OMG , im CHEATING

[bintara]

the reason why im posting this cause i just been accused (warned) that im cheating , and i want all of u guys to discuss bout it

here we goes :

[22:03] ->> You joined channel #MultiHunters
[22:03] ->> Channel Modes are: +tnT
[22:03] ->> Channel created on 11/7/2004 3:34:24 AM
[22:03] <B|nTaRa> oi
[22:03] <+Ace> hi
[22:03] <B|nTaRa> Warned:
[22:03] <B|nTaRa> You have been warned for potentially violating one of the Planetarion rules by Ace. The reason you were warned is: Abusive Language
[22:04] <B|nTaRa> Include your Case-id which is 291.
[22:04] <B|nTaRa> and include your user-id which is 1944.
[22:04] <+Ace> yes
[22:04] <B|nTaRa> wtf did i do ?
[22:04] <+Ace> what do you think you did ?
[22:05] <B|nTaRa> im asking u a question
[22:05] <B|nTaRa> answer a question with answer not a question
[22:05] <+Ace> and i asked you if you had any idea why you are here ?
[22:05] <B|nTaRa> ye
[22:05] <B|nTaRa> cause u sent me ingame mail
[22:05] <B|nTaRa> im asking .. for what
[22:05] <B|nTaRa> whats wrong ?
[22:06] <+Ace> asking ppl to send there ships away is against the rules
[22:06] <+Ace> and in many cases a valid reason for a closure
[22:07] <+Ace> so now you know why you are here
[22:07] <B|nTaRa> huh
[22:07] <B|nTaRa> so ,
[22:07] <B|nTaRa> i cant use diplomacy
[22:07] <B|nTaRa> i cant use my brain
[22:08] <B|nTaRa> what else i cant ?
[22:08] <+Ace> thats non of the above
[22:08] <B|nTaRa> what i did is DIPLOMACY
[22:08] <+Ace> nope it's asking someone to cheat
[22:08] <B|nTaRa> cheat ?
[22:08] <+Ace> to get your planet higher in the ranking
[22:09] <B|nTaRa> im tellin fact !
[22:09] <B|nTaRa> its up to him either to believe me or not
[22:09] <B|nTaRa> either he trust me or not
[22:09] <+Ace> dear sir,
[22:09] <+Ace> i know im alone attacking u , may i ask a favour from u ? could u please let me land ? please send away ur anti fr , with ur help , i canboost my score ALOT , thats all im asking from u cause i know deep inside ur heart , u r a kind man. i attack u because u can boost my score , atm im just top 700 , i really need this land , which can boost me to top 300 or less , please sir , help me .
[22:09] <+Ace> Regards,
[22:09] <+Ace> B|nTaRa
[22:09] <+Ace> thats asking the person to help you cheat
[22:10] <+Ace> and thats nothing else
[22:11] <B|nTaRa> that u call cheating ?
[22:11] * B|nTaRa slaps Soveh|aweh with a big red brick
[22:11] * B|nTaRa slaps Soveh|aweh with a rainbow trout
[22:12] <+Ace> I got more as you know
[22:12] <+Ace> u can take back ur roids , i just want the score and also the xp , thats all , thats why im asking ur help
[22:12] * Soveh|aweh was kicked by P ([email protected]) Reason ((Ace) be gone m8)
[22:13] * Soveh|aweh ([email protected]) has joined #MultiHunters
[22:13] <B|nTaRa> omg
[22:13] <B|nTaRa> what are u ?
[22:13] <B|nTaRa> u cant define diplomacy and cheating
[22:13] <+Ace> I am Ace
[22:13] <+Ace> a multihunter
[22:13] <B|nTaRa> u cant define bluffing and cheating
[22:13] <+Ace> I been around long enough to know thats not diplomacy
[22:14] * FieryDreamsofU ([email protected]) Quit ( Registered )
[22:14] * FieryDreamsofU ([email protected]) has joined #MultiHunters
[22:14] * P sets mode +v FieryDreamsofU for #MultiHunters
[22:14] <+Ace> nor is it bluffing
[22:14] <+Ace> if you add a calc to it too
[22:14] <B|nTaRa> so ?
[22:14] <+Ace> and i wanted you in here to explain it
[22:14] <+Ace> but it seems you want to play dumb
[22:15] <B|nTaRa> what im saying is .. IM NOT CHEATING and i DONT use ABUSIVE LANGUAGE !
[22:15] <+Ace> the abusive language part is done by the tool
[22:16] <+Ace> I wanted a explanation why your sending these mails
[22:16] <B|nTaRa> what kind of proof saying im cheating ?
[22:16] <B|nTaRa> did u get the whole mails ?
[22:16] <B|nTaRa> Dear B|nTaRa,
[22:16] <B|nTaRa> Please crash into me - I could use the salvage.
[22:16] <B|nTaRa> Regards,
[22:16] <B|nTaRa> Kileman
[22:16] <B|nTaRa> ------------------------------------
[22:16] <+Ace> yes i got the whole mail
[22:16] <B|nTaRa> i can call that cheating as well
[22:17] <+Ace> and i'm talking to you now not to him
[22:17] <B|nTaRa> he's asking to crash and he wanna use the salvage
[22:17] <B|nTaRa> why me alone ?
[22:17] <B|nTaRa> where is he ?
[22:17] <+Ace> dont change the subject
[22:17] <B|nTaRa> thats the same from my point of view
[22:17] <B|nTaRa> i dont change the subject
[22:17] <B|nTaRa> u using my mails saying that im cheating
[22:18] <+Ace> I asked you in here to explain it
[22:18] <+Ace> and your not
[22:18] <+Ace> and what i will discuss with him is up to me not you
[22:18] <B|nTaRa> explain what ?
[22:18] <B|nTaRa> abusive language ?
[22:18] <B|nTaRa> cheating ?
[22:19] <+Ace> i'll ask you again
[22:19] <B|nTaRa> im doing DIPLOMACY so i can land my attack
[22:19] <B|nTaRa> whats the problem there ?
[22:19] <+Ace> why are you sending mails to ppl to ask em to send ships away so you can land and score big and even offer the roids back
[22:19] <B|nTaRa> diplomacy + bluffing ?
[22:20] <+Ace> nope
[22:20] <+Ace> imo you where trying to arrange farming and get higher in ranking
[22:22] <+FieryDreamsofU> xp farming, to be precise
[22:22] <B|nTaRa> *sigh*
[22:22] <B|nTaRa> xp farming for attacking #1 uni ?
[22:22] <B|nTaRa> geeezz
[22:23] <+Ace> yes
[22:23] <B|nTaRa> why dont u warned the whole uni for attacking him
[22:23] <B|nTaRa> they all xp farming him
[22:23] <+Ace> and in return for it offering the roids back
[22:24] <+Ace> as the whole universe is not mailing him with what they want to set u
[22:24] <B|nTaRa> cause they dont use diplomacy
[22:24] <B|nTaRa> and i use it
[22:24] <B|nTaRa> whats the problem ?
[22:24] <B|nTaRa> some sent fake attacks , some attack and recalls and attack
[22:24] <+Ace> well since you clearly see this all as a big joke i will discuss it with the MH boss and we will see what we will do about this
[22:25] <B|nTaRa> go ahead
[22:25] <B|nTaRa> acccusing me cheating ,
[22:25] <B|nTaRa> ill take serious
[22:25] <B|nTaRa> ive been here since r3
[22:25] <B|nTaRa> and now u saying im cheating
[22:25] <B|nTaRa> geeezzz
[22:26] <+Ace> there is nothing geeezz about it
[22:26] <+Ace> thx for stopping by
[22:26] <+Ace> we will decide what will happen
[22:27] <B|nTaRa> what ?
[22:27] <B|nTaRa> after accusing me that then just leave like that ?
[22:27] <+Ace> nope i asked you a few times to explain it
[22:27] <+Ace> but you keep acting its a joke
[22:27] <+FieryDreamsofU> B|nTaRa: asking someone to let you land for roids/xp and then offering to let them hit you to get the roids back is a violation of rules 18.6.a and 18.1.a
[22:28] <+FieryDreamsofU> and I know that you are aware of this
[22:29] <B|nTaRa> *sigh*
[22:29] <B|nTaRa> [22:24] <+Ace> well since you clearly see this all as a big joke i will discuss it with the MH boss and we will see what we will do about this <<-- next time , talk to ur MH boss before accusing e as cheating !



*mails sent*

Dear B|nTaRa,

Please crash into me - I could use the salvage.

Regards,
Kileman

------------------------------------
dear sir,

i know im alone attacking u , may i ask a favour from u ? could u please let me land ? please send away ur anti fr , with ur help , i can boost my score ALOT , thats all im asking from u cause i know deep inside ur heart , u r a kind man. i attack u because u can boost my score , atm im just top 700 , i really need this land , which can boost me to top 300 or less , please sir , help me .

Regards,
B|nTaRa

============================================

Try 6:8:5 - your not getting roids here
------------------------------------
http://bcalc.thrud.co.uk/index.php?loadfile=main345615\

if u send away all ur anti FR , i can gain 3mil score which really help me a lot


------------------------------------
Dear B|nTaRa,

Please crash into me - I could use the salvage.

Regards,
Kileman

------------------------------------
dear sir,

i know im alone attacking u , may i ask a favour from u ? could u please let me land ? please send away ur anti fr , with ur help , i can boost my score ALOT , thats all im asking from u cause i know deep inside ur heart , u r a kind man. i attack u because u can boost my score , atm im just top 700 , i really need this land , which can boost me to top 300 or less , please sir , help me .

Regards,
B|nTaRa

==========================================

try 6 8 5 - he's easy
------------------------------------
u can take back ur roids , i just want the score and also the xp , thats all , thats why im asking ur help
------------------------------------
Try 6:8:5 - your not getting roids here
------------------------------------
http://bcalc.thrud.co.uk/index.php?loadfile=main345615\

if u send away all ur anti FR , i can gain 3mil score which really help me a lot


------------------------------------
Dear B|nTaRa,

Please crash into me - I could use the salvage.

Regards,
Kileman

------------------------------------
dear sir,

i know im alone attacking u , may i ask a favour from u ? could u please let me land ? please send away ur anti fr , with ur help , i can boost my score ALOT , thats all im asking from u cause i know deep inside ur heart , u r a kind man. i attack u because u can boost my score , atm im just top 700 , i really need this land , which can boost me to top 300 or less , please sir , help me .

Regards,
B|nTaRa

==================================

Warned:
You have been warned for potentially violating one of the Planetarion rules by Ace. The reason you were warned is: Abusive Language

Please contact a Multihunter (if possible the person who closed you, who is most familiar with the case) in #multihunters (or #support) on irc.netgamers.org or by using http://game.planetarion.com/support.pl

Include your Case-id which is 291.
and include your user-id which is 1944.

If you fail to contact a member of the MH team within a reasonable amount of time then you may be closed untill such a time as we can speak to you.

When replying via the support form, we'll try and answer you as quickly as possible.

This email is sent from an automated system and replys will not be read.
----------------------------------------------------------
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http://game.planetarion.com/support.pl
and we will help you as soon as possible.

Planetarion is brought to you by Jolt Online Gaming Ltd. Reg. in England.
Copyright 1999-2007 Jolt Online Gaming Ltd. All rights reserved.
http://www.jolt.co.uk
----------------------------------------------------------

[Allfather]

That there is just sad.
"Asking people to send their ships away is cheating" must be the dumbest thing ever to be said in planetarion.

[chemical]

Agree.

but, begging is pathetic.

[Tietäjä]

Originally Posted by Allfather

That there is just sad.
"Asking people to send their ships away is cheating" must be the dumbest thing ever to be said in planetarion.

I will not comment on the actual reasonability or lack of thereof regarding the rules setup, but...

"Asking people to send their ships away is cheating" - presuming this is a plan to have one planet achieve a benefit of free roids through a treaty, it's called asteroid farming. According to the EULA, encouraging people to perform against the rule actions is against the rules. To extend the proportion a little bit, is "Asking people to send their ships at you" cheating? Irregardless, round 16, rain had a significant amount of fleet recalled off him because he had alledgeldy asked these people to attack him so he could proft (steal; before you go to the "that was the modern steal" -argument, notice that this is still possible through for example salvage, as mentioned in the Kileman case). This effectively won JBG the round, or so it's said. (bad wording: it pegged down the primary challenger).

I stumbled upon this myself, caring little about the outcome of the round following certain events, a Conspiracy player attacked me with a cathaar escort with the intention of stealing my fleet (he had far from enough pods to grind a full cap off my 400). He mailed me, after I retaliated him (with a fake attack option and a fleet consisting of pods alone), that if I'd recall my nightmares, he'd give me a full cap later because he had corvettes stuck at base. Obviously, the game mechanics recalled the fleet, hence I, afterwards, mailed him to enquire when I'd be able to get my full cap as he promised. He told me to attack him with a sufficient amount of fighter pods the given night. I went to the multihunters and asked whether I need to build these pods and actually attack him with them in order to get him closed for cheating (assuming he'd let me land, obviously this would get me closed too, and I acknowledged it). The answer was "no, you don't need to do anything else", given later the planet wasn't closed (under calls: "mail tactics". what baffles me with these mail tactics is, why he would, afterwards, ask me to send those fighters; if this was successive tactics, it'd go under the sheet of fleet farming rain was pre-emptively punished for at round 16).

So, in order to catch a cheater, you'll need to commit to cheating yourself. The irony runs deep. The what defines cheating and what doesn't consist of, is going on grand scale nowadays. There's been a lot of talk whether the rules are in a need of revamp or not, and as I refered to on the other thread on alliance discussions, I'm willing to bet on yet another revamp for next round. This is just another ridiculing point in the game: the chief multihunter (hereby I refer to Assassin's movements) keeps changing, and the rules experience ackward changes all the time. It's probably equally hard to keep up with them as a newbie as it is to keep up with the ship statistics.

Originally Posted by Stoom

Just one question...

Why isnt arc closed?

If this Bintara person is closed and under deletion, arc should equally be on so. Yet another sign of lack of consistency and bias in the multihunting squad? (Que: Conspiracy doesn't get closed, some other bloke does - I here assume Bintara isn't Conspiracy).

Originally Posted by Assassin

Fact is he broke a rule

The true question is, why other people get closed for similar infridgements, and others don't. This truly became interesting now, I'm definately waiting for Fiery to comment on this case, regarding my case. If I could ask Fiery or Ace to comment on public, why arc is open, and Bintara isn't. I hope the reason isn't "because Bintara was impolite", or "because arc is conspiracy theory". There's a striking similarity to the two rules breaches.

[SilverSmoke]

you've got to be kidding me

[add100]

must be the MH team want to say every one is cheating :< what a sad life they must have

[Nadar]

It wasn't cheating and it wasn't abusive language. It can however be annoying for the defender to be asked to send his ships away, but it's hardly an offense deserving a closure.

If it was cheating he must have been exploiting a bug, multied or cooperated with someone else, but none of these doesn't really apply here. Bintara should just say he won't do that again (it's a ridiculous thing to ask tbh) and MH should probably refine their rules a bit.

[bintara]

This account has been closed by the game admins. If you wish to contact them, contact support here and ask for details regarding your case-id which is 291 and include your user-id which is 1944.
Keep in mind, if you know you have shared your login info with others, or that you have made or accessed more than 1 account, or violated the user-agreement in any other way, your account(s) will remain closed and there is no point is wasting our or your own

*sigh*

now i get closed

------------------------------------
Dear B|nTaRa,

Please crash into me - I could use the salvage.

Regards,
Kileman

------------------------------------

why im the only one get closed ? why not him too ?

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by bintara

why im the only one get closed ? why not him too ?

Cause he used sarcasm, you might have heard of it.

Anyway, if you actually had treated the MH's nice and polite, you might have gotten away with it.. Deserved to be closed the way you acted

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by SteInMetz

Anyway, if you actually had treated the MH's nice and polite, you might have gotten away with it.. Deserved to be closed the way you acted

Many people deserve shit, but it doesn't make it right.

[Archangelx]

that kileman guy must be a real hoser to report something as minor as that.
he ought to cowboy up and be a man, instead of tattling to his pa mommies.

sad state all around. im all for stopping cheating, but this is really pushing it.

man, lol, i still cant believe that kileman guy reported that, what a sad little man.

[Shyne]

I think this closure is ridiculous. What will be used as evidence next, IRC banter?!

<Shyne> Send your ships away #1Planet so I can land
<#1Planet> Ok I will !!11111
<Ace> oh man, the above conversation is an agreed farm!

[Mzyxptlk]

Cry me a river tbh.

[Allfather]

The farse is strong with this one!

[bintara]

im just thinking whats the reasons im being closed ? i get warned , so ? i get it and i argued bout it but i get closed ?

[viC]

[22:07] <B|nTaRa> i cant use my brain

Nothing to argue with there...

Did anyone else feel like B|nTaRa's first mail could have been written by a Nigerian 419 scammer?

[Bane]

Really he should be closed if he tried it again.

[HRH_H_Crab]

I think this closure is ridiculous.

I think the closure is entirely justified on the basis that his "appeal" constitutes the ravings of a (possibly dangerous) madman that should not be let loose on the internet.

Whether he was actually cheating or not, is entirely immaterial.

[Shyne]

I can see that arranged farming is against the rules, but this wasn't agreed and didn't take place.

Lets nuke North Korea preemptively while we're at it MH !

[Bane]

Originally Posted by Shyne

Lets nuke North Korea preemptively while we're at it MH !

Let's SK Shyne instead

Even though the guy was quite rude to the MH team I think he was more shocked than genuinely trying to be an ass because he couldn't get his head around the rule. You gave him the warning but closing him now seems more out of spite, again as I said before, unless he tried it again or even took his behaviour further.

[`mac^]

MH at their best.

iv had 2 warnings like this so far this round. Im still open.

This is rubbish.

[Phil^]

Originally Posted by `mac^

MH at their best.

iv had 2 warnings like this so far this round. Im still open.

This is rubbish.

you'd be on your very last one then, tread carefully

[bintara]

[23:16] <B|nTaRa> hmmm
[23:16] <B|nTaRa> whats the reason im being closed ?
[23:17] <+Ace> asking someone to let you land for roids/xp and then offering to let them hit you to get the roids back is a violation of rules 18.6.a and18.1.a
[23:17] <+Ace> as fiery told you before
[23:18] <+Ace> and if you dont agree with the closure you can ofc talk to fiery as she is my boss about the case
[23:29] <B|nTaRa> Ace, why dont u close my target too ?
[23:29] <B|nTaRa> he's doing the same thing as me
[23:30] <+Ace> like i told cr0 too I'm not discussing things about a planet with others than the owner of the planet
[23:30] <+FieryDreamsofU> and what was your target doing, B|nTaRa?
[23:31] * FieryDreamsofU is now known as Fiery
[23:31] <B|nTaRa> Dear B|nTaRa,
[23:31] <B|nTaRa> Please crash into me - I could use the salvage.
[23:31] <B|nTaRa> Regards,
[23:31] <B|nTaRa> Kileman
[23:31] <B|nTaRa> asking me to crash
[23:32] <B|nTaRa> thats cheating too rite ?
[23:32] <+Fiery> no
[23:33] <B|nTaRa> why ?
[23:34] <+Fiery> Would you like me to answer that in here or in #planetarion to save you the time of copy/pasting it?
[23:34] <B|nTaRa> u closed my account
[23:34] <B|nTaRa> close my target too to be fair
[23:35] <B|nTaRa> this is aint fair anymore

*sigh again*

[SilverSmoke]

It seems they're still talking like spastics on irc like if it's still 2001.

[Benneh]

Hope you stay closed.

[bintara]

and again , here we goes.....

[23:38] <B|nTaRa> Fiery ?
[23:38] <+Fiery> I was replying in #pa
[23:39] <B|nTaRa> did u close my target too ?
[23:39] <+Fiery> nope
[23:40] <B|nTaRa> why ?
[23:40] <+Fiery> because he isn't asking you to farm him
[23:41] <B|nTaRa> errkk
[23:41] <B|nTaRa> he's asking me to crash on him
[23:41] <+Fiery> no
[23:41] <B|nTaRa> ??
[23:42] <B|nTaRa> what r u talkin about ?
[23:42] <+Fiery> You told him that you wanted to land on him for roids/xp
[23:42] <+Fiery> he's telling you to go ahead because he's going to obliterate your fleet
[23:42] <B|nTaRa> nope
[23:42] <B|nTaRa> he asking me to crash so he can use the salvage
[23:45] * AdmV0rl0n ([email protected]) has joined #MultiHunters
[23:45] * AdmV0rl0n ([email protected]) has left #MultiHunters
[23:48] <B|nTaRa> are u protecting my target ?
[23:49] <+Fiery> I don't particularly care who the target is. He declined your offer of farming
[23:50] <B|nTaRa> *sigh*
[23:50] <B|nTaRa> asking someone to let you land for roids/xp and then offering to let them hit you to get the roids back is a violation of rules 18.6.a and18.1.a
[23:50] <B|nTaRa> he asking for salvage

[qebab]

You offered him to land on you for no costs. You offered him to farm you. This makes you a farm, and thus a cheater.

[SteInMetz]

Get over it.. See you next round!

[furball]

bintara, you've been a complete retard here. Give up.

[bintara]

furball , they CLOSED my account

[Pat]

tbh the power is all in the hands of the #1 planet, in this case Kileman. And really its only cheating if he actually landed. And then if that happened i think you would have to call it blinding stupidity on Kileman's side, rather than cheating by Bintara. i think the MH's must have been bored one day, or perhaps enjoy a little virtual power of people

[Assassin]

18.6. Miscellaneous cheating
(a) Attempts to encourage other planets to break the rules will be considered
a breach of this agreement

So he was asking kileman to send his fleet out, allowing him to farm off him. Which would of course have gotten kileman closed.

Think this ends this discusion as i just had it for around 30 mins in #planetarion. Kileman isnt closed becuase he simply to me told him he was just going to die if he landed on him. I do that to my attackers all the time. Thats a bluff. Although ofc you would od deffinatly died.

[bintara]

Originally Posted by Assassin

18.6. Miscellaneous cheating
(a) Attempts to encourage other planets to break the rules will be considered
a breach of this agreement

So he was asking kileman to send his fleet out, allowing him to farm off him. Which would of course have gotten kileman closed.

Think this ends this discusion as i just had it for around 30 mins in #planetarion. Kileman isnt closed becuase he simply to me told him he was just going to die if he landed on him. I do that to my attackers all the time. Thats a bluff. Although ofc you would od deffinatly died.

well , why im still closed and Kileman is playing freely ?
close both to fair.

[Assassin]

Originally Posted by bintara

well , why im still closed and Kileman is playing freely ?
close both to fair.

Did you not just read my post? Your closed for that reason i said above. Kileman didnt break any rule at all so hes still open. Your now remaining closed becuase your still most likely denying you broke any rules. Your guilty, you remain closed. He hasnt broke a rule so he isnt closed. That not easy to understand?

[countCount]

Bintara, I think you could have saved your ass by saying the right things to the MH, before your account was closed.
Even though you feel that you are not cheating, they think you are, and they are the ones with the 'Close account'-button.

[Wandows]

no no.... close the entire universe, that is alot more fair ofcourse. Because clearly when one planet is being closed for breaking (a/the) rule(s) we all should be closed! Fair is fair after all

[cura]

B|nTaRa is a loser for begging people to let them land.
Ace is a loser for wasting his time with stuff like that (if you close him you can close half the pathetic universe).
Kileman is a loser for reporting.
I'm a loser for posting here.

[p333333]

Originally Posted by cura

B|nTaRa is a loser for begging people to let them land.
Ace is a loser for wasting his time with stuff like that (if you close him you can close half the pathetic universe).
Kileman is a loser for reporting.
I'm a loser for posting here.

HaHaHa, funniest thing i read so far and i will stop there. This says it all!

[wakey]

I have to say that I agree with bintara that he hasn't actually cheated. He has seen he isn't going to land and has sent a cheeky mail in an attempt to bluff.

I'm sure most of us have after all pulled something simerlar where we message our targets or those attacking us to try and trick them. For example I have this round and rounds in the past asking people to send certain ships way so I can land simply to use the reverse mentality factor to reduce my losses by making them think i sent something different to what they would usually assume

Also he doesnt actually say "you can have the roids back for free". He says that killmark can come and get the roids back if he so wishes but doesn't say he wont put up a fight.

[Chef!]

You are stupid for not being polite and sensible in first speaking to the MH's. For this you deserve closure.

[Veedeejem!]

Originally Posted by Chef!

You are stupid for not being polite and sensible in first speaking to the MH's. For this you deserve closure.

tbfh the way you speak to the MH's shouldn't affect your case.
There have been people that did far worse things but somehow managed to stay open.
This doesn't change the fact that bintara is bloody retarded for trying something like this, also killeman is retarded for reporting it, he should have just done nothing & let him crash to get the salvage.

I nominate this thread for post of the round btw

[Assassin]

Originally Posted by Veedeejem!

tbfh the way you speak to the MH's shouldn't affect your case.
There have been people that did far worse things but somehow managed to stay open.
This doesn't change the fact that bintara is bloody retarded for trying something like this, also killeman is retarded for reporting it, he should have just done nothing & let him crash to get the salvage.

I nominate this thread for post of the round btw

Fact is he broke a rule. For example how do we know he wasnt trying to get kile closed? Thats why kile most likely reported it. Becuase we then get those idiots who go 'oh look hes farming' etc and try to report him.

I produced a part of the eula which covers this. He did it. I wouldnt of closed him, ill admit that openly. I would of warned him and maybe recalled the fleet and sent him on his way. But i guess the other reasons as to why he was closed was the way he spoke to a MH (ie basicaly still to this point claiming he wasnt cheating... i also had a 40 min rant in #pa with him so i know how persistant he is ) Also coming onto these forums producing logs and the mails. Which to me shows he blatently offered to roid him for XP, then offered he could retal him back for the roids. Its hillarious this guy can argue the case he hasnt done anything wrong. If it was meant to be a joke, it just wasnt funny

But fact is wakey that isnt a bluff. A bluff would be mailing my attacker telling him 'oh ive built ships for you to land on' thats a bluff, asking somone to send his fleet out is not a bluff. Its a request, which if kile had done so, would of got kile closed. And if kile had let him land, he would of most likely been reported anyway as farming for salvage to win the round. So he did the right thing in reporting it.

[Wandows]

Originally Posted by Assassin

For example how do we know he wasnt trying to get kile closed? Thats why kile most likely reported it.

This line alone describes perfectly what is wrong with the current EULA.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Assassin

But fact is wakey that isnt a bluff. A bluff would be mailing my attacker telling him 'oh ive built ships for you to land on' thats a bluff, asking somone to send his fleet out is not a bluff. Its a request, which if kile had done so, would of got kile closed. And if kile had let him land, he would of most likely been reported anyway as farming for salvage to win the round. So he did the right thing in reporting it.

Since when have bluffs been one way. You can bluff as an attacker also by making the defender think you have attacked with other ships than you actually have. I'm not saying that necessarily what's happened here but you can bluff as an attacker, hey ive done it numerous times over the rounds. You make your fleet look like something else, you reinforce that by asking them to send away the ships that target the 'fake fleet' and then hope they run the ships that target the real fleet while leaving the ships you asked them to run.

And what about the people who send out fake bcalcs to get you to run or crash fleets. Is that encouraging you to cheat also.

And finally the simple factor is no matter if he was attempting to cheat, was joking or was bluffing the MH's were letting him off yet changed their mind soley on attitude. Attitude shouldn't be a factor, just because you act nice shouldn't get guilty people off punishment and innocent people deleted

[xontas]

i just got asked to give my opinion by the tread starter and he was not happy with my responce.
i totaly agree with Ace's judgement on this.
yes, asking for a other account to assist you in un-natural gain is cheating
when i was MH (long time ago in a galaxy far far away) i would have closed him for it.

BUT!!! and listen up boys and girls, its kinda importent!

i would have reopened him after a long and hard talk about the rules.
no point in being a hardass about it when clearly the game is not affected yet.
when you have 100K players again you might want a 0 tollorance policy but now every soul is welcome (within reason ofc)

so PA i would say, open the treadstarter up again and trust that your point has been made.
he might not agree with you, but he can never again claim ignorence of the rules !!

-Xontas-

p.s. when did you guys stop taking this stuff to private pm's?

[SpookyVince]

Originally Posted by Assassin

(...)
But fact is wakey that isnt a bluff. A bluff would be mailing my attacker telling him 'oh ive built ships for you to land on' thats a bluff, asking somone to send his fleet out is not a bluff. Its a request, which if kile had done so, would of got kile closed. And if kile had let him land, he would of most likely been reported anyway as farming for salvage to win the round. So he did the right thing in reporting it.

Do we have to read here that the MH teams are reading all mails sent in game?

If no one is reporting this situation, the problem would simply have not existed, on neither side.

Who hasn't ever landed a fleet on a much bigger planet who actually ran a fleet because they simply felt that losing many ships is a worse thing than allowing some roids to go? Would that be farming?

Originally Posted by Assassin

(...)
So he was asking kileman to send his fleet out, allowing him to farm off him. Which would of course have gotten kileman closed.
(...)

Or... do we have to understand that everytime someone lands a good attack, the MH are looking at the mails between those two?

Who, if indeed Kileman would have chosen to run his fleet and let him land, for whatever reason (including maybe the wise reason to save ships), could be in a position to make any of them two closed?

Who, ever, has reported a landing in his gal or alliance, on behalf of someone else, suspecting a cheat? Do people do that? (if so they're really sad people)

So, when anybody decides to leave his planet empty so an attacker will land, it becomes farming? Then we have all been farming multiple times, without knowing in advance. And then I have to suppose that all of those cases had to be examined by the MH team to detect a cheat attempt.

I can't honestly say that Bintara used the right words to talk to the MH (from the posted logs), but sorry, this closure is ridiculous.

Firstly, it is ridiculous from Kileman to report that. It makes me think of pre-school fights. Why didn't he simply ignore the mail, and let his attacker do whatever he wanted, especially if that would be a crash? Why wouldn't he do nothing about it? Why did HE create the problem and got a player closed?

Secondly, as xontas said it, it would make sense to re-open him afterwards, because I can't honestly see any cheating in there. It didn't even happen, and it wouldn't have happened.

Originally Posted by Bane

(...)
Even though the guy was quite rude to the MH team I think he was more shocked than genuinely trying to be an ass because he couldn't get his head around the rule. You gave him the warning but closing him now seems more out of spite, again as I said before, unless he tried it again or even took his behaviour further.

Originally Posted by Pat

(...)
And really its only cheating if he actually landed. And then if that happened i think you would have to call it blinding stupidity on Kileman's side, rather than cheating by Bintara.
(...)

I totally agree. It is pushing it a bit too far, and I don't think this kind of extreme enforcing of the rules will make PA more popular. Again, it would have been cheating if it were arranged, and it wasn't.

Originally Posted by Assassin

(...)
Kileman isnt closed becuase he simply to me told him he was just going to die if he landed on him.
(...)

Which makes my feeling that Kileman was a little sissy in this case even stronger. Again, why on earth did he care to report this?

I have, in the past, mailed some guy because he was defending against my own attack. It just happens that that defender was an online friend, and I wanted my attack to land. I just mailed him to say something like "Hey pal, could you let me land? Can't force you but I'd appreciate." Can anyone honestly say that this is cheat? It is just up to the guy to decide what he does, I don't see any problem there.

This case is about the same, except it's not involving a 3rd party:
- "Let me land",
- "No.",
- "Please I'd like the score and don't care of the roids",
- "No again."
Where is the problem??? I don't have any kind of interest in defending Bintara's opinion here, but I strongly believe that this "PA Police" is out of its role here. Multying and "proper" farming is one thing. Asking a favour is not, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Assassin/EULA

18.6. Miscellaneous cheating
(a) Attempts to encourage other planets to break the rules will be considered
a breach of this agreement

Is this clearly condemning "intent offence" indirectly? So, if someone says "hey if you let me farm you" and the other one refuses, it is still a cheat? The fact that he had the intention, or even rather an envy, to get loads of XP by trying to persuade the guy to go off, is in itself an offence?

Same thing if I went into a bank and asked the cashier "hey, can you let me have all those nice notes?" (without any form of threatening) and he told me "No". This is no offence. So what, if he calls the police, and the police questions me, and I say "He yes, I would have like to have them, but he didn't want to let me have them", will I be jailed? Bloody hell no, please be serious...

I reckon that if the guy did say "OK" then HE becomes an offender too (as long as I didn't threaten in any way, that is) by participating in a theft, but again in this case, Kileman said "sorry, no way you land on me". This in itself suffices to close the whole thing without any necessary closure, I think.

This rule is understandable in its intended purpose, as it is generally not good to cheat at anything, but this kind of exchange of mails between 2 players can't be considered cheating, or even an attempt of cheating. I know that farming is cheating, but...

If for instance:
- I'm attacking a planet with, say, my FR, because I notice it has no anti-FR, is that farming? No.
- The same planet has no ressources to buy any anti-FR. Is this farming? No.
- The planet HAS ressources, but don't spend them. Is it farming? No.
- Even if I mail to ask "He please don't buy defence", is that farming? No.
- If we agree first, prior to attacking, (on IRC or in mail) that he wouldn't buy defence (or in this precise case send it away), is it farming then? Then yes...

But basically, how is this "...(encouraging) other planets to break the rules will be considered a breach of this agreement"? Where is the encouraging? Are there any threats to do so? Is it any kind of pressure? And indeed, when he said that Kileman could even have the roids back, that is not an encouragement in itself either. There is no encouragement as there is no reward. It is simply a demand, that has not even been accepted.

Originally Posted by cura

B|nTaRa is a loser for begging people to let them land.
Ace is a loser for wasting his time with stuff like that (if you close him you can close half the pathetic universe).
Kileman is a loser for reporting.
(...)

Well, yes in a certain way.

Maybe the rule 18.6.a) should be rewritten, or even suppressed. People, all over PA universe, agree to landings & roidings, attacks & defence, etc.

Giving away coords of an easy target is invitation to farming then, and thus could be considered an infraction to 18.6.a). Everybody knows that there are inactive planets. Finding them & roiding them is not farming, it's gaming. Giving coords is encouraging farming. But everybody knows that this is a common practice, and I know of no one who has been closed for roiding an inactive planet after receiving coords from anyone.

In this case, what would have happened if Kileman wouldn't have answered (and reported) the first mail? Likely he would have recalled, and that was it.

Originally Posted by Fiery

(...)
For those of you who think that closure was excessive, feel free to come up with a different punishment for people who try to get others to cheat and come discuss it with me. You may find me in #multihunters.
(...)

Well, what kind of "other punishments" could there be? Re-opening would make sense, again, as this punishment is highly out of proportions with the "cheat" request. The only real punishment he would have had, is if Kileman had said "OK, land" and kept his anti-FR at base (even if that would have been particularly wicked... )

Just throwing ideas, but punishing this kind of "cheat" (encouraging another player to cheat) could be punished by... 3 days closure? Removal of all ships (or up to X value)? Removal of all roids? Resetting XP? Auto-exiling? I don't know, but many sanctions could be put in place, as said by AdmV0rl0n too.

Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n

(...)
For useless players like me, and lower order players who play for fun, they are more likely to learn by being penalised in some way. Obviously, in the case of seasoned or large players who are shooting for top spot, the effect of cheating to win is different from some numpty being dimwitted.

How would you handle this in a way thats non arbitrary?
Well, I would say you treat the top 200 more harshly than the next 200 and so on. If some dimwit in 3999th place does something stupid, then drag them into #multihunters and bollock them. They will go away and know that they are being watched.

Indeed. This doesn't mean that being a low scored player implies that you know less of the EULA, or the contrary, but the implications on the game itself have far less consequences.

I just though I'd post here, as I think it is highly unfair to have closed Bintara on this reported mail, even though I agree he could have easily defended his case more politely & in a more efficient way...

For those who have been patient enough to read all this, thank you for your time

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Chef!

You are stupid for not being polite and sensible in first speaking to the MH's. For this you deserve closure.

The thing is Chef if you get a warning or are closed which you think is wrong your going to be wound up. Its the people who are fully aware they have done something wrong who are polite and calm.

Last round for example Fiery Pm'd me accusing our scanner of being a support planet and cheating. When i informed our scanner of this he was understandably pissed as he had done nothing wrong and if it had been dealt with him directly would have vented his anger at the MH's like he did in our alliance channel. If he had would that really have justified him being closed, I think not
(For the record Fierys aligation was wrong as I was able to prove, the scans that were claimed to have been evidence of being a support planet were scans done for a galaxy he had later exiled from but which the MH had chosen to ignore before making the claim)

How you treat the MH's shouldn't come into it, if you cheat and your polite you shouldn't be let off (like ive seen happen to members of F-Crew before) and if the case is weak or false and your hostile you shouldnt be closed because you werent polite

[Bane]

The game doesn't win points with players who may simply quit the game now after such events. Players who get offended by silly mails should probably avoid the internet and stay in their homes, I think Kileman mainly did it for jokes.

The MH Team should have been the 'bigger people' and understood they'll get this kind of talk from people they say are cheating even though the accused may not understand/believe it. Closing this account serves no purpose, you may say a 'cheater' is gone but he merely asked and there is no compulsion for Kileman to agree, all bintara is guilty of is just being a muppet. Yes some people are immature but it happens, if the MH team can't handle it then they should quit.

[pablissimo]

Originally Posted by Chef!

You are stupid for not being polite and sensible in first speaking to the MH's. For this you deserve closure.

This is probably the most stupid thing I've ever read on this forum.

[SilverSmoke]

Originally Posted by pablissimo

This is probably the most stupid thing I've ever read on this forum.

Oh just wait untill he throws in the sarcasm card.