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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 14:52   #1
Bashar
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#planetarion ops

OK, after reading Cryptics thread, I think it is clear that there is a discussion needed - BUT NOT AN ABUSIVE/OFFENSIVE ONE!

Now, those of you who don't me, a little about myself:
I am a #planetarion senior op, and have been oped in there since sometime mid-round 6, roughly at the same time as I joined wrath, and I then went on to become full fury, and in round 8, a fury military officer (so those of you claiming that #planetarion ops don't know the game ought to rethink this). Also, I am a #p2p op, which means I deal with payment problems a lot, and this is something I have learnt a lot about, so I also know the payment side of the game as well as the playing side.

Also, I would like to say that I was actually hurt by a lot of the comments I saw on the other thread about #planetarion ops, basically suggesting that we were incompetent cretins, with some other things thrown in. It wasn't the comments that hurt, it was the fact that they came from supposed "friends", fury people, some of whom are people I have met in real-life.

Now, as to the problems with the channel. Yes, there are problems, I myself have been inactive since the end of round 8 for various reasons, but I did stop by often enough to see that there are problems, and most of the problems are the fact that not many people go in there, and those that do often seem to be there to boost their own egos, and if someone has a problem, they just get insulted. If I am around, this is something that is not tolerated.

Also, the lack of other players from throughout the community, the more experienced players, also has a negative effect on the channel. People are right when they say that ops have friends in the channel, friendships are caused when we have to speak to the same people over and over again. Also, a lot of the people moaning are people who rarely/never enter the channel, so why don't those of you drop in from time to time, and have a chat with the ops/creators/new players etc. In the end, if you think that the channel is that important to the game, then why do you shun it so much? Why don't you pay a visit from time to time, discuss PA, if enough people did, it would quickly transform.

Also though, we are open to suggestions, if you think there is a good way to improve the channel, let us know, but please, do not just post on the forums hurling a load of unfounded insults at us. I myself have done nothing against most of you, a lot of you I have even worked with in the game in various wars, and I know it is similar for other ops too, and as for my so called "friends" - you disappoint me
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 14:55   #2
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There's a reason I rarely voice/op myself there, and do most everything via P...

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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 14:59   #3
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/me kills two birds with one stone (read post)

Stone #1 : Hello, I'm a new #planetarion op. Fear. :/

Stone #2 : Feedback is always welcome, and I feel that the current mood about #planetarion is a little too negative. At the end of the day, we are human, and need to socialise in some vague way.
Come in and use the channel as you expect it to change. The users can evolve #planetarion.
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 15:01   #4
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 16:42   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrBrick
/me kills two birds with one stone (read post)

Stone #1 : Hello, I'm a new #planetarion op. Fear. :/

Stone #2 : Feedback is always welcome, and I feel that the current mood about #planetarion is a little too negative. At the end of the day, we are human, and need to socialise in some vague way.
Come in and use the channel as you expect it to change. The users can evolve #planetarion.
2 stones, no birds..
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 16:44   #6
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Re: #planetarion ops

Quote:
Originally posted by Bashar
OK, after reading Cryptics thread, I think it is clear that there is a discussion needed - BUT NOT AN ABUSIVE/OFFENSIVE ONE!
I wasn't in the last one and won't be in this one.
Quote:
Now, those of you who don't me, a little about myself:
I am a #planetarion senior op, and have been oped in there since sometime mid-round 6, roughly at the same time as I joined wrath, and I then went on to become full fury, and in round 8, a fury military officer (so those of you claiming that #planetarion ops don't know the game ought to rethink this). Also, I am a #p2p op, which means I deal with payment problems a lot, and this is something I have learnt a lot about, so I also know the payment side of the game as well as the playing side.
I only know you from arguing the toss in AD during R7 but you seem ok to me, add yourself to the few I mentioned earlier (A2 and Kloopy) who seem to be there for a reason.
Quote:
Also, I would like to say that I was actually hurt by a lot of the comments I saw on the other thread about #planetarion ops, basically suggesting that we were incompetent cretins, with some other things thrown in. It wasn't the comments that hurt, it was the fact that they came from supposed "friends", fury people, some of whom are people I have met in real-life.
Not my business, I'll keep out.
Quote:
Now, as to the problems with the channel. Yes, there are problems, I myself have been inactive since the end of round 8 for various reasons, but I did stop by often enough to see that there are problems, and most of the problems are the fact that not many people go in there, and those that do often seem to be there to boost their own egos, and if someone has a problem, they just get insulted. If I am around, this is something that is not tolerated.
The channel always seems to have a lot of people in whenever I poke my head round the door. It's worse than GD or AD for cliqueness though and anyone asking a question about PA better be ready to be hounded out by the calls of 'n00000b'. As a source of information #planetarion is worse than useless, it not only fails to provide information but actively gives people a negative impression. It needs ops who will enforce the channel rules rigidly and in a totally unbiased manner and no-one else even needs voice.
Quote:
Also, the lack of other players from throughout the community, the more experienced players, also has a negative effect on the channel. People are right when they say that ops have friends in the channel, friendships are caused when we have to speak to the same people over and over again. Also, a lot of the people moaning are people who rarely/never enter the channel, so why don't those of you drop in from time to time, and have a chat with the ops/creators/new players etc. In the end, if you think that the channel is that important to the game, then why do you shun it so much? Why don't you pay a visit from time to time, discuss PA, if enough people did, it would quickly transform.
I've called in (although I'm hardly a 'more experienced player') but really found nothing beyond the aforementioned cliquey atmosphere, those who are 'in' and those who aren't. The channel needs to be friendly to EVERYONE, not just the select few who get to laugh at everyone else without fear of penalties.
Quote:
Also though, we are open to suggestions, if you think there is a good way to improve the channel, let us know, but please, do not just post on the forums hurling a load of unfounded insults at us. I myself have done nothing against most of you, a lot of you I have even worked with in the game in various wars, and I know it is similar for other ops too, and as for my so called "friends" - you disappoint me
What I think it boils down to is that #planetarion is the public face of PA on IRC. Ops should rule with an unbending iron rod and if someone makes 'n00b' comments or anything even remotely along those lines then boot them, plain and simple. I was a new player fairly recently so I still remember the attitudes in #planetarion and it was never a fun place to be as an unknown

Looking back this is pretty much negative but to be honest that's how I feel about #planetarion, negative. There are some nice people in there but there are too many who ruin their efforts and are allowed to get away with it.

Actually, prime example! No swearing right? That's the rules so fcuk or cnut should BOTH result in a ban as they're still swearing even if spelt wrongly. I don't really care about swearing, you probably don't, the person doing it almost certainly doesn't, but the rules are there and ignored time and time again, especially for the 'in' crowd.
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 16:51   #7
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we wernt specificaly pointing at one PA op and critiseing we were talking about the exact group who make up the #planetarion ops and you know as well as i do there are soft touches to girls in PA ffs your male you should see the fluffle bints come running when ya in a postion of power you can claim your diffrent etc all ya like when it comes down to it ya either a mean ass **** who will be rude to everone who lacks the certain respect leval or a guy who gets prity mutch easy duped in to doing things by girls

Bashar you know me and mark will eat ya alive on this one you met us both in rl
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 16:53   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrBrick
Stone #2 : Feedback is always welcome, and I feel that the current mood about #planetarion is a little too negative. At the end of the day, we are human, and need to socialise in some vague way.
Come in and use the channel as you expect it to change. The users can evolve #planetarion.
Socialising turns to cronyism far to often in #planetarion.
See current UK government for more details.
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 16:56   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mong
There's a reason I rarely voice/op myself there, and do most everything via P...

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good job Mong
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it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.
Herman Goering
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 17:00   #10
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Re: #planetarion ops

Quote:
Originally posted by Bashar
and as for my so called "friends" - you disappoint me
grow up , this isn't about YOU personally so just drop the whinney "I feel betrayed drivel " because someone has issues with opers and management of #planetarion.

I simply raised a point regarding certain regulars of that channel - and their portraying of themselves as 'special'.
They did it to me and I can kick back hard - which everyone has noticed.
But what happens when its a new player - someone without the experience or postion to comment back.
I novice player would be scared off by that sort of attitude and setup - not something a struggling community can afford.

If you have issues with critism of how things are run in there - I suggguest less whinging on the boards about how unfair people are .... and a little more time actually being in the channel , instead of " idleing since rnd 8 "
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 17:13   #11
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Re: Re: #planetarion ops

Quote:
Originally posted by Cryptic
grow up , this isn't about YOU personally so just drop the whinney "I feel betrayed drivel " because someone has issues with opers and management of #planetarion.

I simply raised a point regarding certain regulars of that channel - and their portraying of themselves as 'special'.
They did it to me and I can kick back hard - which everyone has noticed.
But what happens when its a new player - someone without the experience or postion to comment back.
I novice player would be scared off by that sort of attitude and setup - not something a struggling community can afford.

If you have issues with critism of how things are run in there - I suggguest less whinging on the boards about how unfair people are .... and a little more time actually being in the channel , instead of " idleing since rnd 8 "
again i AGREE with ya!!
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 17:17   #12
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Bashar stop this guilt trip ****e.

The other thread was directed at a certain group of ops. In no way was said ALL ops are unskilled ****eheads.

But i tend to agree that the use of #planetarion is more then irritating.

First of all this channel is the customer service area, as everyone who has actually a question will first head there.
So many times seen bull**** by ops for ppl asking questions.
How can a new player (who might not read the portal or whos irc aint displaying the channeltopics) get help if not pm an op ?
If the answer to this is rude, be sure this customer comes never back. Something which came along the arrogant PA attitude for a while. When pa had 150k sheep to live from. But i think with dropping numbers maybe also the behaviour of ppl who seem to be official should be adjusted.
and as stated by others, i dont see how ppl who admit to be cheaters or who havent actually a slight clue about the game can become channelop. They have no central part in this community, this is like comparing the busdriver with the topstriker of a football team. Might work both for the same club but their values are different i would say, or ?
So indeed, maybe some old Legion Hc or other ppl who really have and had a clue about this game should get more offical reputation and maybe some representing function. Because those ppl tend to know more ppl in and also more ABOUT the community, than some random op suckup.
The whole voice system seems hillarious to me aswell. as the channel is hardly moderated, only if the crowd demands answers (PA down) when no info is handed out etc.
Those are also poor attempts
But as others stated, alot in pa developed by ppl who have no clue but who are close pals and got a say. (compare the outcome of most betas -> ask Tacitus)
You can argue this asmuch as you want but in pointing towards problems there should be no comradery like you mentioned yourself bashar ("It hurts to see my friends have a go on ops" etc). Rather irritating as this is just the finest example of what cryptic was pointing at.
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 17:17   #13
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Re: Re: #planetarion ops

Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle28uk
Actually, prime example! No swearing right? That's the rules so fcuk or cnut should BOTH result in a ban as they're still swearing even if spelt wrongly. I don't really care about swearing, you probably don't, the person doing it almost certainly doesn't, but the rules are there and ignored time and time again, especially for the 'in' crowd.
Clearly you haven't met MrPinky (the channel bot)
It always goes through the same stages of warn/kick/ban.
The warning it does in private, which is why you don't see it happen. It does have a sensitivity setting though so if someone is deliberatley in there with the purpose of breaking every rule in the book it can jump a stage or two.
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 17:33   #14
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Re: Re: Re: #planetarion ops

Quote:
Originally posted by Razorback
First of all this channel is the customer service area, as everyone who has actually a question will first head there.
So many times seen bull**** by ops for ppl asking questions.
How can a new player (who might not read the portal or whos irc aint displaying the channeltopics) get help if not pm an op ?
If the answer to this is rude, be sure this customer comes never back. Something which came along the arrogant PA attitude for a while. When pa had 150k sheep to live from. But i think with dropping numbers maybe also the behaviour of ppl who seem to be official should be adjusted.
Anyone who comes into the channel is more than welcome to PM one of the ops on duty if they have a questions which they'd rather not ask in channel. Anyone who is opped (with the exception of the bots Mr & Mrs Pinky) should answer or be able to direct the person towards someone who can help which can mean asking someone to join #cservice or #p2p instead.
If an op isn't active, or won't be back reasonably soon after leaving then they won't be opped (and often sit on voice status)

The channel does have a topic for a reason and we admit that occasionally servers delink causing it not to be displayed properly - but it is always there and 99% of the time answers the common questions.

For example - the current topic is:
[16:24] *** Topic is 'Latest announcement: http://home.planetarion.com/news.php?id=87 || PORTAL & FORUMS : www.planetarion.com | R9: P2P? Yes; Priv gals? Yes; Clusters? Yes; Parallels? Yes; Details? NO | Creators Hour log at http://home.planetarion.com/news.php?id=88'
[16:24] *** Set by harsheh on Sun Jan 12 20:57:42

Which gives the answers to the most common questions we have been getting recently.


Quote:
The whole voice system seems hillarious to me aswell. as the channel is hardly moderated, only if the crowd demands answers (PA down) when no info is handed out etc
#planetarion is only ever set +m when either an announcement is being made which is best done with no random chatter in between or when something like, as you said, Planetarion goes down. You might have noticed that at these times the channel tends to get very busy very quickly with people either moaning, spamming, flooding, asking for non-existant information or demanding refunds. In order to maintain some level of order we use +m until things calm down a bit.
In these situations again the topic is the most up to date source of information we have. We don't indulge in hiding information - when we have it we give it out. I appreciate that it is frustrating to be sitting in a +m channel waiting for something to happen but sometimes it's better than the alternative.

If we're not giving out a piece of information when PA goes down it's simply because we don't have the answers that are being asked for. We can't and won't invent answers.
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 18:41   #15
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 18:44   #16
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Re: Re: Re: Re: #planetarion ops

Quote:
Originally posted by A2
good long reply
Yes i agree there and as i stated in my post, i guess we both see the same channel. Tho i and others see also abuse and suckup ops there, no offence, alot of ppl do their job better then anyone could want to.

Like i told bashar this was merely a contribution to the ongoing discussion then to post drivel about a certain op or to get a go at the full gang. But you dont have to be a fortune teller to know that there are black sheep in the crowd, right ?
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 19:37   #17
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 19:38   #18
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Re: Re: Re: #planetarion ops

Quote:
Originally posted by A2
Clearly you haven't met MrPinky (the channel bot)
It always goes through the same stages of warn/kick/ban.
The warning it does in private, which is why you don't see it happen. It does have a sensitivity setting though so if someone is deliberatley in there with the purpose of breaking every rule in the book it can jump a stage or two.
I've met him Unfortunately he doesn't understand typos, fcuk is exactly the same as it's correctly spelt counterpart (logically I know that makes me guilty of censor evading on the forums with this post but I'm making a point) yet is ignored most of the time, certainly when coming from one of the 'in' crowd.
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 22:52   #19
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I read your thread, (Basher).

TBH I visit #Planetarion as seldom as possible, it is mostly filled with idiots/n00bs/lamers hurling abuse and generally making a nuisance of themselves. (untill they get banned that is)

I used to visit it on a fairly regular basis, in the hope that relevant information would be available when Servers went down, or there were problems from time to time, but the people in there were mostly in the dark as much as the players, so that made it pointless.

The Mods, I dont have a problem with as I never stayed long enough to bother with them, and when I needed one, they mostly ignored any requests for help or information.

I dont like the Bots, they are too strict, and too much in control of the channel. Remove them, or reduce the power they have and put it into the hands of the moderators, who are able to judge who is and isnt right/wrong.

The game needs a friendly social channel, unfortunately #Planetarion is not it.
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 23:10   #20
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Thanks for the input folks, I will try my hardest to see that the channel is improved - but I think it needs saying that I have NEVER seen an op call anyone a noob in the channel (except for their friends as a joke) - we take any questions seriously, and never laugh at anyone for a question, also, if I see ANYONE laughing at someone for a valid question, I don't care who they are, I deal with them.

I think a lot of the problems people are coming up with are mis-conceptions, but there are some valid points in there.
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Unread 13 Jan 2003, 23:28   #21
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Re: Re: Re: Re: #planetarion ops

Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle28uk
I've met him Unfortunately he doesn't understand typos, fcuk is exactly the same as it's correctly spelt counterpart (logically I know that makes me guilty of censor evading on the forums with this post but I'm making a point) yet is ignored most of the time, certainly when coming from one of the 'in' crowd.
Actually, we unbanned "fcuk" because when we originally banned for it, we got all the "wtf y cant i say fcuk its a brand fs!" comments along with the "you're all nazi ops" comments...
So we unbanned it. Which clearly doesn't work either...

I accept that there are problems with #planetarion and as some ops have pointed out, I am open to suggestions of how we can improve the channel (contacting me on IRC is probably the best idea until our @home.pa.com emails work again). I'm not sure what sparked this entire debate off but from what i've seen of it, the main problems you've listed are:
  • Op Favouritism
  • Unhelpful (and even abusive) ops
  • The general channel atmosphere being 'wrong'
Would this list be correct, and is there anything else you want working on particularly?

Also, i feel i must stress that i have no major problems with individuals in the ops team, but if some evidence shed light on cases of abuse, rest assured i will investigate anyone. Also, i am wanting to introduce a cut down on those who use their op/voice in the channel as purely a status symbol and not for any good channel cause. I will to this extent bring forward my planned access shuffle in the channel to sometime this week. This may cause a bit of a large stir up and some controversy, but i will try to make the best use of this opportunity to benefit the channel.

I agree with what Bashar has said above, and I maintain that i want the channel to be as good and accessible to everyone as it can be. I will do my best to make sure this is possible, but i can't do it alone, and i can only do it to a certain extent with the op team. I need people's co-operation, and have been slightly disappointed to see a lot of people on the forums once again jump on the "let's bash #planetarion" bandwagon as it draws past, especially from a lot of people i have not seen in the channel for quite literally years. Constructive criticism and suggestions are what i'm open to and what are useful to me and the channel, which is why this thread has been a lot more useful than the other 'flamefest'.

I will leave you with a hope that i will get some constructive criticism and suggestions in, and improve #Planetarion so everyone feels that it is more approachable as a channel. I will personally try my best to make sure this happens, but i to an extent only see what goes on from an ops point of view.

Thanks,
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Unread 14 Jan 2003, 00:34   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by mushroom.



Op Favouritism

Unhelpful (and even abusive) ops

The general channel atmosphere being 'wrong'
I have no experience of the first
Never found the ops to be abusive, they just tend to ignore people.
"Atmostphere" Not an easy thing to improve upon, but a generally more social attitude is needed, and NOT just the ops.


May I suggest that the Mods join the channel as a visitor using an alternate "nick" and experience the channel the same way that ordinairy users do?

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Unread 14 Jan 2003, 02:39   #23
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I remember when you could put a double bold tag in the middle of a swearword, claim the filters were broken and watch everyone ban themselves. \o/

Anyway...

I gave up on #pa rd4'ish* - its simply not possible to moderate the channel as a general chat - voice it, put a link to home.pa.com and let ppl pm the ops when they have a question.

* About the time the 'Do not PM the ops' rule was introduced.
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Unread 14 Jan 2003, 03:15   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Judge
May I suggest that the Mods join the channel as a visitor using an alternate "nick" and experience the channel the same way that ordinairy users do?
Who says that we don't anyway?

Quote:
About the time the 'Do not PM the ops' rule was introduced.
This rule doesn't apply anymore and hasn't for quite a while. Anyone is welcome to PM me when I'm not tagged as Away, AFK, DND or similar (in which case I won't be opped) and this should also apply to the other channel ops. As I mentioned earlier there are times when we need to +m the channel and during those times we prefer to keep unnecessary PM's to a minimum simply because we tend to get rather a lot of the things all asking one of th same basic questions
a) what's happened
b) when's it going to be sorted
c) take the channel off +m you git! (paraphrased to please the censor)

And like I said earlier we do not withhold information in those situations. As soon as we know something for definate we put it in the topic and let everyone know what's going on. We do our utmost to make sure no false information gets disseminated in these situations even if it means we have to wait longer than we'd like to confirm or deny the various rumours.
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Unread 14 Jan 2003, 10:39   #25
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To be honest I think this is mostly bollocks!

#planetarion goes from being totally dead, to having loads of random, un-connected people gibbering at once.

The comments about it being cliquey and insular are very wide of the mark. Hell, nobody laughs at my jokes through fear. Hell nobody laughs at them at all... but that will change COS I'M GONNA GLINE YOU!!! Er...

Anyway. I'm not impressed. Most of the critisicm here is typically unconstructive and indicative of the nihilistically negative attitude that prevails amongst the moaning minority.

</rant>

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Unread 14 Jan 2003, 14:17   #26
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I had a problem with #Planetarion =)

Well no one knows me anymore but i played from R2 - R6, recently i have wanted to return to PA since i have more freetime and am able to pay!, so i went onto IRC and found my name had been unregistered and a guy who had OPs in #Planetarion had stolen my nick! lol the name was Genesis which i had for like 3 rounds in a row and its the name i use on other irc networks as well. Anyway i realised my nick MAY have been deleted since i rarely went onto PA irc after i quit but then i started being K-lined for just taking the Nick Gen =( so i went away from PA for another couple of months and im back again and it appears Genesis has quit ! wahey !
/nick Genesis
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Unread 14 Jan 2003, 14:43   #27
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Genesis was an IRC op who used Gen as an alternate nick, as well as being a #planetarion op, and he has been gone for a round or two now I think.
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Unread 14 Jan 2003, 14:51   #28
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Unread 14 Jan 2003, 19:47   #29
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I'm amazed i haven't been named as a *evul* op.

Richie
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Unread 15 Jan 2003, 09:45   #30
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I am so happy that no one realises i am an op and therefore i dont get lumped together with the rest of you evil people
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Unread 15 Jan 2003, 11:28   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Richie987
I'm amazed i haven't been named as a *evul* op.

Richie
heh, i'm another... i've been mentioned once in the whole 'discussion' if thats what it can be called..

*runs off and hides in the coding*
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