User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Strategic Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 31 Jul 2008, 09:45   #301
Wishmaster
LDK
 
Wishmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
Wishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

sigh, I looked another min at the stats


a few smal things ( I wont even look at init / ac / dc for now -> as I m guessing they will be tweaked with later on anyway )

xan co class. only 1 co ship + pod. The ghost makes the xan co fleet shit by itself. ingal def ftw. amIright? ( innit and a change in classes can sort that though ) also maybe make the phant t1 fi t2 co. etd looks too hard t roid with co atm, and xan co rather shit. What is xan co meant to roid cept terrans all round? etds not going for co?

etd got BS SK. why? make it a DE instead. Force em to make a med fact to get it

terrans going DE are atm left with 1 good option to attack. -> ziks.
edit: oh, and even that option is rather shit with pegs having fr as t3, and buccs t2 DE. But can see most ziks going for BS currently which might maek that doable anyway
__________________
[Omen]

Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled

Last edited by Wishmaster; 31 Jul 2008 at 09:53.
Wishmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2008, 10:05   #302
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
round 17 and managed 18 t100 planets, whilst last round etds outperformed caths on average.
Etds!=caths

And those planets were mostly 1up or in a big gal. Plus it was single-targetting (which matters a lot more (flak is less effective)).
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2008, 10:24   #303
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
xan co class. only 1 co ship + pod.
Xan pods are meant to be FR/CR, my bad.

Quote:
etd got BS SK. why? make it a DE instead. Force em to make a med fact to get it
Hadn't bothered looking at SK. Would probably do them last.

Quote:
terrans going DE are atm left with 1 good option to attack. -> ziks.
edit: oh, and even that option is rather shit with pegs having fr as t3, and buccs t2 DE. But can see most ziks going for BS currently which might maek that doable anyway
Yeah, I just noticed that. Will look at a way of fixing them (Drake target to DE/FR, shadow target to FR/DE, swap puls/peg init? Ideally DE would replace last round's BS as being able to hit xands), but only once I've had chance to actually look at the stats properly. I'd probably end up breaking them more if I just went ahead and did that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Etds!=caths
It's applicable evidence because etds went heavy EMP, with 2:1 value investment in recluse:fireblade. They went heavy EMP, yet outperformed cath who had CO.

It falsifies the statement that cath NEED CO. Whether cath with CO would be better or worse for balance, I'm not sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
And those planets were mostly 1up or in a big gal. Plus it was single-targetting (which matters a lot more (flak is less effective)).
7 were 1up. A higher proportion than for the other races, but this is consistent with a tendency for EMPers; to need looking after if they're not XP whoring.

Your second point is fair enough, but I think last round's etds still support what I'm trying to say; CO aren't vital. It might well be better if they're included though.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2008, 10:33   #304
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

I never said it was vital. I said it mattered a lot more to caths than it matters to other races.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2008, 10:59   #305
Wishmaster
LDK
 
Wishmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
Wishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
Xan pods are meant to be FR/CR, my bad.
ah, alright. I was actually thinking when looking through the stats: Xan FR would be awesome if they had fr pod. Xan FR is too strong as it currently is. waaaaaaay too strong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
Hadn't bothered looking at SK. Would probably do them last.
fair enough. but Sks shouldnt be same as a podclass - think all agree with that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
Yeah, I just noticed that. Will look at a way of fixing them (Drake target to DE/FR, shadow target to FR/DE, swap puls/peg init? Ideally DE would replace last round's BS as being able to hit xands), but only once I've had chance to actually look at the stats properly. I'd probably end up breaking them more if I just went ahead and did that.
Terran sucks atm, and xan look V strong. That swap will affect ziks chance in hell of covering vs xan fr though
xan fr/de looks imba, and the mantis should maybe target FR instead of DE.
makes life a bit easier for terran vs cath atleast
__________________
[Omen]

Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
Wishmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2008, 11:43   #306
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
no, it really doesn't. you can fake co as cr now if you wish. its no less scary.
Not to mention that people will always leave stuff home to counter your fake, since you don't kill anything anyway. That said, I admit it's easier to pull off a de-as-cr fake than a co-as-cr fake, though I stand by my point that cath is a crap race to fake with.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2008, 11:58   #307
Wishmaster
LDK
 
Wishmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
Wishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Not to mention that people will always leave stuff home to counter your fake, since you don't kill anything anyway. That said, I admit it's easier to pull off a de-as-cr fake than a co-as-cr fake, though I stand by my point that cath is a crap race to fake with.
teamups with xan having fr/cr could make it interesting though!

or zik having fr/bs. lets call them semi fakes?
__________________
[Omen]

Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
Wishmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2008, 19:50   #308
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Any chance Appoco can let us in on 'the plan' for next round statswise? Are you going to be creating a set of stats or are they going to be made by volounteers?
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Aug 2008, 16:26   #309
Onim
the inquisition incarnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NL, EHV
Posts: 63
Onim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to all
Re: Stats Round 27

Looked a bit at your stats, Gate, and i would suggest making the Broadsword target BS/CR and Stalwart CR/BS, this to at least have some sort of counter vs zik BS and Cath CR..now those 2 would simply have it too easy at the Etd's

as for the overpowering of xans, its not bad that it has early init again, though u might wanna reduce its firepower (drastically)

oh, and this is something i personally would love to see: a Destroyer class stealship for the Etd (call it a privateer?) with t1 CR (no t2) . I looked at it, and it wont give etd's oppurtunity to become a zik by stealing stealships off ziks but it would definately give more ways of playing. And after all, the etraides were made to be a race with a mixture of the other 4. Furthermore would it mean etd's would have to build med facts (someone commented on that i believe)
Onim is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Aug 2008, 20:16   #310
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Having looked at the stats I think theyre a pretty good basis for a possible set of stats for next round.

Thie biggest flaw atm to me(as wish pointed out) is the obvious overpowerment of the xan FR fleet, this something which is easily fixed thou.

Im not sure i agree to the targetetting change mentioned in the post above though, ziks are supposed to be able to roid planets aswell.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Aug 2008, 20:32   #311
Ronin
Legionaire
 
Ronin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: nld
Posts: 50
Ronin will become famous soon enoughRonin will become famous soon enough
Re: Stats Round 27

shame you are throwing the (nearly) perfect balanced round 27 stats in the can gate.

Now i'll have to go whatever race is stupidly overpowered (which is bound to happen). thanks (NOT)
__________________
Legion
and: NoS/FanG/Jenova/CT/DLR

Round 3 - 8 (Legion)
Round 9 - 10.5 (Nos/FanG)
Round 22 - 23 (Jenova)
Round 24 - 28 (CT HC)
Round 31 (DLR)
Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Aug 2008, 20:47   #312
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Oh man almost gave you a sick burn now
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Aug 2008, 22:27   #313
Benneh
Non directed and witty
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: #ascendancy
Posts: 814
Benneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet societyBenneh is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Stats Round 27

another round with the same stats will just be so freaking boring.

There isnt room for anything new. Every fleet will be the same as before. Id rather play with new shitter stats than these ones again. They have lived a good life but now its time to go!
__________________
CATHAAAAAARGH
I've won 4 rounds.
I'm kinda a big deal.
Benneh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Aug 2008, 23:15   #314
Munkee
Dictator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
Munkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

once again a good argument to try and find other ways in bringing some excitement in to the game, not just by changing stats for a round.

Just bring back xan fi roid fleet..
Munkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 00:31   #315
damo8
NewDawn HC
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 48
damo8 has a spectacular aura aboutdamo8 has a spectacular aura aboutdamo8 has a spectacular aura about
Re: Stats Round 27

New less balanced stats > 3rd round with same now boring balanced stats
__________________
BlackDeath/OuZo - Rounds 3-8 - Peon
NewDawn - Peon/BC - Round 23-24
NewDawn - HC Round's 25 - 30
NewDawn - Scanner - Round 31
NewDawn - HC/Peon - Round 32
VisioN - Peon - Round 33
NewDawn - Peon - Round 33/34
NewDawn - HC - Round 35
damo8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 04:13   #316
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

ATM Caths looks quite strong:
- both attack fleets can EMP any ship targeting them
- their kill ships look like good def ships

I'd like to see a slow ingal def ship (CR or BS) targeting DE (even as T2), just to give a chance to the target vs Cath DE inc.

The Zik doesn't look too good. Their attack fleets are made of steal ships only. I only played Zik twice but I found it easier and better to steal ships in defense. To steal ships in attack you have to target inactive lowbies or a generous friend.

ETD could be a very good race for players going heavy on distorters... meaning you don't have to build the killer ships, you can focus on more EMP. The prospect that you might have kill ships could be enough to prevent a lot of attacks as we see on Caths. Their CO fleet seems the best.

it's a bit weird to see terrans with no BS, but great to see the Peg back.
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 09:09   #317
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
shame you are throwing the (nearly) perfect balanced round 27 stats in the can gate.
You might notice I'm only providing options.

I started with suggested tweaks to the r26 stats, but several people asked to see a new set so I had a go. This is more than most people have done - and this set is far from finished. I learned a lot from r17 and I'm convinced that with the people we've got we can make a playable set.

Two more things: I started with the r26 stats (look at etd!), and statsets aren't obliterated from all human knowledge once they've been used. r26 stats can still be used, or brought back at a later date when we're not bored of endless corsair/bomber defences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
Now i'll have to go whatever race is stupidly overpowered (which is bound to happen). thanks (NOT)
New stats don't always do this. See r14 and r25. And possibly 17/23 too.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 09:14   #318
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
The Zik doesn't look too good. Their attack fleets are made of steal ships only. I only played Zik twice but I found it easier and better to steal ships in defense. To steal ships in attack you have to target inactive lowbies or a generous friend.
The idea for zik was to have out-of-class killships. The corsair kills banshee/corsair and absorbs guardian EMP: the rogue kills spectre/dragon/broad and absorbs tarantula EMP.

Right now they're a little useless due to the ease with which they get killed, but tweaking could let us use this dynamic. Or we could just put the killship back in the attacking class and move the stealer out - whichever works best.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 10:24   #319
Munkee
Dictator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
Munkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

Talking of ingal slow kill ships, anyone remember the good ole rogue targetting fi? worked quite well. I always play xan and tbh i much preffered using xan fi back in the day over the fr/de thats about now. Yes i know the option is there to use co but it seems xans are kind of losing their identity as has been brought up in this thread already. The paper armour low init ships for swamping just dont really seem to be around in the suggestions made here.. (xans with cr attack? wtf?).
Munkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 12:51   #320
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
Talking of ingal slow kill ships, anyone remember the good ole rogue targetting fi? worked quite well. I always play xan and tbh i much preffered using xan fi back in the day over the fr/de thats about now. Yes i know the option is there to use co but it seems xans are kind of losing their identity as has been brought up in this thread already. The paper armour low init ships for swamping just dont really seem to be around in the suggestions made here.. (xans with cr attack? wtf?).
Weird, huh?

I always wanted to see something different. I don't think CR attack hasn't been done because it breaks balance, it hasn't been done for the sole reason that people think xands shouldn't have it.

That's not a good enough reason IMO.

EDIT: I thought of trying to make the xan frigate fleet require a FI or CO escort. Or swapping their DE down to a FI or CO. That would mean a typical xand would have Revenant/Ghost OR Wraith/Spectre, and a ton of FI/CO. I'm nervous about the potential effect on FR/DE fleets though.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.

Last edited by Gate; 2 Aug 2008 at 12:58.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 14:24   #321
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

I've long wondered how a Xan Bs fleet would work, especially when one combines it with a Ter Fi fleet, for example. We're much too attached to certain races having certain roiding fleets in my opinion.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 14:53   #322
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

I agree completely
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 15:07   #323
Hude
self-entitledly superior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 341
Hude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant future
Re: Stats Round 27

I peeked at Gate's set and liked the fact zik had stealers in the attack fleet.
Hude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 15:28   #324
Munkee
Dictator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
Munkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
We're much too attached to certain races having certain roiding fleets in my opinion.
but then whats the point in having races? we could just have ppl build what they want through tech tree once again. If you have a race with an identity then surely when you make the stats you give them that identity making it some what easier to work out what needs to go where? Then its the players choice which type of fleet they want to use and which race has that fleet + the bonuses etc that come with that.

i do see how if you start throwing in completely opposing ship classes to what that race is used to then you will get a big variation in stats from rounds previous but is it really needed? and wont people just end up like i said before be picking the race with the fleet they are used to, just simply its no longer xan its called ter? Its stupid i know but there are many people out there who go for a particular race as it is one of their favourites, and they do not follow what would actually be best for them.
Munkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 15:47   #325
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

CLOAK with low armor and fast ships, EMP, STEAL, HIGH ARMOUR, MIXED.

Isnt that enough of a limitation? I dont see why xans HAVE TO HAVE fi or co pods aslong as theyre cloaked and have low init.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 15:59   #326
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

The point of having races is giving people the option to choose between a number of differences:
Ship types (EMP, Cloak, Steal, etc)
Race characteristics (fast research, fast construction, etc)
Certain general ship characteristics (high damage, high armor, high init)
And finally, roiding fleets.

Doubtlessly you've noticed that the first three things I mentioned are generally unchanging, the only exception being Etd, which as we all know is a race without set characteristics at all. This leaves only the last option, which is another thing you're apparently against allowing change in. This in turn leads to static stats which never see significant changes.

On a sidenote, does the idea of a Xan Bs fleet not seem intriguing to you?

P.S. Damn you isil.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 17:20   #327
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
we could just have ppl build what they want through tech tree once again.
Actually, I roughed up a tech tree set too, but it would have needed quite a lot of effort to be useable and since there's no hope of branching tech trees until OMAC start changing things in 1-2 rounds, I shelved it.

Quote:
i do see how if you start throwing in completely opposing ship classes to what that race is used to then you will get a big variation in stats from rounds previous but is it really needed?
It's not needed, just like having a FI/CO and an FR/DE pod isn't needed either. If it makes a set of stats that people have to think about and works out well, I'm happy either way.

Quote:
and wont people just end up like i said before be picking the race with the fleet they are used to, just simply its no longer xan its called ter? Its stupid i know but there are many people out there who go for a particular race as it is one of their favourites, and they do not follow what would actually be best for them.
If they play like that they won't get a high rank anyway. Players should be able to decide whether they'd have more fun having FI/DE pods & heavy armour, or whether they prefer the charms of cloaking!

EDIT: A little further playing around and I got to here. Kinda unhappy with it atm, but I think it's fixable. Ideally peg will have a major advantage over banshee & xand FR need another useable target. Thought of giving scorp t2 FR and removing locust's t3.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.

Last edited by Gate; 2 Aug 2008 at 17:39.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2008, 21:03   #328
Munkee
Dictator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
Munkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
EDIT: A little further playing around and I got to here. Kinda unhappy with it atm, but I think it's fixable. Ideally peg will have a major advantage over banshee & xand FR need another useable target. Thought of giving scorp t2 FR and removing locust's t3.
tbh dude, not seeing what xan fr cant hit? there is only ter with de that will hit the fr for a kill. Cath just emp and any other race is out init'd

Last edited by Munkee; 2 Aug 2008 at 21:09.
Munkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 08:46   #329
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

I dont see a big problem with the Xan FR fleet seeing as you can easly either throw in banshees with your FR fleet or atleast fake them, and afterall this is only a problem on Terrans. And besides Xan FR + Cat FR\DE is going to be a sublime teamup.

Overall im positive towards this statsset and i think that with a little tweaking they can become a nice and interesting set of stats
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"

Last edited by isildurx; 3 Aug 2008 at 09:03.
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 10:02   #330
Munkee
Dictator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
Munkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

idd a good teamup for cath/xan. Just from that you can see a good benifit for being cath/xan and to counter this being a ter in the round. I really think the inits xan has are bang on with people expectations of the race (yes i know we discussed moving away from this) but this is something that could easily be tweaked with lesser armour from now on. Howerever have you looked at moving phantom init to 5 as well? it could make for some interesting ter fi battles atleast. But then again, for ally def i suppose the phantom will have a good part to play vs ter those 0 ship fleets will cause a awful lot of recalls.
Munkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 10:24   #331
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Then again Terran FI will have a nice big armor so its gonna be a great fleet to get xp with, so I think we need the phantom at init 4 to not make the FI fleet too powerful.

Im already relishing all the zik fighting and taking big losses early on to get hold of some co pods


P.S Any chance of etd having a stealer Gate?
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"

Last edited by isildurx; 3 Aug 2008 at 10:36.
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 10:57   #332
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Yo Gate make Pillagers steal fs!
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 11:24   #333
Munkee
Dictator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
Munkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

i'd like to see some armour / emp figures tbh now
Munkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 11:32   #334
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
tbh dude, not seeing what xan fr cant hit? there is only ter with de that will hit the fr for a kill. Cath just emp and any other race is out init'd
Locust is zero loss, terran ships target it at equal init, as do revenant/banshee. This is similar to xand DE last round - fireblade/scorp were zero loss but ingal only.

Ofc, caths may concentrate on EMP rather than on the locust, but it's a useful ship and it's only able to defend vs FR in-ally.

Also, the pirate now gets to steal xand FR and is only targetted as a secondary. I don't think xand frigs are overpowered tbh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
P.S Any chance of etd having a stealer Gate?
If it works in the stats, sure - suggest something if you see an opening. I'm quite fond of the EMP/cloak mix, but a stealer would also be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Yo Gate make Pillagers steal fs!
Not sure I like that, can you gimme a reason?

The point of the pillager (and the rogue) was to give ziks a 'traditional' attack choice like the rogue/brig gave them this round. Pillagers neutralise revenants and scare off guardians, whilst the stealers try to do enough damage to scare off the other defence (brigs vs xands, buccs vs etds).

I'm slightly worried about the power of some team-ups, but I haven't got round to looking at them just yet, & I'm mildly concerned that the only zik anti BS is the marau.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.

Last edited by Gate; 3 Aug 2008 at 11:39.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 11:37   #335
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I've long wondered how a Xan Bs fleet would work, especially when one combines it with a Ter Fi fleet, for example. We're much too attached to certain races having certain roiding fleets in my opinion.
whilst this is true on a base level, there's also other things to take into consideration. the reason xan have always been "small and quick" is because they've been relatively easy to cover. terran fi with the amount of armour it's inevitably going to have, is going to be some effort to gather up enough def to cover in that one hour eta7 attacks give you. alternatively, xan bs or whatever is going to laughably probably only need 1-2 fleets as per usual their fi/co usually require, except now you have a whole 3 hours to find them.


if you're trying for variations you need to adjust the entire racial identities first: and then if you're doing that you might as well accept etd is stupid, cat doesn't work and go for a mash up of races and condense the numbers down.

edit: i've just had a quick look at the stats and there seems to be a potential for a lot of utterly useless ships to be about, not cool
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 11:43   #336
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Alternatively use your set of stats?
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 12:04   #337
Alezzar
Bibliophile
 
Alezzar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 163
Alezzar is infamous around these parts
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
shame you are throwing the (nearly) perfect balanced round 27 stats in the can gate.

Now i'll have to go whatever race is stupidly overpowered (which is bound to happen). thanks (NOT)
Yeah, totally agree that. Last rounds were almost perfect, and id love too see appoco doing em for r28 too...
__________________
r16-r18 - ROCK
r19-r21 - Subh
r22 - TGV
r24-r26 Vengeance
r27-r29 - Ascendancy
r30 - r35 - New Dawn
r36 -r37 - Euphoria
r43 - r46 - New Dawn
r47 - r51 - Ultores
r67 - - New Dawn
Alezzar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 12:32   #338
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome View Post
whilst this is true on a base level, there's also other things to take into consideration. the reason xan have always been "small and quick" is because they've been relatively easy to cover. terran fi with the amount of armour it's inevitably going to have, is going to be some effort to gather up enough def to cover in that one hour eta7 attacks give you. alternatively, xan bs or whatever is going to laughably probably only need 1-2 fleets as per usual their fi/co usually require, except now you have a whole 3 hours to find them.
I think all of these are fixable.

Xand CR is the same as xand FR/DE in terms of ally def - 2 ticks to gather defence as there is no eta7 anti CR. And the lower eta xand def (which is great at scaring xands) is part of an attack fleet, just like the pulsar vs xand DE last round. There is more time for ingal def ofc.

Terran FI: fixable again. EMP-ers are always challenging to cover, whilst xands are generally coverable with few fleets if the defenders are willing to accept losses. These are both present for terran FI, but I'm convinced they're not game-breaking. Can always nerf their E/R, for example. A target swap on the cutlass plus the phantom could ensure their power is restrained. After all, this round's dedicated anti CO fleets consisted mainly of CR based caths building beetles. Every other ally anti CO was an attack ship.

Quote:
if you're trying for variations you need to adjust the entire racial identities first: and then if you're doing that you might as well accept etd is stupid, cat doesn't work and go for a mash up of races and condense the numbers down.
I had a go with branched stats, and I'm sure others would do better ones. OMAC stated they wanted 'business as usual' for 2 rounds, and major changes would likely create a furore, so I decided to try this.

Quote:
edit: i've just had a quick look at the stats and there seems to be a potential for a lot of utterly useless ships to be about, not cool
ID them for me please? Would help.

The revenant and kraken look kinda useless, but my skim through found a use for everything else, if every attack fleet is viable. 2 useless ships seems an acceptable price - and revenant t3=fi may give it a niche anyway. We had the black widow last round after all.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 13:01   #339
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

overall I like these stats so far, its a bit difficult to tell how well they will work out without guns/emp res and armor/guns however I am sure U will manage to balance it all

I am glad that you took out the xan de targeting de as I think that made the xan de/fr fleet too strong.

otherwise atm I think that the terran de fleet is probably the strongest fleet as it is most able to be consentrated on 2 classes of ship making it difficult to attack. we may have the somewhat unusual situation where terrans are able to attack xans (assuming they are willing to face equal init fights with peg vs banshee or harpy vs ghost) but it is rather more difficult for xans to roid terrans than it has been previously. On the other hand they will most likely be better at attacking players that have strong cr/bs fleets than they were last round, and they will no longer be the constant target of cat cr attacks or etd bs/cr as they now have emp flack for the shadow.

I have never played zik so I am not in a very good position to say this but with their roiding fleets made up of entirely steal ships they may well be in a difficult position finding targets they can roid without very large losses until they have stolen other races ships. I understand that the idea of the pillager and rogue is to provide an addition to attack fleets to help this should it be necessary, tho with both only targeting 1 shiptype it will probably still be pretty easy to defend against.

otherwise I probably would have preferred etd to not have both their roiding fleets as entirely emp as I suspect this will lure alot of etd players into building only the emp ships when its the kill ships that make them difficult to attack (particularly odd given your arguments for the etd cr fleet last round)... but then if the last few rounds are anything to go by there will be not be many etd in the uni and thy will mostly be chosen by ppl who know what they are doing with them.

anyhow like it so far, keep up the good work
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 14:02   #340
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome View Post
whilst this is true on a base level, there's also other things to take into consideration. the reason xan have always been "small and quick" is because they've been relatively easy to cover. terran fi with the amount of armour it's inevitably going to have, is going to be some effort to gather up enough def to cover in that one hour eta7 attacks give you. alternatively, xan bs or whatever is going to laughably probably only need 1-2 fleets as per usual their fi/co usually require, except now you have a whole 3 hours to find them.


if you're trying for variations you need to adjust the entire racial identities first: and then if you're doing that you might as well accept etd is stupid, cat doesn't work and go for a mash up of races and condense the numbers down.
Agreed. If I were to make a set of stats at one point, this is pretty much what I would do.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2008, 22:32   #341
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Theres few things in the PA uni id want more than a more diverse techtree to differentiate more res\con wise and ships wise.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Aug 2008, 03:39   #342
Onim
the inquisition incarnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NL, EHV
Posts: 63
Onim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to all
Re: Stats Round 27

i like the adjustments , but theres still one thing i think would make it better, something i mentioned before but didnt get much response? I'd like to hear what the rest of you thinks of this: swap broadsword and stalwart's targets back to what they were in r26 given the current change to more cruisers than battleships, whereas last round there were more bs than cr, right? So make broadsword target BS/CR and Stalwart CR/BS.
If it's kept like this, no etd would build the broadsword, since its init makes it useless to both the xan and the cath cr fleet, and ziks are very likely to use their rogue in their attackfleets as well , effectively making this ship obsolete imho. But if you change it to target BS/CR and the stalwart to CR/BS, it would mean the etd is slightly more vulnerable to BS, less easily roided by zik perhaps, but if you keep it this way etd would be the worst race to pick since r24
Onim is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Aug 2008, 06:32   #343
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

Shouldn't we open a thread named Stats R28 ?
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Aug 2008, 08:27   #344
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Only three days left till signups start. Can Gate\Appoco confirm if were using a version of this statsset or not, I cba properly looking at it and commenting untill I know for sure heh.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Aug 2008, 08:48   #345
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onim View Post
i like the adjustments , but theres still one thing i think would make it better, something i mentioned before but didnt get much response? I'd like to hear what the rest of you thinks of this: swap broadsword and stalwart's targets back to what they were in r26 given the current change to more cruisers than battleships, whereas last round there were more bs than cr, right? So make broadsword target BS/CR and Stalwart CR/BS.
I'm a lil worried this nerfs zik BS.

I thought of changing the guardian alone... but the most likely choice looks to be making the tara a BS-CR targetter and having the xands with very low E/R on their CR.


I'm going away in 3-4 days for a few weeks, so I'll try and make these stats useable before I go just in case someone wants to try using them. It would require JBG/Appoco/someone to polish them up after a beta though!
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Aug 2008, 09:30   #346
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Looking at these stats again IMO the number of targetings have to be more limited. At the moment there is a whopping 14 ships firing on FR f.ex compared to 9 vs BS and 10 vs DE. Too much especially on the anti FR if you ask me.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Aug 2008, 10:50   #347
Telcontar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31
Telcontar has a spectacular aura aboutTelcontar has a spectacular aura about
Re: Stats Round 27

Right.

I have a few thoughts on those stats you proposed Gate. Many of the things I'll cover below are ofc obvious, but too important not to make absolutely clear. I've also tried to include some thoughts on A/C, D/C etc in the points below, since it's about time to start thinking about that if we wanna use this set.

1) We should dramatically reduce the A/C for the Terran fi fleet - they're the only ones with Fi pods in those stats. Hard to kill fighters would own.

2) We should also dramatically increase the A/C for zik stealers - there has to be a clear correlation between init and A/C (see point 6 for more thoughts on the zik attack fleets).

3) I suggest changing Recluse targets to de/fr instead of fr/de since there are 3 different DE class ships targeting DE and only 1 FR targeting DE. (That might also make Buccaneers a bit more useful, and I think ziks need all the help they can get, by the looks of it).

4) Speaking of cath, I think the Mantis is a bit useless since it can only be used for self-defence and in-gal defence. It'd be pointless to send it in attacks since no DE class ships target CR anyway, and it's too slow for ally def. I'd suggest changing it so that it is an EMP ship targeting BS, though I haven't thought that one through really...

5) At the moment, 3 ships have t1 FI (two of those are Terran), whilst 7 ships have t1 CO. Seems like the Etd co fleet is at a disadvantage in respect to the Ter fi, don't you think?

6) Having an all-steal zik FR attack fleet will most likely be pretty useless in the sense that It'll be very hard to steal any ships. Alone they are likely to attract a heck of lot of defence, and together with the high-damage Xan FRs, they will most likely scare off any defence (unless covered). One normal and one stealer seems better imho.

That's all for now, and I appologise if some of the things have been mentioned already, I can't remember all that has been said, can I?
__________________
[Vengeance] Telcontar

Check out the Planetarion Intelligence Agency
www.paganutopia.com
Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Aug 2008, 11:35   #348
Hude
self-entitledly superior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 341
Hude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant future
Re: Stats Round 27

Thief Corvette Co Fi - Steal 20
Defender Corvette Co Fi - Emp 1

Corsair Corvette Fr De - Steal 20
Guardian Corvette Fr De - Emp 2

Pirate Battleship Fr - - Steal 21
Paladin Battleship Fr - - Emp 2

Marauder Battleship Bs Cr - Steal 20
Stalwart Battleship Bs Cr - Emp 2

Now, what ships do you think ziks are going after? If you plan to play etd, don't stay idle for too long!

Also,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telcontar View Post
6) Having an all-steal zik FR attack fleet will most likely be pretty useless in the sense that It'll be very hard to steal any ships. Alone they are likely to attract a heck of lot of defence, and together with the high-damage Xan FRs, they will most likely scare off any defence (unless covered). One normal and one stealer seems better imho.
Actually I think its about time we have all-steal attack fleets again. Its a lot less boring for a zik.
Hude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Aug 2008, 13:24   #349
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hude View Post
Actually I think its about time we have all-steal attack fleets again. Its a lot less boring for a zik.
and a lot more work for MH
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Aug 2008, 13:28   #350
Telcontar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31
Telcontar has a spectacular aura aboutTelcontar has a spectacular aura about
Re: Stats Round 27

Boring or not, my point is I don't think an all-steal attack fleet will be very good at roiding. And without roids, you're not very likely to get a high rank. Though one can't be sure of how effective it'll be until the game is actually running ofc. If we keep it like that, then at the very least I think you should follow my second suggestion and increase the armour and EMP resistance dramatically...
__________________
[Vengeance] Telcontar

Check out the Planetarion Intelligence Agency
www.paganutopia.com
Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018