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20 Dec 2011, 21:16
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#151
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Tiamat - can you please enlighten me on the rationale behind the scarab? - I see absolutely no use for that ship - itīs not a part of a pod fleet setup for cath - neither is it a def ship as the beetle - got the exact same stats - for T and init.
If a ship doesnīt have any use at all better to leave it out entirely.
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20 Dec 2011, 21:46
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#152
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
I would have made it into a killship.
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20 Dec 2011, 22:00
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#153
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killeah
Tiamat - can you please enlighten me on the rationale behind the scarab? - I see absolutely no use for that ship - itīs not a part of a pod fleet setup for cath - neither is it a def ship as the beetle - got the exact same stats - for T and init.
If a ship doesnīt have any use at all better to leave it out entirely.
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I've already asked
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20 Dec 2011, 22:32
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#154
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Hmm, now that's an idea. I could make it into a really slow kill ship. I'd have to Move it to a de, but i'd have no problems doing that. Init like 8, so it'd still fire after all the other shit but before zik. I'd prolly also switch it to Co/Fi/Fr. With Effs of like 360/390.
And yeah i am a bit worried about Cr being too strong. It is suspectable to De def along with Juggernaut + tara def. The pirate isn't that strong. And i have been slowly dropping the Eff on the Wyvren its gona stay where it is now.
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21 Dec 2011, 00:05
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#155
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So what?
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 606
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
????????????????
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Yeah, I was reading that as a production cost bonus. Not my most impressive moment.
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21 Dec 2011, 00:21
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#156
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Mercenary
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Todmorden
Posts: 1,192
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
First of all i did not make ter De redundant, they still have many attack options it just means they aren't the dominant race. Sorry for making your life a bit harder. They still have the phoenix which will beat any fi/co right now unless teamed with emp(shocker). Ter Cr is still very strong vs fr/de but is easily stopped by juggernauts/pirates. And as for that De that you are soo fond of. They still have many solo attack options but Ter as the race no longer have 3 of the fastest ships in the uni(drake/pheonix/Wvyren) you will have to settle for only 2 of them.
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I didn't see them as the dominant race before you made the changes...actually they still only had 2 before you changed anything anyway as for some obscure reason you made the phoenix init4 from init7 and to a fi/co targeting co, may i ask why? They already had the Pegasus, or is it that every race MUST have an eta7 anti fi/co ship?? In-fact they only have one of the "fastest ships in uni" now in the wyvern..
I am merely asking why these changes were made as it now means Ter DE is targeted by a kill ship from each meta-class before it has a chance to fire back, something only one other strategy has at the moment, zik fr (but seeing as zik steals this is always generally the case).
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiamat
And Ter De can solo and can also team up with Etd De. So your just complaining because Ter is no longer the BEST strat, and thus the changes were made. Because they were too strong. Ter De still has planety of attack options Solo, most of them into Zik, they can also attack into Etd Co and will still be able to attack into Cath. However I removed there attacking into Xan so just live with it. If ter/Etd De team up they can attack into most Fi/co planets.
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ETD Co? lol, I like how you have illustrated your point perfectly by naming a strat that requires a steal to be of any use...
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21 Dec 2011, 00:22
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#157
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Sk's have been added and scarab has been fixed.
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21 Dec 2011, 00:33
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#158
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Colt, Before the change to the Ghost it would have left ter with:
Phoenix init 4 anti fi/co(faster than all fi/co that can fire back)
Drake init 5 anti fr( Faster than all Fr that can fire back)
Wyvren init 5 anti fr/de ( faster than all fr/de that can fire back)
And I was not ready to commit to all 3 of there meta classes being that strong. So I had to nerf one of them a bit. So i decided instead of dropping drakes init to instead just make Ghost fire before it the way i had it originally, except this time i dropped the eff on the ghost both a/c and d/c so its not nearly as good as it once was.
As for Ter De, it may not have as many attack openings as it once did but it does still have solo attack openings. Zik(Fi/fr/cr(with not massed pirates)) Cat Bs(as it targets at t2 and not as effective) Cat Co even because of the value ratio of De:Co,
With Etd De team up they can attack, xan fi, Ter cr/De and Etd bs/co.
So if you dont think that Ter De is good prove to me what other fleet can attack that well.
xan Fr certainly can not. Xan fr can attack Cat Co, Xan Fi, and with the right fleet make up can attack both Ter De and Etd De. So please do some calcs before you bring me a bullshit response about how I made Ter too weak. As it stands they are STILL the strongest fleet out there. So more tweaking to be done.
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21 Dec 2011, 02:08
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#159
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt
for some reason you made the phoenix init4 from init7 and to a fi/co targeting co, may i ask why?
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On a FR/DE strat there'd be no cath/emp ships, so a fi/co strat of xan/cath would land on anyone. Sure, there could be cross-def vsh ingal but there was no ship that could defend against fi/co on the alliance eta. Basically making ter/etd/xan/zik fr/de strat overly vulnerable to lolwaves and fleetcatches.
His goal was to make every race/metaclass viable, and leaving both CR/BS and FR/DE strategies without an in-alliance anti-FI/CO ship made each strat excessively vulnerable to being raped.
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21 Dec 2011, 06:23
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#160
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
First of all i did not make ter De redundant, they still have many attack options it just means they aren't the dominant race. Sorry for making your life a bit harder. They still have the phoenix which will beat any fi/co right now unless teamed with emp(shocker). Ter Cr is still very strong vs fr/de but is easily stopped by juggernauts/pirates. And as for that De that you are soo fond of. They still have many solo attack options but Ter as the race no longer have 3 of the fastest ships in the uni(drake/pheonix/Wvyren) you will have to settle for only 2 of them.
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The fact that the wyvern is fastest init kill ship is mitigated by the fact that there are 4 ships targeting it with emp, two of which are t1, all of which make ally defense time.
While there are also 4 emp ships targeting FR, Only two can make ally travel time, and neither target fr t1.
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22 Dec 2011, 09:00
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#161
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Mercenary
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Todmorden
Posts: 1,192
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by t3k
On a FR/DE strat there'd be no cath/emp ships, so a fi/co strat of xan/cath would land on anyone. Sure, there could be cross-def vsh ingal but there was no ship that could defend against fi/co on the alliance eta. Basically making ter/etd/xan/zik fr/de strat overly vulnerable to lolwaves and fleetcatches.
His goal was to make every race/metaclass viable, and leaving both CR/BS and FR/DE strategies without an in-alliance anti-FI/CO ship made each strat excessively vulnerable to being raped.
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I can understand the CR/BS part, but why on earth would a player forting FR/DE build phoenix? the whole point of forting FR/DE is that you put all your value in those meta classes so that you are hard to roid, you don't waste resources putting it into an off-class ship. If you don't have an alliance eta anti fi/co, then so be it, thats the choice you make....
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22 Dec 2011, 09:04
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#162
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Mercenary
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Todmorden
Posts: 1,192
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
Colt, Before the change to the Ghost it would have left ter with:
Phoenix init 4 anti fi/co(faster than all fi/co that can fire back)
Drake init 5 anti fr( Faster than all Fr that can fire back)
Wyvren init 5 anti fr/de ( faster than all fr/de that can fire back)
And I was not ready to commit to all 3 of there meta classes being that strong. So I had to nerf one of them a bit. So i decided instead of dropping drakes init to instead just make Ghost fire before it the way i had it originally, except this time i dropped the eff on the ghost both a/c and d/c so its not nearly as good as it once was.
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Maybei am wrong, but im pretty sure the phoenix wasnt originally init4 anti fi/co. I seem to remember it being an init7 ship....
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22 Dec 2011, 09:21
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#163
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Mercenary
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Todmorden
Posts: 1,192
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
As for Ter De, it may not have as many attack openings as it once did but it does still have solo attack openings. Zik(Fi/fr/cr(with not massed pirates)) Cat Bs(as it targets at t2 and not as effective) Cat Co even because of the value ratio of De:Co,
With Etd De team up they can attack, xan fi, Ter cr/De and Etd bs/co.
So if you dont think that Ter De is good prove to me what other fleet can attack that well.
xan Fr certainly can not. Xan fr can attack Cat Co, Xan Fi, and with the right fleet make up can attack both Ter De and Etd De. So please do some calcs before you bring me a bullshit response about how I made Ter too weak. As it stands they are STILL the strongest fleet out there. So more tweaking to be done.
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Uhm, Anyone can attack cath, so that point is moot. Basically solo all they can attack is Zik, is what your saying? Whereas Xan fr can attack Xan (fi/fr) Etd (de/bs), Ter (de) and Zik (fr/cr) solo.....
EDIT: I've just noticed you've now changed the init of the Spirit from 4 to 6 so Xan fi is now out of xan fr solo options
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22 Dec 2011, 19:08
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#164
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
So some of you may have noticed some stats changes, most of which were me just testing some idea. However I am reasonably sure I am going to keep the stats as they are for now. I changed the spirit to init 5 and the phantom to init 4. This is something that I overall wanted to avoid but in light of recent events i think making the phoenix and the phantom the same init is an ok change, As t2 v t1.
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23 Dec 2011, 02:46
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#165
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Ridiculous. Should have stopped at the two changes to the terran. You've taken a bad set of stats, taken one step forwards in addressing the overall balance issues, then taken 8 steps back again by basically countering the changes you made. You're not really showing any kind of "understanding" of stats whatsoever. It takes more than just a working comprehension of a battlecalc to understand the importance of statmaking and unfortunately you just don't have what it takes.
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23 Dec 2011, 03:59
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#166
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
There is no such thing as a set of stats that makes everyone happy. For now I am happy with the stats as they are. Tbh the Phoenix was messing up everything and I might just revert it back to way it was.
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23 Dec 2011, 07:40
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#167
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Then just dont have the phoenix - just change it to a FR class ship targetting DE with a mediocre int or something...
Why does Terran have 2 eta 7 ships when it has no eta 7 pods and no way of getting them
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23 Dec 2011, 09:46
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#168
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
I liked that Idea better for fixing the Ter Problem. While still keeping to t3k's suggestion. I moved the Phoenix to a Fr that targets De/Cr at low init, and the Harpy is now a Co that shoots Fi/Co at a slow init as well. I also switched the targeting on the Pegasus to Co/Fi So they can attack into Etd Co pretty well And since the Phoenix fires at the centaur before it, etd with low value'd De becomes a nice target to attakc with high valued phoenix.
Ter are fixed now. They still have an ally eta anti fi/co, a strong(and not overpowered) De fleet, and an offensive heavy Cr fleet.
Xan Are not longer gimped as much. They are still weak to Drakes and Emp+ anything really. But thats usually how it goes.
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23 Dec 2011, 17:16
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#169
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
What seemed to be quite attack oriented stats have begun to look, tiresome and defensive.
Itīs a shame as it prevents lands overall, and the factor of gaining roids and xp when wars are fought.
let me illustrate:
Etd DE - canīt land anywhere - Solo
IF:
ter builds phoenix
xan builds ghosts
zik builds cutters
etd builds centaurs
cath builds vipers (and even the anyone can roid cath doesnīt apply here as the numbers you need to outmanouver T1 DE viper - uni eta -1 on DE is too silly to even make a calc of)
And I know you will say oh but a teamup with TER DE they can attack everything, correct - but that is irrelevant for this post.
I would like you to get back to your original idea about every roiding fleet being able to attack atleast 1 race (that isnīt cath).
so go through zik/ter/etd/xan again please - find 1 race for each of their fleets where they can land without having Init against them.
it would do three things.
1. Leave players who solo a fair chance to do so, without the help of a big and facy ally strat and available teamups
2. Give allies a wider range of offensive actions when warring other allies (draining fleets on targets that canīt selfcover etc.)
3. in overall endorse an attack oriented way of playing, where change of roids are more dominant than keeping them (that is imo the most fun way of playing PA)
if you donīt think itīs worth it fair enough, I would like an argumented response of why though
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23 Dec 2011, 18:51
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#170
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Bi-Winning
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nfi
Posts: 290
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
After 44 rounds why on earth are people still making stats, why not just adjust a few of the older ones which actually worked well?
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23 Dec 2011, 19:28
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#171
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Because it is easier to pretend changing the stats keeps the game interesting than it is to actually make the game interesting.
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23 Dec 2011, 19:37
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#172
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Phoenix -> init 9
Bomber -> init 7
Centaur -> init 8
Etd can now attack into Ter De and possibly into ter Cr with the right fleet composition. They can also attack into Zik Cr possibly and all Fi/Co planet.
Ter retain there ability to attack zik. Zik still attack Cath with relative ease. Cath still stomp over Xan, and Xan can roid etd with anything but fi Vs De.
So the solo attack options have all been restored.
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23 Dec 2011, 20:11
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#173
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
And the Phoenix is back to useless.
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23 Dec 2011, 20:25
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#174
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
No Phoenix is still a good def ship when paired with other Fr or Emp. Not every ship has to have faster init and high damage to be good. Like i've said many times ter don't need anymore help they are already too good.
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23 Dec 2011, 20:45
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#175
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
Not every ship has to have faster init and high damage to be good.
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But having neither often means it's bad.
I never said Ter was bad, either, just that the Phoenix is a waste of space as it is. Only situation I can think of where it's usable is for a scanner in a Xan alliance...
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23 Dec 2011, 21:07
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#176
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
The problem Tia has is with his stance on not having same targetting ships
Thats why the ships he has struggled to incoporate have been the nix and the scarab.
With Etd/Zik you can hide the spare ship in the fact they can have 3 roiding fleets by stealing fi/co pods
With xan they are weak overall so having a third backwards class fi/co and fr/de ship kind of helps with roiding/deffing
The same kind of applies to Cat as you can make the spare ship a 'kill ship' which gives its special uses in fleet setups
His stance falls down with Terran as it doesnt have a 'special ability' as a race (cloak, steal, emp). Everything is kill and normally the spare ship would be lost in an backwards class cr/bs ship that targets itself - but he cant do that and is therefore struggling.
The best he could do is make the Nix FR class and make it mediocre - i agree the int is a little high but apart from that its not that bad and so what if its not used - its just a solution to an ongoing problem - it hasnt really made Terran weaker or stronger so its solved in my eyes
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23 Dec 2011, 21:13
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#177
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
That sounded like a complete load of crap to me. Is that a problem on my end or what?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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23 Dec 2011, 21:27
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#178
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
partly, however it was explained in rather abrupt sentences.
In general the stats with no same class ship hitting eachother on T1 - limits the range of use - and in effect limits the amount of useful ships each race needs
which is why 2-4 of the current ships on the stats could be left out entirely as noone albeit a selected and unfortunate few is going to build them.
I guess that was kais point atleast.
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23 Dec 2011, 21:34
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#179
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
so what if its not used
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Options.
If you want perfectly balanced stats, we might as well stop at rock paper scissors. But that'd be boring.
I think I understood the rest of your post, though. Basically, Ter suffers from 6-ship syndrome - you have 3 in fr/de that target everything, and two cr/bs ships complemented by a fi/co targeting fi/co. Any other ship is often obsolete, and forcing Ter to build a 4th ship could ever hurt their viability a lot.
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23 Dec 2011, 22:03
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#180
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
In that case i could just remove 1 ship from every race.
Phoenix/Scarab/Corsair/Tycoon/Revenant.
Change as a result of this:
Cutlass fi-Co T1-Fi T2-Co
Pillager co-Fi T1-co-T2 De
Banshee T3- Fi
Suggestions? Comments?
Those being said, I think the stats are fine as is, yes the phoenix/scarab are not that usefull of ships and will likely not get built that often. However they are an option for people to use. If they litterally had no purpose then i'd prolly remove them. But the Scarab can be used in Cath/Etd bs forts that use De for anti fi/co. And the phoenix is viable def option when teamed with Ghosts/cutters. It also can be a semi effective def ship vs zik cr as it still fire before it and has pretty good armor.
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23 Dec 2011, 22:36
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#181
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
I think I understood the rest of your post, though. Basically, Ter suffers from 6-ship syndrome - you have 3 in fr/de that target everything, and two cr/bs ships complemented by a fi/co targeting fi/co. Any other ship is often obsolete, and forcing Ter to build a 4th ship could ever hurt their viability a lot.
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Yes you worded it better than me, thank you.
There is technically no point in building the phoenix as all it does it dilute your de ships strength (the fact they are all the same class and flak for each other) without gaining anything from it, as they target everything between them.
But as Tia said they are a useful compliment ship for fr based anti de and can help against Zik CR. Maybe they are a ship that could be used by a defensive Terran ampwhore in a FR based alliance??
An option maybe...
At the end of the day most players will attempt to go for the '3 ship build' which means lots of ships will go unused depending on how diverse the universe is with alliance race strategies...
It just happens to be that the 2 that stand out the most are the scrab and phoenix...
Maybe we could even throw a complete spanner in the works and say why dont you make the phoenix a BS class syren that targets CR t1 only with an int of 5! That will make Terrans have to think about how they set up the amazing CR fleet they have and wether to dilute it with a BS ship....
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23 Dec 2011, 22:38
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#182
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
But the Scarab can be used in Cath/Etd bs forts that use De for anti fi/co. And the phoenix is viable def option when teamed with Ghosts/cutters. It also can be a semi effective def ship vs zik cr as it still fire before it and has pretty good armor.
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I don't think you should just remove them, maybe not even do anything at all as they don't hurt the stats. But you shouldn't just add a ship because they can be used in a suboptimal/bad strategy.
Cat/Etd Bs 'forts'? If you want to be flooded with Fr/De, sure.
Forcing Ters (who are as good as immune to De) to build Phoenix, just so they can defend Xans/Ziks, rather than making the Xan/Ziks just build more anti-De themselves? Waste of fleets to save minimal resources.
Both highly improbable situations, and the option being there will only bait people into a bad strategy.
Anyway, this is all just nitpicking over a few ships. Overall I think the stats aren't as bad as they're made out to be, I just feel there's a general incoherence to them.
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23 Dec 2011, 22:55
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#183
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
Anyway, this is all just nitpicking over a few ships. Overall I think the stats aren't as bad as they're made out to be, I just feel there's a general incoherence to them.
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I agree with Patrikc here, although from a leymans point of veiw ofc.
I look at the stats now and yes there not perfect and there is races/classes i wouldnt go but i do see lots of playable options and i think it will have alliances mulling over what is best rather than straight going for the obvious setup, which whats wanted yes?
It may actually bring a round of genuine variety as everything is technically playable and winnable and that is what PA needs i feel, to make it a level playing field and quite open instead of closed and obvious and over before it starts.....
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23 Dec 2011, 23:52
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#184
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
Anyway, this is all just nitpicking over a few ships. Overall I think the stats aren't as bad as they're made out to be
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agreed, itīs not the first round we see ships on various races that are of limited or no use, with the system laid down on these stats, itīs more or less impossible to avoid.
And I like the diversity, the stats got atm.
still think BS should go on lvl with CR, as any ally going for CR/BS would be silly not to go CR exclusively.
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24 Dec 2011, 00:56
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#185
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
I think the stats are fine as is
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You've been saying "stats are fine as it is" for the last week. Then you keep making changes. How many times have they been finalized, exactly?
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24 Dec 2011, 02:08
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#186
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
I am Dubbing these Final Baring a Huge oversight. All 5 races have the solo attack options they should, all 6 classes are balanced in a way that i like. Now if we all could start pressuring appocomaster to change salvage then we might have all the round stats figured out with plenty of time for people to figure a strategy.
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R50-55 Faceless
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24 Dec 2011, 12:28
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#187
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Tia if there was an huge oversight someone would have picked up on it already... just call them final and stop fiddling with them.
Bar a moment of sheer brilliance which isnt gonna happen any changes you now makes will only degrade the stats or just shift the problem to another class/race.
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24 Dec 2011, 20:00
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#188
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Ok, Appoco has removed the erroneous ship. Stats are now FINAL.
Edit: Switched the Targeting on the Clipper to De/Fr.
Switched to be slightly weaken De by giving cr/bs a T1 De kill/steal ship.
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R50-55 Faceless
Last edited by Tiamat101; 26 Dec 2011 at 18:02.
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3 Jan 2012, 21:02
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#189
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ToF
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 607
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
whats the point in the spectre? seems completely superfluous.
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[19:10] <coffee-> dont worry about Reincarnate he is an angry man
R1 - 9 none | R10.5 - 13 [ToF] | R14 [Reunion] | R15-17 [Subh] | R18 - 36 PA vacation | R37 [Evo] | R38 [NFI] | R39 & 40 [ToF] | R41 [Omega] | R42 - 47 [ToF][HC]
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3 Jan 2012, 23:01
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#190
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
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3 Jan 2012, 23:15
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#191
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ToF
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 607
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=0l89c0vuhzgncsg
sure the loses are bigger for deffers, but why waste res on a ships that cant be used to attack? attackers wouldnt land that anyways.
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[19:10] <coffee-> dont worry about Reincarnate he is an angry man
R1 - 9 none | R10.5 - 13 [ToF] | R14 [Reunion] | R15-17 [Subh] | R18 - 36 PA vacation | R37 [Evo] | R38 [NFI] | R39 & 40 [ToF] | R41 [Omega] | R42 - 47 [ToF][HC]
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3 Jan 2012, 23:15
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#192
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ToF
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 607
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
also, -1 eta. so more time to send and easier to fake.
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[19:10] <coffee-> dont worry about Reincarnate he is an angry man
R1 - 9 none | R10.5 - 13 [ToF] | R14 [Reunion] | R15-17 [Subh] | R18 - 36 PA vacation | R37 [Evo] | R38 [NFI] | R39 & 40 [ToF] | R41 [Omega] | R42 - 47 [ToF][HC]
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4 Jan 2012, 05:30
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#193
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
At the very least use equal value, Reincarnate. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=mk142pgm1g3jb0v
Spectres = 17k loss, 146k killed
Bombers = 88k loss, 113k killed
(both assuming max salvage)
Spectre get even better the more you get, though they get worse if you start involving Etd Bs.
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4 Jan 2012, 07:47
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#194
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
At the very least use equal value, Reincarnate. http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=mk142pgm1g3jb0v
Spectres = 17k loss, 146k killed
Bombers = 88k loss, 113k killed
(both assuming max salvage)
Spectre get even better the more you get, though they get worse if you start involving Etd Bs.
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so basically.. as i said.. what survives pwns!!
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4 Jan 2012, 18:56
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#195
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
tbh specs are one of the, imo, working off roid ships in these stats. And the fact that the init isnīt alarmingly low as earlier rounds makes xan a balanced race instead of making a a sure choice - like earlier rounds.
In short - keep it as it is
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4 Jan 2012, 21:13
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#196
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Fi/co is playable, DE/Fr is playable, CR?BS is playable... nothing stands out as amazing or awful.
Every class tactic is viable and that is what Tia wanted from his stats, and is what PA needs to stop the boredom and rot of stats bent to one class from stagnating pa round after round.
Heaven forbid you guys might actually have to put some thought into your strategies this round!!! suck it up and get thinking and stop whining ffs the stats are good - leave them alone!
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5 Jan 2012, 01:57
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#197
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
I will once again remind posters to the strategy forums that pointless flaming won't be tolerated. By all means disagree with anyone you'd like about the stats but keep the personal BS out of the thread. Thanks.
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Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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5 Jan 2012, 03:29
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#198
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
I hate to agree with Kai but its true. I made these stats with the intent that no one race stands out above the rest, and that no one class stands out above the rest. Each race/strat comes with its own advantages and disadvantages, honestly that's how PA should be.
The recent rounds have been strongly 1 race or 1 meta class dominated, but now that you actually have consequences to your choices I it might help create a bit more active(emphasis on bit) thought.
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R50-55 Faceless
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5 Jan 2012, 13:56
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#199
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
The recent rounds have been strongly 1 race or 1 meta class dominated, but now that you actually have consequences to your choices I it might help create a bit more active(emphasis on bit) thought.
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I agree (with you and kai - and not hating it even ) - Iīve seen the same agenda on stats for the last 3-4 rounds - it being a mt or st one.
This round actually brings lots of possibilities - especially for ally strat, as each race offers different uni ETA ships (that are worth building - anyway).
So a pure CR/BS or FI/CO ally isnīt pure win (i.e holes in def) . I like the fact that alliance strategy can be altered - so we actually see allies going a certain race/class setup, that suits the gamestats.
Having say two bg's in an ally with a different class/race setup that contemplates the other.
As long as solo lands - and attack options are favorized, Iīm happy - and I do belive itīs being thought of atleast.
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5 Jan 2012, 14:05
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#200
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion
Now weīre just waiting for a hopefully early confirmation that stats are 100% final - and beta tickers - so we can start some testing.
Iīm personally keen on trying out Ter/zik CR - and xan/zik FR.
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