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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 11:37   #1
LEFF|pm
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What have alliances turned into...

Random impressions from this round after I had a 9-round break..

Noobs. Arrogant, retarded, utter noobs. Everywhere.

Attackers suicide on me no matter what. After 7 wave of Omen incs I was able to rebuild my entire fleet earlier this round, because attackers lost like 6 times as much...

New Dawn attackers recall, just when you send them mails that you are awake...

DCs take the piss when I report incommings rather then sending defence. While the uncovered incs to my galmember tick to eta 6 they still tell me "angels ingal def" would not be needed.

Angels themselves are total noobs, too and have nothing in common with the FAnG from round 7. They dont use milscans at all, rather guess what is coming, mix up co and cruiser incs and send random ships everwhere. What matters are green numbers!

Wars are bad in general. Rather pm the HCs of every other alliance so each night its either omen, new dawn, angels or tof getting banged by all other alliances.
Just not exi, beacuse we dont want to risk a war! ^^

I see alliance hoppers everywhere. A certain Angel member left the alliance earlier when Angels attacked his gal, just so he could counter the attackers...

Only alliance that seem to not be totally retarded atm is exi. Having 40 members in-tag with decent fleets is definitly better then 80 noobs without a clue....

just my 2 cents so far..

I´m not happy with my return to pa at all :/
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 11:43   #2
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

good analysis of worst tactics weve seen this round but how the hell yu forget to mention f-crew and their ability to prelaunch the most fleets in history at planets around 300 roids. (13+ last time i witnessed it)
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 11:51   #3
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

lol yes thats true, f-crew hit my gal on full pre launch
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 11:55   #4
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

"<x> deserved all the fleets he got because he stayed up dc-ing for the past so many hours" is also a great angels quote, especially when the guy who stayed up dc-ing seemingly sent most if not all def to himself :p
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 11:55   #5
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

This is mainly because of a lack of leaders.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 11:57   #6
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

You know my feelings about this LEFF. I think I'll call it a day as an alliance player after this round, to put it that way. The sheer amount of chaos (Not only in my own alliance, but in pretty much every alliance except eXilition) makes me want to stab my eyes with a pencil. I am not saying I could do it better, but I think most people would have to agree that it has seldom been worse.

The only thing that would make this game worthwhile again for me, is private galaxies. Now that would be something
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 12:00   #7
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
"<x> deserved all the fleets he got because he stayed up dc-ing for the past so many hours" is also a great angels quote, especially when the guy who stayed up dc-ing seemingly sent most if not all def to himself
That's also something to take into consideration. Selfishness and fencesitting is too rewarding in this game. Not saying that dc bias hasn't existed since god-knows-when but the whole concept of fencesitting and defleeching has grown since the last round I played. And I don't like it at all. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it unless the community decides to fix it, and it won't.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 12:05   #8
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

if eXilition win this round i will officially throw in the towel on PA
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 12:15   #9
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

I suggest you get that towel ready, Mek.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 12:39   #10
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

wb to pa mate leff :|
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 12:51   #11
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinoa
good analysis of worst tactics weve seen this round but how the hell yu forget to mention f-crew and their ability to prelaunch the most fleets in history at planets around 300 roids. (13+ last time i witnessed it)
If your implying that f-crew launch 13+ waves on planets then your quite clearly wrong. Feel free to pm me any proof you (don't) have.

Either that or you have shit intel.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 12:57   #12
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

I'd like to direct you folks to an interesting thread addressing this problem somewhat in the suggestions forum.

Rob's idea could give an added incentive to keep playing. Although we all know by now that isn't nessesarily a good thing o/
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 13:17   #13
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

How about alliancewarpoints? I would like a system where you declare war on an alliance through a warsystem and the alliance gains score from landing attacks on that alliance (not only the landing itself but xp for roids) It should not be xp for attacking planets without alliance and alliances should be viewable for everyone. Only when you declare war on an alliance the alliance gets score from it. (I'll write an extensive suggestion for this if anyone thinks this sounds interesting)
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 13:33   #14
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
if eXilition win this round i will officially throw in the towel on PA
I'm convinced that beating eXilition isn't impossible (yes, I'm still annoyed at losing r13), but nobody seems to have figured out how to do it. Competition, for some reason, has not raised standards. There are plenty of under-achieving alliances which seem utterly incapable of understanding why eXilition are good, and how to beat them. The same mistakes get made over and over again, and it's all so sadly predictable.

I feel rather like a grumpy old man complaining about how the youngsters just don't understand things these days, but the scary thing is that the people running alliances are often veterans.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 13:47   #15
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
I'm convinced that beating eXilition isn't impossible (yes, I'm still annoyed at losing r13), but nobody seems to have figured out how to do it. Competition, for some reason, has not raised standards. There are plenty of under-achieving alliances which seem utterly incapable of understanding why eXilition are good, and how to beat them. The same mistakes get made over and over again, and it's all so sadly predictable.

I feel rather like a grumpy old man complaining about how the youngsters just don't understand things these days, but the scary thing is that the people running alliances are often veterans.
1up could have beaten exilition on every occaision but they have seemingly refused to block in the traditional sense in order to do so. Exilition are still beatable, but their massive advantage is that there are so many contenders worrying about each other and are in such a problem that they might be the ones who exilition stop winning that quality will ultimately out.

I have played a pretty poor round this time, but I have played safe, for value and pretty contained. Exilition are good because they can do that with a good level of activity - I have no wish to compete with that level of activity, nor do many. Numbers, a good BC and members who don't crash can get them. If the other contenders members knew how to play in a more contained fashion and focussed on being solid first and foremost, they'd have more than enough value to fight exilition with.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 13:50   #16
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

alliances lacks leaderships.
Nowdays every single players in theses alliances thinks he is the leader and act for his own agenda.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 13:55   #17
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by alch
alliances lacks leaderships.
Nowdays every single players in theses alliances thinks he is the leader and act for his own agenda.
Might be becuase they dont respect the decisions of there current command team.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 14:06   #18
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEFF|pm
Attackers suicide on me no matter what. After 7 wave of Omen incs I was able to rebuild my entire fleet earlier this round, because attackers lost like 6 times as much...
Hehe, we didn't 7-wave you, it was two waves from ours, and the rest were piggies.


Now, I agree. Alliances are shit. Now, go put up a brilliant, functional, able alliance like eXilition or 1up or FanG round whatever, and I'll buy you a beer. I'd say the FanG elite player we had in Omen really failed to impress too, he was more of a mercenary, who was around to soak defences and get support, and never had any interest in contributing to the alliance. Edit: oh yeah, and to arbiter whore his galaxy - he dropped off the minute the alliance goals didn't match his own.

The thing is, while leaders and officers aren't what they used to (now, I never said I'm a good high commander - I've always said I'm more a player less a commander), playerbase is dimunishing, and what's left is becoming more and more mercenary and less and less devoted.

mercenary: a player who doesn't give shit about his alliance, who is a member of the alliance solely because he thinks it will help him advange his goals, and is prepared to leave the alliance at any given moment should it appear not advancing his personal goals alone.

Now, what's the reason to the modern wave of mercenaries, it's difficult to say. Perhaps it's the lack of leaders. 1up comeback tour, anyone?
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 14:26   #19
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

I dont think there will be a 1up comback until the game dynamics are drastically altered.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 14:42   #20
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

I find that every round i play my view of the game is different to my galaxy mates.

For me the #1 aim is for my allaince to do the best it can. My planet/galaxy come second to that aim.

Everyone else seems to worry more about galaxy/planet and thier allaince #2.

I think this is probably the main reason why the whole allaince system is failing because the players themselves are not willing to do anything to get their allaince to #1.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 14:54   #21
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

it would be simple to defeat eXilition but it would require other "major" alliances co-operating with each other and resisting the temptation to **** each other over after they've gone after eXil, or even whilst going against eXil.

Oooooo said "major" alliances musnt be fence sitters. Rules out most alliances then
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 14:59   #22
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudge
it would be simple to defeat eXilition but it would require other "major" alliances co-operating with each other and resisting the temptation to **** each other over after they've gone after eXil, or even whilst going against eXil.

Oooooo said "major" alliances musnt be fence sitters. Rules out most alliances then
define the term "fence sitter"?

that to me would be alliances who do theyre best to get dragged into conflict with other alliances competing against them

there is open conflict among the top alliances equally so thus by my above definition would imply that none of the current top 4 alliances are riding the pine rollercoaster that is the fence
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 15:05   #23
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
(I'll write an extensive suggestion for this if anyone thinks this sounds interesting)
It does sound interesting, I don't really get this short version though :/
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 15:13   #24
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadrath
If your implying that f-crew launch 13+ waves on planets then your quite clearly wrong. Feel free to pm me any proof you (don't) have.

Either that or you have shit intel.
Unfortunatly for you this is true, 3 ppl in 3 different alliances checked intel and it all came out as F-Crew, it was just by luck that someone in gal jpgd everyone a few hours before we got attacked, he sent pa mail saying a load of pre launched fleets from F-crew have been launched at us, i went on irc and 3 people checked there arby and all coords were F-crew, sorry mate, but it was true.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 15:35   #25
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
define the term "fence sitter"?

that to me would be alliances who do theyre best to get dragged into conflict with other alliances competing against them

there is open conflict among the top alliances equally so thus by my above definition would imply that none of the current top 4 alliances are riding the pine rollercoaster that is the fence

Agreed
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 16:48   #26
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Tell you guys what, get me 50-60 decent players to join my alliance, and possibly some of them know how to get good intel, and I'll take them on, just so you all shut up about it.

I swear, all I hear lately is peaple whinning about things, and no one doing much about it. If you want something done, do it yourself.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 16:51   #27
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
Tell you guys what, get me 50-60 decent players to join my alliance, and possibly some of them know how to get good intel, and I'll take them on, just so you all shut up about it.
A brillian post. Applause. I'd take 50-60 decent players to my alliance, people able to DC, BC, sort out internals, and get good intel, and even scan, are just a bonus. Get them to me, and I'll take them on.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 16:55   #28
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
Tell you guys what, get me 50-60 decent players to join my alliance, and possibly some of them know how to get good intel, and I'll take them on, just so you all shut up about it.
You have to remember that everyone is in the same boat pretty much. There is a lack of experienced players in PA and the experienced players that are here already have allies (many of which they have been with for a long time) and therefore arent looking to move to another ally. Train you're members, give them opportunities to be officers and help them learn the skills they need, that is the only way you are going to improve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
I swear, all I hear lately is peaple whinning about things, and no one doing much about it. If you want something done, do it yourself.
This is the PA forum, whinning is the way it has always been Its not that people dont want to do something about it, its that people either cant (due to as you said above, lack of experienced members and/or good intel) or wont (due to being spineless fencesitters).

Edit: The only solution is training members to get better at PA, slowly working you're way up the rankings (as we have seen allies do over the past 5/6 rounds and then being brave and getting off that fence and hoping some other allies will follow you're example.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 16:58   #29
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
A brillian post. Applause. I'd take 50-60 decent players to my alliance, people able to DC, BC, sort out internals, and get good intel, and even scan, are just a bonus. Get them to me, and I'll take them on.
I wasn't saying it just to benefit my own alliance, that would be nice, I was saying it because I'm tired of all this whinning and no one stepping up.

I look at Alliance rankings and see 15 Alliances that have more members than them, and yet they're all scared of them for some reason, afraid that if they attack they might lose, instead of taking the risk to be the ones to claim, they took them on and won.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 17:03   #30
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

training what members? most have played xx rounds and dont give a shit nowadays oh do you mean the new ones chef? yeah right, they are all in c200 by now

pa is boring nowadays
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 17:04   #31
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

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Originally Posted by Chef!
blah, blah, blah...
I think you're missing the point slightly. My post had nothing to do with training members and improving my alliance.

As for the forum being for whining, I give you the award for pointing out the obvious.

Edit: I know that's not a direct quote, but it was too long winded for me to want people to have to read twice.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 17:06   #32
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

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Originally Posted by robban1
training what members? most have played xx rounds and dont give a shit nowadays oh do you mean the new ones chef? yeah right, they are all in c200 by now
Training the members that you already have in your allies. The ones who are getting on ok but could really progress a little to BC'ing/DC'ing and the like. Train them to intel gather or something, but equip them with more skills, especially ones that may make the game more interesting to them. Not all new players end up in c200 anyway so find ways of recruiting them!

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pa is boring nowadays
So you keep saying, yet you're still here.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 17:10   #33
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

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Originally Posted by jt25man
I think you're missing the point slightly. My post had nothing to do with training members and improving my alliance..
Im not missing the point at all. You're post had everything to do with training you're alliance members because you basically said you didnt have the resources to carry out what was being suggested in this thread (ie: getting off you're backside and going up against an alliance which seems to be better than you). I offered you a viable solution as to how you could start to work towards trying to achieve what is suggested in this thread.

Yes, i know i was pointing out the obvious, but you were whinning about the obvious so really you're just as bad as me.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 17:16   #34
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
I wasn't saying it just to benefit my own alliance, that would be nice, I was saying it because I'm tired of all this whinning and no one stepping up.
It strikes to me as very strange, if you're this charismatic, courageous, and determined leader with a vision on how to win a round, how exactly have you not managed to either get a foothold at some major alliance's command staff, or collect those 50-60 decent members?

It's all a lot more than just pipe dreaming about great members, you actually have to work in order to get the members. It's part of the process of becoming "big" or "major player". The way Chef mentioned, is one of the hows of building up.

I'm to be honest proud to say I've got a few solid people such as add and MortalP around in my ranks. Neither was exactly "top name" when they came to Omen, and neither is probably a "top name" today, but both are more or less trained by/in Omen, and are brilliant assets I greatly respect. The few of the remaining dedicated and devoted players.

The thing is, while these two people can be called successes in the process Chef described, it's hard to find these in sufficient numbers to build a succeeding alliance on them, even if I'd probably have a different base if I had 10 adds and 10 MortalPs around.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 17:24   #35
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

You're right Chef, I don't have the resources (ie people). 10 people vs. 43, I wonder who would win? It has nothing to do with training, it has to do with numbers. If training was the issue, I wouldn't of had all my players recruited/stolen by other alliances over the last 4 rounds.

This is really getting side tracked, as the first part of my post about the 50-60 players wasn't meant to be taken entirely seriours. It's ok, though, I don't blame you for not knowing what a facetious remark is.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 17:28   #36
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
You're right Chef, I don't have the resources (ie people). 10 people vs. 43, I wonder who would win? It has nothing to do with training, it has to do with numbers. If training was the issue, I wouldn't of had all my players recruited/stolen by other alliances over the last 4 rounds.
Thats something which you have to live with, allies (such as f-crew for example) have been recruiting then training players for many rounds. Only to have them stolen mid-round by other alliances because (quite simply) they are doing a good job training them. If you can offer something to you're members as an incentive to stay then they wont leave, this can even be a bit of excitement by taking part in a war, im not saying "go take on exi, right now!", find someone more you're size and have a go with them, if you loose, no big deal, you will have had fun during the fight! That is the attitude that needs to be taken on by many allies. Stop thinking about only you're rank (ok people wanna win but theres more to PA than winning) and have some fun!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
This is really getting side tracked, as the first part of my post about the 50-60 players wasn't meant to be taken entirely seriours. It's ok, though, I don't blame you for not knowing what a facetious remark is.
Its not getting sidetracked at all, but i have no intention of getting into a flame war with you, dont turn this into a personal attack thankyou very much, because the moderators will slap you.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 17:31   #37
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Tietäjä, I'm glad you like add so much, he had great potential in my Alliance, but once again, stolen by the mere opportunity to join a bigger alliance.

Maybe if people in the bigger alliances stopped pilfering the people out of the smaller ones they would have the opportunity to grow, instead of just providing the bigger alliances with fresh meat after investing time and energy into them.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 17:34   #38
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Chef, I wasn't taking it as a personal attack, I was just trying to point out to you that my remark was in jest. I wasn't expecting it to turn into a debate about training members properly.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 17:45   #39
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
Tietäjä, I'm glad you like add so much, he had great potential in my Alliance, but once again, stolen by the mere opportunity to join a bigger alliance.
We're an open application alliance. The person in question applied, and his application was reviewed as anyone elses, and approved (though it was discussed a lot, but I personally vouched on basis of the Omen culture of approving interesting applicants regardless if they are newbies or not).

We're not running around stealing your members, if you're such a grand leader you step up as, what's the problem holding on to them? Mind you, Omen was started mainly from scratch, over a core of 10 or so people from the old The-Other-Game alliance core.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 18:10   #40
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

I never said I wanted to be on top, nor claimed to be a great leader. If I wanted to be at the top, I'd change my tactics completely. Instead of being more community oriented where I let my players have a real life, and tell them it's just a game, I'd go hardcore and sell out, take one of the dozens of offers I've had myself.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 19:29   #41
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

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Originally Posted by rep
Yes. Absolutely so. One might blame "lack of leaders" for not being able to inspire people to fight for an alliance, but, people like you are nowadays the exception to the rule - keiza.
I think "lack of leaders" hit the nail on the head. If an allainces members do now have complete confidence in its command staff then they dont want "risk" thier planets in the hands of these people.

Only by having leaders that respect their members, take time to talk to them and reassure them of thier actions will an alliance beable to build a 2-way mutual arangment where both benefit and hence the allaince as a whole benefits.

After seeing some of the action taken by some so called "leaders" and comments made by people in other allainces no wonder they would rather look after themselves and dont care about thier allainces.

eXilition isnt just my allaince, its my PA family.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 19:36   #42
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

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eXilition isnt just my allaince, its my PA family.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 19:42   #43
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

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Originally Posted by ChipZ^
For me the #1 aim is for my allaince to do the best it can. My planet/galaxy come second to that aim.

Everyone else seems to worry more about galaxy/planet and thier allaince #2.
A lot of people view the alliance as a place to just get defence from, and chat in to stop themselves from falling asleep.

In return they of course have to send a bit of defence themselves.

They justify it simply by telling themselves that if they're doing well as a planet then they're helping their alliance. Which is true - but a lot of the time the only incentive for them to send defence is to ensure they get defence when they need it. Not to help the alliance, as it should be.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 19:52   #44
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

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Originally Posted by LEFF|pm
Angels themselves are total noobs, too and have nothing in common with FAnG
Yeah remember in r10 where WebAngel gave out his login details in a public room and someone used them to login to his account and kick all the members. You just don't see dedication and insight like that anymore
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 21:02   #45
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

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Originally Posted by ChipZ^
eXilition isnt just my allaince, its my PA family.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 21:04   #46
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
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Angels themselves are total noobs, too and have nothing in common with the FAnG from round 7.
You made me chuckle JBG, but still want to point out that FAnG from round 10 apparently is something else than FAnG round 7.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 21:15   #47
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipZ^
eXilition isnt just my alliance, its my PA family.
So true, and imo one of the best advantages of eXilition over any other alliance. The members will do anything for eachother.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 21:25   #48
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
You made me chuckle JBG, but still want to point out that FAnG from round 10 apparently is something else than FAnG round 7.
Never let facts get in the way of a good joke.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 22:14   #49
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

The most important thing about an alliance is to have members who have won and lost together. Once you have that people will trust each other because they know they're capable of winning and if necessary go down fighting. If you have a bond with people you're willing to go the extra mile for them. It's not like being good at PA is some sort of impossibly difficult to achieve skill. You just have to want it.
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Unread 4 Nov 2006, 23:22   #50
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Re: What have alliances turned into...

I dedicate ND's political maneuvering to MobRulz.
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