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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 15:51   #1
Jonas
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Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

Hello everyone!

Every now and then, I get a great idea. Theese tend to come when I have little to do, in this case when the game was (once more ) being rollbacked.

I got back to PA this round, but I havent been out for too long. Some changes have been made since I was here, but I havent been out for that long really, or atleast it doesnt feel that way.

I started playing in round 2, and back then PA was a much bigger unorganized universe with alot of ideas put together. Some were better than others, some were thought through and some were just put in there without much testing (Thiefs round 2? PDS! Galaxy Fleet ) And yes, they did infact name the Thieves Thiefs back then!

Anyway, I'm gonna list some ideas here. Things I think might give the game more variety, more tactics and a bit more fun. Some are things I belive really needs to be done, others are things I want to atleast be looked at as a possebility!

Alliances:

Ingame alliances are great. Ever since they came, they have been making alliance play alot more fun. People like Alki were forced to join 1 alliance(hello loverboi with 5 alliances r9 :P) and being in an alliance gave you the ability to really work closer to your friends. HCs also got an easier time monitoring their alliances. Ingame tools are improving, but are yet far from out of game tech used by bigger alliances!

Anyway, my suggestions is to look at some sort of diplomacy system. Alliances declaring war on eachother ingame. When declaring war on an alliance, you get an avdantage in roidcap on that alliance. However when you do this, your roidcap on the rest of the universe decreases. I was thinking maybe 10%(On non war targets in times of war) 20%(Normal cap when not in war) and 30%(on target planets you are at war with)

Every alliance should be able to declare war on 2 other alliances. However theres no limit as to how many alliances can declare war on you. For a war to be ended, HCs of both alliances need to agree.

I think this would bring a strategic aspect to the ingame alliances. Look at the situation in the universe today. 80% of the alliances out there are just piggybacking the real wars. Would they dare do that if they knew they could get declared war on by the bigger alliances and suddenly loose alot more roids?

This is something that brighter heads than me should look at!

Galaxies:

With the introduction of ingame alliances, I feel galaxies have been more or less forgotten. Alliances rule the galaxies, and theres little keeping a gal together nowadays. In the early rounds, youre best friends and defence was your gal. The universe was enourmeous, but you always knew who you had close by. Although back then one could also attack ingal, which was sometimes a bad thing

I feel the galaxies needs to be resurrected! Many people like their gal better than their alliance, and I somewhat understand that!

Here are some suggestions for how we can make galaxies a tighter cooperating group.

First of all, ministers need work. Having a colour and minor tasks isnt enough!

I also think there should be implemented something called Galaxy Development. This would be run by the GC, and would be bonuses applying to the Galaxy and the planets in it. Theese would ofcourse not be cheap, and the costs would be taken from the galaxy fund.

For example:
ETA Research in gal. Lowering the etas from say 6-4 or something for ingal def.
Research galaxy defence fleet. A defensive fleet run by the MoW.
Research Worm Hole. Opens a wormhole to a destinated galaxy to lower eta b 1. This would take 8 hours to open/close. Maybe have a research lowering it to 4.
Reasearch Invesments: Galaxy fund increases by 0.5% 1& 1.5% 2% each tick.
Research Trading: Donations going to planets ingal reduced from 12 ticks to 8ticks to 4 ticks to instant. Could also have a research removing limitations.

Just some of many ideas to make ingal cooperation more vital, more fun and with alot more tactics!

As for the galaxy defence fleet. Its been tried before, but back then the ships you donated to it was evenly spread out among 25 plantes in a gal and was regularly killed without doing anything whenever there was incommings. The idea is good though!

The galaxy defence fleet would be run by the MoW. It would be 1 fleetspot(maybe allow researching more) which can only be used in defence. The way to get ships into this fleet would be either by donations from the planets in the galaxy, paid by the galfund or both. Also what ships should be allowed in there could be restrictd. Maybe every gal had to pick 2 ships from each race? It should be possible to scan this fleet ofcourse. Make something called a Galaxy Scan maybe to get info of the galaxy development. I also had an idea as to some of all salvage begin generated in a galaxy to go to the fund. Thise are things the MoD can setup. Salvage tax, normal tax or the like.

The MoW should also be able to mark incommings on galstatus(or a new galdefence page?) as covered and such. Maybe also write whats needed there and add bcalcs. Also he should be able to look at the ingal fleets.

I also think that the MoD and MoC needs more to do. The MoD, obviously running the Galfund. He would also have to agree on the spendings the GC and MoW decide to do with gal development and galfleet. Also, it would be fun if every gal had 3-5 bonuses(things they could research perhaps). This would be bonuses like: X% faster reasearch, construction, production, mining and stealth. The MoD would be the one to decide who has which bonus at any time, and a planet wouldnt be able to have more than 1 bonus at any time.

And lastly, the MoC. Apart from being able to mail the entire gal, and keep gal forums tidy, I think he should be able to run a Gal information page. Some sort of jorunal in which he can control the access of the different planets. here he would hold information like SMS numbers, fleets, and other sensetive information that bad seeds in the galaxy shouldnt be allowed to see.

Also, changing a minister should have 4 ticks or so delay, so that the GC cant run the gal by changing ministers whenever he see fit.

Planetary Defence System:

Lastly, not because I dont have more ideas, but because im tired of writing, I want to point out the PDS! I shall expect alot of flame for even trying to defend the PDS I suspect! It has been a vary very bad thing. Never worked very well. Either too overpowered or too useless. We all remember round 3( I think) when roman fortress had hundres ouf thousand of PDS defending his #1

Anyway, I do think PDS has a variety twist over it. Make it useful statswise(again brighter heads need to do this) and give it an ability to disengage/camouflage(meaning you can save it if you get incs) and it might just become decent. Give it a salvage boost maybe aswell, to make it a useful defensive tactic. Wether it would be the same turrets for all races or not, I dont know. Either way is fine. Its a perfectly logical thing to build on your planet.

Also, bring back cargo ships. They were fun For thoose that doesnt know, they stole some of the resource flow of the target planet raiding the ships bringing stuff from asteroids to the planet

Anyway, sorry for blabbering on. I just thought id write it down before the alcohol gods make me forget!

-Jonas-
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 15:53   #2
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

Forgot to add:

Make gals smaller. 8-12 planets max! Keep latesignups, great idea and good for the game!

And the galfleet score should be added to the galaxy score!

-Jonas-
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 15:54   #3
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

PDS is always bad for the game and often badly balanced.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 15:58   #4
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
PDS is always bad for the game and often badly balanced.
Which is why it needs to be balanced. The people making the stats should have no problem making a working PDS.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 16:00   #5
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

in the same way there is a Structure Killing class of ship, there should also be a class of ship that can specifically target PDS. have it out of the same class as the roiding fleet in the way SK's are. would this not make PDS viable to counter?
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 16:02   #6
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

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Originally Posted by Mek View Post
in the same way there is a Structure Killing class of ship, there should also be a class of ship that can specifically target PDS. have it out of the same class as the roiding fleet in the way SK's are. would this not make PDS viable to counter?
Imo the PDS should be treated as a class of its own. Hence you'd need ships that target PDS.

Or each PDS would be each own class. You'd have 1 FI class PDS 1 CO class PDS and so on. That could work aswell.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 16:07   #7
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

commenting on the other parts of your post, i really do like the idea of giving the ministers more roles within the galaxy. Especially the MoW which seems a massively redundant role. Even the GC has limited job role apart from election of ministers and changing the galaxy name.

The MoW getting a galaxy defence fleet is very good. perhaps however, instead of it being able to be used on everybody, it should be used on the lower scoring 40% of the galaxy members, pretty much in the same way as the fund has limitations on who can be in receipt of it...
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 16:23   #8
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

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Originally Posted by Mek View Post
commenting on the other parts of your post, i really do like the idea of giving the ministers more roles within the galaxy. Especially the MoW which seems a massively redundant role. Even the GC has limited job role apart from election of ministers and changing the galaxy name.

The MoW getting a galaxy defence fleet is very good. perhaps however, instead of it being able to be used on everybody, it should be used on the lower scoring 40% of the galaxy members, pretty much in the same way as the fund has limitations on who can be in receipt of it...
Hmm maybe, I dont think 1 fleetspot will be too overpowered tho. And also, considering the way gals are being bashed when they get incs nowadays, haviong the galfleet cover bigger planets might be useful for gals struggling.
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 19:20   #9
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

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Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
Anyway, my suggestions is to look at some sort of diplomacy system. Alliances declaring war on eachother ingame. When declaring war on an alliance, you get an avdantage in roidcap on that alliance. However when you do this, your roidcap on the rest of the universe decreases. I was thinking maybe 10%(On non war targets in times of war) 20%(Normal cap when not in war) and 30%(on target planets you are at war with)
very nice idea, i like it, not only cause alliances would be forced to declare war on someone else to get max cap, but also cause a lot of players hide in a tag, but actually dont participate in wars, usually those who finish up high in ranks
this solution would solve that

i more then like it i love it

however i think, seeing that in times of war its very hard to destroy value of your opponent, and it often (if not several alliances turn on one) turns out to be just a roidswap contest, i think salvage should be dramatically reduced for war targets, like at least halfed
maybe we would see a fleetcatch landing for once
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 21:15   #10
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

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very nice idea, i like it, not only cause alliances would be forced to declare war on someone else to get max cap, but also cause a lot of players hide in a tag, but actually dont participate in wars, usually those who finish up high in ranks
this solution would solve that

i more then like it i love it

however i think, seeing that in times of war its very hard to destroy value of your opponent, and it often (if not several alliances turn on one) turns out to be just a roidswap contest, i think salvage should be dramatically reduced for war targets, like at least halfed
maybe we would see a fleetcatch landing for once

excellent addition to the idea...i like it
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Unread 7 Mar 2009, 21:37   #11
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

maybe for the galaxy defense fleet give the MoW control over 3(?) fleets that can be sent to the lower 40% in galaxy. the ships would be built, with permission from the MoD, using the galaxy fund. def eta could be 4-6 (you would want it not easily exploitable), and unless it is sent somewhere it does not participate in combat. ships in it would show in a separate part of an au/unit on the MoW.
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 01:15   #12
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

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Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
maybe for the galaxy defense fleet give the MoW control over 3(?) fleets that can be sent to the lower 40% in galaxy. the ships would be built, with permission from the MoD, using the galaxy fund. def eta could be 4-6 (you would want it not easily exploitable), and unless it is sent somewhere it does not participate in combat. ships in it would show in a separate part of an au/unit on the MoW.
Almost like an additional planet built out of gal funds? Sounds like a good idea essentially, but it has a few issues like would it be limited to one race? How how would it be built? (maybe other planets in gal can donate factories, if possible). And also seems no different to simply donating the resources to that planet, although if it was allowed to use other planets factories would be completley diff.

I def agree with the need for gal positions to have more of a job to do, ive read this and not sure if its been mentioned. But can the gal status page be changed to something similar to the alliance def page; ie drop downs, notes, add bcalcs.

Nice to see some good ideas flying about, hope some are implemented.
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 01:32   #13
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

Some good ideas milling in here, take note PAT please!
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 03:45   #14
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

Yeah some good additions to my suggestions here

Im glad people think there are some good ideas Hopefully someone who can make decisions will see through ti and get some inspiration
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 03:57   #15
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

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Yeah some good additions to my suggestions here

Im glad people think there are some good ideas
Really like alot of your ideas + the additions made to it by other people too m8

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Hopefully someone who can make decisions will see through ti and get some inspiration
I fear the worst for that however
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 12:34   #16
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

PDS have always been like immobile ships. You're idea of allowing them to camouflage give them some mobility, but it's not enough to make them better than a ship to defend your planet.
Now if you give PDS the unique ability to subvert ships it could be a lot of fun and would make massive team up attacks think twice about their fleet composition.
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 13:00   #17
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

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PDS have always been like immobile ships. You're idea of allowing them to camouflage give them some mobility, but it's not enough to make them better than a ship to defend your planet.
Now if you give PDS the unique ability to subvert ships it could be a lot of fun and would make massive team up attacks think twice about their fleet composition.

Subvert? Ive heard this used before but never understood what it is, anyone want to explain?
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 13:27   #18
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

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Subvert? Ive heard this used before but never understood what it is, anyone want to explain?
It was tried one round (think 13?) Zik didn't steal anymore instead they subverted ships.
Ziks fired at other ships, subverted those ships so they would fire on their own ships.
It was a good idea in concept but was horribly exploited. People sending defence to escort an attack, their defence would get subverted and fire on real defenders.
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 14:34   #19
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
PDS have always been like immobile ships. You're idea of allowing them to camouflage give them some mobility, but it's not enough to make them better than a ship to defend your planet.
Now if you give PDS the unique ability to subvert ships it could be a lot of fun and would make massive team up attacks think twice about their fleet composition.
Yeah these days PDS is redundant, you would have to do something special.

In reality PDS is a last line of defence. So removing them from main combat, and having a second combat tick, you include only PDS into that calc.

Or perhaps the fleet combat is at eta 1 to a planet, and PDS is calced at eta 0 (with no defender fleets added)

I have said before you could give the PDS ST class, but then that means more ST killers in the uni.
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Unread 8 Mar 2009, 16:43   #20
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

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The MoW should also be able to mark incommings on galstatus(or a new galdefence page?) as covered and such. Maybe also write whats needed there and add bcalcs. Also he should be able to look at the ingal fleets.
yes, but if u do, add some access levels to it, like on ingame alliances, which u can change

like if alliance x is attacking my gal, i maybe dont wanna have the alliance x members in gal see the calcs and stuff

just diffrent levels of what u can see would solve it


some idea about pds

1) make it possible to not take part in battle

2) init 0, let it fire first, but not much firepower and no armour!!!

3) more salvage for killed pds then killed ships (nothing gets lost in space)

4) be really careful about the stats, if u make em too strong we will see a lot of pds whores and nothing to stop em, but if the attacker has to decide if he wants to do some extra damage to you and use it, it should be better then ships (why would u build it otherwise) - thats why the init0 but on the other hand let it die easy if used (it cant move, so easy to hit)

5) have a new class: pds, dont make it fi/co/fr or something, just pds

like hyperton turret class: pds targets fi / co
messon cannon: class pds targets fr / de

and the ship for exampel
thunderstrike class: fr targets pds

like suggested every race has a pds killer (just like sk´s are atm, not part of the roiding fleet) or maybe 3 pds killers, one for every eta (else only one class of attackers can kill pds, which would be a dramatically thing to be imo)


this at least at my first thought now, would

a) make it still possible for pod only fakes to land on planets (they run their pds if no defence)

b) give u a reason to build it instead of ships (fires first)

c) add another dimension to combats and other strategies to gameplay and thus make it more interesting

probs not thought to the end, just some ideas
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Last edited by M0RPH3US; 8 Mar 2009 at 16:48.
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Unread 9 Mar 2009, 13:14   #21
Jonas
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Re: Alliances, galaxies and PDS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
however i think, seeing that in times of war its very hard to destroy value of your opponent, and it often (if not several alliances turn on one) turns out to be just a roidswap contest, i think salvage should be dramatically reduced for war targets, like at least halfed
maybe we would see a fleetcatch landing for once
That or maybe make a ship called "Salvager" that would let the attackers steal part of the salvage Would ofc be the last thing that was done in a fight.

During wars in PA now everyone grows, thats the problem
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