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Unread 20 Jul 2008, 16:08   #1
smith-
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New Quest Structure

First let me say this:

Can we please not have to build a Wave Amplifier before we can make a scan? That's redundant at best. Wave Amplifiers are built en-masse to scan planets who've built Wave Distorters. As long as you have an equal amount of Amplifiers to, or more than, a planet's Distorters, you can scan them. So technically with 0 Amplifiers you should be able to scan planets with 0 Distorters.

Secondly:

This, I fear, is going to turn in to another Bikeshed discussion. So yes, there's probably lots of different ways of doing it; yes, I'm sure you have your own thoughts on how it could be done. I'd ask you to bear in mind though that the whole point of quests is to teach newer individuals how to play the game. It doesn't make sense that we should leave them at 'Beginner' level, and not advise them further.

Finally:

Really, the manual at the moment is there to provide formulae to the more 'invested' player for calculations of how to maximise their own score. If we were to include Manual-esque hints as to why they're being asked to do each quest, their understanding of the game will be improved. That is, ultimately, what we're hoping for, right?

Code:
Quest: Beginner

ID	Name			Mission						Reward
1.	Initiate Asteroids	Gain 3 of Each Asteroid				Gain 1000 of Each Resource
- Initiating Asteroids is the easiest way of gaining resources. Initiate 3 of each Asteroid and receive a bonus.
2.	Send Message		Message 1:1:1					Gain 1 of Each Asteroid
- Communicating with your fellow player is vital to your success. Test the messaging system now, so you know how to use it when you need to.
3.	Vote for GC		Vote for GC					Gain 10 XP
- Working together as a galaxy will help you in the long run. Chose somebody who you'd like to lead your gal to success.	
4.	Get Busy		Set your population settings			Gain 1 of Each Asteroid
- Your people await instruction. Decide now where your priorities lie, you can change it as often as you like so don't be worried about making mistakes!
5.	Join Alliance!		Alliance Action: Apply for/Create an alliance	Gain 15 XP
- An Alliance is a good way of making friends, participating in attacks and sharing defence. The ingame alliance system will come in useful later on.
6.	Say Hello		Post on a Galaxy forum				Gain 1 of Each Asteroid
- Dont sit back, make your presence known! If you speak to people, they'll be more inclined to help you :)
7.	Asteroid Technology	Research Heavy Cargo Transfers I		Gain 5000 of Each Resource
- Some people end up with thousands of Asteroids to mine. Start with this small step, and you'll be running the road to victory in no time.
8.	Ships 			Research Fighter Class Hulls			Gain 20 XP
- This is a war game. The chances are that somebody will try and steal the Asteroids you've initiated. Research Fighter Class Hulls as a starting point, so that when you have the required factories, you can build ships to defend your planet!
9.	Ship Factory		Build 1 Factory of any type			Gain 10000 of Each Resource
- You may not want to build Fighters or Corvettes, so pick a factory that suits you. Bear in mind though, if you haven't done the relevent research, a factory may well sit dormant until you have!
10.	Security		Build 1 Security Centre constructions		Gain 15000 of Each Resource
- Building a Security Center will help protect you against Covert Operations. Build one now, or you could suffer sooner rather than later.



Quest: Intermediate

ID	Name			Mission						Reward
1.	Explore Space		Send a fleet to Defend in-galaxy		Research Jumpgate
- Defending your galaxy mates is the best way of getting them to help you. Test the defense system now, so that when your gal receives incoming, you'll know what to do.
2.	Industrial Sabotage	Try to set a planet's research back 5%		Gain 3 of Each Asteroid
- This is a sneaky one. When trying to get the edge over another planet, you want to develop your technology quicker than anyone else. Use Covert Operations wisely - if it doesn't work, people will know you've tried it!
3.	Information Overload	Scan a planet's resources			Research Surface Analysis Scans
- When you attack a planet, he may well try and build ships to protect himself against you. Try a planet scan now, and see the amount of resources they have. It will also show you if they're already building ships, and how much is being spent on them. Pay close attention to this, it could save you a lot of score.
4.	Get Organised		Choose a style of Government			Gain 20000 of Each Resource
- Each style of Goverment has it's advantages, depending on how you're trying to play. If you want to focus on Covert Operations, chose the goverment that gives you the best Stealth bonus, for example.
5.	Reinforcements!		Defend a member of the same alliance		Gain 100 XP
- An Alliance is your first line of defense against enemy ships. Any defense you send/receive to/from an alliance member will have an ETA reduction of 1, so you have more time to organise defense. You'll not get any defense though, if you're not willing to defend anybody else!
6.	Slight of Hand		Launch a fake attack				Gain 150 XP
- Fake Attacks can be a very useful trick if used properly. You may want to trick somebody into defending a Fake Attack, so that you can land a real fleet. Try launching a Fake Attack now, and notice the difference on your Missions page
7.	Scientifically Minded	Build 1 Research Laboratory construction	Gain 25000 of Each Resource
- The more Research you do, the longer new Researches will take. Build a Research Center now so you can research the more advanced technologies faster.
8.	Fair Trade		Trade 10000 resources with the galaxy fund	Gain 3 of Each Asteroid
- Unforunately even with the best planning in the world, you'll not always have the exact amount of each resource you need for the things you're spending them on. Practice trading now, but make sure you remember there's a 5% tax on Galaxy Fund transactions, and 25% on Universe Fund trades!
9.	Come Together		Report a galaxy mate's incoming			Gain 200 XP
- Letting your alliance know you have incoming will let them know you have defense. Because you can't be around all the time, you'll have to rely on other people to report your incoming when you're not online. Report a galaxy mate's incoming for a small one-off bonus.
10. 	Behind Closed Doors	Build 1 Wave Distorer construction		Gain 200 XP
- Before somebody will attack you, they will usually try to collect information on your planet by scanning you. Wave Distorters are the only way to stop this happening. Build your first now for a small bonus, but as time goes on you'll need more of these as other people build more Amplifiers.
Edit: Sorry for the presentation, hopefully it's clear enough.

Last edited by smith-; 20 Jul 2008 at 16:13. Reason: sidenote added
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Unread 20 Jul 2008, 16:24   #2
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Re: New Quest Structure

while I would like the quests to be more useful and for there to be more of them this looks like it could be forcing you down one path too much... for example it forces U to build a disdorter than not everyone will want (tho I note the building any type of factory would get rid of the useless factory etd ended up with this round), and more significantly what are ppl who are not in an alliance to do with the alliance defence option, we should not force everyone to join an alliance to complete the quests (as atm anyone can just apply to an alliance and then withdraw the application).

in short I think the intermediate level needs to be more flexible, tho I have no idea atm how to do it, perhaps several branches should be provided depending on what way a player wishes to go in terms of constructions?

but on the whole I agree that the concept of quests that we have is good but not in its current state nearly as helpful to new players as it should be, and as U say this should be fixed.
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Unread 20 Jul 2008, 17:46   #3
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Re: New Quest Structure

Glad to see people putting thought into quests...

I think I'd prefer branching quest trees if possible. Covops, scan & war, for example.
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Unread 20 Jul 2008, 18:55   #4
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Re: New Quest Structure

I would like to see the linearity of the quest tree dropped completely, I see no reason why I should be unable to to the tenth quest before the first one, if I so wish. Otherwise I'm in total agreement with the OP.
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 00:08   #5
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Re: New Quest Structure

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I would like to see the linearity of the quest tree dropped completely, I see no reason why I should be unable to to the tenth quest before the first one, if I so wish. Otherwise I'm in total agreement with the OP.
Just thought this whilst reading the post above urs. Agreed totally. Rewards shud be attained as u complete the quest. Once u complete all quests the next "block" of quests is unlocked. Would make more sense. I do like the idea of having more levels of quests tho, it really would give people a better feel for the game. Nice suggestions imo.
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 06:26   #6
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Re: New Quest Structure

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Originally Posted by Gate View Post
Glad to see people putting thought into quests...

I think I'd prefer branching quest trees if possible. Covops, scan & war, for example.
I think this is a very good idea, reminds me of the old War/Science choices
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 10:08   #7
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Re: New Quest Structure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
Glad to see people putting thought into quests...

I think I'd prefer branching quest trees if possible. Covops, scan & war, for example.
covops should be removed totally.

Other than that, I agree.
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Unread 21 Jul 2008, 21:48   #8
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Re: New Quest Structure

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covops should be removed totally.

Other than that, I agree.
Ship blowing is a phenominally useful tool & various other covops are also useful.

Blowing up asteroids is kind of worthless though. Unless I missed something, I'd drop it.
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Unread 22 Jul 2008, 00:53   #9
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Re: New Quest Structure

this would be an improvement of the current quests. However I find that the Government quest comes much too late.
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Unread 22 Jul 2008, 01:05   #10
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Re: New Quest Structure

When linearity is (finally) abandoned, that shouldn't be as much of a problem, although one might opt to make it part of the beginner quests.
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Unread 22 Jul 2008, 15:41   #11
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Re: New Quest Structure

I agree with Mzyxptlk, in order for my suggestion to have any kind of benefit, we need to do away with the 'tree' like structure of the quests. The quests do not all go hand in hand with each other, and so it shouldn't be implied that there is a 'set' way in which you're meant to play the game.

And to booji - by removing the linearity of the quests as Mzyxotlk put it, you wouldn't technically have to do any of the quests. But by also giving a bit of detail as to why the quests are being set, it's giving the new player some idea as to why he would need a Distorer (for example), should he choose to take on that particular quest.
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Unread 22 Jul 2008, 19:50   #12
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Re: New Quest Structure

I like it, easy to implement, loses the light factory for ETD, and above all understandable.

Some of the details might have to be tweaked but that's fine. A slight change I would suggest is to the first quest. Rather than initiate 3 of each roid it should be at least 3 of each roid.
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Unread 6 Aug 2008, 10:06   #13
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Re: New Quest Structure

Out of interest what would everyone have as the advanced quests?

I would have:
Steal roids and ships
Steal 2 million bombers
Steal Golden Roids (do they exsit?)
make a netgamers account
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Unread 6 Aug 2008, 10:37   #14
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Re: New Quest Structure

stealing ships would be difficult when most races cant steal
and incorperating signing up a netgamers account would also be difficult because it is external, it would require someone to match netgamers accounts with pa accounts (which some ppl dont want anyway) and could not easily be done automatically.
There might however be certain advantages to having signing up for a netgamers account more built into the game as it might 1, eliminate some secrecy by making it more difficult to fake nick and 2, persuade more new players of the importance of trying IRC to get on in pa.

I would agree with having stealing roids as one.
I would also have being accepted into an alliance (atm for the beginners quests U just need to apply).
Sending a defence on the same tick as an incoming attack - not sure if this could be made into a 'useful' def with ships that target the inc (would be easiest ingal, but I dont see any reason to limit it).


however as already mentioned quest branches depending on what way you wish to play would be the way to go. This would largely make redundant any attempts to come up with advanced quests that could be used by everyone.
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Unread 6 Aug 2008, 11:28   #15
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Re: New Quest Structure

why not linearity for the begginer quests? Since to be fair start of round every choice is somewhat linear / the same for everyone unless you are specifically a scanner. You can then have intermediate/advanced quests to be done in any order you want they are just a list with possible xp/resource bonuses for doing them.

Problem would be in that some people may feel hard done by if they cant be arsed to do the quests/feel they dont need to do them as part of their game whilst others are getting xp/res for free.
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Unread 6 Aug 2008, 12:04   #16
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Re: New Quest Structure

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Originally Posted by zokka View Post
Steal 2 million bombers
I think you're confusing havoc with the actual round.
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Unread 6 Aug 2008, 12:10   #17
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Re: New Quest Structure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
why not linearity for the begginer quests? Since to be fair start of round every choice is somewhat linear / the same for everyone unless you are specifically a scanner. You can then have intermediate/advanced quests to be done in any order you want they are just a list with possible xp/resource bonuses for doing them.
Having just looked over the beginner quests in smith's post, I agree. The order is entirely logical, and by changing "build fighter factory" to "build any factory" you avoid any issues with races without fi/co roiding fleets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
Problem would be in that some people may feel hard done by if they cant be arsed to do the quests/feel they dont need to do them as part of their game whilst others are getting xp/res for free.
This really has become quite irrelevant. The diversity this game had a while back has pretty much been killed. XP whoring has become really quite pointless and distwhoring has died thanks to unlimited FCs. Ignoring the initial research rush (tt or hulls?), we're back at the good old "scans or value" choice. In that light, everyone choosing value will have equal opportunity to do quests.
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Unread 6 Aug 2008, 13:35   #18
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Re: New Quest Structure

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make a netgamers account
This is probably the best suggestion that has ever been made as regards the quest system.

There are a few kinks in the potential system I can think of but nothing important. Opinions?
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Unread 6 Aug 2008, 14:34   #19
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Re: New Quest Structure

OMAC should buy netgamers and use it for all it's web-based games. Once it owned netgamers, it could fully implement it into the game, and provide proper support to new players in helping them get in to IRC. Just as a side thought.

At the moment, 'making a netgamers account' could only be enforceable to the extent of 'click this link'. There'd be no way of ensuring the person completed the signup process, and therefore no way of ensuring that newer players actually became involved in that part of the meta-game (since everybody else is throwing that word around now).

All that particular 'quest' would do would be rewarding somebody for clicking a link, and that's a bit too spaceminer-esque for my taste.
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Unread 6 Aug 2008, 14:44   #20
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Re: New Quest Structure

I'm sure PA and netgamers can co-operate in some way to make it workable.
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Unread 26 Jun 2009, 19:08   #21
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Re: New Quest Structure

ok i know this is an old thread but i wanted to start the discussion again about the quests. I really like the new quests at the moment, them being non-linear and at same time challenging up to the best ranked players till round-end. The only thing that bothers me is the fact that theres not a single reward to be gained outside the first 2 'easiest' quests.

I understand the idea behind it, the reward itself is incorporated in the quest itself (for example: steal 10 roids from another planet is a reward on its own) but why would it be a quest if so? I really dont see the use of having quests to finish if theres not even a small reward in place? For all i know, these quests were designed for new players to get a better understanding of the game , its different aspects and the goals one should focus on

But if you want a new player to explore the depths of these quests and get an understanding as to why they are being pushed to do certain things, you will want to have them actually use it! And this is where my suggestion comes in:

Why not give a small xp bonus per quest and a slightly bigger one if you manage to complete the whole section? I find the 200 xp for beginner and galaxy/allaince setup to be perfect. We could use like 100 xp per quest and 500 xp upon completing a whole branch, or figures that go up per branch, im sure someone could work that out. These figures hardly make a big difference on the long run in rankings, but it would at least give players a reason to look into it
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Unread 26 Jun 2009, 19:24   #22
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Re: New Quest Structure

In a while, when everyone has one main account they login with on forums/game (every round), the reward could be a record kept of each Quest completed, making it a challenge of who completed the most quests (pele for #1 all time scanner!).

As for now, like you pointed out already, most of them are their own reward.
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Unread 26 Jun 2009, 20:02   #23
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Re: New Quest Structure

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
In a while, when everyone has one main account they login with on forums/game (every round), the reward could be a record kept of each Quest completed, making it a challenge of who completed the most quests (pele for #1 all time scanner!).

As for now, like you pointed out already, most of them are their own reward.
i forgot to mention the ego part that comes with it indeed, thanks for pointing that out patrikc. Still, even though i said that most of them are their own reward, i see no reason why to put a quest to it? Again, in my view quests are designed for a few reasons, main one being a practical playing-guide stretching out for an entire round, to give guidance to somewhat new players.

In order to give those goals the most potential, i still dont understand why theres not a single reward linked to it.
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