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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 13:52   #1
milo
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The CPS is smrt

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5176382.stm

Quote:
Three men have been cleared of trying to procure the raw ingredients for a "dirty bomb" which the prosecution claimed could have devastated a British city if it fell into the hands of terrorists. But mystery surrounds the material at the centre of the plot. So what exactly is red mercury?

If real, a red mercury bomb might cause radioactive devastation


The most bizarre aspect of the trial of Abdurahman Kanyare and his two co-defendants was the fact that no-one in the court could be certain whether the terrifying substance on which the entire prosecution case was based actually existed.

The prosecutor, Mark Ellison, admitted the police had no idea if there even was such a thing as red mercury - supposedly the main ingredient for a "dirty bomb" which could have devastated London.

But he told the jury at the outset: "The Crown's position is that whether red mercury does or does not exist is irrelevant."

He warned the jury not to get "hung up" on whether red mercury actually existed at all.

in relation to this case
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5176522.stm



That such a case could even be brought to court is disgraceful. I honestly think we're living in an age that is close to the commie withchunts of the mid 20thC. Forget the military-industrial complex theres a media-govermental idiocy in this country. The only way the fake shiekh could have made this story any better would have been to include a paedo segment.

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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 13:57   #2
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Re: The CPS is smrt

I'll get the kryptonite in case you know who shows up.
















Tony Blair that is.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 13:59   #3
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Re: The CPS is smrt

i literally just finished reading about that before I came to GD.

how coincidental.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 14:00   #4
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Re: The CPS is smrt

We must procure Naquadah to enable us to destroy the godless west!!!
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 14:08   #5
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Re: The CPS is smrt

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
We must procure Naquadah to enable us to destroy the godless west!!!
Quiet you or I'll run so fast I'll reach the speed of light and burn up the world.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 14:48   #6
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Re: The CPS is smrt

(I haven't read the details) but doesn't the fact that this ingredient might be a myth just mean they were incompetent bomb makers, ie.the intent was still there?
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 14:52   #7
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Re: The CPS is smrt

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-X
(I haven't read the details) but doesn't the fact that this ingredient might be a myth just mean they were incompetent bomb makers, ie.the intent was still there?

they were found not guilty, intent isn't nearly enough in these circumstances for me, they could have fantasised about blowing up something using plasticine or playdoh but if there isn't any prospect of them suceeding they haven't reallly done anything other than commit a thoughtcrime.


edit to put it another way, taking jbgs example i might want to burn up the whole world or make time run backwards by flying around the planet in the opposite way to which it spins, i might really really really want to do that, to the point i start reading technical manuals and physics review papers, ive repeatedly demonstrated the intent to commit genocide, obliterate the human race etc do you want to lock me up for that? Basically what this seems to come down to is at what point does the CPS believe its ignorance is equal to that of a potential terrorist and thereby prosecute him and at what point do they just tut and think 'loon'
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 14:53   #8
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Re: The CPS is smrt

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-X
(I haven't read the details) but doesn't the fact that this ingredient might be a myth just mean they were incompetent bomb makers, ie.the intent was still there?
It depends what they thought red mercury is.

It could be a middle eastern herbal remedy for impotance apparently (although half a mil for a kilo is a bit stiff).

Apparently one of them was thinking of turning the fake sheikh in to the norwegian police. Another might have been after it to clean up old money.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 15:55   #9
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Re: The CPS is smrt

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-X
(I haven't read the details) but doesn't the fact that this ingredient might be a myth just mean they were incompetent bomb makers, ie.the intent was still there?
Basically, yes.

(At least that's what the judge told me.)
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 15:59   #10
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Re: The CPS is smrt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Basically, yes.

(At least that's what the judge told me.)
It seems to be a bit of a question of trying to prove what they believed isn't it? Something rather difficult to do.

Which might explain why they were acquitted.

Although I'm sure you can fill us in what with knowing the judge and all. That said usually I like to skip the intermediary and go and ask god directly myself.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 16:15   #11
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Re: The CPS is smrt

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It seems to be a bit of a question of trying to prove what they believed isn't it? Something rather difficult to do.

Which might explain why they were acquitted.
It seems more to have been the extreme dodginess of the entire exposure operation. The reporter, on discovering important information, should have gone straight to the police (who would have been reliable prosecution witnesses), but instead he wanted to get a fantastic story and so probably blew the entire case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Although I'm sure you can fill us in what with knowing the judge and all. That said usually I like to skip the intermediary and go and ask god directly myself.
I've already bothered God once this week over the "Oh, they're tired" malarkey, so I figured he could do with a rest.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 18:21   #12
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Re: The CPS is smrt

I think they'd seen an episode of spooks too many :|
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Unread 26 Jul 2006, 20:50   #13
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Re: The CPS is smrt

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It seems to be a bit of a question of trying to prove what they believed isn't it? Something rather difficult to do.

Which might explain why they were acquitted.

Although I'm sure you can fill us in what with knowing the judge and all. That said usually I like to skip the intermediary and go and ask god directly myself.
not to distract you from proteus' perfectly valid point but essentially the prosecution was sound.

the reason we criminalise these things is logical. If a man goes through the process of negotiating and buying what he thinks is a fusion bomb and the person selling it only sells him a box full of lettuce leaves then you wouldn't really want that person trying to buy a fusion bomb to be immune from prosecution just because there is no such thing as a fusion bomb now would you?
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 00:07   #14
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Re: The CPS is smrt

Well yeah but my point was how do you prove beyond reasonable doubt that they were trying to buy some sort of "weapon of mass destruction"? According to what was said they were trying to buy "you know what" for which we have five fairly different common beliefs on outlined.
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 00:25   #15
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Re: The CPS is smrt

I can see the purpose of having laws against intent but my query in this case is that the supposed material was complete fantasy, its like trying to build a bomb with kryptonite, the prosecution seemed to take a concept it understood 'explosives' and join it with 'red mercury' to make 'superbomb'.

If we change contexts and instead of referring to 'bomb' say someone was conspiring to make warpbubbles the absurdity would be clearer. Its the word bomb that makes it more believable for everyone but no less rational.
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 00:37   #16
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Re: The CPS is smrt

Question, if I think that hitting a small rock hammer against the wall of Big Ben will destroy all of London and then I pursue that activity with the intent of destroying London, can I be arrested for terrorism? What if I thought jumping on one leg ten times would do the trick? I am sorry, doesn't it take more than 'intent' ?
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Unread 27 Jul 2006, 07:40   #17
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Re: The CPS is smrt

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Well yeah but my point was how do you prove beyond reasonable doubt that they were trying to buy some sort of "weapon of mass destruction"? According to what was said they were trying to buy "you know what" for which we have five fairly different common beliefs on outlined.
Indeed and that is why in this instance the jury found them to be not guilty.

there's still not anything inherently wrong with having such an offence: especially given that removing it would disproportionately protect the incredibly stupid wannabe terrorist who is not obviously less of a danger.
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