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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:12   #1
Forest
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Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Ok I would like this to stay a sensible discussion on the future of the game. If it turns into a flame fest, I will simply remove it.

I now at this moment have 3 waves of incoming.

Wave 1 = 400 bships
Wave 2 = 2500 Frigs
Wave 3 = 2000 Cruisers
Structure killers are sent (again)
I have 200 roids.
My whole gal has the same, and this has happened all round to me, and others in other galaxies.

Now, this is senseless bashing, and is just driving people away from the game. I am only still playing (barely) because of my friends.
The disapponting thing for me is this is small alliances (f-crew and vgn in this instance). If larger alliances did this, there would be a big outcry of how we were ruining the game, but in the main, the top alliances are all at war with each other, and its the smaller alliances doing these galaxy attacks (which happen on a gal often during the small player base, far too often, so small players have no chance to rebuild.

Its the smaller alliances such as f-crew (im using them as an example as they are one of the so-called champions of the smaller player), that are actually driving the new players away, and they are doing less for the game than the big alliances.

So, based on the facts above, please discuss....

1) Do you like structure killers
2) Should the bash limit by higher
3) Should we have some kind of limit on the smaller planets and the amount of incoming they can have. For instance, if 50% size of average planets, you can only have 1 wave attacking every 4 ticks or something.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:15   #2
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

1) Do you like structure killers. No i hate them, there is no place for them in a non-war environment. Perhaps some kind of ingame war declaration thing would be good, and sk can only be sent to alliances with whom you are at war.

2) Should the bash limit by higher. Yes, with xp everyone should be attacking people bigger than them anyway. This would give the smaller players less incoming, meaning they attack more, and will probably find the game more fun.

3) Should we have some kind of limit on the smaller planets and the amount of incoming they can have. For instance, if 50% size of average planets, you can only have 1 wave attacking every 4 ticks or something. Although abusable to stop incoming on yourself, if it was only for small planets and as long as carefully monitored, I dont see too mnay negative points to this, whilst the positive points are abvious.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:23   #3
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

I agree to some extent, since there introcution i have rarely purchased a single Structure Killer, i have never personally saw the point and had experiences of how annoying it is to lose all your factories amongst other structure in a single tick. To a smaller player this could possible destroy his entire infastructure for a good number of ticks.

The Bash limit could also be looked but im not sure how high/low it should be, you have to take into account the larger players at the top ranks also when targets become incresingly hard to find as the round progresses.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:27   #4
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

I personally HATE Structure killers, especially seeing as 20% is alot of your structures then you get 3 waves of them landing.

I personally only use them against the alliance who used them on me in the first place but noone else.


Bash limit imo is fine as in the end the bigger guys have noone to hit, it would only help the high rank xp whores really.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:37   #5
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

hi there.. i know exactly how you feel
i just pass the round getting beat to pulp , and i think i just got the last 2 incoming to finish me off.. both will fleetcatch 2 of my fleet.. and with the structure killer in them.. i ll lose probably 8 -10 building, and i m not talking about roids either...
annd to think i had a friend paying for that kind of abuse..
i m not even sure i ll be back next rounds!!!!!
one thing for sure.. there wont much much left of my planet after the next 8 hours passes..
who ever plan this attack aim to kill
and will succeed


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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:38   #6
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

It will serve the big guys right for being so good!

Serioulsy though, we could have some kinda sliding scale, where top 200 planets have a bash limit of say 40%, but lowest 200 planets have 10% or something (random numbers)
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:39   #7
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

tbh m8 what ure spewing is bullshit, F-Crew has attacked for XP all round, sometimes a gal may have someone with low roids needeing to be covered, but we hit top gals Forest, if ure complaining bout top gals being hit, then where are we meant to go?? and tbh its not ppl like F-Crew, ive been bashed all ****ing game by ppl like u. im still waiting for the first attack on me by someone with smaller value, with 80% or higher of my incs being ppl twice my size.

know for a fact F-Crew dosnt encourage structure killers. i personally despise them and havnt bought one all round, i know wakey has similar feelings on them. Your just doling out a load of crap to pass the time till u lot inveitably win the round.

On ure points:

1. Structure killers suck, they have no place in the game and shouldnt be there full stop.

2. I agree the bash limit should be moved further up, ppl should be encouraged to go for XP, not only would it help the smaller ppl but would create a more dynamic game, and maybe create more of a competetive round.

3. a good idea in theory but will probably be abused too much, low value players already have advantages, upping the bash limit would help the situation enough one would hope. 2 solutions would overkill the problem
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:39   #8
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
1) Do you like structure killers. No i hate them, there is no place for them in a non-war environment. Perhaps some kind of ingame war declaration thing would be good, and sk can only be sent to alliances with whom you are at war.

2) Should the bash limit by higher. Yes, with xp everyone should be attacking people bigger than them anyway. This would give the smaller players less incoming, meaning they attack more, and will probably find the game more fun.

3) Should we have some kind of limit on the smaller planets and the amount of incoming they can have. For instance, if 50% size of average planets, you can only have 1 wave attacking every 4 ticks or something. Although abusable to stop incoming on yourself, if it was only for small planets and as long as carefully monitored, I dont see too mnay negative points to this, whilst the positive points are abvious.

1. i think this is am idea, better delt with at a player/alliance attitude level, as this hardcoded rule would exclude the use of sk's in smaller wars, such as a neutral alliance player who attacksa you regularly, or all sorts of smaller type war scenarios

2. this has always been a problem whilst i have played but recently has been exacabated by the introduction of steeling for all races, people will try and attack their bash limit in order to catch the more inactive players sleeping and steel their ships, if the steeling for all races is to continue i feel the bash limit wil have to go up, ths however gives those who keep their value low a further advantage.

3. i can see this again being badly abused by keeping your value low, ther bash limit was already abused last round, and the higher you make the bash limit the more abuseable it will become.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:41   #9
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest

Its the smaller alliances such as f-crew (im using them as an example as they are one of the so-called champions of the smaller player), that are actually driving the new players away, and they are doing less for the game than the big alliances.

So, based on the facts above, please discuss....

1) Do you like structure killers
2) Should the bash limit by higher
3) Should we have some kind of limit on the smaller planets and the amount of incoming they can have. For instance, if 50% size of average planets, you can only have 1 wave attacking every 4 ticks or something.

Ive to say that im in a medium sized galaxy which is just outside top 30, tho we were at some points nearly outside to top 50 and ive to say YES, it were mostly the smaller alliances (as in averagescore) who heavily waved us. Especially for the "newbies" its hard to get defense and that doesnt really help them. And yes, that has to do with the playerbase but i dont think that this problem can be solved anyways. i dont give pa more than 2 or 3 rounds if at all.

to your points.

1. I dont like structure killers, they are annoying - and for "newbies" they are even more annoying, i dont think they are a big help for getting new players.

2. NO - there are only few planets you can hit anyways.

3. Dont think that this can worked out as it will also minimize the targets we have. I know this bites with my opinion i wrote above.....


I only see a bigger planetbase to get out of this mess. Atlesat back to like round 8 (6k planets if im not mistaken) This again means maybe new rules on the freebie planets or whatever.

I personally would say (tho this is an old topic and jolt wont do anything in that direction anyways) :

Why not making the universe looking like this :
Random = free and all research/construction.
Paid = Private galaxies + a 4th fleet just for ingal defense or some other kind of a nice bonus.

I personally would pay for such and advantage and i bet alot others too. And also i bet there will be a higher planetbase after 2 or 3 of such rounds.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:46   #10
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

The_Mad_Keg its not bshit, its happening this minute.

4:7 is my gal, feel free to check it out.

Your point about hitting big gals is valid. My gal is about 15th, which on the face of it is a big galaxy. However, in such a small inactive universe, most of the players in that gal (and gals around it), are small. Only the top 5 gals can be called big these days, as getting 1 big exiled player in our gal would pout us back in top 10 easily enough.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:47   #11
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
The disapponting thing for me is this is small alliances (f-crew and vgn in this instance). If larger alliances did this, there would be a big outcry of how we were ruining the game
And then, undoubtedly, someone from 1up or another bigger alliance would step forward and say it's all part of the game and we should live with it ¬__¬

To answer you questions :
1. I don't like structure killers. They're fine for alliance wars, but sending them on normal roiding missions is pointless and occasionally counter-productive. Especially since the net result is causing the defender grief rather than accomplishing anything.
2. The bash limit should be higher - probably 50% or so, there's no reason to be hitting anyone under half your value. For the most part you should be landing on people of equal value.
3. It's an interesting idea but I suspect it's too complicated to code.

I'm interested in why you singled out F-Crew for this - I can't state that it's never happened but I'm not sure where you're coming from with it. Wakey is outspoken against the use of structure killers and has in the past asked people not to send them on roidings, and I'd say the vast majority of our players hit people over their size - XP works to the advantage of smaller, less organised alliances such as ourselves, after all, so I don't think we'd have got very far this round if we'd spent the time bashing people.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:49   #12
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

I always thought that some sort of limit should be put on hitting people below your size. So if you hit someone 50% of your value, you'd only get 50% of the normal roids you'd get. Same with ship stealing etc.
A basic idea and not refined but it is what's used in other games like Utopia and works well.

I'm not entirely sure you can blame small alliances. Usually they are the ones who take in small players and help with their attacks/defence against other small alliances. If they join no alliance at all then no matter what your size you will be 'bashed'. Also this round if someone is active enough they should be able to exile to find at least a fairly good active galaxy that can stop most random incomings.

Added to this is the fact that I know a lot of top alliance players (both present and past) bash small people silly, especially for ships. They do this until they get so big they have to concentrate mainly on people their own size, tho they still bash people at their bottom limit if they can

Last round I was a zik in an OK galaxy which was ranked 70-90th most of the time. As soon as I reached 2-3mill I would get daily incomings from 4-5mill+ people (who could only just hit me) after my ships. The rest of the smaller ppl in the gal would also get incoming from planets who could only just hit them. Blame it on small alliances indeed, ha. And I thought you actually knew stuff about this game Forest, mr unpretty

I think structure killers would be ok if they didn't destroy stuff based on how many types of buildings you have at the time and the number they can kill at a time was reduce. It's very annoying when you get structure killers incoming and have say 50 amps, 3 factories and all the factories die because they make up 3/4 of your types of structures. Whoever came up with that thinking deserves shooting in my humble opinion
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:50   #13
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legator
I personally would say (tho this is an old topic and jolt wont do anything in that direction anyways) :

Why not making the universe looking like this :
Random = free and all research/construction.
Paid = Private galaxies + a 4th fleet just for ingal defense or some other kind of a nice bonus.

I personally would pay for such and advantage and i bet alot others too. And also i bet there will be a higher planetbase after 2 or 3 of such rounds.
The real problem here is that this would almost certainly lead to less income for at least two rounds for PA. This leads to the questions of a) whether or not jolt can afford this and b) whether or not jolt would want to risk this. Maybe an extensive advertising campaign would help (PA, free again!) but again this would cost money. It's a concept I'd hope someone involved in either pateam or jolt is looking at though.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:53   #14
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

TSP ty for taking the time to answer productively. To answer your queries....

an alliance from 1up or lch etc wouldnt say its part of the game. If I was attacking newer players with sk's, i would be kicked from 1up, as I should be attacking our direct enemies from whatever war we are in. Any player in 1up, will verify this.

I am not singling f-crew out exactly, its a lot of small alliances. I mentioned f-crew because i have incoming from them which is ....

Wave 1 = 400 bships
Wave 2 = 2500 Frigs
Wave 3 = 2000 Cruisers
Structure killers are sent (again)
I have 200 roids.


I mentioned vgn, because they did the same a few days ago, and when I queried the ethical side of it I was told by there hc it was part fo the game, and it was because i had 10 deflectors, which there members wanted dead. (That on its own insinuates that they will be returning again and again, as there ios no other reason for em to take down 10 of my deflectors).

I hope that clears things up.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:55   #15
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

And RE: about your gal - it is big, big enough that it stops random incomings (I imagine anyway). However when a galaxy like yours is being hit *everyone* needs to be covered so they don't defend in gal. That's not bashing it's just tactics. Rather then random incomings in a smaller gal you tend to just get them all one day of the week :P

But am I right in thinking that if your galaxy is bashed a lot, then it's probably from a top alliance who want to see certain other top alliance planets in your galaxy dead? Doubtful you can blame that on the smaller alliances
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:55   #16
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
The_Mad_Keg its not bshit, its happening this minute.

4:7 is my gal, feel free to check it out.

Your point about hitting big gals is valid. My gal is about 15th, which on the face of it is a big galaxy. However, in such a small inactive universe, most of the players in that gal (and gals around it), are small. Only the top 5 gals can be called big these days, as getting 1 big exiled player in our gal would pout us back in top 10 easily enough.
Indeed, I checked it out, and F-Crew is not the only alliance hitting your galaxy last night (and we're probably about as miffed about that as you are) - you only have one F-Crrew wave on you (and contrary to your implication above, he has less value than you), which I think is fair enough since you are a legitimate target. I'm sorry if structure killers have been sent, but that's down to the individual - as an alliance they are discouraged, and you only have to look at Wakey's ramblings about them to see the general kind of opinion we have about it.

And I concur the galaxy situation is a pain, but many of the top galaxies contain members of ours.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:55   #17
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticYoshi
I always thought that some sort of limit should be put on hitting people below your size. So if you hit someone 50% of your value, you'd only get 50% of the normal roids you'd get. Same with ship stealing etc.
A basic idea and not refined but it is what's used in other games like Utopia and works well.
Surely xp serves this purpose? Or do you want something which keeps the basher's value lower

Quote:
Last round I was a zik in an OK galaxy which was ranked 70-90th most of the time. As soon as I reached 2-3mill I would get daily incomings from 4-5mill+ people (who could only just hit me) after my ships. The rest of the smaller ppl in the gal would also get incoming from planets who could only just hit them.
Worse gal, same experience, except the planets in my galaxy were too small for anyone to hit them

Quote:
I think structure killers would be ok if they didn't destroy stuff based on how many types of buildings you have at the time and the number they can kill at a time was reduce. It's very annoying when you get structure killers incoming and have say 50 amps, 3 factories and all the factories die because they make up 3/4 of your types of structures. Whoever came up with that thinking deserves shooting in my humble opinion
I didn't know that was how it worked, how amusing.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 11:57   #18
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticYoshi
However when a galaxy like yours is being hit *everyone* needs to be covered so they don't defend in gal. That's not bashing it's just tactics. Rather then random incomings in a smaller gal you tend to just get them all one one day of the week :P
3 waves on planets with only 200 roids, waves including structire killers. Thats not covering for the sake of getting planets covered, its twatty.

And its happening on gals every single day.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:00   #19
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

JonnyBGood - xp does serve that purpose and has been a good introduction to the game. However, as you can see it doesn't stop people hitting people at the bottom limit of their value for cheap roids and ships. If a system was introduced so that roids and ship stealing was reduced the lower below your value you hit, I'm sure it would help stop newbie bashing
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:01   #20
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSP
Indeed, I checked it out, and F-Crew is not the only alliance hitting your galaxy last night (and we're probably about as miffed about that as you are) - you only have one F-Crrew wave on you (and contrary to your implication above, he has less value than you), which I think is fair enough since you are a legitimate target.

And I concur the galaxy situation is a pain, but many of the top galaxies contain members of ours.

I understand its more than one alliance, but its still 3 waves, and this still happens a hell of a lot, so my points stand on needing to do something as people are quitting (my gal alone has lost several ppl this round who have quit because of it, my gal is not alone).
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:01   #21
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Forest read TSP's post, only 1 of those waves is F-Crew, and hes a smaller value person, if hes using sk's then shame on him but ure a valid target for him, we wernt aware of the other alliance attacking till jpg's were done, u think we should pull our gal attack because of that? its unfortunate ure getting bashed and as someone who hasnt had someone with smaller value attack me yet i sympathise, but its not us

I agree something needs to be done, were just defending accusations F-Crew bashes
i did edit my first post to include my opinions on ure 3 points, apologies for not doing that sooner
ure point is valid and things need to be done, but wild accusations against allys arnt the way to do it
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:04   #22
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticYoshi
JonnyBGood - xp does serve that purpose and has been a good introduction to the game. However, as you can see it doesn't stop people hitting people at the bottom limit of their value for cheap roids and ships. If a system was introduced so that roids and ship stealing was reduced the lower below your value you hit, I'm sure it would help stop newbie bashing
I wouldn't be sure of that. It certainly would reduce the benefits of newbie bashing but it would also mean that those planets being bashed would remain inside value-range for the bashing planets for longer. I don't think most people who newbie bash are doing it because they think it'll help them win the game. Mostly they're just doing it because they're unimaginative faggots who are far more comfortable with low-risk, low-profit attacks as opposed to high-risk, high-profit ones.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:05   #23
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Yeah Forest, I imagine they're looking for ships. Tho if they were half inteligent they would know that someone with your value/score knows how to run their ships. Indeed it's happened to my gal, which is top 10. A few people have less then 200 roids and get like 5 waves when the gal gets waved. They just move their ships out the way, well if people want to waste their fleets that way that's fine by me :P

BTW the attack on your gal today shouldn't be as heavy as it should be (especially on the smaller roid targets). I think a couple of attacks got combined from different alliances by 'accient', heh.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:06   #24
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
Ok I would like this to stay a sensible discussion on the future of the game. If it turns into a flame fest, I will simply remove it.

Now, this is senseless bashing, and is just driving people away from the game. I am only still playing (barely) because of my friends.
The disapponting thing for me is this is small alliances (f-crew and vgn in this instance). If larger alliances did this, there would be a big outcry of how we were ruining the game, but in the main, the top alliances are all at war with each other, and its the smaller alliances doing these galaxy attacks (which happen on a gal often during the small player base, far too often, so small players have no chance to rebuild.

Its the smaller alliances such as f-crew (im using them as an example as they are one of the so-called champions of the smaller player), that are actually driving the new players away, and they are doing less for the game than the big alliances.

1) Do you like structure killers
2) Should the bash limit by higher
3) Should we have some kind of limit on the smaller planets and the amount of incoming they can have. For instance, if 50% size of average planets, you can only have 1 wave attacking every 4 ticks or something.
1) Do you like structure killers - It is war that is the idea of the game destroy thy neighbour and become stronger and succesful.

2) Should the bash limit by higher bash limit has worked fine as it is for many rounds leave it as it is.

3) Should we have some kind of limit on the smaller planets and the amount of incoming they can have. For instance, if 50% size of average planets, you can only have 1 wave attacking every 4 ticks or something. -No as it can be abused to help the bigger players grow as they dont need to rely on backing up there smaller comrads to grow as often. what i mean is if a alliance attacks there gal they can therfore concentrate on defending the bigger players and ignore the smaller ones until it is dealt with.

4)f-crew bashing small gals. all round we have been attacking the top 15 gals due to the fact we want your xp/roids and ships there is good reason to attack a gal with rubbish value. unlike sum of the other top alliances who send a guy to a f-crew player for example where the attacker is 3 times the value of our player.

and you say we are wrong this thread is just Pure BS. be a man and take your beating like one and stop crying like a baby just because u are getting slaughtered. i been slaughtered all roundnot once since tick 72 have i been able to get to 300 roids and keep them for 1 week. so grow up or quit
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:08   #25
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Mad_Keg
Forest read TSP's post, only 1 of those waves is F-Crew, and hes a smaller value person, if hes using sk's then shame on him but ure a valid target for him, we wernt aware of the other alliance attacking till jpg's were done, u think we should pull our gal attack because of that? its unfortunate ure getting bashed and as someone who hasnt had someone with smaller value attack me yet i sympathise, but its not us

I agree something needs to be done, were just defending accusations F-Crew bashes
i did edit my first post to include my opinions on ure 3 points, apologies for not doing that sooner
ure point is valid and things need to be done, but wild accusations against allys arnt the way to do it

I dont know if he is or not, as 1 planet isnt, and i havent looked to see which is f-crew.

i would like to say once more, its not the alliance im having a go at (i wish i hadnt named u now, but i didnt think wakey would mind), but rather its the system im having a go at.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:09   #26
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Having run a top 20 alliance which focused heavily on training noobs and enjoying the game I can see why gals like yours become nice targets. From an alliance point of view, sometimes your players just need training and/or a morale boost. This unfortunately can lead to a bit of bashing but its easier to teach a player on the strengths of a victory than help them recover from a defeat.

To your questions
1) I don't think anyone actually likes structure killers. I have possessed no more than 15 (max at a time) this round at a time, all stolen of course, which suggests that there are very few of them out there in the universe.

2) Bash limit: Should it be higher, sometimes I agree with you. The problem now is that the game has been forced into this style of play where one race is better against certain other races forcing you to specialise, eg xans sending ????K fighters at Ziks. So it doesn't matter about bash limit so much as someone can normally always get through because of the stats.

3) Reduce nooblet incoming: I have suggested this before over several rounds. I have suggested that planets cannot recieve more than say 5 hostle fleets in a 24hr period. Would reduce waving/bashing and help improve morale.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:11   #27
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I wouldn't be sure of that. It certainly would reduce the benefits of newbie bashing but it would also mean that those planets being bashed would remain inside value-range for the bashing planets for longer. I don't think most people who newbie bash are doing it because they think it'll help them win the game. Mostly they're just doing it because they're unimaginative faggots who are far more comfortable with low-risk, low-profit attacks as opposed to high-risk, high-profit ones.
I mentioned utopia before, which has tons of players in it, many more then PA. It has a system I've mentioned and it does work. If you hit someone who is below your value you get pretty rubbish gains. Even the really stupid people I see playing the game soon learn that they don't hit below their size.
So if in PA you hit someone 50% your size, who has 150 roids and say 1k ships to steal you'd only get 18 roids and 250 ships - some sort of limit anyway that stops people bashing for the fun of it. In fact that's being generous - in utopia you'd probably get about 10% of normal gains for it.
Even if players are stupid - if they hit someone small and got really bad gains they'd probably try and hit someone nearer their size next time.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:11   #28
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
Ok I would like this to stay a sensible discussion on the future of the game. If it turns into a flame fest, I will simply remove it.

I now at this moment have 3 waves of incoming.

Wave 1 = 400 bships
Wave 2 = 2500 Frigs
Wave 3 = 2000 Cruisers
Structure killers are sent (again)
I have 200 roids.
My whole gal has the same, and this has happened all round to me, and others in other galaxies.

Now, this is senseless bashing, and is just driving people away from the game. I am only still playing (barely) because of my friends.
The disapponting thing for me is this is small alliances (f-crew and vgn in this instance). If larger alliances did this, there would be a big outcry of how we were ruining the game, but in the main, the top alliances are all at war with each other, and its the smaller alliances doing these galaxy attacks (which happen on a gal often during the small player base, far too often, so small players have no chance to rebuild.

Its the smaller alliances such as f-crew (im using them as an example as they are one of the so-called champions of the smaller player), that are actually driving the new players away, and they are doing less for the game than the big alliances.

So, based on the facts above, please discuss....

1) Do you like structure killers
2) Should the bash limit by higher
3) Should we have some kind of limit on the smaller planets and the amount of incoming they can have. For instance, if 50% size of average planets, you can only have 1 wave attacking every 4 ticks or something.
If you have any proof of F-Crew sending Structure killers on attacks or bashing considerable smaller planets I would like to see it but we have been pushing the xp gains side of the game and we dont support structure killers. Members in F-Crew have had lectures off me simply for even having them in their fleet let alone using them and people have been removed from the alliance for continually using them. While there are alliances whom probally employ the tactics your talking about you should know better Forest than even accuse an alliance run by me to do so.

Oh and the fact that 90% of the time that I have seen a 1up member accusing F-Crew of hitting their galaxies its been wrong and the fact 90% of the time we do hit a 1up planet that they claim it was someone else thenim not holding 1ups intel in very high regard [Edit - having read further replies since yes your galaxy was hit by us so on this occasion your intel is right]

1) Structure killers shouldnt be in the game imho, or if they are they should maybe only target things that amps and not factories so that its not crippling a planet but has a tactical use still

2) I have always been against the bash limit in general, imho the bash limit focuses bashing more as it gets higher and actually justifies bashing in peoples minds. The amount of times I have complained to someone going in to smash a player much smaller and have been told "they are in the bash limit so its fine" is ridiculous.

The anti bashing method should imho be done through negative xp. You expand the xp range from 0-20 to -20 - 20. You are giving people an option and you allow those who xp whore for position and cant be touched to be attacked. If people want to go and hit a smaller player then they can but if they do they will damage their score and if they do it too much they will seriously hinder their chances. You also actually discourage multi waving by people on planets that are small because while it might nit be negative when they launch it could very well be by the time they land so they will have to be more careful.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:14   #29
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

well i got to say i love the structure killer. i only use them as a last resort. or when i am seeking revenge from the numerous beatings i recieved from LCH this round
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:14   #30
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by madman2k30III
1) Do you like structure killers - It is war that is the idea of the game destroy thy neighbour and become stronger and succesful.

2) Should the bash limit by higher bash limit has worked fine as it is for many rounds leave it as it is.

3) Should we have some kind of limit on the smaller planets and the amount of incoming they can have. For instance, if 50% size of average planets, you can only have 1 wave attacking every 4 ticks or something. -No as it can be abused to help the bigger players grow as they dont need to rely on backing up there smaller comrads to grow as often. what i mean is if a alliance attacks there gal they can therfore concentrate on defending the bigger players and ignore the smaller ones until it is dealt with.

4)f-crew bashing small gals. all round we have been attacking the top 15 gals due to the fact we want your xp/roids and ships there is good reason to attack a gal with rubbish value. unlike sum of the other top alliances who send a guy to a f-crew player for example where the attacker is 3 times the value of our player.

and you say we are wrong this thread is just Pure BS. be a man and take your beating like one and stop crying like a baby just because u are getting slaughtered. i been slaughtered all roundnot once since tick 72 have i been able to get to 300 roids and keep them for 1 week. so grow up or quit
Interesting how what you ahve posted as flames, actually brings up some valid points.

Yes it is a war game, and war involves killing structures. However, how much war will you be able to have once everyone has quit. We have seen this round alliances fold/disband etc in unprecedented numbers. How much longer can this game last like it?

The bash limit clearly isnt working, as smaller players are quitting due to being bashed.

Bashing small gals? See my reply on the gals in top 15-5 actually being small

I am not crying because I am being slaughtered, I am putting forward decent arguments to try and make the game last longer than the 2 rounds I am predicting at the moment.

Grow up or quit? Here you hit the nail on the head. I am here posting, as I am a valued member of the community,a nd feel I can help in some way (in my eyes at least). However, everyone else is just quitting. Go figure.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:14   #31
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

heh F-Crew always fiercly defends its pride :P and wakeys ill, some strange hamster disease, he ate a dodgy grass pellet. But yeah apologies for argument, ure points on bashing are very valid and something that does need to be sorted
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:19   #32
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
If you have any proof of F-Crew sending Structure killers on attacks or bashing considerable smaller planets I would like to see it but we have been pushing the xp gains side of the game and we dont support structure killers. Members in F-Crew have had lectures off me simply for even having them in their fleet let alone using them and people have been removed from the alliance for continually using them. While there are alliances whom probally employ the tactics your talking about you should know better Forest than even accuse an alliance run by me to do so.

The anti bashing method should imho be done through negative xp. You expand the xp range from 0-20 to -20 - 20. You are giving people an option and you allow those who xp whore for position and cant be touched to be attacked. If people want to go and hit a smaller player then they can but if they do they will damage their score and if they do it too much they will seriously hinder their chances. You also actually discourage multi waving by people on planets that are small because while it might nit be negative when they launch it could very well be by the time they land so they will have to be more careful.

I think I kinda addressed the sk thing in regards to f-crew earlier, but to make it clear, i was referring to VGN on that score. It is something sued by other alilances. (Sorry if you didnt get my meaning, sometimes what i have in my head doesnt always come across on paper, cause i suck)

I actually like the idea of negative xp. Done correctly we could even see people who land on tiny targets dropping ranks, and that would indeed put them off.
Could be worth a lot of further discussion imo.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:19   #33
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
1) Do you like structure killers
2) Should the bash limit by higher
3) Should we have some kind of limit on the smaller planets and the amount of incoming they can have. For instance, if 50% size of average planets, you can only have 1 wave attacking every 4 ticks or something.
First let me just say that your stunt declaring war against an alliance wasnt prolly the smartest thing you've ever done. Especially not spewing out your coords on AD, it was only harming yourself and your galaxy. But then again, you raise some very important questions.

1) No, I dont like structurekillers, but the way this game have been going, structurekillers are the only thing you can do to efficently take out an alliance imho. Fleetcathes work to some extent but not much.

2) bashlimit should prolly be set higher the lower score you have. If you for example have a high score and low value you shouldnt be set at to small to hit. This to avoid some of the XP whoring i've seen so far

3) I only see 1 -one- valid point against your suggestion, and that is if he's a scanner. Scanners are often frowned upon as something you want to hit, and take out. but other than that i dont see a problem with making the size smaller. Maybe add something about constructions, f.ex if you have over a certain amount of structures the rules doesnt apply to you or somtn.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:24   #34
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
First let me just say that your stunt declaring war against an alliance wasnt prolly the smartest thing you've ever done. Especially not spewing out your coords on AD, it was only harming yourself and your galaxy. But then again, you raise some very important questions.

On the contrary I think it was a wise and calculated thing to do. This has been coming to a head for a long time, and its something the community has to address sooner rather than later.

If that means I have to cause my planet to be roided once or twice then so be it, I can handle that for the good of the game.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:25   #35
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
The_Mad_Keg its not bshit, its happening this minute.

4:7 is my gal, feel free to check it out.

Your point about hitting big gals is valid. My gal is about 15th, which on the face of it is a big galaxy. However, in such a small inactive universe, most of the players in that gal (and gals around it), are small. Only the top 5 gals can be called big these days, as getting 1 big exiled player in our gal would pout us back in top 10 easily enough.
(wtf top 15 is quite high)
u call yourself small !!!!!!!!! u are talking bshit man and btw vgn and f-crew bashing people is also crap u just say this cause u want war with them /me thinks about the arrival of you in #vgn and u calling people bashers aint such a good thing and btw all people hate sk's even i do so i don't have them
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:27   #36
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
Interesting how what you ahve posted as flames, actually brings up some valid points.

Yes it is a war game, and war involves killing structures. However, how much war will you be able to have once everyone has quit. We have seen this round alliances fold/disband etc in unprecedented numbers. How much longer can this game last like it?

The bash limit clearly isnt working, as smaller players are quitting due to being bashed.

Bashing small gals? See my reply on the gals in top 15-5 actually being small

I am not crying because I am being slaughtered, I am putting forward decent arguments to try and make the game last longer than the 2 rounds I am predicting at the moment.

Grow up or quit? Here you hit the nail on the head. I am here posting, as I am a valued member of the community,a nd feel I can help in some way (in my eyes at least). However, everyone else is just quitting. Go figure.
maybe i was a lil harsh in my post and i am sorry. atm this game is stagnating. this game need a major revamp i am that bored of this game that i am trying a new game warring factions that makes PA look like a adding up game that u get in preschool. it got all the same stuff as this game except for u can set up colonies and you got to manage your economies and fleets. maybe jolt can learn from this.

this is my top 10 of what would make this game better

1. eonium fuel for fleets brought back as it limits fleet sizes
2. paying maintenace on your fleets
3. the ability to set up colonies
4. a currency so u can make money to maintain your empire
4. a structured economy with universal trading stations
5. the ability to create your own ships based on research
6. a larger R&D tree but u have to invest resourses or currency to do it
7. the ability to share tech with other members.
8. multiple galaxies with multiple planets to colonise and reinforce
9. 4 races 4 gals which means more race specific teamwork
10. destroy the bash limit as it wouldn't be needed if all of this is implemented
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:28   #37
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

So hylands, u say that everyone hates sk's. two questions then

1) why, if they are so hated, has vgn hc condoned there use.

and 2) if they are so hated, why do we still have them in the game?
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:32   #38
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
On the contrary I think it was a wise and calculated thing to do. This has been coming to a head for a long time, and its something the community has to address sooner rather than later.

If that means I have to cause my planet to be roided once or twice then so be it, I can handle that for the good of the game.
I can guess your galaxy is also very happy about your contribution to add something for the good of the game.

I've seen 1up waves on smaller targets than you are to a much bigger extent. But I guess when it comes to your own alliance being bad, then its no problem.

I dont like structurekillers and I urge my players not to use them, only in either a) we are at war, or b) if anyone who has attacked you have done it.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:34   #39
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Noooooo don't bring eonium fuel back. Evil evil evil. Was amusing in round 1/2 tho to see the top 100 players having to save up to launch their fleets. Not amusing when you yourself have a big fleet tho, hehe
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:37   #40
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

if i remember eonium as fuel did stop newbie bashin and made the game more fun imho as you had to save up enough and risk wasting that e on a recalling attack or make a good gain. those were the good old days
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:39   #41
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I can guess your galaxy is also very happy about your contribution to add something for the good of the game.

I've seen 1up waves on smaller targets than you are to a much bigger extent. But I guess when it comes to your own alliance being bad, then its no problem.

I dont like structurekillers and I urge my players not to use them, only in either a) we are at war, or b) if anyone who has attacked you have done it.

My galaxy is my own affair. Most had decided to quit anyway after the things that have happened all round. Again I state the ramifications are people quitting, which is helping the gal die.

And 1up attacks and vgn attacks are two different things.
VGN is doing gal attacks, so have no reason to bash planets into oblivion. !up is attacking those who actively seek to destroy us, its a proper war and we are hitting actives who are hitting us. VGN are just hitting randoms, and inactives as much as poss.

Also, if you care to look at rankings, and size, 1up can not get that big by hitting smaller than we can. We hit the biggest we can for most gains, thats how rounds, and wars are won. Thats the same for most top alliances.
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:48   #42
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by madman2k30III
if i remember eonium as fuel did stop newbie bashin and made the game more fun imho as you had to save up enough and risk wasting that e on a recalling attack or make a good gain. those were the good old days
Actually it made bashing more frequent as you couldnt afford to have to recall, you had to pick tragets you knew you could land on which meant joining up to totally overkill or picking easy target.

Also it left players with an inability to run their ships due to lack of resources to run their fleets which makes it easier for people to lose their ships
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:50   #43
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

They were only good old days if you were small and didn't need to worry about fuel You didn't need big fleets to hit smaller planets, the only thing it affected was the big players launching lots of their ships at each other and running away from others. Maybe more tactical to an extent but I don't think it added much to the game really
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 12:55   #44
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

i got to say i am really bored of this game i may just have a free account next round and donate my 4 credits to f-crew so they can be strong again next round, and start commoiting myself to warring factions whixh is a lot more structured and fun than this game. bout 50 galaxies with 150-200 planets in each of them with multiple members the ability to steal colonies form other players and a economy what else can you ask for in a game?
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 13:05   #45
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by hylands
(wtf top 15 is quite high)
u call yourself small !!!!!!!!! u are talking bshit man and btw vgn and f-crew bashing people is also crap u just say this cause u want war with them /me thinks about the arrival of you in #vgn and u calling people bashers aint such a good thing and btw all people hate sk's even i do so i don't have them
I agree that top 15 is pretty high and it puts any new players in your galaxies a much better chance of success than those in the smaller galaxies whom are being constantly bashed alot worse than you do. Even if they lack the alliance support they atleast have a good galaxy to back them up.

Value wise our members arent that good, their galaxies are often too weak to build a good value, our average for example is 850k, your galaxy avg is 1.3mill. That means hitting galaxies like yours is hitting a large galaxy in for us, it wouldnt be the case if it was 1up hitting you but you have to look at it relativly
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 13:08   #46
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Surface attack result at The Moment (4:7:4)
Light Factory : 1
Heavy Factory : 1
Metal Refinery : 1
Crystal Refinery : 1
Security Centre : 2
Wave Amplifier : 3


I had 150 roids when that just landed. Is there ANY point other than making someone quit?
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 13:29   #47
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Tho not quite as depressing as that, someone just covert opped me for my heavy factory (which surely should go along with Sks!). Which will take 9 hours to get back and stops me building half of my important ships. Always seems to be the factories that die doesn't it even tho they consist of like 2% of all your structures? heh
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 13:34   #48
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Yeah, im being co-opped too now (btu im immune ahahahaha )
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 13:46   #49
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

Im refering to rd3/4/5 in this reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Actually it made bashing more frequent as you couldnt afford to have to recall, you had to pick tragets you knew you could land on which meant joining up to totally overkill or picking easy target.
I'm not sure about which kind of relation of big->small everybody is talking here. For a big planet it wasnt much a problem about Eonium to bash a small planet because it didnt need a big fleet. However it wasted 1 fleetslot and that was "often" more troublesome.

There where funnier ways to make sure you could land as a big planet - for example by threatening any defender from outside his gal/cluster to fleetcatch his returning fleet or defend their targets - all depending on Eo again so beeing limited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Also it left players with an inability to run their ships due to lack of resources to run their fleets which makes it easier for people to lose their ships
You seem to talk about really big planets here or you imply running for days. Stopping a real big planet from running due to low Eo, was actually a good thing IMHO as it is hard enough to gain a large enough fleet to achieve this and keeping that up for several waves was nearly impossible against a big planet. So the lack of Eo was a tactical element which could be used to hurt big planets. Not small or medium ones though.

On the other hand it was difficult enough to achieve that because to run your fleet for 2 or 3 waves, you could just do a single launch in-gal which wasnt that costly and often it would make sense anyway due to your gal-m8s beeing covered too. I think if you actually find cases where a big planets fleet was crushed due to lack of Eo, then a) they where rare and b) it was fine that way.

Eo launch costs also opened up new possibilities for deals with much smaller planets. A new player could get a deal with a big planet to init a certain amount of Eo rocks for a while and afterwards get massively pushed by the big planet (fleet escort and defence). Now you may cry "illegal farming" but seriously i am not sure if that was a bad thing - due to the restricted fleetslots a big planet couldnt do that with too many planets and it gave a handful of small unallied players a chance to have fun in PA instead of beeing continually on the run.

I dont know if i ever played PA or a clone without Eo launchcosts, but i remember Eo beeing a nice additional strategical element to consider once you did grow really big
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Unread 11 Sep 2005, 13:52   #50
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Re: Alliances bashing players and making them quit

And to be honest after reading this many comments how bad and mean structure killers are - up to the point that they are frowned upon and used as reason to remove players from alliances - i think to myself it must be fun to sign up with a handfull of friends and heavily invest in SKs to land on as big alliance planets as we can

If the game balance would give that a chance, it sounds like fun.
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