User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Strategic Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 18 May 2008, 12:49   #51
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritfire
Yes I'm a cath "fanboy". Just to start with that.

Cath , have the highest average score. 3rd average value , 3rd average on roids.

The reason Cath's have so much xp, is that if you dosn't get enough def, you need to get score without keeping roids.

There is only one way to become a huge cath, get def and keep your roids.

Wich basically aint going to happend if your not a defleech !

I have said it before and can say it again..

Cath's can almost not be to powerfull, they get roided anyways.

So basically, cath on their own is way underpowered.

You my sir are a knight of the bullshit order.

I played cath this round, and had it not been for me having far to much to do at work I would have been top 50 easily. Cath was extremly good this round.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 May 2008, 12:50   #52
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

But just a few changes to the current stats can dramatically alter the dynamics of the game. More bs\cr fleet for example or more Etd\Ter in general(and less caths) can make huge difference in what fleets to use.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 May 2008, 15:57   #53
Monroe
Planetarion Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
Monroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud of
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
The reason that were given last round for changing stats, mainly "it's fun to change" should still be valid for next round. Stats are changed for the sake of it. I understand that if it's not done this time it's only because nobody wants to spend the time.
This is the case, no one has stepped forward to do stats, therefor as of right now they will not change.
__________________
Romans 10:9-10

#strategy
Monroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 May 2008, 16:11   #54
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Dude Ive just made some suggestions which I feel will help etd and ter to become more popular and balanced.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 May 2008, 16:55   #55
Gerbie2
Alive and kicking
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Kingdom of the Netherlands
Posts: 220
Gerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to all
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
Let me propose a few changes then to spark som discussion:

Lancer changed from FR class to DE class and now targetting BS\CR.
To 'counteract' this change Wyvern targetting to FR\DE
Change the Centaur to targetting FR\Co
Drake targetting FI\CO
Phoenix targetting CO\FI

Ideally what Id like some of this to do is for Terrans to build less Harpies and more phoenixes as the universe needs more anti co(IMO).
Im not sure on the whole dmg\armour aspect after the new targetting changes but Im sure someone smart(HI JBG\SUN) can do something with that.
As a Destroyer, the Lancer should cost more and could be something like this:
Armor 18 -> 20
Damage 15 -> 16
EmpRess 76 -> 77
M/E 120 -> 130

If you want more Co defence in the game you should also improve the armor and emp resistance of the Phoenix, because it’s not effective as it is now:
EmpR: 77 -> 78
Arm: 21 -> 23

The Culdassa Arrowhead would also require an upgrade:
Init 6 -> 5
Dam 8 -> 9
EmpR 58 -> 63

Finally Etd Cr would be absolete with all these changes, so they would also require an upgrade to make them a viable alternative. I’d make the Guardian more Cathaar-like:

Guardian
Emp 12 -> 13
Arm 40 -> 38

Predator
EmpR 90 -> 91
Gerbie2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 May 2008, 17:12   #56
Zaejii
This Space for Rent
Speedy Thief Champion, Turbo Turtle Champion, Cop-For-This Champion
 
Zaejii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
Zaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud of
Re: Stats Round 27

for cathaar, the black widow as it is now if fairly useless and the mantis is not a viable anti-cr ship (firing at init 3 whilst guardian and tara emp at init 2). not sure what you'd do to change them, just pointing it out. i'm not aware of anyone that built either ship during the round :-/
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
Zaejii is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 May 2008, 17:19   #57
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

I dont know if it occured or not however it seems likely that the cathaar players in NoX and Denial were forced to build mantis in order to fight the STOOMTHEREVIVAL ziks, which is otherwise rather difficult with cathaar. Did this occur? if so you have your answer, the mantis is needed to getting past Buccs. (mantis/scorps were potentially a very good ingal defense option against xan de too as the xan de does not fire on them, and if they sent bombers too - which did not happen often - then any roaches you can send freeze alot of bombers )

Also against an etd cr/bs fleet the guardians will most likely not get past freezing the cathaar's cr, therefor leaving the mantis free to fire in an anti cr role.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 May 2008, 18:14   #58
Zaejii
This Space for Rent
Speedy Thief Champion, Turbo Turtle Champion, Cop-For-This Champion
 
Zaejii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
Zaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud of
Re: Stats Round 27

mantis only being viable in galaxy, i see no reason why someone would build them for ally defense. besides, most of the waves were so large that they didn't bother defending them. afaik (as it was how i ran my planet and how others did theirs that i know) viper was the ship to build vs de as cathaar. if you can't get defense anyway, remember we're talking about emp here, you have to run your fleet or go attacking unless you emp 100% - so the more cost efficient ships with the most uses are better to build.
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
Zaejii is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 May 2008, 18:38   #59
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

I did not mention alliance def, and I know I only built them to fend off zik incs. talking in terms of ingal defence the mantis is considerably more cost effective than the viper as the viper only has de as T2. However I was thinking in terms of attacking, if a cat cr player has to attack a zik then you want something that targets buccs as its primary target, the only option is the mantis. It is hardly the most useful ship cathaar has, but it does have enough use to be worth leaving as an option.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2008, 09:43   #60
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Noone else has anything to add?

Noone disagree\agree ?
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2008, 10:27   #61
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
How about something like this then:

Lancer as DE targetting BS\CR
Phoenix now a FI targetting FI\CO(or co\fi?)
Drakes moved to CR targetting DE\CR and renamed Syrens\Hydras.
is this a better solution?
as much as I like the lancer and the Phoenix I suspect drakes as cr would make them almost impregnable. atm ter's tend to get incs from fi/co and from xan de. A drake would mean that de in effect could not attack terran as they would be targeted by the drake without firing back, they could team up with buccs however with the buccs firing last this would still not be very effective. They could still be attacked in teams (particularly fr/de) but everyone can so this would not really be a weakness.

This would leave the only option open being fi/co which will also become more difficult to use against terrans with that change to the phoenix.

yes terran is supposed to be difficult to attack, but perhaps not that difficult

one option would be to change the shadow to targeting de/cr to counter this but this would be moving towards totally rebalancing things as this would have numerous knock on effects of its own, unless people think that the bomber firing at the same time as the wyv but before the 'drake' would be enough? it would certainly make for risky attacks. Perhaps more xans would go for fi/co!
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.

Last edited by booji; 19 May 2008 at 10:33.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2008, 10:30   #62
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

I agree on that in principle.
Lets atleast agree on Phoenix and Lancer changes perhaps being sensible. A problem with the Lancer then would be that its a 0 loss anti BS unless the BS teams with Cath CR\BS. Im not quite sure if there is an easy way to solve that without making Terrand or Zik 'too good'.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2008, 10:44   #63
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

I tend to agree but as most races tend to have some classes of ships that find it difficult to attack them that for etd this is bs is not necessarily a problem. It seemed to me this round that the etd's in jenova got wave upon wave of co so it would not make too much difference.

yes I like the changes to the pheonix and the lancer and I dont think they necessarily have any knock on effects, which if we are looking for minor changes is what we want.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2008, 10:48   #64
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: Stats Round 27

There must be changes because if things remain the same it is likely that people will draw on what are perceived to be the lessons of the last round and so there will be more cats and ziks and fewer terr and etd, this has nothing to do with the realities simply that ppl have seen cats and ziks do well on the current stats
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2008, 10:58   #65
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Yeah thats true, and thats also part of the reson Id like to make the Terran BS fleet better. Alot of the reason ziks did so well was because there was next to no Terran BS and because Ascendancy went zik.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2008, 12:53   #66
Alezzar
Bibliophile
 
Alezzar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 163
Alezzar is infamous around these parts
Re: Stats Round 27

Any ideas when we will know the new stats & who's doing them ?
__________________
r16-r18 - ROCK
r19-r21 - Subh
r22 - TGV
r24-r26 Vengeance
r27-r29 - Ascendancy
r30 - r35 - New Dawn
r36 -r37 - Euphoria
r43 - r46 - New Dawn
r47 - r51 - Ultores
r67 - - New Dawn
Alezzar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2008, 18:48   #67
Wishmaster
LDK
 
Wishmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
Wishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

I d rather like to see the stats from 2 rounds ago back with some changes, than tweaking of the current set.

Also, a point not enough here realises when talking about changes.. t1t2t3.
Imo Weird target priorities for etd cr along with shit innit was what made em utter useless.
__________________
[Omen]

Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
Wishmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2008, 19:36   #68
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

I dont think there has been much need to talk about T1/T2/T3 because we have talked about so few changes!

if we went back to round 25 stats then cathaar would need some serious beefing up to make them a more playable race. other than that the thing that sticks in my mind most is the carnage when bombers encountered nightmares! changing spiders to T1 fr might help as I remember always being offered alot of spiders as a TGV DC. Also there was effectively nothing that could be done by alliances about cutters as there was no emp eta 7 that targeted co/fi - all I can remember off the top of my head
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2008, 19:58   #69
Delver
Ensign
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23
Delver has a spectacular aura aboutDelver has a spectacular aura about
Re: Stats Round 27

Well, I was quite happy with round 26 stats. Played zik, and ended in lower half of top 100, but personally think I could have achieved the same with all races except cathar (as I don't have a big pool of def to draw from).

With respect to round 27 stats, I have no strong opinion regarding tweaking or rewriting these from scratch.

However, it is my impression that the number of team-ups has increased during the last couple of rounds, and this obviously has an impact on gameplay and strategy. Even the biggest planets get roided by team-ups these days, while single attack fleets seems to be increasingly hard to land. This round, it seems like only heavy terran BS-fleets, Cat CR-fleets and to some extent zik de-fleets were able to land alone.

Dunno if this development is good. I had a regular team-up every day second half of round, but that is not achieveable for new or semi-active players.
__________________
I came. I saw. I didn't understand what was going on. I left.
Delver is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 May 2008, 20:28   #70
Cochese
Retired
 
Cochese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
Cochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

I'd be inclined to agree with changing the Lancer to a De, and adding Cr as t2.

Not at all sure what to do about the Cr fleet though...I didn't really mess with it. Could probably do with some beefing up to make it more appealing.
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.

Utterly useless since r3
Cochese is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 00:03   #71
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

The problem i see with Cath is not the targeting (even though they have 5 ships targetting DE which is imho 1 too many) but the fact they have 3 BS and no FR or DE... I think one of these BS, possibly the Black Widow, should become a FR or a DE.
Also I understand people thinking in term of ally def or team-ups, I think the stats should be designed for solo playing first.
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 02:53   #72
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
The problem i see with Cath is not the targeting (even though they have 5 ships targetting DE which is imho 1 too many) but the fact they have 3 BS and no FR or DE... I think one of these BS, possibly the Black Widow, should become a FR or a DE.
What are your reasons for thinking this? My reasons for doing it the way it was done this way were a) create more emp flak for caths and b) avoid the need for cathaar to build medium factories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
Alot of the reason ziks did so well was because there was next to no Terran BS and because Ascendancy went zik.
It's worth noting here that the the number of t500 ziks is almost exactly in line with the number of ziks overall.

If we are to retain this set I'd probably do something like making the phoenix an fi and flip the targetting. Or you could approach it from the other angle and change the harpy into a co. Regardless you're strengthening terran with regards to both xan and cath with either change (xan and cath being the races that were slightly more prevalent in the t500 with the scarcity of terrans).

Bar that something probably needs to be done about etd. I entirely disagree on making the lancer a de class ship, if you do that zik and terran bs need to shoot back at de otherwise they'll become unrealistically useless. I'd flip the targetting on both etd cr ships and the bs (this should mean that etd cr is now slightly improved at roiding cath and definitely capable of roiding zik).

The other minor changes I'd make would be to strengthen the bomber, drop the arrowhead down to an fi and make it harder to emp and put the init on the mantis back to 2.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 04:14   #73
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

Building a few medium factories for people chosing to produce BWs DE killships is not a major problem (the problem is having to research it when you can't build any ship of that class). Especially since it could then be used for ally def purpose.
Having 3 BS to multitarget only BS-CR and DE is a bit of a waste. To flak you need only 1 ship type. I don't know a Cath who built the 3 BS, but i guess there was... it is diluting the firepower though and I don't see the advantage.
the higher eta should be designed similar to the CO/FI
2 CO emp - 1 FI kill
2 CR emp - 1 BS kill
that leaves 2 ships to reintegrate the FR-DE class, but as I said only 1 would already be an improvement.

Caths could then choose to go offensive by concentrating on either attack fleet
or go defensive by building FR-DE
or try a mix that would improve their recurrent problem of not being able to attack and def (though they would have to pick smaller targets if they go this way).
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22

Last edited by Makhil; 20 May 2008 at 04:22.
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 04:40   #74
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Building a few medium factories for people chosing to produce BWs DE killships is not a major problem (the problem is having to research it when you can't build any ship of that class). Especially since it could then be used for ally def purpose.
This is just untrue. Cathaar have slow constructions and fast research. Researching fr/de hulls is not a problem. In fact it's not even an issue, it's not a disadvantage relative to what went before as what you're actually doing is researching fr/de+cr/bs hulls for the same number of ships. Having less factories to build is a relative advantage.

You don't seem to understand flak. Not everyone's going to build any one specific bs class ship. None of them are vital, half the point of cath this round was that you could only build 3 different ships if you wanted to. With three bs class ships however the odds are that many people will build one of them and therefore all those people will have flak.

To be honest your criticisms seem to be centred around rather minor aesthetic issues than actual concerns with the stats themselves.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 05:51   #75
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

My definition of flak: ships sent to flood emp ships, in order to allow more usefull ships to fire. In that regard, it's not important what the BS is targeting as it will be EMPed by tara before firing. Having 3 different BS just to act as flak is a waste.
'Slow' construction means 1 or 2 ticks difference, not a big deal. Who sets his population to max construction bonus anyway ? Dist whores and scanners...
Building medium factories would be a strategic choice, coz none of the cath FR-DE would be needed to attack...
I just think my suggestion is an improvement, and in term of flak it really gives more options to Cath when they seek def.
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22

Last edited by Makhil; 20 May 2008 at 06:09.
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 06:06   #76
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

It's not rhetoric, it's reason! And given that this is only a discussion forum it's all we have for the minute heh.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 07:05   #77
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

I agree with JBG, having the cathaar BS class ships is useful for flack, I certainly sent them with my cr fleets for that reason. While it was sometimes anoying that there was nothing to contribute to help bombers by absorbing emp when under attack by another cathaar player I dont think it is a major problem that is worth the disadvantage of having to buid factorys.

I like the idea of simply flipping the targeting of etd cr to make them able to attack ziks however they still have the problem that ziks have 4 ships that target cr. while the rogue may well be frozen by guardians and mauraders and buccs shot at 1st there is almost no way that the fireblades will get onto shooting the thief allowing the zik player to steal a load of lovely guardians, imo meaning the venture is still likely to be highly risky unless attacking a zik player that is smaller than the attacker.

nonetheless take the initiative of the fireblade down to 7 then roiding any terrans who have gone for bs as their choice of fleet becomes possible due to firings simultaneously with the drake, and similarly they can attack any zik who is focused on bs.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 08:30   #78
Membrivio
Leader of the Membrivians
Curveball Champion, Sober Santa 2 Champion
 
Membrivio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 412
Membrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

I agree with the tweaking of CR ships of ETD. In general however I think ETD was a quite playable race this round. I am not sure I can agree on the Cath BS proposition. What I can say was that they seemed somewhat overpowered to me. But hey that is something we say every round a Cath wins lol.
I can add somewhat to the discussion about Xan however. The bomber would need some strengthening, as the Peacekeeper is a very unuseful ship when you need to build fastly a DE fleet (or CO fleet) to get through on even easier targets. It was useful against BS ships but these came in team ups anyways so you would never have enough peacekeepers. (They were costly too!)
Another tweak I would like to see is that Xan ships in round 27 do target CO t1. Making Phantoms for instance targeting t1 CO or the Tzen targeting t1 CO would be a required tweak imo. Having 3 ships targeting t2 Co is a real disadvantage and is not fair versus other races.
What also could be a possibility is that sentinel, pulsar and dagger turn into fi, and teh current DE fleet into fr. That way Xans can have a choice between 2 decent attack fleets. But it might be a too big of an advantage next to cloaking, I am not sure.

Well, my 2 pence. Shoot at it ^^
__________________
R1-5: Unaffiliated / R19: Zik Union
R20-27 & 30-31 Orbit DC/BC/HC (Intelking!)
R29: Rock Member/Intel Officer
R35/36: p3nguins
R37: Evolution
R48: ODDR
R49: CT
[KB] [Mercenaries] [p0ny]

The intelligent man finds almost everything ridiculous, the sensible man hardly anything. (J.W. Goethe)
Membrivio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 08:43   #79
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

The race most over-represented in both the t100 and t500 were xan. As such any tweaking they are likely to require while retaining balance is going to be fairly minimal. I would imagine you actually played xan this round membrivio?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 09:22   #80
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

In my opinion doing much with zik\xan\cat is counterproductive as they were fine. Tuning the ter\etd is in my opinion the way to go.

Can we agree now that either the harpy or the phoenix should change their class and then phoenix having co\fi as targetting?

As etd where the problem is how to fix their cr\bs fleet without suddenly overpowering them(as they have been in some previous rounds). Doing what jbg said and flipping the targets around could work, but Im still not convinced thats enough to warrant them being built when you see how nice the FR is.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 10:56   #81
tobbe
Registered User
 
tobbe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: North
Posts: 227
tobbe is a splendid one to beholdtobbe is a splendid one to beholdtobbe is a splendid one to beholdtobbe is a splendid one to beholdtobbe is a splendid one to beholdtobbe is a splendid one to beholdtobbe is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
I d rather like to see the stats from 2 rounds ago back with some changes, than tweaking of the current set.
What he said.
Bring back r24 stats with a few tweaks maybee.
__________________
Memento mori !

VisioN Forever!
tobbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 11:19   #82
Membrivio
Leader of the Membrivians
Curveball Champion, Sober Santa 2 Champion
 
Membrivio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 412
Membrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBG
The race most over-represented in both the t100 and t500 were xan. As such any tweaking they are likely to require while retaining balance is going to be fairly minimal. I would imagine you actually played xan this round membrivio?
Yes I did.
To recap what I said, connecting to what you (and IsildurX) said:
Changes to the bomber and peacekeeper (in for instance damage of the bomber and the cost of the peacekeeper) could be called minimal. Agree?
The flip of target of 1 of the 3 ships targeting CO from t2 to t1 would be a fair change imo, as Terran would get Phoenix with t1 Anti Co, in comparison to this round. This will leave Xan as the only race with not targeting any attack fleet t1. (Although, then the Drake needs some target tweaking as well to t1CR or summat like that, but I feel there is a tendency here on the forum to have a change in that area as well.) This would make a complete package, imo.
The class changes you may perceive as somewhat too radical. I agree, if you are looking for minimal changes.

Same 2 pence, more elaborated.
__________________
R1-5: Unaffiliated / R19: Zik Union
R20-27 & 30-31 Orbit DC/BC/HC (Intelking!)
R29: Rock Member/Intel Officer
R35/36: p3nguins
R37: Evolution
R48: ODDR
R49: CT
[KB] [Mercenaries] [p0ny]

The intelligent man finds almost everything ridiculous, the sensible man hardly anything. (J.W. Goethe)

Last edited by Membrivio; 20 May 2008 at 11:24.
Membrivio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 14:45   #83
.Disc.
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 227
.Disc. is on a distinguished road
Re: Stats Round 27

ever since Planetarion introduced Xanthrii i've gone them, didnt start til tick 400 odd, I went with the sort of fleet of

5 Phantoms
3 pulsar
2 Sentinels
2 Bombers
0.5 Daggers

Don't get me wrong, i got a fair bit of incs, and i needed my gal to help me out a fair few times, but roiding was easy, after 600 ticks i finished with 1300 roids, and thats after getting 5+ waved twice and getting knocked back down from 800 to 150-200 twice.

So its the same as always for Xans, good at stealing roids, but can't really keep hold of them.

For R27, i'm not sure what i'm going to play, want to compete for #1 spot, yet i fear if i change from Xan i'll need a few rounds to get used to the new style, I've always enjoyed playing FI/CO, so i'm thinking Cath, Beetles, Spiders, Mosquitos,all fairly good at roiding, just harder to land as they don't kill anything, so even a small ammount of ships can fk up your bcalc, any suggestions on what i should choose? or should i stay xan and get a good group of BP players, and choose between us what defence ships we build.

i.e one builds anti fi/co, other anti fr/de, other anti cr/bs, and probs one with anti fi/co/fr/de combo

HELP
.Disc. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 14:51   #84
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Disc.
So its the same as always for Xans, good at stealing roids, but can't really keep hold of them.
That's like the opposite to what i've found with Xan, as an avid Xan players (though absent the last couple of rounds) - i found that Xan were pretty good defensively (only open to one attack fleet usually), but were really hard to attack with (either crash or crash through). Plus, because their ships were generally fast and high damage, they were handy for alliance defence, and because of their poor EMP resistance, they often needed to be home to out-flak caths, and due to their low armour and formerlly good init you needed to overwhelm your target else you took serious losses. The result being you never had enough ships .


But if you want to go for #1, then history would essentially suggest that you go Zik. Zik tend to get complex to attack (and thus better to hold onto your roids with; unlike cath), which means that if the round stagnates at all then you're going to be able to hold what you have and grow from a high base. If the round is more mobile, then Zik tends to be good attackers anyway, if not fantastically outstanding, so i'd suggest them.

I didnt like Zik at all when i last played them, but that was in R7 after just playing with best-init caths: swapping to worst-init Ziks was too hard for me .

That's what i reckon anyway.
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 14:59   #85
.Disc.
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 227
.Disc. is on a distinguished road
Re: Stats Round 27

hehe thanks for your advice, ill take zik into consideration, although i hate odd numbers, i need even numbers, and rounded to the nearest 0 numbers, its gonna be hell
.Disc. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 15:51   #86
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Disc.
hehe thanks for your advice, ill take zik into consideration, although i hate odd numbers, i need even numbers, and rounded to the nearest 0 numbers, its gonna be hell
haha! i'm the same
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 17:43   #87
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Stats Round 27

I had a quick think based on what JBG etc have said, and:

- bomber targetting from CR/BS -> BS/CR
- bomber D/C increased
- bomber E/R increased
- wyvern A/C increased
- phoenix class to FI
- fireblade targetting from FR/DE -> DE/FR
- broadsword damage increase, +5-10%
- a bunch of ship name changes

The bomber target change means we aren't putting a wrecking ball through the etd CR fleet by improving bomber firepower. The target change is offset by improving wyvern armour to prevent terran BS from being nerfed whilst the E/R increase reduces the improvement to cath CR.

The other changes to etd CR should improve them - the broadsword improvement brings it in line with wyvern and means it stands a better chance of taking on rogues.

The phoenix change is for the aforementioned reasons.

However, it also leaves two useless ships - arrowheads and peacekeepers & weakens zik BS.

As mentioned, this was from a quick think. I may have suggested something unbelievably stupid; if so, please point it out.

EDIT: Oh and it would be great if PA team would fix the stats tables by changing E/R to EMP armour. And then amalgamating guns & dmg.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 18:33   #88
Zaejii
This Space for Rent
Speedy Thief Champion, Turbo Turtle Champion, Cop-For-This Champion
 
Zaejii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
Zaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud of
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
put the init on the mantis back to 2.
yes. otherwise its basically useless for cr targetting. either change it to init 2 or just change t2 imo.
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
Zaejii is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 19:20   #89
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

As for Xan(i saw some debate about it up top) once you get big value its REALLY hard to get roids with it unless you fake(then you can land vs xan def) or if you team. Thats how it is for most races though, including zik.

I honestly believe going for top spot depends more on the player than the race and that a 'great' player(what is a great player anyhow) can get a good finish in a decent gal with any race.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 May 2008, 21:57   #90
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobbe
What he said.
Bring back r24 stats with a few tweaks maybee.
r24 and 25 had a grand total of 10 top 100 caths between them (with one of these being a cov-opper), with a higher number of serious players at least attempting cath (certainly in r24).

I don't agree with gate's suggestion regarding the bomber. The bomber deserves some slight improvement but that's about it. It's worth bearing in mind at this point that all of these changes are essentially defensive, stagnative (as in they'll make it easier to hold onto your roids) in nature.

Membrivio, I disagree that changing t1s and t2s are minimal changes. Efficiencies are what I'm referring to. As I said previously strengthening xan, especially with regards to the co fleet hitting terran, is really not what we want if our emphasis is on balance.

Someone mentioned the thief above. I disagree that this would be a serious problem for etd cr. You're either going to have to stay with your de and get pretty ****ing annihilated or you're going to have a ton of resources invested in an off-roiding class ship which will leave you weakened versus cath cr.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2008, 07:04   #91
Oizo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20
Oizo is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
I had a quick think based on what JBG etc have said, and:
EDIT: Oh and it would be great if PA team would fix the stats tables by changing E/R to EMP armour. And then amalgamating guns & dmg.
I cant comment on the first proposed changes, as i havent been that active this round, though the emp thing is interesting for sure

You gain alot of simplification, BUT you loose the option to change emp t2/3 efficiency...
Id like to see it, so nothing like r26 t1 100% t2 100% stuff happens again.
Oizo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2008, 07:55   #92
Reese
If not never; then once.
 
Reese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 190
Reese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud of
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobbe
What he said.
Bring back r24 stats with a few tweaks maybee.
Agreed.

I'd rather see r24 or 25 stats brought back but with slight adjustments, then r26 used twice in a row...
__________________
You must know that an interesting fate awaits almost everyone, mouse or man, who does not conform.
Reese is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2008, 10:11   #93
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stats Round 27

I want to know why people seem to think round r24/25 stats were better than round 26 stats, round 26 seemed rather more balanced to me and I remember there being alot of problems with def fleets effectively being sent on suicide missions in r24/25

is it simply that you dont want the same stats for a 2nd round in a row?
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2008, 10:58   #94
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Cant honestly want to bring back r24 stats and have half the uni as xans?
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2008, 11:50   #95
Reese
If not never; then once.
 
Reese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 190
Reese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud ofReese has much to be proud of
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji
I want to know why people seem to think round r24/25 stats were better than round 26 stats, round 26 seemed rather more balanced to me and I remember there being alot of problems with def fleets effectively being sent on suicide missions in r24/25

is it simply that you dont want the same stats for a 2nd round in a row?
Well I would rather see 25 then 24 personally. 24 was too heavy with xan, 25 all races were pretty equal, check out the top 10 and top 100 of r25 vs this round. The stats were more balanced overall, only thing that would need "tweaking" would be cath.

Same stats 2 rounds in a row though would create an articificially "balanced" universe. People would pick their race primarily based on the previous round. Would it really be so much fun to see 70-75% zik? Cause that is what would happen, imo. Whereas, at least, if you go back a round there is some feel of change.
__________________
You must know that an interesting fate awaits almost everyone, mouse or man, who does not conform.
Reese is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2008, 12:23   #96
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
Would it really be so much fun to see 70-75% zik? Cause that is what would happen, imo.
I'll take that bet.


In any case this is a pointless discussion. r26 stats were far superior to both r24 and r25, so going back is a bad idea.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2008, 12:33   #97
Hude
self-entitledly superior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 341
Hude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant future
Re: Stats Round 27

r24 had 42 xans in t100
r25 had 36 terrans in t100
r26 had 33 ziks in t100

Now considering asc went almost all ter in r25 and all zik in r26, hence asc's contribution to t100 is mostly those races, which round do you think was most balanced?

r26 > r25 > r24
Hude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2008, 13:13   #98
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stats Round 27

Hude is ofc right(for once).
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2008, 16:00   #99
Hude
self-entitledly superior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 341
Hude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant future
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
Hude is ofc right(like always).
Hude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 May 2008, 17:55   #100
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reese
Well I would rather see 25 then 24 personally. 24 was too heavy with xan, 25 all races were pretty equal, check out the top 10 and top 100 of r25 vs this round. The stats were more balanced overall, only thing that would need "tweaking" would be cath.

Same stats 2 rounds in a row though would create an articificially "balanced" universe. People would pick their race primarily based on the previous round. Would it really be so much fun to see 70-75% zik? Cause that is what would happen, imo. Whereas, at least, if you go back a round there is some feel of change.
I would rather redesign an entire set of stats from scratch than see the appalling race that was r25 zik return. Or the fact that as a terran you only had one possible alliance def ship (which you might not have built anyways). Or cath. Regardless of final rankings most of these didn't play balanced, there were certain things you had to do and certain things you couldn't do. This is not a healthy paradigm. It's like forcing people to xp whore if they sign up for a particular race.

To be honest the whole idea that zik were dramatically overpowered last round is just ****ing wrong. Sixteen (that's half of the total) of the ziks in the t100 were ascendancy. If we'd all gone xan as originally planned there'd probably be sixteen more xans and half the number of ziks. In fact in everything bar t10/100 the dominant race of last round was xan.

Edit: I had a look at asc's final rankings last round. Of the 31 players in ascendancy who I'd consider to have played relatively seriously for the entire round (i'm being generous here considering jer literally did nothing for 3 weeks of the round but i included him anyways), 22 were zik and 9 non-zik. From this 22:9 ratio we ended up with a 16:6 t100 ratio which amusingly enough indicates that, at least in the context of ascendancy, the other races as a whole actually performed better than zik.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.

Last edited by JonnyBGood; 21 May 2008 at 18:03.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018