Planetarion Forums

roadrunner_0 · 17 Jan 2005, 14:11

is it worth a tenner of my hard earned? or as its not black isle is it a pile of crap?

SilverSmoke · 17 Jan 2005, 14:15

A tenner?

I think the game is awesome despite being full of bugs. Be sure to patch it up and overpatch the latest official patch with the fan made patch. Also, make sure you've got a rather powerful pc as the pre-battle calculations takes ages on my p3 800 with geforce4.

Story of the game isn't much special but the athmosphere, and especially the battles are great, beautiful animated translations of Dungeon and Dragons style battles.

If you want a RPG based on battle tactics go for it. It's lovely. Keep in mind though, it's basicly just a huge dungeon crawl, but doesn't feel like diablo. I hate Diablo.

roadrunner_0 · 17 Jan 2005, 14:17

so is it anything like the BG series or the icewind dale games? im assuming not really from what you have said?

EDIT: sorry, a tenner = £10 for the foreigners amongst us

Yahwe · 17 Jan 2005, 14:32

the story's disapointingly short.

roadrunner_0 · 17 Jan 2005, 14:37

really? how many hours gameplay (roughly) would you say?

SilverSmoke · 17 Jan 2005, 14:37

It's more like a tactical version of diablo. With dungeon and dragons rules.

I don't like Diablo, I love BG. And I really liked ToEE.

Yes, maybe Icewind Dale gets most close as a comparison. I think there's a playable demo somewhere to be found, why don't you try that first? First part of the game is pretty boring though, things start to get interesting when you level up your group a bit.

SilverSmoke · 17 Jan 2005, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

the story's disapointingly short.

It is, and really boring as well, but what this game really have is a fantastic battle system.

Yahwe · 17 Jan 2005, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

really? how many hours gameplay (roughly) would you say?

probably about 30 hours, but the plot is so linear you'll get bored before that.

2 villages to go to, one quest 'to go to the temple and kill everything'.
none of the joy of exploration found in the bg series.

its basically a one dungeon romp.

SilverSmoke · 17 Jan 2005, 14:48

For me, the battle engine and it's animations where all worth it.

roadrunner_0 · 17 Jan 2005, 14:52

might get it then, thanks both of you

skiddy · 17 Jan 2005, 18:21

We once played a D20 Forgotten Realms campaign based around the Temple of Elemental Evil.

The nice friendly Sun Elf who went in (me) wasn't a guy you wanted around when he came out.

Kurashima · 17 Jan 2005, 19:39

Its poor and bug ridden , and i desperately regretted spending my cash on it when it came out.

Go to Virgin and get the Gold Edition of Neverwinter Nights instead. Itll cost you £14 , youll get NWN and Shadows of Unrentide, and its massive and very well supported online.

A far better RPG purchase.

SilverSmoke · 17 Jan 2005, 19:44

Actually NWN bored the living daylights out of me, but hey, flavour is subjective.

Kurashima · 17 Jan 2005, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSmoke

Actually NWN bored the living daylights out of me, but hey, flavour is subjective.

Ive found the side quests entertaining , the sheer range of monsters brilliant, and the expansion packs add more than just a few levels (Shadows of Unrentide adds new specialised character classes, and a whole new flavour which is very Icewind Dale). Its also graphically excellent, but i took some persuading over it, which isnt normally the case with a D&D game. It won me over. Somethine that TOEE never did.

Phang · 17 Jan 2005, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

Ive found the side quests entertaining , the sheer range of monsters brilliant, and the expansion packs add more than just a few levels (Shadows of Unrentide adds new specialised character classes, and a whole new flavour which is very Icewind Dale). Its also graphically excellent, but i took some persuading over it, which isnt normally the case with a D&D game. It won me over. Somethine that TOEE never did.

SoU isn't nearly as good once you leave the Hilltop area, but i found NWN and the first bit of SoU to be very good indeed, and the mod community substantially better than most.

what's a nice cheap way to get HotU, do you know?

SilverSmoke · 17 Jan 2005, 20:12

I see, point taken.

What I just really bloody love in ToEE, and yes I repeat myself, the battle system. I think this RPG has the best battles in any RPG I've ever played. All the third generation D&D stuff is in there. The animation is lovely, there is so many possible things to choose from to influence the outcome of a huge battle. When you hit someone you really feel like hurting someone with a massive two-handed sword. When a big huge spider crawls out of the dirt and shadows you really feel like getting attacking by something that has been waiting for you for years down there in the dark. The badguys do really feel like evil creatures and although the story is short and simple, you really start to fear that evil temple that needs to get cleaned out from entrance to end.

I am the last one to judge a game by it's presentation, but in this case, the animations, the sound-effects, the atmospheric music and ofcourse the battlesystem itself made it one of the more enjoyable pc games I've played since civ3.

NEWSBOT3 · 17 Jan 2005, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

Ive found the side quests entertaining , the sheer range of monsters brilliant, and the expansion packs add more than just a few levels (Shadows of Unrentide adds new specialised character classes, and a whole new flavour which is very Icewind Dale). Its also graphically excellent, but i took some persuading over it, which isnt normally the case with a D&D game. It won me over. Somethine that TOEE never did.

damn you kura, i want to play it now but my housemate wont lend me it

Kurashima · 17 Jan 2005, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

damn you kura, i want to play it now but my housemate wont lend me it

NWN & SoU are available in the NWN Gold Edition in Virgin for £12.99

Break out the pennies!

Yahwe · 17 Jan 2005, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

NWN & SoU are available in the NWN Gold Edition in Virgin for £12.99

Break out the pennies!

nwn is an awful. awful game.
i can not fathom your love for it

perhaps you own shares?

Kurashima · 17 Jan 2005, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

nwn is an awful. awful game.
i can not fathom your love for it

perhaps you own shares?

As do I fail to understand your love for ToEE.

If you also own "Lionheart" , i swear you need therapy. Never have I been so disappointed in an RPG , and the fact it was a Black Isle title made it so much worse

NEWSBOT3 · 17 Jan 2005, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

nwn is an awful. awful game.
i can not fathom your love for it

perhaps you own shares?

it's not awful, it's just far too focused on being a computer version of D&D instead of being a game.

Yahwe · 17 Jan 2005, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

As do I fail to understand your love for ToEE.

If you also own "Lionheart" , i swear you need therapy. Never have I been so disappointed in an RPG , and the fact it was a Black Isle title made it so much worse

read the thread old man.

i advise against toee. its just as shit as nwn

Yahwe · 17 Jan 2005, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

it's not awful, it's just far too focused on being a computer version of D&D instead of being a game.

which makes it an awful game

Kurashima · 17 Jan 2005, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

it's not awful, it's just far too focused on being a computer version of D&D instead of being a game.

Welcome to the whole point of a WOTC Game.

If you want a Game , you buy Diablo , its sequels and expansions.
If you want an RPG thats basically a computer version of D&D , you buy NWN, same as you bought Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 , and Icewind Dale 1 & 2.

Yahwe · 17 Jan 2005, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

Welcome to the whole point of a WOTC Game.

If you want a Game , you buy Diablo , its sequels and expansions.
If you want an RPG thats basically a computer version of D&D , you buy NWN, same as you bought Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 , and Icewind Dale 1 & 2.

nwn is exactly like diablo.

nwn nights is not a good game because it has a sophisticated dice rolling system. well it is a game, its a game of dice with no players.

now bg was phenominal.
let's just take a moment if we can to contrast nwn and bg and thereby realise WHY nwn is shit.

NEWSBOT3 · 17 Jan 2005, 23:44

BG and BGII bore the hell out of me.

I can't find the game in them.

Kurashima · 17 Jan 2005, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

nwn is exactly like diablo.

nwn nights is not a good game because it has a sophisticated dice rolling system. well it is a game, its a game of dice with no players.

now bg was phenominal.
let's just take a moment if we can to contrast nwn and bg and thereby realise WHY nwn is shit.

No , NWN and Diablo are completely different. The concept of a Storyline is completely devoid in Diablo or D2 , the concept of playing using any RPG system in Diablo simply doesnt exist. Its a run around fast and hack and slash. Puzzles? Why bother, just kill the biggest thing you can find , and take the biggest item. Dont bother developing a character , dont look for alignments , deitys, NPC's that have a personality beyond 1 dimension, story within a story, etc etc.

The difference between NWN & Baldurs Gate? NWN went all 3D and the purists hated it. I felt the same for ages, didnt buy NWN till last week, and quickly realised I was being *shudder* an RPG Elitist.

SilverSmoke · 18 Jan 2005, 00:14

I agree with yahwe here. I don't care how hard they try in NWN, in the end it just felt like a sophisticated version of diablo. The 'revolutionary' 3D graphics where pretty shit and lacking atmosphere, the characters never gave the feeling of being some kind of brave hero or any other entity and the quests and conversations where dull as ****.

Kurashima · 18 Jan 2005, 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSmoke

I agree with yahwe here. I don't care how hard they try in NWN, in the end it just felt like a sophisticated version of diablo. The 'revolutionary' 3D graphics where pretty shit and lacking atmosphere, the characters never gave the feeling of being some kind of brave hero or any other entity and the quests and conversations where dull as ****.

Ok , so we have some in favour , and some against. TBH , aside from the original Baldurs Gate (which broke most RPG frontiers) , everything thats come since has split the communities its been discussed in.

Opinions are unique to an individual. I like it, you dont, others do, at the end of the day, thats life.

Kurashima · 18 Jan 2005, 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

nwn is exactly like diablo.

nwn nights is not a good game because it has a sophisticated dice rolling system. well it is a game, its a game of dice with no players.

now bg was phenominal.
let's just take a moment if we can to contrast nwn and bg and thereby realise WHY nwn is shit.

PS : To seriously appreciate NWN , you need a LAN.

Yahwe · 18 Jan 2005, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

No , NWN and Diablo are completely different. The concept of a Storyline is completely devoid in Diablo or D2 , the concept of playing using any RPG system in Diablo simply doesnt exist. Its a run around fast and hack and slash. Puzzles? Why bother, just kill the biggest thing you can find , and take the biggest item. Dont bother developing a character , dont look for alignments , deitys, NPC's that have a personality beyond 1 dimension, story within a story, etc etc.

The difference between NWN & Baldurs Gate? NWN went all 3D and the purists hated it. I felt the same for ages, didnt buy NWN till last week, and quickly realised I was being *shudder* an RPG Elitist.

nwn is a hack n'slash

Kurashima · 18 Jan 2005, 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

nwn is a hack n'slash

I spend the majority of my time solving puzzles and sneaking around as a thief. I dont hack or slash anything, and when i have to , i tend to sneak in , sneak attack, get out.

If i use a ranger , i just let the animals handle the problem. Much simpler.
If i use a Sorcerer, i let the familiar and the summoned creatures handle it.
If i use a Paladin/Fighter, yeh, fair enough i hack n slash, but thats how the character works.

Its not a hack and slash. Theres far more to it.

Kurashima · 18 Jan 2005, 00:35

The best way to describe it

Diablo is Super Mario Bros
NWN is Legend of Zelda

Nuff Said.

Yahwe · 18 Jan 2005, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

I spend the majority of my time solving puzzles and sneaking around as a thief. I dont hack or slash anything, and when i have to , i tend to sneak in , sneak attack, get out.

If i use a ranger , i just let the animals handle the problem. Much simpler.
If i use a Sorcerer, i let the familiar and the summoned creatures handle it.
If i use a Paladin/Fighter, yeh, fair enough i hack n slash, but thats how the character works.

Its not a hack and slash. Theres far more to it.

see that's dull.
when every combat means the same moves/tactics you've not made a game you've made a hack fest.

p.s. gauntlet at least tried to have depth. mario... oh dear god. how can you even like bg if you prefer that???

EDIT stop changing your posts.

SilverSmoke · 18 Jan 2005, 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

Diablo is Super Mario Bros
NWN is Legend of Zelda

what

Kurashima · 18 Jan 2005, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

gauntlet at least tried to have depth..

Oh no , im not letting you off with a comment like that. It was an arcade game, you ran around in the party, tried to find the transport pads , avoid the deaths, and pay more 10p's to get your extra 200 health. It simply had absoloutely no depth whatsoever except to have hidden rooms and a big monster once in a while.

Thats like saying "Space Harrier had Depth" or "Asteroids had depth, it challenged me on an intellectual level".

*rolleyes*

Yahwe · 18 Jan 2005, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSmoke

what

he's trying to run an argument that nwn isn't diablo by making a fine distinction between two shit arcade games.

you'd be right to say that he was clutching at straws

Yahwe · 18 Jan 2005, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

Oh no , im not letting you off with a comment like that. It was an arcade game, you ran around in the party, tried to find the transport pads , avoid the deaths, and pay more 10p's to get your extra 200 health. It simply had absoloutely no depth whatsoever except to have hidden rooms and a big monster once in a while.

Thats like saying "Space Harrier had Depth" or "Asteroids had depth, it challenged me on an intellectual level".

*rolleyes*

the only gauntlet i ever played was one where you had to work through 20 levels of each castle before finding the respective dragon. four dragons, wind, fire, earth, water. different tiles and effects in each castle. then there was a big boss.

it was deep and indeed revolutionary in multiplayer gaming.

we leveled up and bought stuff as well.

Stew · 18 Jan 2005, 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

Diablo is Super Mario Bros
NWN is Legend of Zelda

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

two shit arcade games.

**** off.
These are decent proper games, not like any other game described in this thread.
Ok so I've not played most but they sure sound shit.

Kurashima · 18 Jan 2005, 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

he's trying to run an argument that nwn isn't diablo by making a fine distinction between two shit arcade games.

you'd be right to say that he was clutching at straws

Im not hearing anything to disprove my argument, simply denigration of my character for using such examples.

A classic example of "Victory by Ignorance"

Yahwe · 18 Jan 2005, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

Im not hearing anything to disprove my argument, simply denigration of my character for using such examples.

A classic example of "Victory by Ignorance"

usually when people post what voices do you hear?

SilverSmoke · 18 Jan 2005, 00:51

I am trying hard here to compare diablo with SMB, I think I am going to take a nap.

MrL_JaKiri · 18 Jan 2005, 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurashima

If you also own "Lionheart" , i swear you need therapy. Never have I been so disappointed in an RPG , and the fact it was a Black Isle title made it so much worse

Lionheart wasn't a Black Isle title. Interplay just slapped the Black Isle name on because they could for some name recognition.

And Lionheart is actually very good, until an extremely noticable point in the middle of the game which marks the exact moment they run out of money, and the game turns to shit thereafter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

he's trying to run an argument that nwn isn't diablo by making a fine distinction between two shit arcade games.

Niether Mario nor the Legend of Zelda are arcade games; nor are they shit. Remember that they're 20 years old at this point. Of course, if you're comparing more recent ones (Ocarina of Time, say), then you're doubly wrong. Whilst they may not have the depth of something like Baldurs Gate or Fallout, they utilise the technology available to them extremely well, and create things that are almost universally regarded as fun to play.

SilverSmoke · 18 Jan 2005, 01:19

I am gaming since bloody space invaders, I've had or at least played on every single 8 and 16 bit system. Still I never liked SMB or Zelda a lot.

Yahwe · 18 Jan 2005, 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Lionheart wasn't a Black Isle title. Interplay just slapped the Black Isle name on because they could for some name recognition.

And Lionheart is actually very good, until an extremely noticable point in the middle of the game which marks the exact moment they run out of money, and the game turns to shit thereafter.

Niether Mario nor the Legend of Zelda are arcade games; nor are they shit. Remember that they're 20 years old at this point. Of course, if you're comparing more recent ones (Ocarina of Time, say), then you're doubly wrong. Whilst they may not have the depth of something like Baldurs Gate or Fallout, they utilise the technology available to them extremely well, and create things that are almost universally regarded as fun to play.

mario and zelda are not 20 years old.

tread softly for you tread on my vanity.

MrL_JaKiri · 18 Jan 2005, 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

mario and zelda are not 20 years old.

tread softly for you tread on my vanity.

Super Mario Brothers was released in 1985.

The Legend of Zelda was released in 1986.

Close enough to make little difference.

Stew · 18 Jan 2005, 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

mario and zelda are not 20 years old.

tread softly for you tread on my vanity.

Here disagrees - says 1985 for Super Mario Bros. Technically it says October, so it's a few months shy of 20 years, but still I think this makes you wrong.

EFB - ffs MrL, I was sure I wouldn't be beaten on that!