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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 14:05   #201
isildurx
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Re: r30 ship stats

Being low on phants means your basically asking for xans to send phant def against you though
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 14:48   #202
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Re: r30 ship stats

why do you waste time doing stats JBG then appoco is gonna cnut the stats the day before tickstart as usual?
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 15:16   #203
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Shame if xan gets nerfed just so CTs who plan on going Terran can make their race the best.
Shame if xan doesnt get nerfed so ASC who plan to going Xan can make their race the best
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 15:58   #204
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Re: r30 ship stats

how do you propose one should make xan weaker then?
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 15:58   #205
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Being low on phants means your basically asking for xans to send phant def against you though
I imagined xands spending a decent chunk on phants, but concentrating far more on vsh/puls. Perhaps 20:40:40 split in terms of resources.

In that case it shouldn't make a huge difference to the DC. The DC will send enough to make you pull, or they won't. Having fewer phants than the attacker actually means you suffer fewer losses too. At least, any good DC will. I admit that a large number of DCs (when I used to play) tried to make every battle a clear 'win', which was often a huge waste of resources.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 16:06   #206
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Re: r30 ship stats

Yeah, theres still a few of those DCs around.

I cant help but feel that most xans are going to have to make a sacrifice of either being open to co inc\def or fi inc\def, and that this will cause them major problems.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 16:39   #207
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Yeah, theres still a few of those DCs around.

I cant help but feel that most xans are going to have to make a sacrifice of either being open to co inc\def or fi inc\def, and that this will cause them major problems.
shows how much you have read this thread its been mentioned enough times already and you finally cottoned on? nice1
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 17:00   #208
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Re: r30 ship stats

WOW NICE BURN MAN, ARENT YOU CLEVER.

Maybe if you had a clue you would have understood I am badly arguing why xan is not overpowered something CT seems convinced they are.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 19:02   #209
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Re: r30 ship stats

The fact you are still arguing against my point proves how little you've read. I'd have atleast expected you to look back before reposting. Arguing about xan isnt the only thing you seem bad at.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 19:04   #210
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Yeah, theres still a few of those DCs around.

I cant help but feel that most xans are going to have to make a sacrifice of either being open to co inc\def or fi inc\def, and that this will cause them major problems.
They're probably going to be open to CO regardless.

FI inc shouldn't be a problem unless it's escorted by CO. Hitting xand with xand is nuts!
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 19:21   #211
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Re: r30 ship stats

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The fact you are still arguing against my point proves how little you've read. I'd have atleast expected you to look back before reposting. Arguing about xan isnt the only thing you seem bad at.
Ehhh.. so how about you explain to the rest of your alliance how xan is not overpowered instead of trying to seem e-cool by slagging of my posts(which were the 'same' as yours).
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 19:25   #212
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by Gate View Post
They're probably going to be open to CO regardless.

FI inc shouldn't be a problem unless it's escorted by CO. Hitting xand with xand is nuts!
Thats the thing though, with them being open to co inc regardless that means that they are open to co\cr and to an extent bs so i truly dont see how people can run around saying they are overpowered (except for the reason i previously mentioned a few posts ago).

As for fi inc i can easily imagine a scenario where smaller xans go for huge xp by teaming up on a larger xan, admittedly this isnt a problem for smaller xans but for larger xans it can be quite a hassle.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 20:09   #213
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
how do you propose one should make xan weaker then?
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Phantom Fighter FI - - Cloak 4 1 4 5 19 39 39 39
Vsharrak Fighter CO FR - Cloak 5 1 5 6 24 43 43 43
Pulsar Corvette FR DE - Cloak 5 1 6 7 25 57 57 57
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 20:37   #214
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Re: r30 ship stats

I changed things for good measure considering everyone seems to think xan fi is awesome.

http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.php?page=stats

I improved the harpy, war frig and lancer and made xan fi/co more expensive (I don't like morpheus' suggestion, lots of things that fire at the same init suck).
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 21:01   #215
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I changed things for good measure considering everyone seems to think xan fi is awesome.

http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.php?page=stats

I improved the harpy, war frig and lancer and made xan fi/co more expensive (I don't like morpheus' suggestion, lots of things that fire at the same init suck).
having atleast one race that can fire before xan fi (which isnt emp) doesnt suck, it is called balance.

the only one of those ships that can be used for out of galaxy defence is the harpy.

why not change smuggler to normal and init 5 targetting t1 co t2 fi
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 21:18   #216
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by Thatcher View Post
having atleast one race that can fire before xan fi (which isnt emp) doesnt suck, it is called balance.
Balance doesn't depend on arbitrary single factors.

Quote:
the only one of those ships that can be used for out of galaxy defence is the harpy.
OH MAN I HADN'T NOTICED THAT!!!

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why not change smuggler to normal and init 5 targetting t1 co t2 fi
Are you proposing just that change in isolation? If so you're retarded. If not, can you please let me in on the other changes!
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 21:30   #217
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Re: r30 ship stats

for all those that are joining late and dont want to read up...

for almost the ENTIRE thread non asc players have been complaining about xan fi/co low init and jbg has come up with bs arguements for not changing it. my fav was his reason why having huge numbers of xan planets next rd is actually good because it represents balance. apparently having loads of phants will somehow balance themselves out. what a fun round that will be.

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I like my current solution where an over-abundance of xan can actually fix itself.
if over 30% of planets are xan then clearly stats are biased and if anyone is retarded it is you for not seeing this.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 21:35   #218
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by Thatcher View Post
for all those that are joining late and dont want to read up...

for almost the ENTIRE thread non asc players have been complaining about xan fi/co low init and jbg has come up with bs arguements for not changing it. my fav was his reason why having huge numbers of xan planets next rd is actually good because it represents balance. apparently having loads of phants will somehow balance themselves out. what a fun round that will be.
Your drivel is getting pathetic. I'm just going to ignore you from now on.

I mean ****ing seriously am I supposed to actually consider making etd co a combination of two ships, one emp t1 fi t2 co and one normal t1 co t2 fi. I mean what the ****. Who the **** is going to build that?

I have asked consistently for good changes throughout this thread. I'm willing to consider anything. Why I have to waste my time explaining why changes like you just proposed are ****ing bollocks is beyond me.



Quote:
if over 30% of planets are xan then clearly stats are biased and if anyone is retarded it is you for not seeing this.
Signups haven't even opened yet you ****ing moron.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 21:38   #219
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by Thatcher View Post
for all those that are joining late and dont want to read up...

for almost the ENTIRE thread non asc players have been complaining about xan fi/co low init and jbg has come up with bs arguements for not changing it. my fav was his reason why having huge numbers of xan planets next rd is actually good because it represents balance. apparently having loads of phants will somehow balance themselves out. what a fun round that will be.



if over 30% of planets are xan then clearly stats are biased and if anyone is retarded it is you for not seeing this.

If your refering to beta signups, they dont count for anything. And also its not just non asc members, most people have had input. And if you actually did some calcing you would see that xan fi although good is not unbeatable and infact far from it.

Stop having a strop cause your not getting your way.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 21:44   #220
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Signups haven't even opened yet you ****ing moron.
that why i added the word 'if' at the beginning.. twat
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 21:46   #221
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Re: r30 ship stats

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that why i added the word 'if' at the beginning.. twat
What the **** was the point of even posting that then. Wow. You sure got me there. Let me counter with "if each race has 20% signups then stats are clearly balanced". Awesome, I've won. What an argument.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 21:51   #222
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Re: r30 ship stats

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What the **** was the point of even posting that then. Wow. You sure got me there. Let me counter with "if each race has 20% signups then stats are clearly balanced". Awesome, I've won. What an argument.
atleast the universe would perceive them as balanced, and yes, then you cld congratulate yourself on producing stats which didnt seem to favour one way of playing.

btw love the swearing, i think your a real man now.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 21:55   #223
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Re: r30 ship stats

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atleast the universe would perceive them as balanced, and yes, then you cld congratulate yourself on producing stats which didnt seem to favour one way of playing.
We're talking about something that hasn't even happened yet. What the ****. What's the ****ing point?

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btw love the swearing, i think your a real man now.
I was just going to add fag onto like one in every forty words but someone already beat me to that retarded internet gimmick.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 22:03   #224
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Ehhh.. so how about you explain to the rest of your alliance how xan is not overpowered instead of trying to seem e-cool by slagging of my posts(which were the 'same' as yours).
dont retalliate if u cant take the beating isil .. rest of my alliance? seriously name everyone in ct and ill convince them all that xan isnt overpowered then because i assume you know them all if your making a statement like that.

*awaits ct player list*
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 22:07   #225
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
We're talking about something that hasn't even happened yet. What the ****. What's the ****ing point?
are you trying to tell me it ISNT your intention to produce stats where the majority look at them and say 'yeah i dont see one race with one way to play has a clear advantage, i might as well go any race'?
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 22:08   #226
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Re: r30 ship stats

Okay. Lost the will to live. Made the harpy init 5. If anyone else has any changes to propose for nerfing xan fi please say so and I'll add them.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 22:09   #227
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Re: r30 ship stats

do we need to get a non asc moderator to remove all the abusive posts? ;p
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 22:11   #228
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by [DDK]gm View Post
do we need to get a non asc moderator to remove all the abusive posts? ;p
I'm not a moderator anymore so I'm taking the opportunity to respond to retarded posts as I always wanted to!

Quote:
are you trying to tell me it ISNT your intention to produce stats where the majority look at them and say 'yeah i dont see one race with one way to play has a clear advantage, i might as well go any race'?
I don't even know what you're talking about man. Honest to god.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 22:13   #229
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Re: r30 ship stats

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Okay. Lost the will to live. Made the harpy init 5. If anyone else has any changes to propose for nerfing xan fi please say so and I'll add them.
oh wow, xan fi/co doesnt look soo good, infact will require some skill to play.

ty
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 22:26   #230
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Re: r30 ship stats

harpies arm is back to 8 ?

I dont get it, if your trying to nerf xan fi, why decreasy harpy's arm to 8, and its init to 5, when phants will fire init 4... I mean, init 5 or 6 is pretty much the same thing.


updating...

ok just saw pahts are init 5 too... but this is just retard... xan fi isnt this overpowered... xan is meant to fire first... I dont like it... (and I dont play xan)
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 22:34   #231
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Re: r30 ship stats

i suspect xan phant will get a efficiency boost in beta, but it doesnt make xan s**t, pulsar still v good and so is vsk. agreed playing xan fi/co will be more difficult to play, but i think thats right. i think there will be a few harpy heavy terrans around and a few interceptor heavy ziks around, neither race have co/fi pods so wont be so popular that xan now dont have a chance. all in all, i am now quite happy with fundamental stats.

i genuinly thank jbg for making phant init 5
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 22:41   #232
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Re: r30 ship stats

Phants init 5. Its the only way. Makes the stats more balanced.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 23:01   #233
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Re: r30 ship stats

woo glad action is being took instead of flaming each other now thanx for making our analyst have to put more effort in analysing the stats by making xan not the clear strongest race
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 23:27   #234
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Re: r30 ship stats

Thatcher, stop the ridiculous ad hominems. If you can't understand that one change to a ship in one place causes changes to the rest of the in game balance, not to mention plenty of other arguments you've made that make no sense whatsoever, then really there's some stuff you need to go away and think about. "Because you're ascendancy" isn't really much of an argument however, and that's the crux of my gripe here.

JBG, as much as this guy is clearly moronic and the fact you've done a massive amount for this game (and I for one am truly grateful) can you calm it down a bit. I appreciate this guy is trying your patience, but really the fact you're binning him is being drowned out by the oceans of abuse you're throwing out here. It may be justified, but it's not necessary.
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Unread 15 Jan 2009, 23:37   #235
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Re: r30 ship stats

phantom init 5 is much better
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 00:02   #236
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Re: r30 ship stats

OMG!! You guys just nerfed the Xan too much as it was weak enough before the nerfing. Now my anti-Xan plan for R30 is ruined and i need to start analyzing the stats all over again.

I'm dissapointed
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 00:32   #237
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Re: r30 ship stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Thatcher, stop the ridiculous ad hominems. If you can't understand that one change to a ship in one place causes changes to the rest of the in game balance, not to mention plenty of other arguments you've made that make no sense whatsoever, then really there's some stuff you need to go away and think about. "Because you're ascendancy" isn't really much of an argument however, and that's the crux of my gripe here.

JBG, as much as this guy is clearly moronic and the fact you've done a massive amount for this game (and I for one am truly grateful) can you calm it down a bit. I appreciate this guy is trying your patience, but really the fact you're binning him is being drowned out by the oceans of abuse you're throwing out here. It may be justified, but it's not necessary.
Lokken, I believe you are a moderator, right?
May i ask you why you are obviously prejudiced in favour of JBG?

I agree that you react upon the hostile tone between Thatcher and Killerbee (these forums are already bad enough, you need a harnass to even write something), both got their ideas, feel themselves offended and raise their voice.

Publicly offending Thatcher by saying he's clearly moronic shows in fact more your own incapability of good moderating, both are equally wrong.

Read the convo between them carefully, and you'll see that in fact Thatcher (though imo he also crosses a line) stays more and longer "gentle" than JBG.

I hope you will be that man enough to get back on this, cause saying "You're a bad boy, idiot, don't do that" to the one and "Will you please not do that anymore? That idiot hurt your feelings, but how you respond is not nice." to the other is not a neutral way of moderating.



JBG, I appreciate you put much effort in the stats, it's a complex work and most ppl complain only. But keep in mind those ppl go for "a quick look", get a feeling and upon that feeling base their opinion and race choice. Only a few rlly understand the stats and dive into them.

And yes, if you pick up the task to do the stats, it should be balanced as much as possible. And maybe all those ppl are wrong (cause you are that into stats you know all the finesses/combos), but you can't expect them to be that also. So, next time try to avoid a "possible" look of overpowering on any race. It takes away the question "hey, will PA team do the final tweaks?", what's a nightmare in some ppl's eyes....

just my 2 cents
(or maybe more)


btw,
I love the last alterations on the phantom
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 01:02   #238
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Re: r30 ship stats

when I read these posts... I just think I'm a complete moron when it comes to stats... I disagree with everyone, now xan is so damn underpowered... if u dont like the race and want it ****ed, just say so.

if u really want something firing at the same moment xan FI is, war frigates should have the same init as vsh and pulsar, phant init 4, firing before...
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 01:28   #239
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Re: r30 ship stats

you could give the bomber init 6 to re-power a little the xan and give them a real alternative to FiCo... or switch the init between the syren and the wyvern, i'd rather see a lower init on wyvern T2 and higher on syren T1
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 01:28   #240
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Re: r30 ship stats

thats why i asked if there was a non asc moderator nitbit :P
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 01:45   #241
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Re: r30 ship stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatcher View Post
oh wow, xan fi/co doesnt look soo good, infact will require some skill to play.

ty
Yeah man, pa sure takes a lot of skill. Now you have to press different buttons and shit.
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 01:50   #242
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Re: r30 ship stats

It wasn't broken, and didn't need to be fixed because a few (note few) goons on here whined about Xan Fi being "overpowered".

This is essentially why every beta in PA history has failed miserably.
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 01:57   #243
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Re: r30 ship stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitbiT View Post
Lokken, I believe you are a moderator, right?
May i ask you why you are obviously prejudiced in favour of JBG?

I agree that you react upon the hostile tone between Thatcher and Killerbee (these forums are already bad enough, you need a harnass to even write something), both got their ideas, feel themselves offended and raise their voice.

Publicly offending Thatcher by saying he's clearly moronic shows in fact more your own incapability of good moderating, both are equally wrong.

Read the convo between them carefully, and you'll see that in fact Thatcher (though imo he also crosses a line) stays more and longer "gentle" than JBG.

I hope you will be that man enough to get back on this, cause saying "You're a bad boy, idiot, don't do that" to the one and "Will you please not do that anymore? That idiot hurt your feelings, but how you respond is not nice." to the other is not a neutral way of moderating.
This is all rather odd, as neither poster is that bothered by it, judging from the pm's I've received from them. In fact, they were both pretty courteous about it and seemed to be able to separate "moderation" from "opinion".

Sorry I hurt your feelings though. Any further comments about how terrible i am can be taken to PM. Cheers.
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 02:30   #244
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Re: r30 ship stats

The best part of all of this is, the beta is running but due to a bug you can't build ships.

So all of the moaning is totally unwarranted since we've not yet seen in practice how good/bad any of the races are.

Well done kiddies, in true PA fashion.
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 03:52   #245
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Re: r30 ship stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
It wasn't broken, and didn't need to be fixed because a few (note few) goons on here whined about Xan Fi being "overpowered".

This is essentially why every beta in PA history has failed miserably.
the beta hasnt even been opened?
how can this be why any beta has failed?

also, I now think xan are more balanced overall I wont go xan now though... but imo its better with 25% xan than 35% xan
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 04:00   #246
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Re: r30 ship stats

Beta has never been about testing stats, there's bcalc for that
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 05:00   #247
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Re: r30 ship stats

To be Honest i think the stats are very balanced and Xan is just the way it should be. If you look at last round where Xan realisticlly only had to build 3 ships, Spectres, Banshee's and Phantoms all of which were at higher Init then almost everything that targeted them with the excpetion to the spectre.

However these stats are more designed so that players will HAVE to build ships of atleast 2 classes in order to be successful in attacking.

So by having two Fi's and a Co it gives them more versiltility vs Emp. The Fi's work as flack and the Vask fires back at the De/Fr.

These are quite possible the most Balanced Stats that i've seen in the last 5 rounds.

And you know what guys, you just need to Chill out ok. Planetarion is meant to be fun so if all you guys want to do is Flame at each other do it somewhere else because some of us actually want to have fun.

One last thing. If Xan are able to attack every race with 1 fleet and not take losses or risk them, then why wouldnt everyone and their mother be playing Xan. Its like last round how Xan Fr's couldn't target each other. There need to be some things that are hard, like Xan fi's hitting Etd last round, it rarely happened because they had no way to target the Fr's.

But remember XAN is just one race out there. And if 30% of people are going to be playing Xan Fi's then why wouldnt everyone just meta fleets vs Xan Fi's its not that hard, which is why its kind of a bad thing if everyone choses one type.

And as far as i know Xan vs Xan has always been a blood bath so giving them a free ride is stupid.
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 06:06   #248
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Re: r30 ship stats

5 pages of spam = uncool

anyone got a fresh link for the stats?

PS.... saw 3 posts, something about 3 pod classes, not sure if it was serious or not? Tripple xan pod fake?

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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 06:08   #249
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Re: r30 ship stats

Just ran through most of the thread and came to some simple conclusions:

Thatcher/KB is highly prejudiced and doesn't like ASC, this seems to infect his thought process

At the moment Xan is nerfed too much and they are 'le ****ed'. Highly. With respect to their costs they are underarmoured, fire too late and have serious weaknesses against CR. This seem to have come from some way of thinking that 'defending' against an attack means you kill your opponent without losses.
I am sorry, this is not how it works, you just need to increase his costs to such a high level he pulls. Unless ofcourse your costs are incredibly high that it won't be credible landing a defence. Before the change it was very possible to defend against xan, especially by abusing its 'paper armour'. People seem to neglect this.

Next to this, harpy init 5? This basically means that the harpy is an all round nasty MOFO. Can be incredibly handy by boosting your own attacks and they are insanely usefull in defence and with the phantom so nerfed, it lost its natural 'predator'.

So I reckon the xan fi will regain a lot of its power and i am more concerned about the playability of ETD. It seems to be rather 'difficult'. It can be a challenge, but if muppets who seem to be residing mostly in the CT corner care about balance, I would moan more about that.
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Unread 16 Jan 2009, 06:41   #250
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Re: r30 ship stats

http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.p...664&page=stats

In my opinion PA needed something like this, a bit of variety, something to think about, a challenge. The vast majority of guys who play PA these days have more or less been about the block and know what they are doing.

Like me or not, i know my way around the game and also the stats page. These are, oficially the best stats ever (.) . For better or worse, its the first time since i started playing that the stats look challenging and more importantly, EXCITING, (well not as much as edrama, but still....).

By some possibility that there is a dominant race, as has been the case for god knows how long, there are so many attack fleets/teams out there that u cannot possibly cover all combinations without a gratuitous amount of defense. This means everyone, excluding my mate elviz and his bot army of death, is far more hittable, even when taking value into account.

What makes PA enjoyable is action. Be it landing raids, fighting wars or killing ships, we play this game for its attacking aspect and competitive nature. In the recent past the game has stagnated and become about avoiding wars, not losing ships and roids, sitting at home and staying out of trouble. After briefly looking at those stats, it appears as if the game has received a breath of life, something imo, well overdue.

Last edited by [JungleMuffin]; 16 Jan 2009 at 07:44.
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