User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Strategic Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 12 Apr 2009, 17:02   #251
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: R31 shipstats

I'm thinking of dropping the xand CR and removing the wraith.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Apr 2009, 20:00   #252
[JungleMuffin]
Registered User
Apple Hunt Champion, Super Hacky Sack Champion
 
[JungleMuffin]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In bed with your mum.
Posts: 664
[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about
Re: R31 shipstats

Hmmm reaons?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?

Last edited by [JungleMuffin]; 12 Apr 2009 at 20:10.
[JungleMuffin] is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Apr 2009, 21:26   #253
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R31 shipstats

I imagine the ones that killerbee and I posted at the end of the previous page:
difficulty of balancing 3 xan attack fleets against each other (let alone others).
xan gains more out of having extra pod classes than the other races due to their extra effectiveness at fakes.
the wraith was a bit of a monster
the two cr with single target on cr and bs with one very low init and one pretty high seems very artificial and odd... there may be more reasons feel free to post them if you think of more
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Apr 2009, 21:56   #254
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: R31 shipstats

Is it just me or are you continuously just making xan worse and worse...?
Xan was underpowered last round and the way this is headed I wonder if the same might happen again.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Apr 2009, 22:22   #255
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R31 shipstats

I dont think there was/is any intention to make xan more underpowered, my point was that with 3 different xan attack classes one of the three will almost inevitably be underpowered (although in my view the underpowered one is the fr not the cr).
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Apr 2009, 22:25   #256
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: R31 shipstats

Yeah well, first the brigand got introduced to stop xan fi(admittedly i proposed this before i changed my mind - it now is removed), then people want to make the bomber weaker(higher init etc) and now their cr is going to be removed(are they going to get some other class of ships introduced or is just the pod getting removed?).

By all means I dont want Xan to be overpowered but I dont think they are too good now..
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Apr 2009, 22:31   #257
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R31 shipstats

I personally dont want the bomber made any weaker, and as I have pointed out it is pretty weak compared to its equivilant in the last two rounds. However I do agree that xan should be pretty vulnerable to cr/bs, the problem comes when its weak against other things too. The xan fr is very weak against terran fr, the fi/co have very low D/C to compensate for their good init however they need to be split between fi and co making you wide open to cat co etc

I especially dont want it as I had rather wanted to play xan for once but its atm not looking too good an option.

I have to admit that I am someone who has never liked the xan cr/bs (you can blame asc round 28 and the massed waves of xan bs the rest of us got inc all round for that )

look back at passed round's threads and you will see that killerbee is always against xan no matter how weak they are looking he want them weaker

EDIT: while im at it Gate, I see you have gone against the idea of a cat fr class killship leaving the mantis there simply for decoration, any reason why? - tho I realise that this would be completely against the less anti cr/bs that kb wants on the fr/de level, is this your reason?
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.

Last edited by booji; 12 Apr 2009 at 22:52.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Apr 2009, 22:34   #258
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: R31 shipstats

You dont say.....
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Apr 2009, 23:14   #259
Zotnam
Over the moon
Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Sperm Wars Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Deeeeenmark
Posts: 547
Zotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant future
Re: R31 shipstats

isilx to make pro xan stats next round plx.

I did alot of theorycrafting with others before starting last round to have the best bp combo possible and tbh things didn't quite turn out as we had expected. We quickly wrote off the cutlass, pillagers potential was missed, zik fr looked at as an attack class, terran cr percieved stronger than they turned out etc..

Point being its (from a player pov) much easier to figure out what's good and what isn't as the round goes on and you see what the uni is throwing at you while before the round ideally, 3-4 experienced people have been sitting down continuesly to discuss how the stats could be mixed to make for an interesting round. I do enjoy the open policy about stats that currently excists. I fear it's more the lack of a suitable group who is willing to work on the stats than an actual conscious choice from pa team. Certainly former successfull stats sets have not usually had a 6 page forum topic with (deranged) people discussing possible game wide impacts with a combined knowlegde in the field likened to the density of aerogel
__________________
Golan - Ascendancy

Planets.
Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)

Those damn emp races..
Zotnam is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Apr 2009, 23:41   #260
Thatcher
VtS killerbee
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 202
Thatcher is a jewel in the roughThatcher is a jewel in the roughThatcher is a jewel in the rough
Re: R31 shipstats

iam not anti xan, i just dont want overpowered xan, it is far far easier to overpower xan than it is to underpower them, stats and beta dont take into account the advantages of cloaked ships.

furthermore i dont see why anyone wants pro xan stats, afterall xan players have real problems taking xan targets, so therefore:
better xan stats = more xan planets = worse target selection for xan players

so as far as iam concerned balanced stats ftw! unless i missed it noone has tried to give an arguement why xan have 3 pod classes and zik only have 2?
__________________
ReBorn DC, Instinct, Silver DC, Legion
TGV, xVx, Jenova BC, Vision BC, ASS BC

Easy Company - Founder

"Train Hard, Fight Easy"
Thatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 04:48   #261
[JungleMuffin]
Registered User
Apple Hunt Champion, Super Hacky Sack Champion
 
[JungleMuffin]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In bed with your mum.
Posts: 664
[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatcher View Post
furthermore i dont see why anyone wants pro xan stats, afterall xan players have real problems taking xan targets, so therefore:
better xan stats = more xan planets = worse target selection for xan players
That has to be the worse use of logic i have ever seen and i mean ever. :/ Ive gone through it a good 15 times now, and each time it gets worse.

I dont see why anyone would eat chocolate cake, cos fat kids cant beat up fat kids, therefore: better chocolate cake = more fat kids = less good chocolate cake?

Xan dont need good target selection, they can send a chunk of pods at any planet in the universe and convince half of them to give you their roids for lolfree.

How about if you put a laxative in the chocolate cake, which only targets fat kids, so when one fat kid wants a piece of cake, it cant eat it, because it wont be a fat kid no more, and then the whales will climb out of the ocean and roll up joints, and then that is proof about human evolution.

WHAT_LE_F00K

Id err on the side of caution with xan fleets. You can "under" (heh) power them as much as you like, but ultimately theyre still going to be one of the better races to play, while if theyre over powered, it can pretty much make the round very retarded, very fast.

In previous rounds ive don very very well with xan, and considering i really dont want to play them this rd, i cant find a reason to say no to that xan FI/CO fleet + bomber fleet D:.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatcher View Post
unless i missed it noone has tried to give an arguement why xan have 3 pod classes and zik only have 2?
Zik_steal_ships.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?
[JungleMuffin] is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 06:32   #262
Thatcher
VtS killerbee
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 202
Thatcher is a jewel in the roughThatcher is a jewel in the roughThatcher is a jewel in the rough
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
EDIT: Zik FI/CO is a bad bad bad idea IMO. I tried it in my first set of stats, and it was horrendous - ziks were overpowered.
zik steal ships? i have been playing this game since 1999 and remember when zik were introduced, but i never knew they steal? really? are you sure jm?

taken to its extreme, if 'zik steal ships' was an arguement for not giving zik co/fi pods then why give them any pods at all, afterall they can steal them, so stop coming up with that, it isnt the reason and gate makes it clear.

if your xan and you go around hitting other xan either your 'special', in a teamup or your sending fake and pretty easy to stop, xan planets make horrible targets for other xan.

in a bizzare twist after suggesting that "better xan stats" does not equal "more xan planets" you then state you would play xan on the basis of these stats despite not wanting to this round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
considering i really dont want to play them this rd, i cant find a reason to say no to that xan FI/CO fleet + bomber fleet D:.
__________________
ReBorn DC, Instinct, Silver DC, Legion
TGV, xVx, Jenova BC, Vision BC, ASS BC

Easy Company - Founder

"Train Hard, Fight Easy"

Last edited by Thatcher; 13 Apr 2009 at 06:41.
Thatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 07:19   #263
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: R31 shipstats

To be fair Gate, the one time I remember zik having a co pod(I think it was round 22) they also had a init 4 CO ship shooting CO-FR-DE. Could have something to do with that
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 07:38   #264
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotnam View Post
isilx to make pro xan stats next round plx.
Heh, I am not any more interested in xan being too good than most others(i hate playing in a xan dominated universe), but the fact now is, imo, that xan is not TOO GOOD and shouldnt be made worse than it is now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotnam View Post

Point being its (from a player pov) much easier to figure out what's good and what isn't as the round goes on and you see what the uni is throwing at you while before the round
I totally agree, I experienced the same 'problem' as you last round overestimating terran CR f.ex

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotnam View Post
I do enjoy the open policy about stats that currently excists. I fear it's more the lack of a suitable group who is willing to work on the stats than an actual conscious choice from pa team. Certainly former successfull stats sets have not usually had a 6 page forum topic with (deranged) people discussing possible game wide impacts with a combined knowlegde in the field likened to the density of aerogel
Well, say what you want but IMO the stats look better after '6 pages of discussion by deranged people without any knowledge of the game' than they did beforehand. MANY rounds have had a thread discussing next rounds stats here on the strategy forum, and usually it does not make the stats worse off. And I agree that everyone shouldn't have their say in stats, but having given my input to pretty much every set of stats for as long as i can recall(atleast 10 rounds or something), I KNOW that it is helpful for the statsmakers to get some input from other players.
Add to this that Gate is not on irc(as far as I have gathered), the forums pretty much is the place one has to voice his opinion.

And its easy for you to sit and criticise, but why don't you actually come with some SUGGESTIONS and be PROACTIVE and say what changes you think should be instated, as I am sure people are willing to listen to well formulated arguments(I am atleast),instead of saying the people trying to voice their opinion are stupid and dont know anything about the game.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 11:46   #265
HaNzI
Apprime Troll HC
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 857
HaNzI has a spectacular aura aboutHaNzI has a spectacular aura aboutHaNzI has a spectacular aura about
Re: R31 shipstats

Being a xan player in round 30, i can say that even though most people said xan were pretty shit, they were actually quite good, depending on how they were played.

I consequently had to teamup with both cutlass and emp ships with my xan fi/co. I quickly understood that the vsharrak was worthless, even though they flakked my pods. So i chose to start building pulsars, and do larger teamups on the largest planets available.
I think i had the only decent pulsarsfleet in the universe!

This will always be the case with xan. If they are underpowered on the paper, their ability to teamup with superior firepower and be cloaked, far overcomes the numbers on the sheet.
Dont spent so much time on making them able to get solo roids against anyone, rather make them easy to teamup with.
HaNzI is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 11:51   #266
Zotnam
Over the moon
Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Sperm Wars Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Deeeeenmark
Posts: 547
Zotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant future
Re: R31 shipstats

Because its like I said, this whole process should be done differently, gate not being on irc just underlines that If I remember correctly from other rounds appoc can also go in and overrule changes made by whoever is making stats..

Tbh, I haven't been involved much in stats making ever so I don't feel qualified to comment on a game wide scale, I can barely pick a good race for myself most rounds! If this is indeed the primary way Gate gets opinions on the stats I still feel its a flawed process.
__________________
Golan - Ascendancy

Planets.
Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)

Those damn emp races..
Zotnam is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 11:51   #267
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R31 shipstats

in the stats thread we dont tend to talk about teamups, in much the same way that we dont like to talk about defence, it adds in too many other factors. Ofc they were good on teamups, anyone with fi/co was good on teamups last round, and indeed this is often the case simply because of there being less time to defend.

and we also seem to have many people saying they dont like the way that everyone has to do teamups, hence the demands for single targeting.

Also Hanzi while you may be in asc and always have loads of teamup options not everyone is in an alliance, we want those people to actually be able to attack.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.

Last edited by booji; 13 Apr 2009 at 12:12.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 12:38   #268
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: R31 shipstats

What do you plan to do to xan if you remove their CR ships Gate?
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 13:14   #269
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: R31 shipstats

After further thought I don't think I will.

One major fear is a FI/CO dominated round and removing their CR just guarantees there will be far more FI/CO. So I'm gonna leave it for now. Will pop on IRC during the beta, but I'm trying to avoid it because I end up spending hours on it and right now I'm trying to learn my course :/
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 13:17   #270
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R31 shipstats

so no change to the wraith? and if not why not?
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 13:17   #271
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: R31 shipstats

Well with so many fi\co class ships it wouldnt be weird if there was a FI\CO centered round.
However going heavy fi\co (both for xan and ter) leaves you very vulnerable to cr\bs incs so it is a choice you have to make.
Xan FR, Ter FR\DE and Etd FR\DE is sure to be less popular to attack than splitting up fleet more.


edit: IMO making the wraith init higher would be fine, however I dont think spectre\shadow should be made any worse.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 13:59   #272
Thatcher
VtS killerbee
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 202
Thatcher is a jewel in the roughThatcher is a jewel in the roughThatcher is a jewel in the rough
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
After further thought I don't think I will.

One major fear is a FI/CO dominated round and removing their CR just guarantees there will be far more FI/CO. So I'm gonna leave it for now. Will pop on IRC during the beta, but I'm trying to avoid it because I end up spending hours on it and right now I'm trying to learn my course :/

i think exact opposite, e.g. if xan are going to be popular and cr/bs is their weakness then will encourage people to go other races and pick cr/bs to take advantage. wraith is a major possible galaxy defence ship and will make landing fr/de an issue in any galaxy with xans

i know ur stressed with exams mate, iam sure beta will iron this stuff out, but get on irc heh, maybe do a 'stats creators hr'.
__________________
ReBorn DC, Instinct, Silver DC, Legion
TGV, xVx, Jenova BC, Vision BC, ASS BC

Easy Company - Founder

"Train Hard, Fight Easy"

Last edited by Thatcher; 13 Apr 2009 at 14:07.
Thatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 14:29   #273
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: R31 shipstats

Well make the Wraith worse then, dont simply REMOVE the whole class of ships. Its boring if xans HAVE to build bomber and dont have the choice to choose between FR and CR. Make the Wraith init 7 or something.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"

Last edited by isildurx; 13 Apr 2009 at 15:01.
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 16:44   #274
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
Being a xan player in round 30, i can say that even though most people said xan were pretty shit, they were actually quite good, depending on how they were played.

I consequently had to teamup with both cutlass and emp ships with my xan fi/co. I quickly understood that the vsharrak was worthless, even though they flakked my pods. So i chose to start building pulsars, and do larger teamups on the largest planets available.
I think i had the only decent pulsarsfleet in the universe!

This will always be the case with xan. If they are underpowered on the paper, their ability to teamup with superior firepower and be cloaked, far overcomes the numbers on the sheet.
Dont spent so much time on making them able to get solo roids against anyone, rather make them easy to teamup with.
Being a niche player whose planet would have been roided to shit in any other galaxy doesn't make xan a good race last round.

To be honest gate at this point I'd just ignore people's suggestions for changing ships and counter any comparative weaknesses you see by improving efficiencies. Otherwise you'll end up distorting the whole shape of the stats set you want.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 16:56   #275
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: R31 shipstats

Yeah please, just wrap it up.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 19:05   #276
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: R31 shipstats

Set 4, which I would like to be put into a beta. Popped on IRC but appoco wasn't about.

A bit of feedback from beta players would be nice.



A semi-wild thought I had was this:
Convert the EMP targeting from CO/FI to FI/CO. Move cath FI to 2 EMP ships: FR/DE and CO/DE targeting, and make the locust a killer that targets CO/FI. Very different dynamic to cath, not sure what I think. Otherwise only other thought is possibly paladin to BS.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 19:48   #277
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R31 shipstats

overall with current stats I see I dont really have anything left to argue over

with your ideas on cat, do U mean 2 emp ships one fr/de one fi/de otherwise you are hitting low emp res ships with primary target... it would also be leaving the fi only covered by the T2 of the normal ship whereas I assume you want the T1 on co to be covering the un empd class.

Edit: As to my views on it, if you really do mean for it to be co that is empd not fi then it changes little as there is no fi that shoots normal/steal except the locust itself. if you do mean that there is no fi class emp on co then it becomes very difficult to roid with cat fi due to there being alot of co that shoots at fi. Would make a massive difference to teamups, would certainly massively reduce the overall effectiveness of fi/co teams, not sure if this is good or bad it would certainly reduce the likelihood of there being a fi/co dominated universe (or may mean that cat ppl who were wanting to go for fi change to xan ).
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.

Last edited by booji; 13 Apr 2009 at 20:12.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 20:47   #278
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post

with your ideas on cat, do U mean 2 emp ships one fr/de one fi/de otherwise you are hitting low emp res ships with primary target... it would also be leaving the fi only covered by the T2 of the normal ship whereas I assume you want the T1 on co to be covering the un empd class.
The idea would be (example)

Name Class T1 T2 type
Beetle Fighter-CO-DE-Emp
Recluse Fighter-FR-DE-Emp
Locust Fighter CO FI Norm

The beetle would then suck at anti DE but it would contribute a little*. The FR/DE class EMP ships could then be set to T1=FI, T2=CO. This would be a little fairer, boosting cath DE significantly (but they're already going to struggle, every class has a ship that can target DE and they have to stun everything), but not etd so much.

I'd like some feedback on this idea.



*the beetle could be 'good' anti DE by having DE as t2 whilst DE is moved to t3 in the other anti-DE ships. In this way EMP efficiencies would be similar for all, but I don't think it should be that good tbh.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 21:02   #279
Benneh
Non directed and witty
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: #ascendancy
Posts: 814
Benneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: R31 shipstats

zik bs pod but cr stuff? mistake?
__________________
CATHAAAAAARGH
I've won 4 rounds.
I'm kinda a big deal.
Benneh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Apr 2009, 21:09   #280
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R31 shipstats

ahh well in that case my view is that it does not make a massive amount of difference, as you say its probably most helpful to cat de (which probably does need the help as atm they need to emp through all the co to get to the corsair and banshee - yay names the right way round!) As I mentioned earlier it makes little difference to cat fi so the change is probably overall a good thing, I will trust what you say on the emp efficiancies.

only disadvantage is that the locust as it is atm targets both fi/co and fr/de metaclasses so helping prevent attacks by allmost all attackers from getting through free - with cat de and fi its fine to have an emp shootout, leaving only etd de and potential zik steals. EDIT you could have it T1 Fi and T2 Fr but then that does nothing to stop lots of co fleets going at you and given ease of getting defence it is probably better to be open to fr/de than to co, only option then would to be to give it 3 targets which you have generally done well to avoid
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.

Last edited by booji; 14 Apr 2009 at 08:46.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 08:41   #281
[JungleMuffin]
Registered User
Apple Hunt Champion, Super Hacky Sack Champion
 
[JungleMuffin]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In bed with your mum.
Posts: 664
[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about
Re: R31 shipstats

Stopping Xan FICO out of gal without losing mass amounts of value yourself is going to be a little unlikely dont you think?

Maybe even more than a little?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?
[JungleMuffin] is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 08:55   #282
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R31 shipstats

I think that cutlass and lancer will be pretty effective actually as all have alot of armour so it simply becomes a matter of getting enough. Also it depends on the salvage but it is possible that phantoms will be able too on their own as they will most likely be firing T1 on the banshees whereas most of the return will be from other phantoms on T2... I dont think it will be much more difficult than in previous rounds.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 09:57   #283
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Stopping Xan FICO out of gal without losing mass amounts of value yourself is going to be a little unlikely dont you think?

Maybe even more than a little?
The phantom shoots arrows/harpy/valkyrie first, but only as t2 & it has low efficiency anyway. Xands, just like last round, have a very important-out-of-class attack ship in the banshee. CO priority EMP on the beetle does a lot to help out there.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 10:02   #284
[JungleMuffin]
Registered User
Apple Hunt Champion, Super Hacky Sack Champion
 
[JungleMuffin]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In bed with your mum.
Posts: 664
[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about
Re: R31 shipstats

Wont beets be out on attack?

No doubt the xan eff isnt too high, but with only needing to build phants/bans to cover light and med classes, xans are going to be heavily weighted towards those 2 ships.

No doubt the other ships can do damage in return to the CO once they get to shoot, but in my opinion there wont be many left over, and once u do get to shoot back, ur going to need a hell of alot of kills to make defending a non jihad affair.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?
[JungleMuffin] is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 11:05   #285
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: R31 shipstats

Zik having Cr Ships and a BS pod? Really!?
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 11:05   #286
Whoops
Registered User
Penguin Pass Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10
Whoops is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: R31 shipstats

Ter BS look awfully strong to me - better than last round's ter CR, as those could be stopped with Broads. Unless ter BS have low emp res, it will take a lot of ships to stop them. Xans will get owned (even more than last round, with salvage being lower now), especially if they go CR. May I suggest lowering the init of Broadswords to 6?
EDIT: Nevermind that suggestion. I didn't think at first of the fact that it would ultimately harm xan cr as well. I still think ter BS are too strong, though.


Other than that I think the stats look very promising. Good job!
I also like the change to the EMP ships' targetting that you're suggesting :-)

Last edited by Whoops; 14 Apr 2009 at 11:31.
Whoops is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 11:22   #287
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Zik having Cr Ships and a BS pod? Really!?
Sorry, my bad. It will be CR

Thanks guys for pointing out my stupid mistakes like that ^^


I've considered the broadsword change, but that really punishes xand CR against etds.


Phant/banshee I expect will be built most but their efficiencies are set at a level that I think is fair. Non-rev xands will be vulnerable to cutlass, I think the efficiencies keep this fair enough.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.

Last edited by Gate; 14 Apr 2009 at 12:05.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 13:27   #288
[JungleMuffin]
Registered User
Apple Hunt Champion, Super Hacky Sack Champion
 
[JungleMuffin]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In bed with your mum.
Posts: 664
[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
Phant/banshee I expect will be built most but their efficiencies are set at a level that I think is fair. Non-rev xands will be vulnerable to cutlass, I think the efficiencies keep this fair enough.
As you yourself said, phant is t2

There will be 0 xans without decent revs. Rev shoot CO t1 and FR t2. The only ships that are a threat to xan CO. Tell me, wtf would xan not produce an anti ship, like the rev, which deters the only 2 classes which will be likely to defend against it??1?

Is it not like saying, Ter wont build wyvs, cos gryph, BW, bucs and guards compete against it?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?

Last edited by [JungleMuffin]; 14 Apr 2009 at 13:34.
[JungleMuffin] is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 14:59   #289
Psi_K
Canadian to the Core
 
Psi_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,004
Psi_K is a jewel in the roughPsi_K is a jewel in the roughPsi_K is a jewel in the roughPsi_K is a jewel in the rough
Re: R31 shipstats

I don't like this:

Corsair FI FR DE
Marauder CR FR DE

Cutlass CO CO FI
Thief FR CO FI

Buccaneer FR BS CR
Pirate CR BS CR

Too much mirrored targeting.
Just flip flopping t1/t2 would make it feel better imo.

Ugh, now that I look it seems the same for every race.
__________________
[DTA] Forever
r2-5 [LOST] - r6 [Instinct] - r7-8 [Titans] -r9 [Olympians] -DC
r10 [Elysium] -DC - r11-12 [MISTU] -DC/IA - r13-15 [Angels] - DC
r18-19 [eXi]
<Intermission>
r31-32 [CT] - r33-35 [DLR] - r36 [VsN] - r37 [???]
r45-46 [FAnG]
Psi_K is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 15:24   #290
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: R31 shipstats

Generally speaking, the EMP fleets have been put as t2 since, well, they're EMP. And EMP targeting is pinned together because if it's not, it kinda sucks.

As an aside, as a change to cath I've thought of copying the locust... eg giving every cath attack fleet an in-class killship that is useful in defence if you build that class.

Eg a CR->CR/BS killer, a DE->FR/DE (or mix them up a bit). This should mean that if a cath builds an attack fleet they will have a useful killship to toughen them against 2 attack classes and only have to concentrate on EMPing 4.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 15:39   #291
Deathrow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 18
Deathrow is on a distinguished road
Re: R31 shipstats

1. As pointed out above, a BS pod with a CR fleet for Ziks wouldnt work

2. id also like to see three types of pods for all races, including zik. Gives the zik races a little more fleet options without making them too powerfull.

3. Maybe try and add a new ship for ziks (10 ships to 12 for the rest now that the interceptor is gone). To spicen up the race a bit for the new round

some random ideas:

- A Fi or Co killship targeting Fr only (nothing too spectacular but an option for players who wont to pile fi/co steals and not lose their anti fr power due to steals)

- A crappy fi/co experimental emp ships orso, prolly to powerfull but maybe something to start ziks off with their first small steals.

- A fi/co ship that steals and doesnt die (would have to be downsides etc for balance)

- a fi/co ship thats half pod half steal
like make it T1 fi T2 ro so you only steal roids if you have taken care of the enemy or if he flees.

- a ship with good armor and bad steal and/or dmg, something to flak stealships with before they get to fire (again would need balancing)

just some random ideas, maybe you like one of them

and thanks for working on the stats again
Deathrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 15:46   #292
Benneh
Non directed and witty
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: #ascendancy
Posts: 814
Benneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: R31 shipstats

^ heh someone obviously wants to play zik.
__________________
CATHAAAAAARGH
I've won 4 rounds.
I'm kinda a big deal.
Benneh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 15:59   #293
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
As an aside, as a change to cath I've thought of copying the locust... eg giving every cath attack fleet an in-class killship that is useful in defence if you build that class.
Im not sure that is really necessary; atm with the Locust and Scorpion they target all attack fleets with the exception of their own and the etd DE with a kill ship; from my perspective the utility of the cat kill ships is defensive; Offensively they have little relevance as tbh shooting after everyone else they wont stop ppl defending against them - better to team up; Principally cat kill ships are about making sure the opponent dosent look at the cat as a free meal, thus reducing their incomings - this isnt particularly relevant against other cats attack fleets; leaving just the etd DE undeterred as things stand.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 16:30   #294
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
Im not sure that is really necessary; atm with the Locust and Scorpion they target all attack fleets with the exception of their own and the etd DE with a kill ship; from my perspective the utility of the cat kill ships is defensive; Offensively they have little relevance as tbh shooting after everyone else they wont stop ppl defending against them - better to team up; Principally cat kill ships are about making sure the opponent dosent look at the cat as a free meal, thus reducing their incomings - this isnt particularly relevant against other cats attack fleets; leaving just the etd DE undeterred as things stand.
The point of the in-class killship idea is not that it would be of particular use offensively, but shoving it in-class defensively means that if you build a particular attack fleet, you have a ton of flak for your late firing killer. (as well as the associated EMP). So it achieves the job of preventing them from being a 'free meal'.

That way caths can concentrate on 3 EMP ships with a killship as an aside. This round's FR/DE swarm worked well and it would be similar to that.

I'm thinking CR->DE/FR and DE->BS/CR at this second.


Otherwise these stats are pretty close to final I think. Mostly efficiency playing about - xand FI/CO looks very powerful but it is vulnerable to all of the CR/BS/Emp fleets and its efficiencies are low. How well it does depends on what race and fleet distribution we get, and people are always so irrational about that.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.

Last edited by Gate; 14 Apr 2009 at 16:40.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 17:02   #295
Deathrow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 18
Deathrow is on a distinguished road
Re: R31 shipstats

hehe yeah ive been zik for a long time, its in the blood Benneh

just trying to do my 2 cents to spice up the race i like, if everyone does that we'll have some kickass stats
Deathrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 17:04   #296
[JungleMuffin]
Registered User
Apple Hunt Champion, Super Hacky Sack Champion
 
[JungleMuffin]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In bed with your mum.
Posts: 664
[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
Otherwise these stats are pretty close to final I think. Mostly efficiency playing about - xand FI/CO looks very powerful but it is vulnerable to all of the CR/BS/Emp fleets and its efficiencies are low. How well it does depends on what race and fleet distribution we get, and people are always so irrational about that.
Which CR/BS targets FI/CO?

Yes, CO xans can be roided, but i still insist they are STRONG as fk offensively, if not unstoppable.

If you dont blv me, ask any previous stat maker what they think of xan FI/CO.

There is a big risk here of having a 50%+ xan universe.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?
[JungleMuffin] is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 17:08   #297
[JungleMuffin]
Registered User
Apple Hunt Champion, Super Hacky Sack Champion
 
[JungleMuffin]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In bed with your mum.
Posts: 664
[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathrow View Post
hehe yeah ive been zik for a long time, its in the blood Benneh

just trying to do my 2 cents to spice up the race i like, if everyone does that we'll have some kickass stats
If everyone tried to get an advantage for the race they want to play, then wed end up with shocking stats.

If this is the final stats, ill be Xan, and id bed a bollock that 40% uni is xan, and theres 40 t100 xans eor.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?
[JungleMuffin] is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 17:36   #298
Wishmaster
LDK
 
Wishmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
Wishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: R31 shipstats

with current stats, I d rather go xan fr/fi than fi/co/fr.

and atm looks like ter fr/de is rather impossible to roid
whats the point in making fortress planets? force races to go more than just fr/de man
__________________
[Omen]

Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
Wishmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 17:39   #299
Wishmaster
LDK
 
Wishmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
Wishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
If everyone tried to get an advantage for the race they want to play, then wed end up with shocking stats.

If this is the final stats, ill be Xan, and id bed a bollock that 40% uni is xan, and theres 40 t100 xans eor.
if 40% go xan, then having 40 xan in top 100 is quite alright! means they are just about good enough
__________________
[Omen]

Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
Wishmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Apr 2009, 17:48   #300
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: R31 shipstats

The main problem is that in a xan heavy uni the race to go is... xan


Just un-nerf zik(as ive told you in pm) so they are a viable option
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 00:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018