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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 11:17   #1
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Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Although somewhat sneaky and underhand, is relaying the private channel of an opposition alliance unethical and/or cheating. Discuss
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 11:22   #2
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Yes. It's a perfectly valid means of gathering intel. It's annoying when your channels are being relayed as 1ups were in the past but it's a valid part of the game.

The most frustrating thing is when you don't have your own relay in the channels of the people relaying yours
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 11:23   #3
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Not only is it a valid means of gathering intel, it's freaking hilarious as well!
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 11:25   #4
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

If people prefer to use low tactics then they should imo
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 11:25   #5
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
If people prefer to use low tactics then they should imo
Why are they low tactics?
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 11:29   #6
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Why are they low tactics?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler
somewhat sneaky and underhand
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 11:35   #7
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

The only good thing about reading private channels is that you can gauge the mood of an alliance and you can see them all flapping about when you attack them.

They are actually pretty useless in the grand scheme of things.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 11:35   #8
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
quotes
Thats his definition, whats yours? And I think sneaky and underhand is more a prerequisite of how you get them in place in the first place rather than a moral outlook on the ethics of the practice. It's not the sort of thing you ask for permission for first.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 11:37   #9
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
They are actually pretty useless in the grand scheme of things.
They are sometimes useful to listen in on meetings and to allow you to second guess an alliances immediate objectives.

Also def calls are frequently called for in private channels so it can offer valuable intel on defence/coverage etc.

There's also the inevitable idiots who allow you to put a nick to coords in your arb and possibly announce to the channel that they will be away for a couple of days allowing you to try and ship farm from a planet you *know* won't be running his fleet.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 11:43   #10
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

zomg dirty 1up with your relaying chans etc. you should all burn in hell!
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 11:55   #11
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

It depends if the relay was entered into that alliance specifically to relay. IMO, yeah that can be quite low, but given the current state of ****heads in PA and what they're willing to do *cough*keizari*cough* to win, in relative terms its not.

However, I've heard of cases where some alliance HCs have either "kicked" or disgruntled a member - and even though they might have not been in the alliance for 6 weeks or so - are still so completely dumb to not remove that user from their private channels.

Oh, and we all remember the opportunity jerome and bwtmc(?) were given in Angels attack rooms a couple of rounds ago.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 11:58   #12
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Not only is it a valid means of gathering intel, it's freaking hilarious as well!
I completely agree.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:00   #13
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Relay bots are part of the dark side. Once you cross that line and have sold out, there's no going back.

The issue is more along the lines of how pathetic is it, rather than is it ok. Most people are going to say it's ok becuase they're already doing it, or have done it in the past. It's only not ok when someone does it to them.

Edit: I'll agree with The Real Arfy, and add that the people who do it just to get an upper hand, or possibly out of vengeance, really need to get a life.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:03   #14
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
Relay bots are part of the dark side. Once you cross that line and have sold out, there's no going back.

The issue is more along the lines of how pathetic is it, rather than is it ok. Most people are going to say it's ok becuase they're already doing it, or have done it in the past. It's only not ok when someone does it to them.
Of course it's ok if it's done to them. Like I said, 1up channels were relayed. This *is* frustrating but it's part of the game.

I also fail to see how it's 'pathetic'. I often find this is the response of bad losers when they realise whatever security they had has been circumvented and they have been made to look silly.

It's a perfectly valid and useful tactic. Always assume your channels are being relayed and do your best to relay others is the way I look at it.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:10   #15
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Lightbulb Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
If people prefer to use low tactics then they should imo
Its more sneaky when youve built a planet for 2months and someone takes you out while your knocking out Z's but again.. its all part of the game and is fun when u get to return the favour
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:13   #16
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
I also fail to see how it's 'pathetic'. I often find this is the response of bad losers when they realise whatever security they had has been circumvented and they have been made to look silly.
I meant pathetic in the sense of it amuses me at the amount of effort some people put into this game (or any game for that matter), to try and get an edge, or try and ruin the game for someone else. If only they'd re-direct some of that to real life the world might be a better place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
It's a perfectly valid and useful tactic. Always assume your channels are being relayed and do your best to relay others is the way I look at it.
I agree, it's a useful tactic, I don't use it or like it, but nothing against the people that go out there and try to see how many channels they can get relay bots into. As for assuming everything is being relayed, I've always had that assumption, most of the time I just don't care.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:16   #17
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
I meant pathetic in the sense of it amuses me at the amount of effort some people put into this game (or any game for that matter), to try and get an edge, or try and ruin the game for someone else. If only they'd re-direct some of that to real life the world might be a better place.
You'd be suprised by how little effort it often takes

And success is inevitably measured by having a small edge over someone/something in life too, it's just an extension. Bear in mind I'm not saying you'd bug the bedroom of the boss for extorting things out of them but a little bit of extra effort often goes a long way.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:17   #18
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Thats his definition, whats yours? And I think sneaky and underhand is more a prerequisite of how you get them in place in the first place rather than a moral outlook on the ethics of the practice. It's not the sort of thing you ask for permission for first.
Sneaky and underhand IS the very definition of low
Stalin proberbly didn't consider eavesdropping, phone tapping, taping people, stalking and reading someone elses mail immoral either
it's just a matter of perspective

I do think it's a valid tactic tho
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:24   #19
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
Sneaky and underhand IS the very definition of low
I guess we view it differently then. I see sneaky and underhand as being the mechanics of the situation and 'low' being a term to define unfair or outside the rules.

Fair point you made though.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:25   #20
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
You'd be suprised by how little effort it often takes

And success is inevitably measured by having a small edge over someone/something in life too, it's just an extension. Bear in mind I'm not saying you'd bug the bedroom of the boss for extorting things out of them but a little bit of extra effort often goes a long way.
If I was going to do that, I'd just bug the boss's office, probably get more dirt that way then bugging the bedroom...but you have to consider, there are some people who try to actually succeed by not cutting corners, or looking for that small edge whether it be questionable, or in some cases illegal or immoral...and to those people, that type of behavior is frowned upon.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:28   #21
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
If I was going to do that, I'd just bug the boss's office, probably get more dirt that way then bugging the bedroom...but you have to consider, there are some people who try to actually succeed by not cutting corners, or looking for that small edge whether it be questionable, or in some cases illegal or immoral...and to those people, that type of behavior is frowned upon.
I didn't neccessarily mean 'cutting corners' or being immoral. As I don't think this is either of those I think it's simply a case of going the extra yard which is often rewarding in life too when people take the time and energy to make the effort.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:32   #22
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
Stalin proberbly didn't consider eavesdropping, phone tapping, taping people, stalking and reading someone elses mail immoral either
The NSA doesn't consider eavesdropping, phone tapping, taping people, or reading people's mails immoral either. You can hardly compare sense of real life morality with the sense of what is right and wrong in Planetarion scheme. I doubt anyone would, in reality, feel it's "right" to wage war against someone solely to either gain resources they own or just to utterly trash them. If war can ever be justified, that is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
It depends if the relay was entered into that alliance specifically to relay. IMO, yeah that can be quite low, but given the current state of ****heads in PA and what they're willing to do *cough*keizari*cough* to win, in relative terms its not.
Care to elaborate this time, perhaps?

During the recent round, I've both read a relay of a private channel and I'm pretty well aware there's been at least one relay of the private channel of the alliance I've been in.

I agree with mazzelaar, it's not really "low" as people seem to describe it, and frankly, I can't remember times it would not have been done at. Probably it's been practised soon since people came up with the idea of using IRC relay in Planetarion enviroments.

It's just the ****heads in PA like Arfy who think they're on a moral high ground towards anyone, and are bitter or hold grudge for whatever reason that seem to more or less personally slander on the people who have had such things done.

reptalk reptalk reptalk
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Last edited by lokken; 15 Nov 2006 at 12:39.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:33   #23
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
Sneaky and underhand IS the very definition of low
Stalin proberbly didn't consider eavesdropping, phone tapping, taping people, stalking and reading someone elses mail immoral either
it's just a matter of perspective

I do think it's a valid tactic tho
That's tautology. I also don't see what a fascist dictator who was responsible for killing millions has to do with Planetarion. At all.

When you invite someone to your alliance, you're taking a risk. You're trusting them not to betray your interests.

There is nothing wrong with relaying any channel. Someone who does is breaking that trust, and people have the right be frustrated, aggrieved and angry about it. But they have the right to be that regardless of whether someone breaks that trust. It's just marginally more justified.

Personally, I think you're the low one. Invoking mass murderers to win arguments about an online game. Calling people who use effective tactics bad names. That's low.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:42   #24
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
I didn't neccessarily mean 'cutting corners' or being immoral. As I don't think this is either of those I think it's simply a case of going the extra yard which is often rewarding in life too when people take the time and energy to make the effort.
It's all about perspective and opinion. To some people, relay bots could be immoral, even if it isn't too you. Speeding is illegal (most places), but I doubt there's one person on this planet who's driven a car that's never gone over the speed limit at one point in there life. People know it's wrong, but they don't care, it's perfectly acceptable just as long as you don't get caught.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:45   #25
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
The NSA doesn't consider eavesdropping, phone tapping, taping people, or reading people's mails immoral either. You can hardly compare sense of real life morality with the sense of what is right and wrong in Planetarion scheme. I doubt anyone would, in reality, feel it's "right" to wage war against someone solely to either gain resources they own or just to utterly trash them. If war can ever be justified, that is.
People chose to participate in a wargame
THey do not chose to go into a private channel with a private community where they send personal messages only to get it relayed
If people relay channels because of the game it doesn't has to mean it's a part of the game
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:48   #26
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
It's all about perspective and opinion.
Indeed. I think the perspective that makes moral judgements on an online game based on what is wrong and whatnot in real life is a rather silly one.

edit. to avoid posting fifteen in a run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
THey do not chose to go into a private channel with a private community where they send personal messages only to get it relayed
Hence, the person in power of choosing who enters the private channels and who doesn't is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
When you invite someone to your alliance, you're taking a risk. You're trusting them not to betray your interests.
... as in, the persons who choose to join the private channel should acknowledge that there is such a risk involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
If people relay channels because of the game it doesn't has to mean it's a part of the game
The private community does not have to be a part of the game either. When you make it part of the game (or because of the game, wordplay), though, you open up the relay on it for being advantageous in the game, too.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:52   #27
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Hence, the person in power of choosing who enters the private channels and who doesn't is...
Blame the victim instead of the offender
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:56   #28
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
If people prefer to use low tactics then they should imo
Arent you defining yourself as bit of a "Better than you" individual here?

Intel is intel, always has been, always will. Why do people still think that this game should have ethics when the entire point is to blow some poor guy to smitherines.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 12:56   #29
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
Blame the victim instead of the offender
So, basically, what you are saying, is, relaying/spying alliance channels is unethical because personal messages (the interesting ones related to gameplay) are relayed? And now you're saying, that when you recruit members (players) for your community, the risk of recruiting a spy (a person who relays the channel or spies for information) isn't of the person who recruits for the community to take? You lost me, or I lost you, either way!
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 13:05   #30
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
So, basically, what you are saying, is, relaying/spying alliance channels is unethical because personal messages (the interesting ones related to gameplay) are relayed? And now you're saying, that when you recruit members (players) for your community, the risk of recruiting a spy (a person who relays the channel or spies for information) isn't of the person who recruits for the community to take? You lost me, or I lost you, either way!
Its that person abusing the other's trust; that person is simply a backstabber; and I do think that's low
You could compare it with Angels backstabbing Omen.. or LCH backstabbing ND if you like
only on a smaller scale

It's like a girl dating the wrong guy and then saying
"well, it's no wonder he raped you, i'm sorry but it was a risk you took"
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 13:07   #31
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
Its that person abusing the other's trust; that person is simply a backstabber; and I do think that's low
You could compare it with Angels backstabbing Omen.. or LCH backstabbing ND if you like
only on a smaller scale

Agreed. It's a maneuver, like backstabbing. It's not unethical really, it's gameplay tactics. I don't think Angels acted unethically in when they did what they did (or did not what they did not), they just lost some trust there.

Quote:
It's like a girl dating the wrong guy and then saying
"well, it's no wonder he raped you, i'm sorry but it was a risk you took"
Real life allegories are hardly valid. The fact that someone spies for an alliance in an online game doesn't necessarily make him unreliable, untrustworthy spy in real life. After all, it's just a game.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 13:21   #32
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
Blame the victim instead of the offender
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
It's like a girl dating the wrong guy and then saying
"well, it's no wonder he raped you, i'm sorry but it was a risk you took"
You seem to be struggling with the notion that there's no offence really being committed. This is more like leaving your wallet on a table in a shady pub, then going off to the toilet and just hoping no-one takes the cash out of it.



And your rape analogy is perhaps the worst argument I've seen on AD in a long long time.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 13:28   #33
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
You seem to be struggling with the notion that there's no offence really being committed. This is more like leaving your wallet on a table in a shady pub, then going off to the toilet and just hoping no-one takes the cash out of it.
I think this is a concept some other people don't grasp. I spoke to someone who considered it 'ungentlemanly' and therefore labelled it as cheating.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 13:30   #34
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

well in my opinion releying channels is kinda crap and undermines the only solid thing left in the gameplay allies and their communication on irc.

then that is gone whats left? not me atleast
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 13:36   #35
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Of course it's ok if it's done to them. Like I said, 1up channels were relayed. This *is* frustrating but it's part of the game.
Just because it happened to you doesn't make it ok for you to do it to other people.

In some ways I have no problem with relay channels (it is hilarious when you see someone's reaction in the public channel after having stolen their ships or fleetcaught them).

They are one of the reasons the game is slowly dying though (amongst many others). Alliances are less willing to give "unknown" players a go, for fear that they're a spy. Vouching for people to enter your alliance is more about them being trustworthy than it is about them having any kind of skill. Relay channels are all part of that. If people couldn't or didn't, spy, then alliances would be more willing as a whole to allow new players to enter their ranks and learn how to play the game.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 13:38   #36
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Just because it happened to you doesn't make it ok for you to do it to other people.
You didn't read the point that particular post was addressing. It was to argue the statement made that people cry when they are getting relayed but think it's an ace idea to do it to someone else. I have been on both sides of the coin and don't whinge, it's part of the game in my opinion.

I guess it was a roundabout way of saying "no, I aren't a hypocrite".

Edit: and the biggest reason the game is dying is because it's poo
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 14:59   #37
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
i did this once for idi. it was only meant to be a joke for 5 minutes, but it all got out of hand
On the plus side, Vengeance finished 4th instead of 6th that round.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 15:01   #38
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Who cares..

rl ftw!
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 16:18   #39
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

relaying channels is a valid strategy

not that i support it
its one of the dirty moves in this game
thats like mailing def with false recall messages.
offering planet naps or ship jumper offers
using spies
and more

its part of the game but the part i dont like
i know we used to filter out spies and use them agaisnt the ally they are spying
like send them in a team on a fake mission but the rest sends real and lands
but nowadays ppl have so many connections and there are so many leaks in this game that i dont really give a sh** about it

and yes we are aware that we have some tw** in our rows
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 18:52   #40
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
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am i owed something for this or what?
The bum sex offer (giving not receiving) had an expiry date of 3 months, it's too late now....
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 19:25   #41
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler
Although somewhat sneaky and underhand, is relaying the private channel of an opposition alliance unethical and/or cheating. Discuss
I think the actual question you're asking is flawed - as it leads people to focus on the MEANS by which spying occurs rather than on the spying itself. Relaying is just a more efficient way of having a spy report on what happens in someone else's channel - as such it's moral validity is no different to the morality of having spies in the first place.

Put simply: if having a spy in another alliance report to you is acceptable (morally, ethically or as far as the game rules are concerned) then relaying the channel is also acceptable. The acceptability of a course of action isn't determined by how efficiently you do it. Or is it the case that those arguing that relaying is wrong believe that manually copying/pasting from a channel is acceptable but somehow using a script to do it makes it unacceptable?

Any focus on the ethics of it also needs to distinguish between the ethics of the person doing the relaying - and the ethics of the alliance leadership receiving the relay. It is entirely possible to argue a case that in some instances the relayer is ethically challenged whereas there is no such issue with the alliance receiving the relay.

There are also two types of spies (an issue Mazz referred to earlier). There's the dedicated spies - who enter the target alliance purely to assist the alliance they work for - and then there's the sell-outs (who usually offer to relay in return for a planet nap). Personally I've always tried to minimise any dealings with the second category - as they're unreliable and have already demonstrated their untrustworthiness.

Spies have, in my opinion, been an acceptable part of PA since very early on. Aside from the fact that it would be impossible to prevent or legislate against spying I believe it to be an integral part of the game. Spying definitely isn't against the rules of the game - hence spying can't, itself, be cheating.

Is spying ethical? Well PA is (or is supposed to be) a war game. Is war ethical? The entire game is designed for players to carry out actions which would be considered unethical in the real world - hence the total stupidity of the RL reference by an earlier poster. Is it ethical to attack other players and steal their roids/ships just out of greed? Is it ethical to attack others just because their fleet setup compared to your own makes it profitable to do so? The whole "ethics" issue has been grossly misinterpreted by many of the posters in this thread.

The only place I see any possible "ethical" failing is where someone in an alliance betrays that alliance for THEIR OWN personal benefit - i.e. the turn-coat type of spy. And whether that's unethical or not would depend on whether you viewed PA a primarily a team game or a solo game. Alliances spying on other alliances is an acceptable tactic - and hence real world "ethics" have no relevance in this GAME.

And as relaying is just a more efficient means of manual copy/paste spying all of the same conclusons about its morality apply.

I would note that hacking into an irc network (including stealing someone else's P password) is an entirely seperate issue. Not only is the ethics of that dubious it's also a criminal offence in many countries (including the UK). Similarly, using someone else's P identity (even with their permission) MAY, depending on the circumstances, be a criminal act. And of course any criminal act is certain to be defined as cheating by PA team.



EDIT: For the tl;dr crowd
CN: The ethics of an action in the game can only be judged within the ethical framework of the game itself - not by trying to apply RL ethics to one element of the game taken in isolation. Accordingly, in a game where the entire premise of the game is warfare - and where information is a commodity - spying is an entirely legitmate and acceptable activity. Relaying is just a means of spying and so is also perfectly fine.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 21:01   #42
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

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Originally Posted by jt25man
Relay bots are part of the dark side. Once you cross that line and have sold out, there's no going back.

The issue is more along the lines of how pathetic is it, rather than is it ok. Most people are going to say it's ok becuase they're already doing it, or have done it in the past. It's only not ok when someone does it to them.

Edit: I'll agree with The Real Arfy, and add that the people who do it just to get an upper hand, or possibly out of vengeance, really need to get a life.
It isnt any more pathetic than playing this game in the first place or posting on these forums.

Spying and relaying are completely appropriate in a war game. I often wonder why some people play a war game and then whine when people use ruthless tactics. In a game based on killing and stealing, spying is hardly low.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 21:24   #43
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
It isnt any more pathetic than playing this game in the first place or posting on these forums.
Yes, there's a lot of people that seriously need to get a real life.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 22:10   #44
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

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Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid
lots of text
well earlier ppl actually was mainly working for and with the allie they was in. now every twat and his m8 spies on their allie to give info the an other one. so if you cant trust your m8s or in this matter you can actually count on that all info are leaked so...

allies are about to die and with them ofc the game
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 22:13   #45
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Allies were spying on each other since round one. Your point doesn't follow.
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 22:21   #46
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Red face Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

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Originally Posted by jt25man
Yes, there's a lot of people that seriously need to get a real life.
Every one has a life, why do you say they need to get a real life? They have to get a life like you say they must have? Everyone has a other definition of life and so do you. If people want to sit 24/7 behind there computer who are you to tell them not to do that, its there life isnt it?

I play alot of game, should i get a real life to then? I have a life, go to college have friends, family but there is no one on the internet that could check if what i say is true. I love playing games, and im not the only one i am sure.

For example 6 million people play WoW im sure 100.000 people play more then 100-150 hours a week, should they all get a real life? They have a life else they would be dead dont you think.

Its in our nature to be stronger then someone else, in some cases this means doing stuff you guys are talking about. In WW2 do you think they didnt do stuff like that? Spying, militia, every change of information can win a battle so why not use it in this game when information is on IRC to grasp.

Always the same every where, people like to be fair and unfair. At work people suck up to the boss to get better jobs, at school people cheat to pass the test.

My point is, life is fair and unfair. What you think of life is something else someone else thinks about life. People died to get even the smallest information, information in a strategie game makes that one little advantedge of winning a battle.

This is just my opinion. Keep it cool
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Unread 15 Nov 2006, 22:30   #47
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Alliance channel relaying is a load of fun, but pretty pointless really unless it's command channels, as all (decent) alliances work on the assumption they have spies in their member channels anyway (a kind of pre-emptive damage limitation), which means there is rarely anything of real value in the alliance channel anyway.

If an alliance knows it's channel is being relayed, then that alliance can have a great deal of fun also. The whole information/misinformation scenario gives more depth and interest to the social side of the game, which is the part that has kept the game going. From an honest, honour-bound gentlemans point of view, relaying is probably immoral, but how many honest, honour-bound gentlemen would play a war-game for the (let's face it: sadistic) fun of it. Ultimately, it makes the game more interesting and adds a dimension that doesn't rely on having the most active members, the most fleets or the most experience. Surely, this can only be a good thing from the perspective of making the game more interesting.
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Unread 16 Nov 2006, 09:31   #48
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

i like knowing when to launch my co.
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Unread 16 Nov 2006, 18:51   #49
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
Every one has a life, why do you say they need to get a real life? They have to get a life like you say they must have? Everyone has a other definition of life and so do you. If people want to sit 24/7 behind there computer who are you to tell them not to do that, its there life isnt it?
Sitting in front of a computer 24/7 may be a life choice, but how does it benefit society to have a bunch of people who's only contribution is that their good at online games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
I play alot of game, should i get a real life to then? I have a life, go to college have friends, family but there is no one on the internet that could check if what i say is true. I love playing games, and im not the only one i am sure.
If this is true about college and friends, then you have a real life, so what do you care?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
For example 6 million people play WoW im sure 100.000 people play more then 100-150 hours a week, should they all get a real life? They have a life else they would be dead dont you think.
Absolutely, they need to get a real life if they spend 100 hours on WoW in a week. I'm addicted to that game, but I limit myself to about 2-3 hours a day, and not even every day. I doubt many pull off 150 given that there's only 168 hours in a week leaving them with 18 for sleeping (that's a little over 2 hours a night).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
Its in our nature to be stronger then someone else, in some cases this means doing stuff you guys are talking about. In WW2 do you think they didnt do stuff like that? Spying, militia, every change of information can win a battle so why not use it in this game when information is on IRC to grasp.
What does spying during WW2 have to do with Planetarion tactics? Spying in an actual real life war is much more serious and deadly than spying on an internet game who half the people do it just for fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
Always the same every where, people like to be fair and unfair. At work people suck up to the boss to get better jobs, at school people cheat to pass the test.
So are you saying that it's fair to cheat on a test to pass it? I've always considered that immoral and the people who feel the need to cheat to pass a test seriously need to get a swift kick in the ass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
My point is, life is fair and unfair. What you think of life is something else someone else thinks about life. People died to get even the smallest information, information in a strategie game makes that one little advantedge of winning a battle.
As far as I know, not one person has died trying to get information or spying during Planetarion. Comparing people who've died in real battles to people spying on an internet game in my opinion is insulting to those who did actually die in real life.
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Unread 16 Nov 2006, 19:05   #50
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Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?

You spend alot of time posting and playing a game to claim you have a so called life, basically stop playing the 'i have a life' trump card because noone really gives a ****

Your preeching to a crowd that really doesnt care. ty <3
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