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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 12:21   #1
mathematician
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PDS as a construction

ok the main old argument against pds is that they can't run. But how about this:

- PDS are constructions
- there is a PDS type for each target class
- PDS fire first and destroy 0.5% (maybe even 1%) of all attacking ships of their target class.

- yes, pds are scaleable. if someone attacks with a large ("bash") fleet, he/she will lose more than if he/she attacks with a small ("fair") fleet.

- yes, pds still can't run. But the difference to previous rounds with pds is that now a special ship (SK) will be needed to attack them and those ships have low efficiency.
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 12:39   #2
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Re: PDS as a construction

I'm sorry to say I don't like it.

It adds complication without adding much to the game and it's a nightmare to balance.

1)Does it shoot before or after SKs? Before = larger planetscan be ubered. You need major teamups to hit them and these are guaranteed to take major losses. If they shoot after SKs, there is now an incentive to build SKs and hit smaller planets that build them, effectively increasing bashing and with no way to run your constructions.

2) is there a limit to how many you can build? If it shoots before SKs and has no limit, larger planets can become effectively immune to incs.

3) Cloakers gain a major advantage with their pod-fakes as they risk far less.
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 13:00   #3
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Re: PDS as a construction

this has been suggested before (tho takes some finding so I am not surprised it has come up again, as it was in the middle of the r25 stats discussion)

I personally think its quite a good idea, so long as they dont destroy much it is not much of a problem, and provides an effective end to the problem of cathaar killships.
I am not certain how you are intending them to work, are U meaning that for each pds construction targeting a particular class you build you destroy 0.5% of that class... so if U build 10 targeting fr U automatically destroy 5%? if so that is probably overpowered as that would mean you could just build pds and as gate says become pretty much invulnerable... particularly as it means U can target areas where your fleet is weak. (though this does have a very nice side effect of preventing bashing... you cant send many more ships than you need because there will automatically be more losses, so attempting a massive teamup to make sure U get through will not be particularly cost effective)
I think it should they should fire based on the normal guns/damage system as this would be much easier to be balanced, this also takes away Gate's objection about fakes - as the amount of damage would be set, tho the downside is that it takes away a tactic for xans... afterall it would make sense for everyone to build enough pds to prevent xan fakes.
The pds would be easier to balance if the maximum number of constructions remains the same meaning that the pds could only be built at the cost of not building other things.
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 16:59   #4
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Re: PDS as a construction

I've suggested this same basic idea before. The fundamental argument against it is it will lead to a ton more SKs in the game, leading to lots of folks getting their constructions bashed, and therefor all running home to mommy crying and quitting PA. My basic response is this is a war game, what do you expect? The majority opinion in PA however seems to have decided that killing structures is tantamount to a war crime and should be discouraged at all costs. So while I don't think this is a bad idea, I seriously doubt it will ever be considered.
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 17:14   #5
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Re: PDS as a construction

back in the round 25 stats discussion I thought that it would be a good idea precicely because it would give SKs something worth doing, however asc came but with building loads of disds during the round and brought about the wide spread use of SK's anyway.

As much as I hate SKs myself I am still of the opinion that there should be better use for them. Atm ppl probably hate them because often there is no reason at all to use SKs on someone, if you have pds you provide that reason making an attack by SKs a perfectly acceptable response.
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 18:21   #6
Monroe
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Re: PDS as a construction

The other major argument against this is that there are two groups of people who predominantly built PDS in the past. One was extremely large players and the other tends to be newbies. The large players would make themselves basically unhittable and the small players would have "ships" that couldn't run and so would get bashed to pieces. Therefor it was argued that PDS were a bad thing because mostly it led to newbies making bad investments in ships that couldn't run (if you recall PDS were considered ships in the past).

Personally I don't think this argument holds much weight when PDS are structures. Since new and old players alike will have structures regardless allowing them to build defensive structures, including shields as well as PDSs, seems to make a lot of sense. Sure there will be some bashing, but as constructions don't hold value it is not like planets will be completely destroyed as they were in the past when they lost a ton of value when their PDS were wiped out.
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 18:23   #7
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Re: PDS as a construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
1)Does it shoot before or after SKs? Before = larger planetscan be ubered. You need major teamups to hit them and these are guaranteed to take major losses. If they shoot after SKs, there is now an incentive to build SKs and hit smaller planets that build them, effectively increasing bashing and with no way to run your constructions.

2) is there a limit to how many you can build? If it shoots before SKs and has no limit, larger planets can become effectively immune to incs.

3) Cloakers gain a major advantage with their pod-fakes as they risk far less.
1-2) They would be limited by the construction limit just like every other construct. I would also have them fire simultaneous with SKs and with a low efficiency verses SKs (I'd do this by jacking up SK armor). That way SKs and PDS would bash away at each other with low efficiency, making them expensive for both sides.

3) Can you explain this one to me? How do they gain an advantage when SKs are strictly NOT cloaked. If the attacker sent SKs then he probably sent a real fleet, if he sent just pods, then they die on the PDS no big deal. In that sense it would potentially be harder to send fake attacks, not easier.
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 18:35   #8
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Re: PDS as a construction

Go play simplanet somewhere else.
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