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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 18:16   #51
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
I think we just have to sum up everything thats been said and put this thread to bed....
It won't be put to bed, you can be sure of that

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
1. The split tags will be allied so they cant farm each other..
I notice you have deliberately sidestepped the defending each other. I believe someone from xVx have already confirmed that this may/will happen.

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
2. Both tags will be between 30-40 members and therefore unlikely to be going for alliance win..
Unlikely, I imagine xVx will recruit and Aet will dwindle as players stop playing. They have already admitted to lack of activity, that will only drop as they get roided. Maybe a merge will happen before tick 300 after all.

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
3. Aether (the laid back tag) will still contain a bulk of decent xVx's members and is more just for people who dont have the time to be involved in wars and battling for top spots..
Just what pa needs, a group of players who don't have the time to fight back. Won't be long before the roids are gone and the tag is defunct.

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
4. If CT or ND have to resort to 'farming' Aether for roids it will just show up their attacking shortcomings again....
I don't believe CT's attacking has ever been called into doubt though, seeing as they are one of the best roiding alliances.
Interesting how you choose to highlight CT/ND though, but I guess that happens when an alliance continually finishes above you and gives you a good kicking.

That said, I imagine that there won't be so much attacking from them, they wil want to go where the roids are and it won't take long for roids to dry up.

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
i would imagine alliances such as Apprime and Ultores will attack those around them for the most part (who depends on how politics fall) so hopefully Aether will be left alone to galaxy raid and have fun spats with alliances around them in the rankings which from what i read is what they want.
Ultores? Didn't they spend half the last round attacking DLR for easy roids?
Apprime? Don't they have history of hitting the top alliances as and when they can?
I don't think they would avoid easy roids until it is not in their interest.

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
5. Aether and xVx will run completely independently politically, attacking and defensively - they are not there to back each other up and are to be considered seperate alliances completely.
No they won't.

Intel already suggests that they will buddy together. They will naturally look out for each other. They certainly won't be independent and claiming so will just make you look silly when they get caught out.

To summarise the round from Aethers POV.

1) They will get roided down by the bigger guys fairly quickly, probably by accident as they won't be so active in defence.

2) The bigger guys will move on to real targets, by which time the co-ord list will be out.

3) Middling to small alliances will take any roids that are left.

4) Because they aren't so active, they won't gain roids and will go inactive.

5) xVx will realise that far from allowing members to play in the style they wish, they have inadvertantly made players quit quicker as they go inactive, rather than being part of a more active community.

I think that sums it up pretty much
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 18:18   #52
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

i feel violently sick saying this but......what forest said.
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 19:41   #53
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

Time will tell
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 20:12   #54
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

I think Forest yet again is in this mistaken belief that everyone will easily roid Aether.

I think he massively underestimates the skill level in the alliance. Take for example Howling Rain, in most round they have 2-3 players who can achieve top 100 and a maxium of 10-12 that will acheive a top 200 ranking.. out of 60 odd members (the rest being scattered back throughout the 300-400's mainly) but that doesnt mean they are a crap alliance.. it doesnt mean they cant defend and attack successfully night after night. Yes it might be a case that if one of the contending alliances came after them properly then after a few days they would struggle to contain the losses but against alliances at the same level as themselves they can more than hold there own.

I know this because i HCed an alliance that played down in those areas of PA (ranking 7-12). Im not disillusioned enough to think we were amazing or ever played above our station but i think like alliances such as HeX or HR or ROCK or ODDR (of a few rounds ago) or ToF and now DFWTK were a tough nut to crack and can be a pain in the ass to roid sometimes.


Just basically saying just because Aether isnt filled with players aiming to secure top end ranks that doesnt mean it cant compete in PA, infact the community spirit it has will get it 50% there alone
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 20:16   #55
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

And in regards to the stupid bping comment that was also made.. Im bping with 2 guys from TGV does that mean were allied now???

Such a retarded thing to say from you Forest, friends will bp with friends regardless of what alliances they are from - it doesnt mean that there in cohorts on a grander scale...

I beleive the xVx HC bped with some of the ND HC last round i see that worked out and xVx and ND were happily allied all round long......
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 20:29   #56
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
I think Forest yet again is in this mistaken belief that everyone will easily roid Aether.
I think you are mistaken about how easy it will be.
It is very easy to roid xVx, so why would you think it would be harder if you remove the active players?

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
I think he massively underestimates the skill level in the alliance. Take for example Howling Rain, in most round they have 2-3 players who can achieve top 100 and a maxium of 10-12 that will acheive a top 200 ranking.. out of 60 odd members (the rest being scattered back throughout the 300-400's mainly) but that doesnt mean they are a crap alliance.. it doesnt mean they cant defend and attack successfully night after night. Yes it might be a case that if one of the contending alliances came after them properly then after a few days they would struggle to contain the losses but against alliances at the same level as themselves they can more than hold there own.
I disagree. I think they have a lot more members who can achieve top 100. They just don't have enough quality members to ensure it. But I bet you could take 20% of any of the lower ranked alliances and stick them into the top alliances and they would be more than capable of achieving top 100. And that is a conservative estimate.

You seem to be under the illusion that pa takes a lot of skill. You would be wrong. It takes activity. It takes dedication. It takes common sense. But anyone can make top 100 these days.
Remove activity and decication (as is the case with Aet) and you end up with a lot of small planets.
It also requires a decent alliance to back it up, but you have removed that from the equation too.


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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
I know this because i HCed an alliance that played down in those areas of PA (ranking 7-12). Im not disillusioned enough to think we were amazing or ever played above our station but i think like alliances such as HeX or HR or ROCK or ODDR (of a few rounds ago) or ToF and now DFWTK were a tough nut to crack and can be a pain in the ass to roid sometimes.
The difference being, Rock/HR etc etc have those dedicated players that will give a lot of activity. Aet by your own admission won't. So even a 1:1 war Rock v Aet will see Aet beaten fairly quickly imo.

Thank you for your history in HC'ing. It wasn't needed though. I would wager that most of the xVx that you refer to have a longer history and a lot more respect.
What would I know though, I am just a newbie, right?

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Just basically saying just because Aether isnt filled with players aiming to secure top end ranks that doesnt mean it cant compete in PA, infact the community spirit it has will get it 50% there alone
No, it won't. If an alliance has no roids, it can't compete. And if it has poor activity to go with that, then it won't gain roids either. It will very quickly find it can't even build enough ships to do the simplest of gal raids.
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 20:33   #57
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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And in regards to the stupid bping comment that was also made.. Im bping with 2 guys from TGV does that mean were allied now???

Such a retarded thing to say from you Forest, friends will bp with friends regardless of what alliances they are from - it doesnt mean that there in cohorts on a grander scale...

I beleive the xVx HC bped with some of the ND HC last round i see that worked out and xVx and ND were happily allied all round long......
If it is alliance wide and most xVx were bp'ing with TGV, then yes that would bring about a certain amount of co-operation.

Therefore, if (and I am pretty certain they have), Aet and xVx are budding on a fairly wide scale, then that would bring about a certain amount of co-operation.

Whether this will make it easier for xVx or harder time will tell, I know my thoughts on it and I won't be sharing them here.

You should note though, in the what, 10? years I have been posting here, I have a reputation for not lying and I am usually pretty secure in what I say as being correct.

I guess that is because I can answer a post with thought and explain my reasoning rather than 'you are stupid and retarded' which I guess is why you are a laughing stock here
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 20:42   #58
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

See this is where we disagree ... you are taking lack of activity to mean basically inactive.

Wheras infact all it means is these players dont want to be sat at there computers until 4am like they will be in the hardcore tag. They will still be active just not 24/7 warring machines like Santa expects from xVx.

This is why i was refering to HR and ROCK and HeX - that is the kind of activity levels they can expect - there will be a few that will be super active and there will be a few that arent active at all - but for the most part the activity level in Aether will more that compete in the lower end of the top ten.


But on a sidenote activity is not everything, a good structure and def system is everything in pa.


I wouldnt consider a lot of players in Ultores as SUPER ACTIVE but they obviously have a system in place where if you get smsed then you log in and send ships to defend and its probably like marshall law that you do so. DLR had it a few rounds ago where they could get there whole alliance to send ships within the hour. That isnt activity, thats just following orders and being organised.

Infact invariably the players that end up sitting 'playing' the game for X amount of hours a day end up crashing out or mucking up at some point and you find that the more experienced players can end up with top ranks through little activity and just a good strategy.


I dont think your a newbie Forest just from what history of your pa career you laid out before you have played 1 round of PAX and that wasnt as a HC. I think back in the early rounds when you played your points were probably quite valid but PA is vastly different game these days.. massively insular and unwelcoming, where the cool kids get stronger and the weak get pushed down. If your face doesnt fit then you have no chance ever...
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 20:50   #59
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

after some good posts you seem to have reverted to your usual style forest. you may not be lying in this thread but that doesnt really mean anything when you are merely putting forward your opinion on what might happen.

kaiba, you say "if your face doesnt fit" but my first round back after 20 away (r37) i got into an alliance without knowing anyone and went on to have a fair amount of authority in that alliance. felt pretty welcoming to me.
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 20:55   #60
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

On a sidenote i do actually read what you say and take in what your trying to get across with your post. I may use comments such as retarded but that is purely through my own fustration sometimes.

I just think you come across with having a very negative and narrow outlook to everything that is written that you dont 100% agree with.

From a neutral perpective this thread was started by Santa as a way to explain what xVx were doing in Rd 44 and try to not cause uproar at tickstart, i think his post was very clear in what his intentions were and what he wanted to happen with both tags.

Then came the negative replies.. yes mine was first because in an unbyast way im not 100% precent agreeance with the tactic as i think it weakens xVx as a whole but as a loyal member i will do whats asked of me and play as the HC want..

I just find it annoying that certain people started going on about farming and belittling Aethers chances.. making them seem like an alliance like ASS used to be or possibly someone like NGO is now.. full of free roids for everyone to take. Like they will be creating planets then logging in once a week to build some ships

Thats so not what its gonna be like!! I think maybe Santa has a different opinion what he considers active and commited to possibly what someone reading this thread does. There is still some kick ass players in Aether and they have a good leadership team.. i fully beleive they will hold there own in this round and possibly suprise a few people along the way.
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 20:57   #61
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

Rein but you have a face that fits - i would consider you one of the 'cool kids' on irc and pa in general. The point still stands tho that in this game if you do something the 'incrowd' doesnt agree with then you are pretty much pariahed for eternity
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 21:32   #62
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
after some good posts you seem to have reverted to your usual style forest. you may not be lying in this thread but that doesnt really mean anything when you are merely putting forward your opinion on what might happen.
I think I said they were bp'ing together and only time will tell how it works out
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 21:46   #63
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
See this is where we disagree ... you are taking lack of activity to mean basically inactive.
I don't think I did say that, maybe you could quote where I did?
I think what I said was, their lack of activity will lead to them going inactive.


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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Wheras infact all it means is these players dont want to be sat at there computers until 4am like they will be in the hardcore tag. They will still be active just not 24/7 warring machines like Santa expects from xVx.
Then they a) not be able to hold onto roids as well and b) not be in a position to gain as many back. Thus they will end up going inactive.

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
This is why i was refering to HR and ROCK and HeX - that is the kind of activity levels they can expect - there will be a few that will be super active and there will be a few that arent active at all - but for the most part the activity level in Aether will more that compete in the lower end of the top ten.
I disagree. Rock and HR will have those uber active players. Aet will not.

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But on a sidenote activity is not everything, a good structure and def system is everything in pa.
Yes but as has been shown, xVx crash a lot and get roided at will. What makes you think that the same structure will be more effective in a less active memberbase?

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I wouldnt consider a lot of players in Ultores as SUPER ACTIVE but they obviously have a system in place where if you get smsed then you log in and send ships to defend and its probably like marshall law that you do so. DLR had it a few rounds ago where they could get there whole alliance to send ships within the hour. That isnt activity, thats just following orders and being organised.
I would call quite a lot of them super active actually. That IS activity. Activity is being active when you are needed, for example defending and attacking.

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Infact invariably the players that end up sitting 'playing' the game for X amount of hours a day end up crashing out or mucking up at some point and you find that the more experienced players can end up with top ranks through little activity and just a good strategy.
Those top players will still need to be active at the right times.
You really think that being less active brings more success and that players sat at the comp end up crashing and mucking up?
xVx must have a lot of players sat at the comp a lot

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I dont think your a newbie Forest just from what history of your pa career you laid out before you have played 1 round of PAX and that wasnt as a HC. I think back in the early rounds when you played your points were probably quite valid but PA is vastly different game these days.. massively insular and unwelcoming, where the cool kids get stronger and the weak get pushed down. If your face doesnt fit then you have no chance ever...
PA has always been like that.
However, for your information I have played a lot more than 1 round of PAX. I have played many rounds as both HC and Officer and also the odd round of just being a 'normal member'.
You don't sign up for one round of pa, telling the hc 'I can't be active and I will be quitting soon' in your interview and get multiple offers to join top alliances if you have never played PAX.

And I also believe I proved to a lot of people that don't know me to be one of the best DC's/BC's in PA today, even after your perceived lack of playing time in PAX.
I have played with some of the best alliances there have ever been or worked with them, including some of the top names you will think of these days.
Little happens within PA that I don't know about, I have personal friends as HC in just about every alliance there has been in the past 10 years.

Now, lets not make this about my history, which I think now you will see is a pretty decent one, and stay on the topic in hand.

It is my belief that the HC of xVx have made a pretty serious mistake, for the reasons I have stated in this thread
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 21:59   #64
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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On a sidenote i do actually read what you say and take in what your trying to get across with your post. I may use comments such as retarded but that is purely through my own fustration sometimes.
That usually happens when someone is losing an argument.

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I just think you come across with having a very negative and narrow outlook to everything that is written that you dont 100% agree with.
I don't think I do. I have broken your posts down into smaller parts and given my views on each part. Maybe if you did the same to mine you would get more respect and your views would be taken into account more.

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From a neutral perpective this thread was started by Santa as a way to explain what xVx were doing in Rd 44 and try to not cause uproar at tickstart, i think his post was very clear in what his intentions were and what he wanted to happen with both tags.
I think his post was very clear too. But it was also what he didn't say as well as what he did.
I guess those of us more in the know will have a clearer understanding of that though and I don't blame you for not realising that.
However, as soon as Santa made a tick to explain, he invited comments on it and people are bound to say what they think.

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Then came the negative replies.. yes mine was first because in an unbyast way im not 100% precent agreeance with the tactic as i think it weakens xVx as a whole but as a loyal member i will do whats asked of me and play as the HC want..
Loyalty is fine. Blind loyalty on such a public forum though could just end up making you look a bit silly. If you don't agree with the tactic and think it will weaken the alliance (which is EXACTLY what I have been saying) and then spend your time saying the opposite and how great it is, then you will, as you just did, come unstuck and show your true colours.

Sid, one of the best leaders of all PA history, would expect total loyalty, but he would never expect people to show such blind loyalty on the forums. He would be more likely to post what he thought and ban his members from posting on AD.

I don't know, maybe it is because you appear to have had such a rough ride with other alliances and they have kicked you, you are just trying to hard?
Sometimes it is best to not post at all?

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I just find it annoying that certain people started going on about farming and belittling Aethers chances.. making them seem like an alliance like ASS used to be or possibly someone like NGO is now.. full of free roids for everyone to take. Like they will be creating planets then logging in once a week to build some ships
I think that is exactly how it will end up and the tag will not last a full round. Time will indeed tell.

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Thats so not what its gonna be like!! I think maybe Santa has a different opinion what he considers active and commited to possibly what someone reading this thread does. There is still some kick ass players in Aether and they have a good leadership team.. i fully beleive they will hold there own in this round and possibly suprise a few people along the way.
We will see.

There is one thing you should know about me though. I have spent a large portion of my time in PA trying to do things for the community, to build the community and make it more fun for all. A quick search on here will show a decent amount of posts about it.
So please don't think I am posting just to have a pop at a 'community initiative'.

I will be the first to hold my hands up if I am wrong.

But I just don't feel this is the right thing for either xVx or PA as a whole and will make people go inactive quicker rather than keep them longer.
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 22:56   #65
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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See this is where we disagree ... you are taking lack of activity to mean basically inactive.
Please enlighten me, if you aren't active what are you?
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Unread 25 Oct 2011, 23:33   #66
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Please enlighten me, if you aren't active what are you?
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 00:28   #67
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
But I just don't feel this is the right thing for either xVx or PA as a whole and will make people go inactive quicker rather than keep them longer.
The ppl who i expect to be in Aether have a way of going inactive after the first prolonged exposure to incs anyhow. If anything, playing in Aether will extend the time they play actively imho, because they will not become subject to such prolonged exposure as they won't play an active role in any war xVx will pick.

If you take last round for example, xVx was exposed to a 14 day period of 'heavy' incs. In that period the xVx in my gal were subject to incs 10 days, even when they had less than 400 roids. Needless to say this had a straining effect on us. Out of the 5 xVx in my gal i would assume 2 would be in Aether. If those 2 had been in Aether last round i doubt they would have gotten the same amount of incs (because they would have been less of a threat to the ND/CT/DLR block).
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 01:34   #68
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

Well, I am playing in Aether. Last round I was between uni and jobs, this round, I hopefully wont have as much time for pa because of work commitments, but I am still able to attack each night etc, def most, but wont be available for live bc'ing etc.

Before the announcement of two tags, I was telling people I was not playing this round, as it was my plan. However, when this option was provided, I am happy to play amongst my friends in this game, without feeling as I am dragging them down and actually getting the occational good night of sleep.
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 06:16   #69
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

lol, is this Forest guy (nope, seriously dont know who u are) for real ? or just trolling out of boredom?

neways.. no u dont need to be active in pa these days to be good.. one has to be there for a tp, then prelaunch his att(s), login for 5mins in the morning to send def(s), set base fleet on "run like french" AND be there eta1 to landing (ideally one has a team neways, where someone calcs the stuff and sms`s others or something)..

thats about it.. u do that, get a good alliance to back u up with def occasionaly, dont crash and ure guaranteed top100 :P

PS: I was quite amused to history lesson as well.. that really sounded... awesome

for the sake of this thread..
1) who are gonna be HCing Aether?
2) i got a feeling that Aether will start defing or gettin involved in xVx`s politics from time to time, specially when its hard times.. thats what i would do at least.. and i cant see neone having a right to argue against that either, since its quite a valid tactics to direct 2nd tag to ure targets once in a while for instance for a lil help and improve the odds for a success.. if someone does not know how to DC or just simply sucks then there will be emo and moaning starting.. but who cares lol.. gl xVx !
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 11:18   #70
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I think you are mistaken about how easy it will be.
It is very easy to roid xVx, so why would you think it would be harder if you remove the active players?
oh really? so tell me, when did your alliance last tried to go on a war like real men without taking all their allies with them? With such politics even roiding FURY or LEGION would be easy.

People have to argue the shit out really... We saw how easy it was for your alliance when they crashed even though we were badly outnumbered. You shouldnt have openen this box.
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 16:08   #71
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post
The ppl who i expect to be in Aether have a way of going inactive after the first prolonged exposure to incs anyhow. If anything, playing in Aether will extend the time they play actively imho, because they will not become subject to such prolonged exposure as they won't play an active role in any war xVx will pick.

If you take last round for example, xVx was exposed to a 14 day period of 'heavy' incs. In that period the xVx in my gal were subject to incs 10 days, even when they had less than 400 roids. Needless to say this had a straining effect on us. Out of the 5 xVx in my gal i would assume 2 would be in Aether. If those 2 had been in Aether last round i doubt they would have gotten the same amount of incs (because they would have been less of a threat to the ND/CT/DLR block).
Then you haven't read my posts.
I believe they will get even more sustained incoming, not less, because their hc have kindly informed the community it is a less than active alliance so they will be hit by more alliances for longer.

Time will tell if I am right though.

And if xVx are at war and also if they are bp'd with Aet, then the Aet will get hit anyway as they are effectively part of xVx and have already said they will defend each other.
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 16:09   #72
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Tri View Post
Well, I am playing in Aether. Last round I was between uni and jobs, this round, I hopefully wont have as much time for pa because of work commitments, but I am still able to attack each night etc, def most, but wont be available for live bc'ing etc.

Before the announcement of two tags, I was telling people I was not playing this round, as it was my plan. However, when this option was provided, I am happy to play amongst my friends in this game, without feeling as I am dragging them down and actually getting the occational good night of sleep.
I hope you are right, I just don't see it happening.
As has been said, time will tell
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 16:18   #73
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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lol, is this Forest guy (nope, seriously dont know who u are) for real ? or just trolling out of boredom?
I am for real, if you haven't heard of me then you are probably a nobody.

However, I don't think it is trolling when I have taken my time to break posts down and comment on them, giving my thoughts and reasons behind it.

Maybe if more people did the same, these forums wouldn't be so dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
neways.. no u dont need to be active in pa these days to be good.. one has to be there for a tp, then prelaunch his att(s), login for 5mins in the morning to send def(s), set base fleet on "run like french" AND be there eta1 to landing (ideally one has a team neways, where someone calcs the stuff and sms`s others or something)..
Breaking top 100 is easy because of lack of players. However, to have a truly good round, as an alliance you need members who will log in and defend, be online to recall defence and send it out again as many times as possible etc, send more than one attack a day if defended and take the time to scan properly, working out which defence is real, fake etc etc. That takes more than just a few mins.

Also, let us be clear, as an alliance orientated player, the only rank I take notice of personally is the alliance rank and it is the only reason I play the game, so my replies on this thread and on this forum in general have that in mind.

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
thats about it.. u do that, get a good alliance to back u up with def occasionaly, dont crash and ure guaranteed top100 :P
They won't have a good alliance to back them up, they will have a load of other guys not being fully active enough to send the defence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
PS: I was quite amused to history lesson as well.. that really sounded... awesome
Well I am an awesome kind of guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
for the sake of this thread..
1) who are gonna be HCing Aether?
2) i got a feeling that Aether will start defing or gettin involved in xVx`s politics from time to time, specially when its hard times.. thats what i would do at least.. and i cant see neone having a right to argue against that either, since its quite a valid tactics to direct 2nd tag to ure targets once in a while for instance for a lil help and improve the odds for a success.. if someone does not know how to DC or just simply sucks then there will be emo and moaning starting.. but who cares lol.. gl xVx !
I don't think it is a valid tactic, I think it is underhand and cheating. Alliance maximums are their for a reason.
However, if I was xVx HC I would not post on this thread again, certainly not to clarify those two points.
No good can come from it
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 16:24   #74
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
oh really? so tell me, when did your alliance last tried to go on a war like real men without taking all their allies with them? With such politics even roiding FURY or LEGION would be easy.
It depends which alliance you count as 'mine'?

I could certainly give plenty of times down the years when an alliance I have been in total command of has gone to war against another with no allies. Infact, you must have gaps in your pa history if you don't know I am reknowned for declaring war.

I think you also underestimate how much incoming Fury and Legion would get, although that is a different debate altogether, pre-pax was a completely different game, although when I was allied with Fury/Legion we did get quite some incoming and when I was against them, I personally launched 7 or so alliances on 200 of their planets without much of a dent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
People have to argue the shit out really... We saw how easy it was for your alliance when they crashed even though we were badly outnumbered. You shouldnt have openen this box.
Again, my alliance?

And yours?
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 16:58   #75
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I think it is cheating.
I don't care much about your other comments, and I don't think it's a very good idea for xVx, but you're just wrong here. There is an alliance tag limit of 80. There is no alliance member limit. Pretty simple - it's not breaking any rules so therefore is not cheating.
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 17:38   #76
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Shev View Post
I don't care much about your other comments, and I don't think it's a very good idea for xVx, but you're just wrong here. There is an alliance tag limit of 80. There is no alliance member limit. Pretty simple - it's not breaking any rules so therefore is not cheating.
Maybe you should take more care in reading then.

I am not wrong because I didn't say it IS cheating.

I said I THINK it is underhand and cheating.

If it was cheating I would be the first to say so.

My point was, it is what I think. If it circumvents the 80 member tag to advantage then it defeats the purpose of having the 80 member tag. In which case you will see a huge outcry and the rules will be 'clarified' no doubt.

To put it in perspective, can you imagine this thread if LDK had made the same announcement?

That is all...
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 18:27   #77
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

The tag limits have been circumvented many times before, including by alliances swapping members in and out on a regular basis. It's not caused any huge outcry or change yet, and that has been with higher profile alliances(Apprime/Ascendancy).

Maybe you should do a little more research into what would cause a huge outcry.

And it doesn't matter what you think, it's not cheating. Cheating is breaking the rules of a game. This doesn't. Very straightforward.
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 18:43   #78
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

OK I will rephase.

I BELIEVE it SHOULD be classed as cheating.

Hope that helps.

Shame after all the good posts you decide to add little to the discussion except for a flame of me, but then where you and I are concerned, that is usually the case.

I would have thought by now you would have grown up
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 19:08   #79
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

Really? You call that a flame? Way to play the victim, man.
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 19:32   #80
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by forest View Post
shame after all the good posts you decide to add little to the discussion except for a flame of me, but then where you and i are concerned, that is usually the case.

I would have thought by now you would have grown up
I would like to assert that my opponent in debate lacks morals and engages in low tactics.

What do you mean I didn't have a point in the first place? Having points is not relevant to having an opinion. Stop oppressing me you fascist.

Edit: This was a lot better in all caps
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Unread 26 Oct 2011, 23:37   #81
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I would like to assert that my opponent in debate lacks morals and engages in low tactics.

What do you mean I didn't have a point in the first place? Having points is not relevant to having an opinion. Stop oppressing me you fascist.

Edit: This was a lot better in all caps
Amazing! You have reached almost 20k posts! epic.. just wanted to mention that
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 01:01   #82
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

Right, sorry, been off the forums for a while (and yet people still managed to argue without me, go figure) and have tried to read this thread post to post but it got a bit trolling in the middle there so I might have missed this...

xVx and Aet are both part of the same 5th Element community? So, who's in charge of "the community", who's in charge of xVx and who's in charge of Aet? I imagine xVx HC will remain largely the same, so who's taking over at Aet? Or is Aet going to be run as an autonomous collective?

Taking your "less active" (are we at least agreed on that?) players out of one tag and putting them into another has its advantages and it has its disadvantages.

One advantage is that by taking all the 'community players' out of one tag it means that the 'active players' can play as actively as they want, and perform as well as they want, without the additional players putting them into a position whereby they could be perceived to be 'competing for top rank'. Which in a way works out for the active players who want to play hard but never receive any incomings ever.

But then... putting your inactives in a second tag (with no command structure apparently) and 'allying' this tag, is - like people have said - painting a giant target on their heads.

Kaiba, I don't think anyone is really questioning the ability of the players in Aet or implying they are somewhat less 'able' to play Planetarion in any way other than their availability. But, by definition they'll be less active than the xVx tag and so will thus be easier to roid. You can argue with the logic all you like, but you'll start off wrong and then move slowly further away from having any kind of discernable point the longer you do it.

The other issue people seem to be pointing out is that, knowing there's going to be a tag which is going to be easier to roid than a more active tag, they're just going to get hit a lot. And if what Santa is saying is true, and there will be no cooperation between tags, then that IS just saying "here are our less active members, feel free to attack them without the risk of incurring any kind of retalliation by the group of players active enough to do anything about their friends getting hit".

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, xVx would stand by whilst every man and his corvette roided the hell out of Aet, as further indication that they're not looking to get involved. That would make me wonder whether perhaps xVx were offering the universe farms intentionally as to avoid any major incs for their bigger players. Slight of hand kinda stuff.

And guys, the last tick an alliance can merge is tick 662 (last time I checked).

Anyway, if somebody other than Kaiba from 5th Element can answer those questions, I'd appreciate it.
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 03:07   #83
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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But then... putting your inactives in a second tag (with no command structure apparently) and 'allying' this tag, is - like people have said - painting a giant target on their heads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaCruz View Post
they are there OWN alliance. They have their OWN hc's, their OWN bc's and their OWN dc's.
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 07:12   #84
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

If people stop asking questions thats already been awnsered and asks fresh ones, maybe a HC will awnser...
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 07:28   #85
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

some of those questions have not been asked before drukenviking, or have been asked and not answered. For example:

who is in charge of 5th element? <-- not been asked

who is HC of aether? <-- been asked but not answered
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 08:19   #86
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

I've got a Question to ask

Would both tags share intel with each other I.E. The infomation off say the alliance defence page?

I.E. AER gets Incoming and pass this info onto the xVx tag and got themselves some fine retals and set up live raids accordingly due to their activity.
(What I would call Live BCing)
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 08:27   #87
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
some of those questions have not been asked before drukenviking, or have been asked and not answered. For example:

who is in charge of 5th element? <-- not been asked

who is HC of aether? <-- been asked but not answered
I would imagine someone is HC ingame in Aether, and some others HC ingame in xVx? As to who that's not really any of your business.

I don't understand the paranoia with this decision. xVx will not win the round, is this why the CT posters are so upset - because they will get more attention throughout the round?
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 08:28   #88
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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I've got a Question to ask

Would both tags share intel with each other I.E. The infomation off say the alliance defence page?

I.E. AER gets Incoming and pass this info onto the xVx tag and got themselves some fine retals and set up live raids accordingly due to their activity.
(What I would call Live BCing)
So what if that did happen? All top alliances setup retals and fleet catches using intel from defence pages. Are you suggesting it would be wrong if Aether and xVx did this like any two other alliances that are napped ingame?
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 08:40   #89
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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So what if that did happen? All top alliances setup retals and fleet catches using intel from defence pages. Are you suggesting it would be wrong if Aether and xVx did this like any two other alliances that are napped ingame?
Not at all
I am just curious from a tactical perspective.

Infact I've always favoured Live BCing (map out your targets/watch for fleet movements, pick targets that are vunerable and use the element of surprise to full effect and co-ordinate a live attack accordingly) over conventional (pick a gal at 6-9pm gmt, open the raid folk pick targets without knowledge of wether their target fleet is going to be home or out on attack and alliance fleet movements, set prelaunch go zzz and wake up and jgp accordingly) raids
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 10:20   #90
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Gary View Post
I would imagine someone is HC ingame in Aether, and some others HC ingame in xVx? As to who that's not really any of your business.

I don't understand the paranoia with this decision. xVx will not win the round, is this why the CT posters are so upset - because they will get more attention throughout the round?
i never claimed it was my business, i was merely correcting drunkenviking. he said people were asking the same questions that had been answered already.

also, i am not paranoid about this decision. as my first post said, fair enough if they wanna do it goodluck to them.
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 10:45   #91
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Gary View Post
I would imagine someone is HC ingame in Aether, and some others HC ingame in xVx? As to who that's not really any of your business.

I don't understand the paranoia with this decision. xVx will not win the round, is this why the CT posters are so upset - because they will get more attention throughout the round?
I'm asking from a neutral perspective btw, so I don't know what CT has to do with anything, nor did I say or imply anywhere that this would put xVx into a round-winning position. IN FACT, I specifically said this would allow the players in the xVx tag to do well individually without their Aether friends PUTTING them into a round-winning position inadvertently.

Personally, I think the "who's who" is quite important. Santa said there will be no cooperation between tags, but if (for example) there's HCs in Aether who are also HCs in either the "community" that is 5th element, or xVx even, then certain conflicts of interests will arise. "Shared personnel" and all that.

Bottom line is, I'm not convinced this is a good idea practically and think this was basically just a way of trying to allow your top players (in the xVx tag) to play with as little incoming as possible, and justifying it by telling your less active players that "it's ok, you're still part of the community".

That's just how I've interpreted it, 'tis all.
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 10:49   #92
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Gary View Post
So what if that did happen? All top alliances setup retals and fleet catches using intel from defence pages. Are you suggesting it would be wrong if Aether and xVx did this like any two other alliances that are napped ingame?
Nobody said there'd be anything wrong with this, it'd just contradict Santa's "they will be completely independent of us" claim.

I have a little trouble buying this whole "We're going to have a second group of players, we're not going to tell you anything about them as it's none of your business but please leave them alone" thing you guys are trying to sell.
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 11:27   #93
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

is it really that hard to understand? do you guys really ask the shit out again?

Imagine, appointing a HC is not very hard and doesn't require any additional post in here. AET will not be unorganized. AET HAS its own HC. AET has its own politics. AET will do politics entirely independant from xVx. Is it that hard to conclude a seperate HC staff from these statements?

I guess so...

Regarding the question if there will be intel sharing: Withouth having any knowledge about that and as a member of either 1 of those 2 (not decided yet) I say YES we will share intel as any other napped alliance ingame does. This shouldnt be that surprising for you folks...
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 11:38   #94
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
is it really that hard to understand? do you guys really ask the shit out again?

Imagine, appointing a HC is not very hard and doesn't require any additional post in here. AET will not be unorganized. AET HAS its own HC. AET has its own politics. AET will do politics entirely independant from xVx. Is it that hard to conclude a seperate HC staff from these statements?

I guess so...

Regarding the question if there will be intel sharing: Withouth having any knowledge about that and as a member of either 1 of those 2 (not decided yet) I say YES we will share intel as any other napped alliance ingame does. This shouldnt be that surprising for you folks...
you are just rehashing the same answer without actually answering the main question. is there someone in charge of the entire 5th element community? if that person is xvx will the hc of aether follow their orders if given as that person is in charge of 5th element?
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 12:00   #95
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
you are just rehashing the same answer without actually answering the main question. is there someone in charge of the entire 5th element community? if that person is xvx will the hc of aether follow their orders if given as that person is in charge of 5th element?
dude i feel seriously bullshitted.. which part of "aet will have its own politics" didnt you understand?
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 12:12   #96
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

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Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
stuff
If you're just going to spout the same nonsense I had to skim over in the rest of this thread, don't reply. Seriously.

But... why will Aet have it's own politics?

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Originally Posted by SantaCruz View Post
Aether will not even involve themselves in politics for the most part. They are to be treated as laid back tag that gal roids nightly. Never war, Never going to fc/ta against you. They are players that don't have time to play as active as top alliances.
So, if they're never going to war or 'organize themselves constructively against a group or individual', why do they need politics? If you've categorically stated that Aet will never target an alliance, why would anyone give them a nap? Just to avoid random gal incs? How is that worth the offset of what will be easy roids?

Just to be clear, Aet isn't some training alliance or noob tag, it's experienced players who just don't (or wont) put the time in to playing actively - so why should they be cut any slack? Sure, there's the "intention" (apparently) to add "new" players from the game/community to Aet but this is absolutely no reason to give those guys a break

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However we in no way are working together.
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I say YES we will share intel as any other napped alliance ingame does. This shouldnt be that surprising for you folks
Surprising? No. Expected? Yes. Contrary to what Santa originally said? Absolutely.

Here's another question: why do you need the ingame nap if there wont be any cross defense? Seriously, it's a question. I'm not being rhetorical; I'm curious what the reasoning is. Surely you could just collaborate just a little and swap coords and update arbiters accordingly and avoid each other based on that? Given this, what's the main reason for the ingame alliance? A show of support?

Finally, "they will have their own HCs, you just have to take our word for it" is crap. Don't expect anyone to take you* on your* word as you've* given nobody any reason to trust in what you're* saying. (Due to inconsistency in your* 'story' rather than anything to do with anyone personally).

*The accumulative 'you' that is xvx/5th/aet
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 13:27   #97
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

So to my knowledge after being a member in xvx on and off for a few rounds ( i am not there now however so this post in no way "official"). There are individuals that manage xvx community those being Night-Sky, Marka, dries and a slightly less active tech support team ( although i think mostly its gone into retirement and marka/NS work out tech issues ).

So xvx community is largely run and organised by the individuals mentioned above one of which holds a hc position within xvx ( to the last of my knowledge) and one of which holds a hc position in aether ( to the latest of my knowledge). The one that isnt accounted for is semi retired . Therefore we have 2 members of the xvx community management potentially in the two different alliance commands.

Then we come onto the xVx alliance HCs santa and co, to my knowledge these operate the main runnings of the alliance and certain community members have a thing or two to say if potential actions are going to impact the xvx community as a whole ( a rather bad example could be santa suggests using multi accounts xvx community management says no because it gives a bad rep). This last section is pretty much based on my understanding of how it works however i have never been a part of either command or management of the community so could be mistaken.

So the statement that xvx and aether have different commands is valid. They will i believe act as independent entities and follow whatever path is deemed as correct by their given command. The problem most people seem to have in this thread is that they can not get around the difference between the xvx community and the alliance. They are two different things have different channels on the xvx servers and interact in different ways being a member of the community does not = a member of the alliance.

To summarise in my view what we have here are two tags each with a command. On that command, to make sure that the tag operates to the standards held and operated by the community, there is a community representative. Therefore it is possible to operate in the way that xvx community have stated two separate entities. The only conflict of interest will arise when one of the tags goes against the community goals/standards ( those ofc i dont know)
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 13:31   #98
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

I thank you for a coherent response at least, Sebos. Though I suspect it was a general response to the thread rather than addressing the specifics of my posts, which can be forgiven in its entirety on account of your admission that you're no longer associated with xVx.

More objective and coherent posts please, people!
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 13:36   #99
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

I would suggest the need for an in game nap is an attempt to somewhat " hard code" the fact xVx wont farm aether. At least this way there can be no accidental landings on aether planets.
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Unread 27 Oct 2011, 14:25   #100
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Re: xVx r44 tag split

Nice post Sebos.

However, I do see a potential conflict.

I can understand and agree that xVx and Aet have seperate hc. I do not argue this point.

BUT, and it is a big but, these two hc are both from the same xVx community, they will share rooms and will almost certainly share a hc room.

As such, to be passive of each others politics will be completely unavoidable in my opinion. They will have no option but to take each others views into account.

As an extreme, say Aet hc want to do one thing but xVx hc want to do the complete opposite. What will happen then? As an extreme, will they potentially go to war?
I would say no, they wouldn't as this would destroy their community and as such their political views of each will have to be taken into account.

My point is, hc of each alliance won't be able to work alone with no regards to the opposite hc
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