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Unread 11 Apr 2007, 01:15   #51
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

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Originally Posted by Texan
Western civilization is not going to fall. It's going to end in Europe. It will continue in North America. Join us. Emigrate now or die.
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Unread 11 Apr 2007, 09:41   #52
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

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Originally Posted by Texan
Because most of you are brainwashed by the European media and brain dead anyway.

You don't really need to worry about all this stuff because the immigrants to Europe are going to kill you and all of your children anyway.
You're not even trying any more, dude.
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Unread 11 Apr 2007, 10:45   #53
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

Its stupid to talk about longer life and 500 years lifetime, when there is no 500 years left to spend on this planet since polution is gonna destroy all life on earth in next 100 years.
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Unread 11 Apr 2007, 12:01   #54
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

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Originally Posted by jezebelus
Its stupid to talk about longer life and 500 years lifetime, when there is no 500 years left to spend on this planet since polution is gonna destroy all life on earth in next 100 years.
No it's not. Life will become significantly different for some people, but the human race will be just fine aside from a possible reduction in population.
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Unread 11 Apr 2007, 19:46   #55
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

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Originally Posted by furball
No it's not. Life will become significantly different for some people, but the human race will be just fine aside from a possible reduction in population.
I think the population will continue to grow until it reaches about 20 billion or so. Then we might have problems. Of course, if we refuse to eat genetically modified rice, then we will have a problem feeding all those people. If we take adavantage of all that technology has to offer, we will be fine for hundreds of years.
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Unread 11 Apr 2007, 21:15   #56
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

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Originally Posted by Texan
I think the population will continue to grow until it reaches about 20 billion or so. Then we might have problems. Of course, if we refuse to eat genetically modified rice, then we will have a problem feeding all those people. If we take adavantage of all that technology has to offer, we will be fine for hundreds of years.
I think he meant that there won't be a world on which any people will be able to survive, probably due to global warming and such other man-made catastrophies. This then means that the potential for living for hundreds of years become worthless if you've not got a habitat in which you can survive.
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Unread 11 Apr 2007, 22:44   #57
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I think he meant that there won't be a world on which any people will be able to survive, probably due to global warming and such other man-made catastrophies. This then means that the potential for living for hundreds of years become worthless if you've not got a habitat in which you can survive.
I understood that. I think it's a crock of crap. I believe that 500 years from now Florida will still be above sea level. We will still have oxygen. Water and food will still be plentiful (in Northa America). Muslims will have killed all the atheists and Christians in Europe, Asia and Africa. The United States will have colonized other planets, and the rest of the world will be living in a second dark age. No problem. Bring on the 500 year life span.
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Unread 11 Apr 2007, 23:11   #58
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

Texan has just tried too hard to Troll :(
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Unread 12 Apr 2007, 20:35   #59
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

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Texan has just tried too hard to Troll
You're just upset that you and all your relatives will be dead.
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Last edited by Toccata & Fugue; 12 Apr 2007 at 23:10.
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Unread 12 Apr 2007, 20:53   #60
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

The longer term trend is towards the end of Islam and Christianity and the increasing dominance of secular rationalism. The former has just been given a temporary revival by the unwise actions of various imperial powers who should have known better.
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Unread 13 Apr 2007, 20:29   #61
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
The longer term trend is towards the end of Islam and Christianity and the increasing dominance of secular rationalism. The former has just been given a temporary revival by the unwise actions of various imperial powers who should have known better.
Dante, Are you saying that even though Islamism was slowing dying out, because the United States and the United Kingdom attacked Iraq, the Islamic people are now feeling a revival in the Islamic belief?

And that if the United States and the United Kingdom had not attacked Iraq, the Muslim people in the world would have continued to become more secular?
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Unread 13 Apr 2007, 21:16   #62
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

hey guys.

today i read that chickens are descendants of the T-rex.

url in your language.

do you believe them yes/no.

ps Marx was a gay.
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Unread 14 Apr 2007, 00:39   #63
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
Dante, Are you saying that even though Islamism was slowing dying out, because the United States and the United Kingdom attacked Iraq, the Islamic people are now feeling a revival in the Islamic belief?

And that if the United States and the United Kingdom had not attacked Iraq, the Muslim people in the world would have continued to become more secular?
at no point did dante mention any country .. hes specify religous tendancies only, dont bring one thread into another one.
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Unread 14 Apr 2007, 12:00   #64
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

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Originally Posted by Texan
Dante, Are you saying that even though Islamism was slowing dying out, because the United States and the United Kingdom attacked Iraq, the Islamic people are now feeling a revival in the Islamic belief?
No, don't be silly. The revival of Islam (particularly political Islam) happened way before that.

Although that particular bit of idiocy hasn't helped either. "Hey, let's smash one of the few relatively secular regimes and be utterly shocked when the vacumm is filled by religious nutcases."
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Unread 14 Apr 2007, 12:41   #65
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
The longer term trend is towards the end of Islam and Christianity and the increasing dominance of secular rationalism. The former has just been given a temporary revival by the unwise actions of various imperial powers who should have known better.
Meh, 'unwise actions' have to be evaluated within the context that existed at the time. Yeah, the interventions that ultimately led to fantatical Islamic leaders gaining power may look like a bit of a faux pas in retrospect, but the alternative at the time (Communism and the Soviet Union) was worse. I'd excuse many of America's foreign interventions during the cold war on principle on account of the fact that it was ultimately won, and worth winning.
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Unread 14 Apr 2007, 13:16   #66
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

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Originally Posted by Nodrog
Yeah, the interventions that ultimately led to fantatical Islamic leaders gaining power may look like a bit of a faux pas in retrospect, but the alternative at the time (Communism and the Soviet Union) was worse.
The problem is that "Soviet communism" wasn't actually the alternative in a lot of these cases. The secular left in most of the Arab countries was pretty shit, but not really in the same ballpark as Stalin, and comparatively benign when compared to their contemporary equivalents. The idea that this was some global battle where American and Russia were equally posed to seize world domination is something that only existed in the minds of the CIA and extreme left parties internationally (who usually believed "they" were on the brink of winning). That sort of scenario was untrue from the beginning, but certainly was unthinkable after the Sino-Soviet split in the 60's.

Russia was only really a global power in the sense it had a huge armed forces and enough missiles to at least set back global civilisation a few centuries. Beyond that, it's influence culturally or economically - except for the Eastern European satellite states occupied during WW2 - was relatively minor when compared to the influence of Western Europe and the United States.

An argument in favour of American involvement in South East Asia (and the subsequent slaughter of three million odd people) can be made on the grounds that Soviet Communism had to be defeated, but it relies on bizarro logic since :
1. Certainly the Vietnamese revolution was anti-colonial (and anti-French/anti-Japanese) in character at first and was not inherently anti-US - Ho Chi Minh wrote of his admiration of the American revolution and leaders like Jefferson, Lincoln, etc - and hoped for favourable relations with the US once Vietnam was independent.
2. The governments which formed in these states would not have been particularly pleasant but would not have been particularly different from the average third world post-colonial states.
3. The US wasn't fighting the Soviets, they were fighting the peasant populations of already impoverished nations who had precious little to do with the USSR and to whom links were largely formed during and after the first military intervention by the West.

The Afghanistan situation is slightly different due to the proximity of the USSR, but even there the chronology is the same - the Soviets invaded after the mujahideens had received support from the United States (and according to US government sources, this was the ultimate goal of their Afghan policy anyway).

If you're suggesting that as late as 1978, it was worth supporting quasi-fascist religious fundamentalists because the threat of Soviet global domination was so great then fair enough, but I do not think an honest analysis of history will agree with you.
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Unread 15 Apr 2007, 21:51   #67
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

mmm...
Hello everyone... just found my account to be still active


This would be fun, just like being an elf isn't it? altough with a few more bruices in your body... from all the surgeries you would need.
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Unread 16 Apr 2007, 01:19   #68
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Re: Who wants to live forever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Meh, 'unwise actions' have to be evaluated within the context that existed at the time.
Very true, the mistake you make is the time frame. "Western" intervention in the area did not begin during the soviet era, the actions that went on to drastically alter the shape of the Middle East were drawn up well before the end of the second world war, and were mostly initiated at the breakup of the Ottoman Empire and later on at the onset of the second world war [as the rush for the oil fields of modern-day Iraq began]

The nations of the Middle East and Arabian Gulf are all artificial entities who's borders did not exist until the French and British empires arbitrarily drew up boundaries in the Sykes-Picot agreement of 1916 to suite their economic needs. As the large cities all refused yet another stage of colonial subjugation, the rulers for these "countries" were selected from the Saud and Hashemite families of the Arabian Gulf. Selected family members of two nomadic tribes were thus placed as Kings over much more advanced city-states, which were located extremely far away from the gulf region and had practically nothing in common with them. The only way to impose such rule was through Western military might [spurred on by the large deposits of Iraqi oil] The extreme reaction to such rule in the lands that would become Syria and Iraq, and the way in which the population was silenced, would pave the beginning of the brutal puppet regimes of the region which last to this day. After the Arab Nationalist movement of the 60s [spearheaded by Abdel Nasser] whose main aim was to free the area from British and French influence and meddling [beginning with the overthrowing of the Egyptian Monarchy, independence from Britain, and nationalization of the Suez Canal] The west decided to tighten its influence and secure its resources by maintaining their selection in power.

The fact of the matter is that every single government in the area has hardly any popular support amongst its population, and yet remains tightly in control due to Western economic and military support. The radical Islamist movements were all reactions to these governments [the educated middle class were mostly forced into exile by the persecution and corruption - leaving an increasing population of underprivileged faced with a massive difference in quality of living as compared to the ruling class] Insert some radical clerics and increased military crackdowns and you have the perfect mix for fundamentalism at its best. The mujahideen core was comprised of radicals from Saudi Arabia and Egypt who believed they could eventually overthrow the western-backed puppet regimes in their own countries. The radicalization of the Persian gulf [Iran] was also a direct result of western intervention: A powerful, secular, democratic government was in power, backed by the populace. Only to be replaced by the West with a ruthless corrupt Shah - that the reaction to this was an extreme revolution should not be a major surprise to anyone. Radicalization of Iraq was fermented during the brutal regime of Saddam Hussein [America's ally] and cemented during the American-backed [suggested, funded, planned] Iran-Iraq war.

edit: Have a gander at Fisk's The Great War for Civilization for an extremely interesting and insightful look into the history of the area and the mess that it is.
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