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Unread 14 May 2009, 15:57   #1
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The (sad) future of cricket

First, I'd better say that I fully expect this thread to die a painful death as soon as i submit it, but there may be some cricket fans out there.

Since cricket began (or nigh on), test cricket as been the dominant form of the game, which all aspiring cricketers wanted to play, more than anything else. Problem was that while some tests were exceptionally exciting (surpassing the potential excitement produced in any other form of the game), some could be horrendously boring even for the most ardent cricket fan. The result: One-day cricket, designed to finish in a day and almost guarantee a result. This at no point even nearly challenged test cricket for dominance - apart from arguably in recent years, since test match ticket prices have gone sky high, and its watchable on tv... bit like whats happened to football attendences over the past 10-20yrs.

But still, test cricket remained the #1 form of the game by far. Then 20-20 came long - designed to be played in evenings, thus allowing people to go to the matches after work for a few hours with the family. It was a success, but 20-20 is not cricket - its fun, nothing more, or rather, its a game with "fake" passion generated (comparable to the boardgame risk - people get highl emotional over it, but its just a game). Test cricket is a sport, generating real passion.

However, despite the success of 20-20 - test cricket did remain the #1 form of the sport comfortably - the only form that most people give a damn about. But sadly, very sadly, people soon realised that 20-20 had the potential for mega-bucks. Test cricket and one-day cricket do not. So now, just one year after the first mega-bucks 20-20 league was created (the IPL), you have players suddenly saying that they would rather focus on 20-20 than test cricket (chris gayle today, ravi bopara and probably many others in the past). Its all about money, and while fans like myself are despondent about it all, it is understandable. Most people will go where the money is, though will criticise from a-far if they aren't in that position themselves. Comparable to wayne rooney - if the best everton player had left everton for man utd while he was jsut a supporter, he would have been foaming at the mouth in disgust, probably writing silly death threats. But once he's in that position himself....

So what is the future of cricket? 20-20 leaues will gradually dominate, and more people will get into cricket than at the moment. Indeed, more countries might get into the game as well - maybe even america some day? Since baseball is far inferior. At the same time, 20-20 will be where all the money is - players will be bending over backwards to play in it. I think most of test cricket will die - with only australia and england playing it to any remotely high level (ie, best players playing). Possibly south africa as well. I wish I could say west indies too, but sadly - their entire team only cares about the short game now This can be seen by their effort in the relevant forms of the game. In test matches, theyre very lazy and sloppy and urgh, its irritating to watch. In the short format, they're extremely motivated and perform to an exceptionally high standard in the field. To be honest, England are more or less the opposite (as should be the case for all teams!!!).

My prediction is that in 5yrs, all the best players in the world will be principally playing for big money in 20-20 leagues. Test cricket will still be there, but played by the sub-par players, or those that simply can't play the 20-20 form of the game. Thus test cricket will be devoid of entertaining players - it will get even less popular.

That all said - what about hte ashes?!?! Both england and australia, collectively as nations, care about this sporting event. When england won the 2005 ashes, the papers and street parades were almost what you would expect if england had won the football world cup. It was huge - and goes without saying, nothing in 20-20 could ever remotely generate that kind of excitement.

So will the stars from 20-20 come back to test cricket for the ashes? Will the ashes be the only form of test cricket left? (and if so, as a result over a period of time people will care less and less about the ashes).

I just think cricket as a sport is dying - cricket as an entertainment industry is about to take off bigtime.

Its sad I'm sure a lot of people wish megabucks had never come into the english football league either. Whilst the avg game of football is more exciting (amongst top teams), the sport is irreversibly ruined. Every small team (finishing middle of the top division makes you a small team?!?!?! only because they don't have a billionnaire owner because they don't live in a fashionable part of england) loses their best players to the top teams, will struggle to replace them, might be facing relegation the next year. Urgh!

But football's already dead - cricket isn't... yet Fingers crossed it'll be saved, somehow.
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Unread 14 May 2009, 18:17   #2
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

The one thing I'll say now (because I don't have time to get into a rant about cricket) is that actually, a lot of the struggling football clubs have incredibly rich owners nowadays (moreso than the ones at the top), because the assumption is that they can be bought for a hell of a lot less and then lifted to higher levels. It hasn't really happened, as the likes of Manchester City / Aston Villa / Tottenham Hotspur will all testify. It turns out that having billionaire backing doesn't automatically grant you capable management.
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Unread 14 May 2009, 19:33   #3
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

Correct. But not contradicting anything I said though. All clubs owned by billionnaires are now considered big clubs (if they weren't previously). As such, clubs like Wigan will lose players to said clubs - they probably wouldn't if they didn't have particularly rich owners.

Result: over a period of time the clubs owned by billionnaires will accumulate very good squads, stealing players from lesser teams (while the top4 steal the top quality off them). Will be a few exceptions where clubs implode - eg newcastle <3 but again, that was due to a terrible chairman and/or stupid fans. Sacking sam allardyce because they weren't playing pretty football... hope they go down.

And a few long term projects like QPR - not sure whats going on there but seems to be failure so far. But they're (or were) running the club like ****ing idiots.

Basically clubs with money are guaranteed long term safety (unless the owners up and run or so) - but not immediate success. Eg, if newcastle go down, you will be utterly amazed if they don't bounce straight back. If Blackburn Rovers go down.....
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Unread 15 May 2009, 12:17   #4
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

Test Cricket is a far superior sport to 20/20. The whole point of cricket is that it's not just about skill; it's about long term strategy and mental stamina. Very few games flow like a test apart from a very good football match.

As for football - if you aren't based in a major city, you're ****ed without a billionaire. And only slightly less ****ed if you're not in London or Liverpool or United.
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Unread 15 May 2009, 15:28   #5
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

20/20 won't take over from test cricket but it may overtake one-dayers.

There's no disputing that test cricket is the pinnacle of the game, but the authorities haven't moved with the times.

Test pitches are designed to ensure 5 days play rather than a decent game, test series are curtailed to fit in more ODI and 20/20 matches in, the first 3 days of the 1st test were midweek (hence less spectators) and why the hell is there a test match in the North-East at the beginning of May?

Allowing Sky to buy up all cricket rights killed the huge enthusiasm for the game generated by the Ashes success.

India won the 20/20 world cup and capitalised on it with the IPL but the money will run out eventually.

Also, if you look at the state of the Test teams:
Australia - In a transitional phase after the retirement of a lot of experienced/iconic cricketers.
South Africa - A relatively young team in the main, with some good players.
England - lots of potential, but inconsistent... This Ashes series will prove how good or bad we are.
India - The incredibly popular old guard are all on the verge of retiring. The country will probably go into mourning when Sachin hangs up his bat. Noone new is coming through who will ever be as popular as Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly and Tendulkar.
Pakistan - Not playing enough tests.
Sri Lanka - A few iconic batsmen going/gone. With Mendis they have a successor to Murali.
West Indies - Chanderpaul, Sarwan and Ramdin are obviously very good, but they're not in the same league as Lara. And dear god the bowling is terrible.
New Zealand - Maybe just finding their feet. But still not a top top side.
Zimbabwe/Bangladesh - Poor.


But look at the popularity of the Ashes, the Aus-SA test series etc.

Test Cricket isn't dead, it's just going through transition and certainly needs better management.
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Unread 15 May 2009, 17:24   #6
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste View Post
There's no disputing that test cricket is the pinnacle of the game
In England, test cricket is certainly still the pinnacle of the game - and that's shown by relative attendances at test/one-day/20-20 matches.

But else where in the world its different. In the 1980s in India (according to Ian Botham, my bible on all that is cricket!) grounds would be packed to the rafters for test cricket, with amazing atmospheres. Same, to a lesser extent, in the West Indies.

Now, test match grounds there are all but empty, with the barmy army forming most of the crowds in the Caribbean. For one-dayers and 20-20, the locals jampack themselves into the grounds. More so in India than elsewhere.

I'd say we're different because, fundamentally, we have the ashes series. Other countries don't have a test series that can compare to that (though aye, SA vs australia is an 'important' series).

So I'd say only England, Australia and South Africa (maybe new zealand, don't know much about that) still consider test cricket the pinnacle of the game for the past 5-10yrs. And sadly, its India with the population of ~1 billion, not England!

[also I don't buy the whole "indian people are poor, they can't afford to go to 5days of cricket" when they could so emphatically in years gone by. The increase in ticket prices don't account for it! They just plain and simply, prefer the short format of the game. Same for the windies.]

CRICKET IS DOOMED I TELL YOU!

edit:

Quote:
Noone new is coming through who will ever be as popular as Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly and Tendulkar.
woah! Virender Sehwag dude! He's easily more popular than those others except, obviously, Tendulkar. That said, just checked, sehwag is 30! so not exactly a young fledgling, but still lots of time left in him. Some of the records he has are awe-inspiring (eg, 300 off 278 balls against south africa). To be honest, India are looking pretty strong - although no one will replace tendulkar, and no doubt in india it will hinder most young batsmen just like the legacy of ian botham has hindered all-rounders in England.

Last edited by newt; 15 May 2009 at 17:51.
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Unread 15 May 2009, 23:22   #7
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

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(hence less spectators)
fewer

(your 'analysis' also sucked, but let's try to get the basics sorted out first)
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Unread 16 May 2009, 10:29   #8
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

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India - The incredibly popular old guard are all on the verge of retiring. The country will probably go into mourning when Sachin hangs up his bat. Noone new is coming through who will ever be as popular as Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly and Tendulkar.
this isn't true, the youth components of their team has generated far more excitement than any player since sehwag, and if the team continues delivering success i don't see why dhoni won't be as "popular" as all the names, if not more, bar tendulkar of course but tendulkar is an exception to everything in cricket.

oh, gambhir is also another young top quality (from what we've seen so far, at least) batsman to come out as well.

as far as the original debate goes, cricket's administrators (icc) are imbeciles and that's the main reason for everything going downhill. i'd agree that 20/20 isn't 'really cricket', but it soon will be (10 years tops).

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Unread 16 May 2009, 11:41   #9
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

20/20 is like 5 a side football...

If there was a summer tournament that paid all players involved 10 times there normal salary for a few weeks work then you'd probably see the same things happen in football...

It's been marketed well but people will get tired of it and come back to 5-day cricket if the ICC stop being so stubborn about change...


I'm trying to find a good article I read about 20/20, but I'm too hungover to search and reply properly... sorry!
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Unread 16 May 2009, 11:54   #10
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

the thing is though test cricket is just way too separate from 20/20 to retain more than a meagre percentage of new fans from 20/20. one day cricket at least involved several strategies and tactics that are slightly adapted from test cricket so it's easy to see the essence remain but 20/20 isn't anything like that. i'm very skeptical.
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Unread 16 May 2009, 12:32   #11
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

I'm tempted to just quote jer's last post

One indication that 20-20 leagues are a going to be a long term financial is this season's IPL. Some would say it was only a success because it was in india, with predominantly indian teams with a few superstars thrown in. This time round it got moved with 1month's notice, to south africa, and its still exceptionally popular (ok not all grounds are full, they tend to vary from what I've seen - but overall, decent attendances).

Also the EPL comes in in 2010? or thereabouts - would have been immediate except takes time to modify the english county setup! If I remember correctly (jsut tried googling for the info and failed?!?!?), to begin with it won't be like the IPL in terms of funding - but the 4-day form of the game (needed to produce quality test players) is going to be partly replaced with a 20-20 league, and there is something where counties can buy superstars like the IPL teams can. I wouldn't mind betting, if its a success (almost certainly), more money will be pumped in within a few years and it will be like the IPL, signing players for millions.

Its a bit like a runaway train. 20-20 leagues in england (properly advertised and promoted like the IPL) will be hugely popular. Christ, even I would probably go because it will be a fun day or night out. I've only been to a few county 4day matches (watched a fair few on sky sports though!) and they were horrifically boring. I suppose this is the major reason why 20-20 will gradually dominate world cricket - whilst test cricket will arguably dominate international 20-20s ... in the domestic forms of the game, 20-20 >>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. This in turn over generations will have a huge impact on the quality of test cricketers, and test cricket will simply become a two-innings-oneday match ;/

Also your 5-aside football comparison is a bad one, in my opinion. It would be a financial disaster (its going 'up against' the premiership, which is already a financial phenomena; 20-20 is going up against financial mediocrity in the other forms) that few people would actually watch (there are 5aside masters tournaments for old, but very popular players - few people watch it). Also, those players won't be allowed to play in it by their clubs who already pay them huge amounts... which brings in an option for test cricket to remain the dominant form of cricket - much larger central contracts, which would allow players to maybe attend just one IPL-like league per year. But the players would be answerable and in control of the ECB, like football players are to their clubs. If this doesn't happen, it seems likely that top players won't bother with central contracts and will insted become .. 'mercenaries'. They will choose when and where they play (if wanted), and they get paid per day for performances for England. If the latter happens, test cricket will be dead

Since I love my long posts, I'll write some more. You say the ICC are idiots in terms of finacning/promoting the long format of the game - what should they be doing? I heard Strauss suggest two stupid ideas - a). a test cricket world cup; b). having day-night test matches. I won't even bother pointing out the stupidity of these suggestions, interested to see what yours' are!

edit: I like this football comparison stuff! So I'll make another! in 10years, test matches will be like England friendlies - sure most of the top stars will play (unless they fake injuries and such for more important things). Effort in these games will be lack luster (especially in the field) - a bit like what we can see in the windies already. I guess I don't need to finish this analogy for 20-20 and competitive internationals?

edit #2: My mum's just informed me that the EPL will also have one foreign team in it too? so probably the winners of the IPL or something? don't know.

Last edited by newt; 16 May 2009 at 12:50.
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Unread 18 May 2009, 21:10   #12
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

just read cricinfo blogs
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Unread 19 May 2009, 19:47   #13
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

That would be boring!
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Unread 21 May 2009, 00:34   #14
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

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As for football - if you aren't based in a major city, you're ****ed without a billionaire. And only slightly less ****ed if you're not in London or Liverpool or United.
United isn't a city.
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Unread 21 May 2009, 10:22   #15
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

stop being a ****ing idiot.
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Unread 21 May 2009, 12:29   #16
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

Wow. Kenny's post has just made me appreciate "something new in my life" even more.

All I can say is thanks jer!
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Unread 21 May 2009, 14:12   #17
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

Oh dear, I upset some people I don't like over the internet. Whatever will I do?
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Unread 21 May 2009, 19:01   #18
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

Didn't upset us (well, I can't speak for jer...), you just made a categorically shit post, highlighting why these forums are quite inferior to others.

Also, grow up! You're not 12yrs old (apologies if you are).
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Unread 21 May 2009, 23:48   #19
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

I think another factor about the state of Test cricket in England is that Test matches should not be played early in the season, especially up north at Chester-le-street - A point made by J Agnew on his blog last week.
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Unread 22 May 2009, 02:20   #20
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Didn't upset us (well, I can't speak for jer...), you just made a categorically shit post, highlighting why these forums are quite inferior to others.

Also, grow up! You're not 12yrs old (apologies if you are).
No, I didn't. I made an ironically humorous post playing on the ignorance that you've just implied is the reason for these forums being dead.

I wont enter into a discussion about my age as I feel that even for you, implying somebody is considerably less old than they actually are was an incredibly poor insult and so choose not to dignify it with a response.

I genuinely don't care that the forums are dead. They've been dead for a long time, and while I have made a few attempts at bringing up topics or conversations, people here dont WANT to hear from 'outsiders'. They browse these forums looking for topics/comments made by people they like and criticise posts/threads of people they don't.

The PA forums are shit, and not because they're dead. They're shit because of the people that use them. Am I more to blame for this than others? No. Am I less to blame? Probably not.

My intentionally shit post was merely symbollic of this incredibly bad trend that has been sweeping over these boards for years. The reason we have a select few who continually troll dead forums (yawhe for example) is because they're completely incapable of contributing to a discussion board that isn't dead. They quite simply don't have the same 'community presence' elsewhere and so can't behave in the same ****ish ways they do here. So this, PA, is where they concentrate all their ineptitudes.

The Planetarion forums are basically the slums of the internet. There are a few who don't belong, but mostly - people just can't do better.

But hey, what do I care. You were the one who was making a big deal out of a glib off-the-cuff remark, so please - feel free to carry on talking about cricket.
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Unread 22 May 2009, 16:45   #21
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

Quote:
I made an ironically humorous post playing on the ignorance that you've just implied is the reason for these forums being dead.
Yeah, I'm a bit like you to be honest - in that I consider these forums shit so I'll make shit posts. But not in threads I make, on topics I care about!!!!!

Putting on my "how to be a good poster hat" though, your post correcting lokken would have been ironically humourous, and decent, if you'd put a winky face after the correction, and contributed something else to the topic of debate.

As it is you entered the thread, seemingly read it all (must have bored you to death if you don't actually like cricket), and found something to nitpick over (I'm pretty sure lokken knows that united isn't a city!!!). I feel my reaction is justified!

To be honest, even when the pa forums were very active and booming, the GD community was utter shit (no surprise it's gradually died). I think we're on the same page kenny, lets kiss and make up - and agree not to make our points in each others' threads

Quote:
I think another factor about the state of Test cricket in England is that Test matches should not be played early in the season, especially up north at Chester-le-street
I don't think that matters much - sure attendances would be low, but the mini test series was always going to be a nothing-series. You need a bare minimum of 3 tests (ideally 5) for a proper series, and also windies are shit. So in a way I'm happy they put a meaningless series like this outside of the main cricketing season.
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Unread 22 May 2009, 22:12   #22
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

I just think Edgbaston and the Oval would have been better choices, espcially if they were pushed back a month. And it wasn't that meaningless going in - afterall England managed to lose during the winter!
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Unread 22 May 2009, 23:02   #23
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

We lost, but we were the better team! I had absolutely no doubt we would thrash them over here, and we did.
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Unread 23 May 2009, 00:47   #24
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

I did indeed read it all - I was THAT bored. I can't say the thread helped much either because I have no invested interest in the subject at hand.

Strangely though, I actually won a runners-up medal in cricket once. Whilst playing for my school down in Portsmouth, we got to the final of the South-East Hampshire Cup! Then we lost.

But I was awesome.

Since then I went on to other schools, and other sports and over the last 10~ years or so haven't given cricket the time of day. I know enough to know and relate to everything you said in your OP, Newt, but I really harbour no feelings on the matter strong enough to make me want to contribute to the topic at hand.

I felt like posting though, and saw lokken's post as an opportunity to nitpick instead.

If I took your thread off-topic I apologise, and if you would like to kiss and make up then after your incredibly gracious reply I'd be more than happy to do so.

For you, Newt, I'll always have a wink* in my eye








*sp?
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Unread 23 May 2009, 01:01   #25
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

Quote:
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For you, Newt, I'll always have a wink* in my eye








*sp?
*repressed sexual desire
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Unread 23 May 2009, 01:45   #26
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

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Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
but I really harbour no feelings on the matter strong enough to make me want to contribute to the topic at hand.
Yeah, if I'd just spent ages reading lots of long boring posts I'd definitely want to have my say too.

Quote:
If I took your thread off-topic I apologise, and if you would like to kiss and make up then after your incredibly gracious reply I'd be more than happy to do so.
I kinda realised that while your post wasn't exactly awesome, my post really did epitomise what is/was wrong with GD. I was probably PMSing at the time or summat.

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*repressed sexual desire
don't worry man, if me and kenny do ever get it on, I'll amke sure you're invited too. Whether we do a threesome or take it in turns can be decided at a later date.
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Unread 26 May 2009, 17:46   #27
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

Deleted by the fascists.

It was a good post too.

Test cricket is like having sex with your grandma, its old, slow, and boring.

20/20 is like sleeping with a 12 year old. Alot of yelling, screaming and thrashing about.



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Unread 26 May 2009, 17:54   #28
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Test cricket is like having sex with your grandma, its old, slow, and boring.
Some people have grandma fetishes though! Its unfair that they should be forced to have sex with 12yr olds instead.
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Unread 26 May 2009, 19:45   #29
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

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don't worry man, if me and kenny do ever get it on, I'll amke sure you're invited too. Whether we do a threesome or take it in turns can be decided at a later date.
how tall are you?
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Unread 26 May 2009, 20:34   #30
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

5 foot 10.5 inches!

Does that turn you on baby?
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Unread 26 May 2009, 20:59   #31
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

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5 foot 10.5 inches!

Does that turn you on baby?
all i hear is "follow the yellow brick road"
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Unread 26 May 2009, 21:09   #32
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

I knew I should have let my dad teach me in the art of cryptic crosswords when I was younger

This wonderful conversation is hereby paused until I've worked out what you mean.
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Unread 26 May 2009, 21:25   #33
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchkins

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Unread 26 May 2009, 21:43   #34
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

WHAT THE ****?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

5'10'' is the perfect height
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Unread 26 May 2009, 21:44   #35
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

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WHAT THE ****?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

5'10'' is the perfect height
for a life in the circus?
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Unread 26 May 2009, 22:05   #36
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

I find circuses/circusii/whatever scary/creepy/whatever How tall are you?
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Unread 26 May 2009, 22:21   #37
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

6'1", just because I still feel somewhat involved in the implications the current climate of height inquisitions.
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Unread 26 May 2009, 22:25   #38
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

Quote:
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6'1".
you should come to london and call me
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Unread 26 May 2009, 22:35   #39
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

:win:
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Unread 26 May 2009, 22:40   #40
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

can I at least watch?

[I almost posted something relevant to the thread topic then, managed to restrain myself at the very last second *slaps himself*]
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Unread 26 May 2009, 22:42   #41
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

Close call, Newt!

Edit: RE: Your post -

Ofc, "it" wont work unless you're there!
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Unread 26 May 2009, 22:46   #42
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

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can I at least watch?
sure

we'll get you a couple of phone books to stand on.
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Unread 26 May 2009, 23:01   #43
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Re: The (sad) future of cricket

Thanks man, you're all heart.
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