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Unread 11 Jan 2007, 19:23   #1
All Systems Go
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At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

I'm sure most people here stop sometime through the day and think to themselves:

'Yes, the UK Independance Party is exactly this country needs with its modern-retro pre-War stance on issues such as immigration and the role of non-European countries in world affairs. I only wish there were some kind Europe-wide coalition between UKIP and the other progressive parties in Europe to give these policies the political backing the public at large desires.'

I know that I certainly find myself thinking this 4-5 times an hour. Sometimes I get so overwhlemed that I have to go and have a sneaky cry in the toilets.#

But no longer! For I would like to introduce to you Identity, Tradition and Sovereignty

No longer will those wishy-washy Liberals be able to push through their policies of equality and freedom with impunity. Due to European expansion we can now count on the backing of groups such as National Union Attack from Bulgaria to push back the bringers of tyrany.

I would like to welcome all my Patriotic Brothers to the fight, as long as they stay in their own country.

Identity!
Tradition!
Sovereignty!
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Unread 11 Jan 2007, 19:36   #2
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Highly exaggerated, and I wouldn't call those leftwing extremists in the European Parlement liberals
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Unread 11 Jan 2007, 19:44   #3
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
Highly exaggerated, and I wouldn't call those leftwing extremists in the European Parlement liberals
Which left-wing extremists would those be? And which of their "policies of equality and freedom" do you think is the most extreme and undesirable?
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Unread 11 Jan 2007, 19:59   #4
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Which left-wing extremists would those be?
GEU/NGL are practicly communists
The European Federation of Green parties
and perhaps the Party of European Socialists

Togheter they have atleast 15 times as many seats in the EP as the IST

Quote:
And which of their "policies of equality and freedom" do you think is the most extreme and undesirable?
The European parlement can't propose new policies, they can just send them back or veto them

The most undesirable things that some of them want is that they want the NATO to disbandon and let Turkey join the EU
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Unread 11 Jan 2007, 20:07   #5
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

What the hell, who wanted the Romanians ahead of the Turks
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 01:13   #6
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

I find it amusing a number of xenophobic politicians are being forced form a coalition of dirty foreigners within the European parliament to achieve their aims. It's like ****ing to promote abstinence.
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 01:21   #7
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Well I think they're all in agreement that they don't like one another so are willing to work together to make sure they don't have to deal with one another. Democracy in action !
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 01:26   #8
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
OMG disbanding NATO, but who will defend us against the hordes of Eastern Europe over-running our fair continent, no wait.
Don't change the winning recipe, the nato is a means to show our solidarity, bonding is good
The nato isn;t exactly working fluently but they are doing good peacekeeping work
Quote:
And allowing Turkey, a country can legitimately be called fascist into Europe, they must be Communists.
I'm not saying there commies because they want turkey in,
I'm saying they are leftwing and have ridiculous ideas

The main argument to let turkey join is because it's a growing economy (?!)
It's geograficly speaking a strategic location (middle-east/asia), It enhances our multi-culturalism
and if they don't join us they might join some middle eastern block in the future

The reasons for Turkey to join are so poor that the downsides don't even need to be mentioned as they shouldn't even be allowed to join based on those positive arguments. We can't even run the EU smoothly without them, let alone with another country.

The downsides of Turkey are:
- the sheer size of it's population (theoreticly they would get more seats in the European Parliament then the UK)
- Poverty
- the cyprus conflict
- human rights/discrimination, the organisation of their corrupt goverment, cultural differences
The turkish people simply arn't ready for it themselves
- very hard to check the borders between the Turkey and the middle-eastern countries surrounding them (if someone happends to cross the border they get free passage trough the entire eu)
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Last edited by Alessio; 12 Jan 2007 at 02:12.
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 02:01   #9
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Alessio you are more stupid than I thought


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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 02:07   #10
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
And allowing Turkey, a country can legitimately be called fascist into Europe, they must be Communists.
Or a military dictatorship with a hang to etnic cleanising, racism and torture.
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 10:20   #11
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

If your real concern was human rights infringements carried out by Turkey surely having them enter into a process whereby all human rights infringements must be ended and internal policies must be aligned with those of other EU countries would be a good idea? Just saying like.
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 11:10   #12
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Well funny though it might sound, saying someone has a stupid idea is not the same as proving they are leftwing.
I wasn't trying to point out that they had silly ideas thus they are leftwing, as them being leftwing is a given fact

Let me clarify what i meant,
The first post tried to imply the EP consists of liberals, which is really not true
as alot of parties don't even consider themselves liberal
I mentioned those three because I know which dutch parties are in it and what they stand for
The first one even had pictures of the Liberal Mao Zedong on there websites after the elections

If fans of Mao Zedong are allowed in the European Parliament then I don't see any problem with a rightwing parties in the European Parliament
Especially when they form such a tiny minority
The belgian party Vlaams Belang that's in the IST is known to support liberals, some in that party consider themselves 'extremly liberal'

Those points about Turkey have nothing to do with them being left at first glance but it are undesireable things that the party mentioned in the first post is against
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Last edited by Alessio; 12 Jan 2007 at 11:23.
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 11:39   #13
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Quote:
The program of the European Greens emphasizes typical green topics such as nuclear energy, consumer safety and women's liberation. In the area of Internet politics, the EFA/The Greens parliament faction became famous for the strong support of proponents for a free information infrastructure, especially in their work on the directive against software patents in 2003.
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In several publications Siderov, the leader of Attack, suggested that the Jews have been plundering the world by financial speculation since ancient times. On numerous occasions he accused the entire Roma (gypsy) population in Bulgaria of being criminals and talked about 'gypsy terror against Bulgarians' tolerated by the state. Leaders and supporters of Attack denounced on numerous occasions Bulgaria's Turkish minority and campaigned for outlawing the Movement for Rights and Freedoms (MRF - DPS), the party, which represents it in the parliament, envoking the Bulgarian Constitution's prohibition of ethnicity-based parties
However

Quote:
It has been debated in Bulgaria whether Attack is a right-wing or left-wing party (in Bulgaria, anti-establishment and anti-Western slogans have been traditionally associated with the left). Attack members themselves have said that the movement is 'neither left, nor right but Bulgarian'.
It seems idiocy knows no political boundaries.
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 11:54   #14
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
The belgian party Vlaams Belang that's in the IST is known to support liberals, some in that party consider themselves 'extremly liberal'
Is that some kind of joke? They're against abortion and same-sex marriages for christ's sake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by From their manifesto
It must be made clear to aliens and immigrants in Flanders that they are expected to comply with our laws, and also to adapt to our values and morality, to our habits and to important traditional principles of European civilization, such as the separation of church and state, democracy, freedom of speech and the equal status of men and women.
This is just so nonsensically contradictory that I gave up and had a quick wank instead.
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 12:23   #15
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
What the hell, who wanted the Romanians ahead of the Turks
because romania is actually situated on the european continent while turkey isn't?

and even if that argument only stands on one crooked leg, there are larger issues at hand, of which i guess you are or should be aware of. If they are to join the EU and thus be helped/foced to allign themselves to certain rules laws and procedures, ask yourself first: wouldn't the cultural differences be too big of an impediment for them to simply accept the "ruling" of the white man? wouldn't EU have it's very own USA in Irak situation.
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 12:39   #16
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
because romania is actually situated on the european continent while turkey isn't?
Poor old eastern Thrace

Quote:
and even if that argument only stands on one crooked leg, there are larger issues at hand, of which i guess you are or should be aware of. If they are to join the EU and thus be helped/foced to allign themselves to certain rules laws and procedures, ask yourself first: wouldn't the cultural differences be too big of an impediment for them to simply accept the "ruling" of the white man? wouldn't EU have it's very own USA in Irak situation.
I'd sincerely hope it would go to some kind of referendum before the population. Also it would be completely different from the situation in Iraq. First of all it'd be based on bilateral negotiations, secondly there wouldn't be armed foreign troops in Turkey, thirdly we wouldn't destroy their infrastructure before helping them rebuild it. Historically speaking there is obviously less cultural momentum behind the move towards a liberal democracy than in I'd say nearly every country to have so far joined the EU but I don't think that it is impossible for Turkey to be successfully integrated no.

I, of course, have a different definition of integration. I mean people who obey the law as opposed to certain political parties who have been mentioned before in this thread who seem to believe integration involves being a white christian who hates foreigners almost as much as he hates the gays and the gypsies.
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 12:54   #17
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Is that some kind of joke? They're against abortion and same-sex marriages for christ's sake.
Being liberal doesn't mean that you just have to swallow everything
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 12:59   #18
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
Being liberal doesn't mean that you just have to swallow everything
This is a stupid point. Being a liberal means you don't go against basic principles of liberalism such as liberty and freedom of thought and expression.
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 13:02   #19
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
This is a stupid point. Being a liberal means you don't go against basic principles of liberalism such as liberty and freedom of thought and expression.
Within the boundries of the law and society's moral standards,
for example, if they perceive an abortion as murder, which is totally unexceptable no matter how free your country is, then that's a perfectly fine reason to not allow it
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 13:09   #20
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

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Originally Posted by Alessio
Within the boundries of the law and society's moral standards,
for example, if they perceive an abortion as murder, which is totally unexceptable no matter how free your country is, then that's a perfectly fine reason to not allow it
This is worse than your other point. Political ideology has to be based on actual principles to mean anything, not nonsensical gibberish we can just redefine when we feel like it.
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 15:24   #21
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Political ideologies should be based on certain principles
But there will always be issues where a line has to be drawn,
That line is defined by the very people that have to live by it, so that may differ from culture to culture
It's not like they can't be liberal because they don't think like dutchies, or support liberalism in it's purest form

Also Liberalism is also about economical freedom and independance,
Vlaams Belang might be culturally less liberal on some points but more liberal on some others

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
This is just so nonsensically contradictory that I gave up and had a quick wank instead.
You have to understand that they're problems with immigrants in Belgium
Immigrants that show abusive behaviour and don't show any intention to take part in society
Not adressing that would only lead to even more tensions and that's not what anyone wants
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Last edited by Alessio; 12 Jan 2007 at 17:09.
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Unread 12 Jan 2007, 16:57   #22
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

The more countries admitted to the EU the bigger our single market - the only defence and leverage we'll have when China, and probably India, start trying to dump even more goods here. An example of this leverage was demonstrated when the EU anti-monopoly commissioner was able to prevent the merger of two huge US firms, General Motors and Honeywell. And the EU promotes Human Rights. Both are excellent reasons to admit Turkey when they've passed the various tests needed. However, by admitting Turkey we'll have a border with the middle-east which will force us to really think about its stability - why I suspect the US want Turkey admitted - and improve our relations with Islam.

As long as the EU remains an organisation that promotes Human Rights, aides in economic progress and is able to deal with more members I'm all for admitting more countries.
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Unread 13 Jan 2007, 17:02   #23
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
Political ideologies should be based on certain principles
But there will always be issues where a line has to be drawn,
That line is defined by the very people that have to live by it, so that may differ from culture to culture
It's not like they can't be liberal because they don't think like dutchies, or support liberalism in it's purest form

Also Liberalism is also about economical freedom and independance,
Vlaams Belang might be culturally less liberal on some points but more liberal on some others
They can have common policies with liberals but if they don't follow the basic principles they aren't liberals. Unless you want to start calling liberalism something else but then we're clearly not talking about the same thing. Remember liberal is just a label designed to aid understanding of your principles.


Quote:
You have to understand that they're problems with immigrants in Belgium
Immigrants that show abusive behaviour and don't show any intention to take part in society
Not adressing that would only lead to even more tensions and that's not what anyone wants
What Vlaams Belang appear to desire is diametrically opposed to a liberal approach. Adapt to our morality and habits, **** off.
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Unread 13 Jan 2007, 18:09   #24
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

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Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Well funny though it might sound, saying someone has a stupid idea is not the same as proving they are leftwing.
Quite right!

People can have stupid ideas without being left wing even though everyone who is left wing has stupid ideas.

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Unread 13 Jan 2007, 18:10   #25
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Political ideology has to be based on actual principles to mean anything, not nonsensical gibberish we can just redefine when we feel like it.
You've lost me
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Unread 13 Jan 2007, 18:44   #26
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

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You've lost me
I'd reference a wikipedia article but some things are just too low to do
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Unread 17 Jan 2007, 19:31   #27
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

This group seems quite amusing actually. I was reading about it in the independent today. Apparently it boasts Mussolini's granddaughter among its members , the ex-UKIP member has just ratted on one of the Bulgarian MEPs for being anti-semitic and for claiming all Roma people sell their daughters into prostitution at 12 years of age, and its leader may end up in jail pretty soon for denying the holocaust.
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Unread 17 Jan 2007, 19:46   #28
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

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Originally Posted by Hebdomad
This group seems quite amusing actually. I was reading about it in the independent today. Apparently it boasts Mussolini's granddaughter among its members , the ex-UKIP member has just ratted on one of the Bulgarian MEPs for being anti-semitic and for claiming all Roma people sell their daughters into prostitution at 12 years of age, and its leader may end up in jail pretty soon for denying the holocaust.
I don't quite follow your first point, are you perhaps worried about the evil gene?
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Unread 17 Jan 2007, 20:07   #29
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Funny things don't worry me
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Unread 17 Jan 2007, 20:24   #30
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Re: At Last! the Far Right have a Voice in Europe!

Ah, I think I glazed over the first sentence in your post.
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