual. Putting the price up a small amount wouldn't bankrupt the company though. People buy the silver PS2 even though it costs around £30 more than a black one.
It cost £10 on top of a regular one in durham
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 14:12   #13
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

My SNES lasted ages, but the power adaptor thingie went a few times.

I also broke my one of my flat-mates PS2's by plugging it in. We had dodgy electrics though, so I'm not exactly to blame.
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 14:46   #14
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

I still got a NES here. I sometime play duckhunt when I'm REALLY bored.
I've been thinking of taking it apart, putting a mini-ITX motherboard in the NES casing and use it for LANs. But it's really a shame tearing the NES apart.
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Unread 29 Dec 2003, 16:13   #15
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Re: Console Reliability/Robustness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
I believe I read somewhere that the PS2 and XBox are sold under the production-cost and that the companies are making their money with the sales of games.
So, if they increase the price of their consoles, less people will buy it and buy the console of the competetor who DOES have a low price. And since they are already making a loss on the console sales and they will sell less games to compensate for it cause there are less of their consoles on the market, they will go bankrupt.
The one thing you aren't taking into consideration here is that during a console's life it gets cheaper to make for the company.

So when the PS2 was first released at full price of 300 quid, Sony made a loss on everyone sold, hoping for a tie in of 3:1 of games.

Its only been very recent, but at the current market cost/price of the PS2, Sony now makes a profit per unit sold.


Regards the breakable thing (the original question) early adopters are often hit the hardest with shoddy hardware. No amount of initial testing by a company can truly simulate the 'cables are too short so I keep pulling the bloody thing off the shelf, or, my brother is too dumb to put a cd in the drive so he just sorta smashes it a bit' so the first 'batch' are ultimately the poorest.
And yes the old PS2 CD/DVD drives sucked. The new ones don't. Here's a hint, if you call into the help centre and explain that the CD/DVD drive has gone, they probably won't ask if its in warranty, and just swap it for a newer model (reconstituted).
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