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Unread 4 Mar 2008, 17:31   #51
Kenny
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Haff a scan Moon! 1 Planet, all scans & covops are carried out on the "Moon Base" lol.

And er - I didn't crash 500k value did I?
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Unread 4 Mar 2008, 17:37   #52
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
Haff a scan Moon! 1 Planet, all scans & covops are carried out on the "Moon Base" lol.

And er - I didn't crash 500k value did I?
1) The efforts needed to code in scan moons compared to a second planet are alot higher, that is probably the main reason why scan moons won't happen.

2) I guess that your moon will most likely be unattackable so you have no fear of SK'ing & cov ops. This would probably mean almost everybody in the universe would have a scanmoon with all research / 150 amps & all the cov ops. This would make dist whoring pretty much obsolete...
If we go that way we might aswell remove dists & amps all together (Don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing really)
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Unread 4 Mar 2008, 17:43   #53
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

It was only a semi-serious suggestion tbh, I'm more concerned about this 500k I lost
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Unread 4 Mar 2008, 21:59   #54
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I'm sorry man, but after PT200 (realistically much earlier) I know exactly which planets are in which alliance and if I wanted to pick accordingly then I could. The only people who are disadvantaged in that regard right now are new players without access to the intel that most of the people on these boards, yourself included, take for granted. It's needlessly unfair.*
How many non-Asc alliances give their members easy access to such intel? I'd prefer to have some way of testing it before letting it loose in a real round in case it does result in the smaller alliances getting disproportionately bashed in raids.


I think that demolishing the scan tech tree is still a viable way to improve the game. Rather than adding extra stuff like scanning moons, personal support planets etc.

EDIT: How about having galaxies tagged? Without specifically highlighting individual planets, it makes it more difficult to fakenick ingal, which is the more important thing IMO.
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Unread 4 Mar 2008, 22:07   #55
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

heh.. multy paid accounts, 1 for playing, 1 for scanning and 1 for defending ? silliest thing ive heared for quite a long time (nothing personal)..
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Unread 4 Mar 2008, 22:12   #56
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

also i would love to see 10 man gals with two 3 member bp-s and 4 randoms in it ... maybe 1-2 more from some 300 ticks later or so as well.. would rock. fake nicking and stuff like that dont actually matter imo (i dont fakenick btw) since the uni is mapped kinda fast anyways so nothing much to worrie about the real nicks then neways.. tho have to agree it somehow might be better to talk about things like someone stated ealier : "did u see that fight at Smasher`s" or so, again not that it would b a big problem if u didnt know the real nick either..
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Unread 4 Mar 2008, 22:42   #57
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Do we have enough bps? I don't think we do.

And I'm not sure that restrictions on alliance membership would work either. People want to play with friends, or don't sign up to an alliance until part way through the round etc.

I think the most sensible route so far is to have gals varying with bp size. From 5 bp and 3 randoms, to 0 bp and 12 randoms or something like that. It's KISS-compatible and doesn't involve adding more restrictions.
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Unread 4 Mar 2008, 22:42   #58
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon
also i would love to see 10 man gals with two 3 member bp-s and 4 randoms in it ... maybe 1-2 more from some 300 ticks later or so as well.. would rock. fake nicking and stuff like that dont actually matter imo (i dont fakenick btw) since the uni is mapped kinda fast anyways so nothing much to worrie about the real nicks then neways.. tho have to agree it somehow might be better to talk about things like someone stated ealier : "did u see that fight at Smasher`s" or so, again not that it would b a big problem if u didnt know the real nick either..
To add to the fight at player x idea: we should have a 'fight of the day' link on the overview page that gives the battle with the most value concerned or most value lost that day. I don't know if that is harmful in any way, but it sure would be fun to see
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Unread 5 Mar 2008, 00:09   #59
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by paolo
To add to the fight at player x idea: we should have a 'fight of the day' link on the overview page that gives the battle with the most value concerned or most value lost that day. I don't know if that is harmful in any way, but it sure would be fun to see

All of this is very nice but it's hardly the selling point to attract people to play the game. I think that needs to be the coders' priority.
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Unread 5 Mar 2008, 01:16   #60
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Anyone who opposes this idea is straight up punk and needs to come down into the streets yo.
I'll beat you down like the punk you are, yo!

Anyway, I used to rather like the fact that this game represented all the aspects of a real military conflict, including extensive spy-networks and counter intelligence efforts, however since most of that has died off anyway it seems to me that it really doesn't matter if we went in the direction suggested. The intelligence-aspect of the game has died, the game is in its death throws, let's just make it official.
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Unread 5 Mar 2008, 12:17   #61
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
the game is in its death throws
We've been in them for ages.

1690 planets by the end of r25. R14 had 2074 at the start, or 1437 after a purge of inactives (according to cheerios' soapbox).

11 rounds and hardly a collapse in playerbase. As long as we have a game that can keep new players interested, and maintain the interest of the current addictees, an enjoyable game should be around for quite some time.

I think Achilles' point about scans is one of the most important ways we could get new players addicted. And I still think dumping the scan techtree is the best way to start doing that.
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Unread 5 Mar 2008, 13:10   #62
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
We've been in them for ages.

1690 planets by the end of r25. R14 had 2074 at the start, or 1437 after a purge of inactives (according to cheerios' soapbox).
Planetarion had 1590 by the end of round 25. If you substract the 248 planets in C200 and in 1:1 you will find that Planetarion ended 1342 planets this round that can be called active, at a guess I would substract around 250 more that actually was in the game but had not been exiled etc..
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Unread 5 Mar 2008, 13:25   #63
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Planetarion had 1590 by the end of round 25. If you substract the 248 planets in C200 and in 1:1 you will find that Planetarion ended 1342 planets this round that can be called active, at a guess I would substract around 250 more that actually was in the game but had not been exiled etc..
1342 is about 93% of the 1437 frpm r14.

My point is that I genuinely believe that PA can continue for plenty of rounds yet. Working to improve the game is worth doing because it makes it more fun for us, and may help stabilise or even increase the # of players.

PA's selling point is its ease of access and the fact it can be played from work and so on. With mobile tech allowing browsers in more places now, I think there's a market segment that PA can tap. We're not going to see a surge in player numbers, but I think we can make the game more entertaining for all of us and help keep new players' interest long enough to get a number of them hooked. Which would be a great thing IMO.
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Unread 5 Mar 2008, 13:35   #64
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
1342 is about 93% of the 1437 frpm r14.

My point is that I genuinely believe that PA can continue for plenty of rounds yet. Working to improve the game is worth doing because it makes it more fun for us, and may help stabilise or even increase the # of players.

PA's selling point is its ease of access and the fact it can be played from work and so on. With mobile tech allowing browsers in more places now, I think there's a market segment that PA can tap. We're not going to see a surge in player numbers, but I think we can make the game more entertaining for all of us and help keep new players' interest long enough to get a number of them hooked. Which would be a great thing IMO.
Yeah I agree, it's easy to access and relatively ease to get into. So we should probably change the scanning system aswell.

An idea other than the second scan planet I talked about earlier. Make every scan (or maybe everything until newsscans and let the other scans take longer to research?) available from the beginning and make it so that you can scan with 0 amps. At the moment, someone with 1 amp can scan someone with 1 dist, so why not be able to scan someone with 0 dists with 0 amp? This way you could still use dists and alliance scanners (planets with a large number of amps) will still be needed to scan the dist whores or save res by not 'wasting' res on scans. That makes the game a little more accessible without changing the current game concept or introduce much coding.

Changes:
- start with some research already done
- make 0 amps able to scan.

I'm no coder, but that would take 5 mins tops?

edit: I see that Gate made sort of the same suggestion on the suggestion forum

Last edited by paolo; 5 Mar 2008 at 13:42.
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Unread 5 Mar 2008, 13:38   #65
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

I've made a few threads on the suggestions forum bridging off from this thread.

The scan thread is based on Achilles' comments and galaxy size on Kenny's. I hope you don't mind me stealing your stuff, but I included my suggested improvements in them.
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Unread 5 Mar 2008, 13:40   #66
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

By all means, as long as I'm being listened to by at least 1 of you
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Unread 5 Mar 2008, 13:45   #67
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
1342 is about 93% of the 1437 frpm r14.

My point is that I genuinely believe that PA can continue for plenty of rounds yet. Working to improve the game is worth doing because it makes it more fun for us, and may help stabilise or even increase the # of players.

PA's selling point is its ease of access and the fact it can be played from work and so on. With mobile tech allowing browsers in more places now, I think there's a market segment that PA can tap. We're not going to see a surge in player numbers, but I think we can make the game more entertaining for all of us and help keep new players' interest long enough to get a number of them hooked. Which would be a great thing IMO.
Well, to be honest the game have changed very much from r14, and round 14 had a bit more than 1437 planets. The calculation with 1437 was AFTER removing the inacticves throughout the game, not only the ones in c200. So if we're to go by that calculation i would probably put us at around 1000.
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Unread 5 Mar 2008, 14:15   #68
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

A 20% dropoff over 11 rounds is hardly crippling. I do think PA is close to a tipping point where if it shrinks anymore the gameplay won't be sustainable though.
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Unread 5 Mar 2008, 19:42   #69
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
1342 is about 93% of the 1437 frpm r14.
Round 14 was a summer round where hardly anyone played. A lot of people took the round off.
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Unread 6 Mar 2008, 16:53   #70
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

3) We should have 10 man galaxies and 10 man bps
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Unread 6 Mar 2008, 20:27   #71
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

^^ Surely that would just lead to 10 or so fence sitting galaxies (by getting bpers to join 10 different meaningful alliances)? Hardly inspiring. Would probably kill alliances, which I think is a bad thing, but maybe you think otherwise Pilgrim?
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Unread 7 Mar 2008, 08:22   #72
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJN
^^ Surely that would just lead to 10 or so fence sitting galaxies (by getting bpers to join 10 different meaningful alliances)? Hardly inspiring. Would probably kill alliances, which I think is a bad thing, but maybe you think otherwise Pilgrim?
What's wrong with fencesitting?
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Unread 7 Mar 2008, 09:26   #73
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
What's wrong with fencesitting?
2 words: stagnation & boredom.
I'm sure you can figure the rest out yourself
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Unread 7 Mar 2008, 13:02   #74
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
2 words: stagnation & boredom.
I'm sure you can figure the rest out yourself
Actually no, I don't see how stagnation and boredom follow from fencesitting.
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Unread 7 Mar 2008, 13:07   #75
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
Actually no, I don't see how stagnation and boredom follow from fencesitting.
Imagine this then:
A galaxy (or multiple galaxies) with a 10 man bp where every member of the bp is in a different ally and all the allies are top 10.
These gals will grow unharmed for atleast the first half of the round when all allies go round hitting galaxies where they have no members.
Stagnation: Top galaxy is decided almost straight after tickstart, gal with best bp with their members spread best over the alliances will win by default.
Boredom follows the stagnation.
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Unread 7 Mar 2008, 14:03   #76
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Imagine this then:
A galaxy (or multiple galaxies) with a 10 man bp where every member of the bp is in a different ally and all the allies are top 10.
These gals will grow unharmed for atleast the first half of the round when all allies go round hitting galaxies where they have no members.
Stagnation: Top galaxy is decided almost straight after tickstart, gal with best bp with their members spread best over the alliances will win by default.
Boredom follows the stagnation.
What sort of magic lala land do you live in?

Currently, the best galaxy with their members spread best over the alliances always wins. Whether that's done by design (BP) or semi-randomly (current) is irrelevant.

Don't make PAteam try to police fencesitting. That is a responsibility of the players. And the players have been taking a very active and hostile stance to this lately. Sure, the last gal that won was a fence galaxy. But it only was one until most alliances decided that they were not content to leave them alone. They soaked incoming from pretty much every side and still won. The definition of fence galaxy becomes blurry when it only means they navigated political streams for a few weeks.

Fencesitting isn't easy. It's not something that magically comes about when you happen to have the right people in the right alliances. It relies on taking proactive steps to insulate yourself against incoming. It's a metagame in its own right. And I'm sure many galaxies who have won with the help of diplomacy will say that it's fun*.

* I wouldn't know, the only time I've been in a winning galaxy, we were about as diplomatic as a sucker punch.
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Unread 7 Mar 2008, 14:19   #77
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
What sort of magic lala land do you live in?
The magical land of realism...
If you think that this suggestion wouldn't lead to more fencesitting and stagnation then I could ask you exactly the same question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
Currently, the best galaxy with their members spread best over the alliances always wins. Whether that's done by design (BP) or semi-randomly (current) is irrelevant.

Don't make PAteam try to police fencesitting. That is a responsibility of the players. And the players have been taking a very active and hostile stance to this lately. Sure, the last gal that won was a fence galaxy. But it only was one until most alliances decided that they were not content to leave them alone. They soaked incoming from pretty much every side and still won. The definition of fence galaxy becomes blurry when it only means they navigated political streams for a few weeks.
I didn't say that PA-team should try to police fencesitting.
What I meant to say was that PA-team shouldn't make fencesitting ALOT easier, and that is just what a suggestion like "10 man gals with 10 man bp's" does.
Also, with the shorter rounds, those few weeks navigated the political streams like you call it can be extrmely important towards final ranking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
Fencesitting isn't easy. It's not something that magically comes about when you happen to have the right people in the right alliances.
I didn't say it was easy but having the right people in the right alliance sure does help alot doesn't it?
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Unread 7 Mar 2008, 15:42   #78
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
The magical land of realism...
If you think that this suggestion wouldn't lead to more fencesitting and stagnation then I could ask you exactly the same question.
This is where we disagree. You think fencesitting is bad. I don't. I didn't say that this suggestion wouldn't lead to more fencesitting. I didn't say it would. I said fencesitting isn't bad.
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Unread 22 Mar 2008, 00:17   #79
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

I realise that I'm kinda throwing in my 2 cents about 3 weeks later then everyone else, but for what its worth Achilles is bang on the mark in reference to the whole scanning issue.
I still can't believe that the current system actually necessitates certain people dedicating their whole round to scanning. Specialisation is one thing, but this is way beyond that. A game should never force people to sacrifice entire rounds for the 'greater good' just so people can actually get intel on their enemies.

I doubt I really need to go into any depth on why the scanning system presents a barrier to new players, as frankly it seems rather obvious to me. To sum up: New players don't have any connections yet, so are forced to either waste time concentrating on the scan tree or crash their fleet time and time again by attacking blind.

Gate's idea seemed pretty nifty.
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Unread 23 Mar 2008, 04:52   #80
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

might aswell reply myself aswell about generally pa...aka necro aswell.

Main problem in my opinion why I don't care about pa these days is the rounds tick amount in total.

The differences between players are ridiculously small, and real war what anhilates opposition is counter-productive as you can't reap your rewards because round is so short. It's better to fence and grow steadily than make yourself high priority target from what you can't bounce back even if your alliance wins the war.

Might have myself wrong image of the game, but it looks like galaxy politics in old pa's speedrounds, today(next few hours) we'r allied with them.. tomorrow with them against our yesterdays allies with goal being to hinder growth of opposition and to keep yourself growing instead of destroying opposition. If you goto war and destroy opposition the other more neutral alliances just gain from it as they go for roids or whatever affects rankings instead of winning by "killing" opposing alliances what in my books requires more organisation and skill than just roiding the fattest not to mention requires more dedication than poking around. Same goes to personal gameplay.. the planets ranking differences are so small, just compare these days nro 1's score to top50 players to the old differences between nro1 and top50 planets.

But yeps, I understand if rounds would be 4-5months.. the playerbase would propably die as it's so low, and no1 wants to wait for 2-3months before trying again for top spots when others are still fighting it off for top spots.

I'm still drunk, but that's my mental image of pa these days... If PA can't give me a better mental image what's the point.. It's a war game, not some friendly game where you play like a amateur with friends instead of hardcore cold hearted bastard vs your enemies.

I think our BG member skaut had the best quote for it from Conan I think it was. What we still use.

"What is the meaning of life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!"

That's the goal of war games in my opinion. Anything else is just Bullshit.
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Unread 23 Mar 2008, 22:36   #81
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Re: State of planetarion, round 25

Quote:
Same goes to personal gameplay.. the planets ranking differences are so small, just compare these days nro 1's score to top50 players to the old differences between nro1 and top50 planets.
Mostly because they outlawed farming and the rounds are a lot shorter now (too short I believe).
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