Happiness

[jerome]

for the past few months(possibly a year or so) i've very lazily been thinking about the realms of self-acceptance. how can anyone be someone they themselves dislike? that's my very simplistic line to discuss on this matter. back a couple of years ago when i too was just a 16 year old kid who went through a somewhat depressing time, i tended to blame myself for everything. looking back now, i see nothing wrong with that, except that i never TRULY took responsibility and actually DID something. i was (shock horror obvious ****er) quite happy to be in that emo situation (there's obviously a lot more emo things that happened then but all irrelevant)

similarly, i notice a lot of people (on da internet, as well as amongst real life acquaintances) who claim to be 'depressed' or 'unhappy with themselves for what they are', still seem to be 'content' in their status or at least seem to take absolutely no effort at all to change. in my case, it was simply a case of the maturity growth between 16-18 that supported my 'growth as an individual' most of all, not much changed really except that i grew to accept a lot of things more easily.

examples with others, there's a girl i am reasonably good friends with in real life. her boyfriend for 2 years broke up with her back in may or so after she cheated on him. now note that throughout their relationship she'd always been flirting with at least 3 guys or so, so it was no real surprise at the end outcome, though it took 2 years. after that ended, she went around cockteasing tons more guys (through myspace, lol etc) and slept around a few times. periodically she'd also make a blog(**** you guys this is serious business) or get into a mood for a while and talk about how she wish she could roll back the clock and 'get back to her old self', and moan about how depressing her situation is. then the next day or so i'd see her flirting with a new guy or whatnot. i'm not criticising her for it, but is it really not obvious that's she's always been 'that person', since she'd of course flirted with x many guys when she was with her ex etc. as harsh as it sounds it always seemed like she just liked attention to me.

on a more 'home' note to around here, i see horn as one of these situations really, but that's based purely of course on what he feeds us information wise so it may not be much to go on. with all this unnecessary text in mind, are you happy or content with yourself? if so, do you remember a time when you weren't? if you look back now, do you feel that dislike of yourself justified?

on a completely unrelated note, am i the only person who thinks the films happiness and magnolia are far too similar in scope to each other

[Deffeh]

For girls its an attention thing and a way to further themselves socially, because

a/ they dont live in the real world
and
b/ every guy is a sucker for the damsel in distress play the 'knight in shining armor' thing

Other than that,

Its much easier to be in a comfortable rut than it is to attempt to change or better yourself which can be far more distressing and dangerous.

For me personally i can tell you that while i probably know making no attempt to enter into any relationship again is a silly idea, and limits my potential happiness, its much easier than putting yourself back on the line to be hurt again, so im happy - no, content - with my internet and my own company.

Change is difficult, and often futile. Im certainly not happy, but im happier than i am when i have external forces on me to 'improve'.

[jerome]

yeah sorry i meant more 'content' than happy really, and i'm bizarrely intrigued with the concept of being anything BUT content with your own self as a person. sure there are instances that you wish you did x or didn't do y instead either but in the end we must have justified it to ourselves for our choices so is it only humanity's nature to forever want more that makes people 'not' be content? if so, what about those of us who do feel content? what's up with that? sure there's always the greener other side, the 'potential happiness' - is it just lazy to settle and accept for less or is it maturity to not let yourself get depressed about not being blessed, in every way possible?

obviously my posts have excluded mental illnesses etc by the way (so far at least)

[Deffeh]

theres not really one single point where after its past you can assign every seemingly irrational decision one person makes as down to 'mental illness'. Mental illness is an extreme, not a different outlook.


I think you are probably just confusing yourself with terms and things, but im bored and could wax lyrical on this for hours, so here goes;

If you feel as a person you are deficient enough in some way that it affects how you enjoy and live your life, and you dont feel as if its in your power to change either the cause or the effects of the deficiency, then you are pretty likely not to be content about who you are.

Thats just a vague definition, not concrete by any means.

Again, for me personally theres plenty of things i wish i could change.

I dont overlook small faults in people very well
I dont have a sense of 'family', which given how heavily its importance is reinforced in society (and in your family itself), makes me feel fairly heathenous. I regularly have vivid dreams where one of my parents dies, and i am completely unaffected.
I tend to collect rather conspiratorial evidence that someone is out to get me, which leads to arguments, quite often with people who didnt deserve it.
I push people away.
Any time i try and think about being alive for longer than the next 3 months i experience 'white noise' because im so focused on blocking things out and getting on with the here and now.

So pretty much, those are just a few examples. There are plenty of reasons everyone can find about themselves to dislike, and build up a portfolio of errors, herasy, immorality, deficiency, etc etc etc. Its merely about whether you care or not, or whether you are willing to accept your own faults and go with it.

I would suggest the definitive factor would be whether you feel your own shortcomings interfere with your dailly life

[Hebdomad]

Is this the new Happyness film (why is it misspelt!!) any good then? I was either going to see that or The Last King of Scotland.

My happiness is dependent on far too many things (social environment, health, time spent doing what, etc) but I remember when I was in my teens and unhappy with the depressed things I said and did. Eventually I realised what I was doing - before I was more or less oblivious - and slowly started changing to be whom I wanted to be. In fact, I'm always realising and changing. I'm not sure if you ever stop.

[Tomkat]

I'm pretty happy with myself. I think I'm a nice person and a pretty all-round decent human being. That might be arrogant to say, but I'm well aware I have plenty of faults (lol cancer lol).

Even throughout my treatment and news that I had a life-threatening disease I remained pretty chirpy and happy about things. Of course this was helped by a very supportive family and friends, but I'm sure if I didn't like myself much it would have been a much more difficult time.

How can you expect other people to like you if you don't yourself like you?

On a slight tangent, I think a lot of happiness is being able to self-criticise and then from that, self-improve. I noticed things I don't like about myself when thinking of New Year Resolutions (such as being a bit offensive to people when drunk, or spending too much time on the net and not enough time doing tasks that need doing) and I've tried to improve that.

[Tomkat]

Oh by the way when I saw jerome had made a thread called "Happiness" I immediately rolled my eyes and expected some emo shit. This thread is actually quite good though (or it hopefully will be - it's still in its infancy!).

[jerome]

Originally Posted by Deffeh

theres not really one single point where after its past you can assign every seemingly irrational decision one person makes as down to 'mental illness'. Mental illness is an extreme, not a different outlook.


I think you are probably just confusing yourself with terms and things, but im bored and could wax lyrical on this for hours, so here goes;

If you feel as a person you are deficient enough in some way that it affects how you enjoy and live your life, and you dont feel as if its in your power to change either the cause or the effects of the deficiency, then you are pretty likely not to be content about who you are.

Thats just a vague definition, not concrete by any means.

Again, for me personally theres plenty of things i wish i could change.

I dont overlook small faults in people very well
I dont have a sense of 'family', which given how heavily its importance is reinforced in society (and in your family itself), makes me feel fairly heathenous. I regularly have vivid dreams where one of my parents dies, and i am completely unaffected.
I tend to collect rather conspiratorial evidence that someone is out to get me, which leads to arguments, quite often with people who didnt deserve it.
I push people away.
Any time i try and think about being alive for longer than the next 3 months i experience 'white noise' because im so focused on blocking things out and getting on with the here and now.

So pretty much, those are just a few examples. There are plenty of reasons everyone can find about themselves to dislike, and build up a portfolio of errors, herasy, immorality, deficiency, etc etc etc. Its merely about whether you care or not, or whether you are willing to accept your own faults and go with it.

I would suggest the definitive factor would be whether you feel your own shortcomings interfere with your dailly life

i didn't mean mental illness for any specific thing, i meant it as an extremity as well yeah.

actually i agree with most of the rest you say as well, but i mean, you obviously 'understand' and 'accept' what you dislike about yourself - i'm talking about cases where people do nothing but moan about situations, i can't understand that. this may sound somewhat hypocritical as i moan about stuff like work all the time which is no big issue but i'm just too lazy. that's what i relate a lot of people dissatisfied with themselves to. people who just want the attention. this carves a worse picture for them than i mean, obviously the sources for them being like that can be from a large family or a deprived childhood or so on etc (the friend i mentioned earlier is one of 3 sisters and the middle one, so usually not the first in line for things, for example.) the most intriguing aspect of it all to me is this part that you yourself stated

Its merely about whether you care or not, or whether you are willing to accept your own faults and go with it.

Hebdomad: the movie happiness is http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0147612/as opposed to the will smith 'pursuit of..'

[jerome]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

I'm pretty happy with myself. I think I'm a nice person and a pretty all-round decent human being. That might be arrogant to say, but I'm well aware I have plenty of faults (lol cancer lol).

Even throughout my treatment and news that I had a life-threatening disease I remained pretty chirpy and happy about things. Of course this was helped by a very supportive family and friends, but I'm sure if I didn't like myself much it would have been a much more difficult time.

How can you expect other people to like you if you don't yourself like you?

On a slight tangent, I think a lot of happiness is being able to self-criticise and then from that, self-improve. I noticed things I don't like about myself when thinking of New Year Resolutions (such as being a bit offensive to people when drunk, or spending too much time on the net and not enough time doing tasks that need doing) and I've tried to improve that.

yeah you were someone who i was thinking of actually, apart from t&f , jakiri and vampy for example (and myself of course), who came up instantly from around this part of the internet that seemed 'comfortable with themselves'. that's 4 'types' of people who are in altogether different 'scenes'(forgive this term) but are still similar in their mental strengths, and i know personally of several people who are each of those types but without the self-confidence. and they seem to delve further into a stereotype to justify to themselves of their nature, rather than being comfortable. am i still making sense? i don't remember what i meant my point to be here so i'm going to stop

[Deffeh]

Im not sure theres much benefit in 'understanding' and 'accepting' your own flaws rather than merely complaining about the causes of them. You dont get extra points for intelligence or self-awareness - quite a lot of the time if you focus merely on your perceived injustices (rather than your weaknesses) you at least have a united front 'within' yourself, between the id ego and superego.

[jerome]

i'm not sure what you're saying there, but surely the benefit is that you ARE able to focus merely on the whatever for a positive turn with the oversight of self-awareness as opposed to being cocooned in doubt

edit: i just got what you meant, and by accepting i meant more as a stepping stone for possible progress if at all needed than literally settling for less

[voodoo]

it's called "the teenage years". everybody goes through it, right after puberty
i guess it's when you actually form yourself as a person, when you decide upon certain rules that best define your character, which you are to follow for the rest of your life. by this i don't mean music you listen to, but what you would do in certain situations (cheat/not cheat on an exam, steal/not steal, easy-but wrong/or hard-but fair way in a certain situation).
if you get past that and are content with the result, of what you have become and what you turned into then all is good i guess. the smarter the person, the harder the way. more brains mean more questions, more issues, and most of the times depression. it's only with self-acceptance that it all becomes bearable.

[Dante Hicks]

I'm definitely content with my lot. Partly this is that I simply have quite a nice life (imho, of course) but also because I think I've got quite a positive attitude about things. As such, when things don't go my way I rarely let it bother me.

Of course, this doesn't mean you always have to be self-satisfied ; as TK says you can identify things that could be improved upon to map out future developments. Additionally, if things go wrong (in whatever context) taking responsibility is a much better approach than simply looking for others to blame. If there are things that are sub-optimal about my life then this is no-one's fault but my own. Realising this makes life a lot easier - if nothing else you feel a lot more empowered about the future.

I don't spend a lot of time ingratiating myself with others, but at the same time, I don't spend much time being negative either. As such, I'm relatively harmless to have around should I choose to have company. I'm pretty emotionally self-sufficient though.

[jerome]

i'm not convinced it's just a "problem" of the teenage years, voodoo. though that just reminded me of the only real anxiety issue i personally have for the future: boredom!

Originally Posted by Dante

I'm definitely content with my lot. Partly this is that I simply have quite a nice life (imho, of course) but also because I think I've got quite a positive attitude about things. As such, when things don't go my way I rarely let it bother me.

Of course, this doesn't mean you always have to be self-satisfied ; as TK says you can identify things that could be improved upon to map out future developments. Additionally, if things go wrong (in whatever context) taking responsibility is a much better approach than simply looking for others to blame. If there are things that are sub-optimal about my life then this is no-one's fault but my own. Realising this makes life a lot easier - if nothing else you feel a lot more empowered about the future.

I don't spend a lot of time ingratiating myself with others, but at the same time, I don't spend much time being negative either. As such, I'm relatively harmless to have around should I choose to have company. I'm pretty emotionally self-sufficient though.

how do you see yourself though? as an extreme case or 'just another guy'. i regularly (well, check once a while i mean) read your blog and you seem hilariously apathetic*, to the levels that i can only think of a few others than myself can relate to

*i don't really mean apathetic in the sense that you don't care about anything though, but more that you realise that it doesn't matter, as opposed to a full frontal attitude to not care regardless.

also, how were you as a teenager?

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by jerome

yeah sorry i meant more 'content' than happy really, and i'm bizarrely intrigued with the concept of being anything BUT content with your own self as a person. sure there are instances that you wish you did x or didn't do y instead either but in the end we must have justified it to ourselves for our choices so is it only humanity's nature to forever want more that makes people 'not' be content? if so, what about those of us who do feel content? what's up with that? sure there's always the greener other side, the 'potential happiness' - is it just lazy to settle and accept for less or is it maturity to not let yourself get depressed about not being blessed, in every way possible?

obviously my posts have excluded mental illnesses etc by the way (so far at least)

Being content is being indifferent and could be something that's bad, or something that's really good. A lot of indifferent people tend to settle (or settle for less, whatever the case may be) with what they have thus that saying "your life right now is the best you could do.." or the infamous "the girl you're with right now is the best you can afford.."

Being happy is an emotion and state that you allowed yourself to be in because of one of 2 things. 1: You are content and are willing to settle (or settle for less) or, 2: You have realized your dreams and your ultimate goals in life.

As for me, I love my life and I have already realized some of my goals, the rest are still on a pipelined plan that will be realized in a few years. I've loved and got my heart broken and I learned, I've hated and moved on and I've planned and failed, but I've also succeeded.

Live and let live. This is the best way to experience the most, specially being a teenager. It is better to put your guard down now because you are innocent than putting your guard down later when the innocence is gone, and then realize that your youth was taken from you.

[All Systems Go]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

Live and let live. This is the best way to experience the most, specially being a teenager. It is better to put your guard down now because you are innocent than putting your guard down later when the innocence is gone, and then realize that your youth was taken from you.

Is that what you tell the kids when you're trying to sign them up for the Navy?

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by jerome

how do you see yourself though?

It's a mixed-bag. There are a lot of things I am utterly shit at, and maybe when I was a kid I was a bit disappointed that I wasn't going to be Batman, but by and large you learn to live with it. There are some things I am good at, and I am told at least ten times a day at work that I am some sort of unparalleled genius - (this has nothing to do with being any good, it's just the low standards that are endemic in quasi-local government, but it's good for the ego nonetheless).

Anyway, I always thought I was fairly normal/boring - or at least in line with most of my friends, but upon speaking to a wider selection of people I've come to realise that being so apathetic (as you term it) isn't necessarily 100% normal. At the same time, I think that quite a lot of people have feelings like Deffeh describes - imagining a parent dying and not caring. But is that really so bad? Death is parth of life blah, blah and it'd be annoying if certain people died but I'd get over it fairly quickly I think.

Similarly, I can relate to horn's social awkwardness quite a bit, I felt a bit like that until I was about 20 (or later), but you learn to live with it. Once you've come to the conclusion you're the ugliest person in the world I don't really understand how you could dwell on the subject for that long. Surely the natural response is "Oh well, let's play Street Figther 2 some more."

Anyway, my self-image only improved much later when I realised a drunk chick will get off with almost anything.

also, how were you as a teenager?

I was a pretty stereotypical quiet geeky kid I guess. As an only child I learnt to amuse myself most of the time. I never suffered from depression or anything like that, and I'm not sure anyone in my family has either (I seriously thought depression was a middle class phenemenon until I was 18).

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

Is that what you tell the kids when you're trying to sign them up for the Navy?

No, not really.

[jerome]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

or the infamous "the girl you're with right now is the best you can afford.."

do you actually believe in these sort of things that you post far too regularly?

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Deffeh

Im not sure theres much benefit in 'understanding' and 'accepting' your own flaws rather than merely complaining about the causes of them. You dont get extra points for intelligence or self-awareness - quite a lot of the time if you focus merely on your perceived injustices (rather than your weaknesses) you at least have a united front 'within' yourself, between the id ego and superego.

Yeah but identifying flaws and parts of your personality/attitude that you'd like to improve is obviously the first step to improving them.

[Yahwe]

When I ruled this board with a tyranical iron fist the mentally ill, the depressives and the hormonal teenagers where all too busy crying over something i'd said to them to post.

BUT OHHHHHHH NO!

You people know better ... "yahwe be nice" you said ... "yahwe stop neg repping" you said ... "the boards will be perfect!" you claimed ...

And what do we have now? Thread after thread of spastics indulging their nurotic egos and pimply youths typing about their 'feelings'.


****ING FANTASTIC

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by jerome

do you actually believe in these sort of things that you post far too regularly?

Yes. It makes perfect sense.

[Deffeh]

10/10

[dda]

Some people are lucky enough to be born happy.

I am among these people. If enough shit were heaped upon my head over a long enough period of time I could probably learn to be unhappy but this hasn't happened to me so far.

The alternative theory is that ignorance is bliss and this explains my good state of mind.

[Baron Morte]

Something i learnt ages ago is that you are who you are. I used be here on the forums moaning about not having girls and my complete ineptitude towards females until i let it go and started accepting that as a part of me.

As the saying goes, the tiger never loses its stripes. Despite me having a steady relationship with a very nice girl, I still cannot 'connect' with other women, because i still view them as infantiles, frugal and extrovert ( as in the Jungian theory)

Prejudice? trauma? ignorance? pretty much all of that. Its all inside my brain, and my studies in psychology have insofar shown no hope of that ever changing.


So thats my two cents on being happy with yourself. Its not a matter of choice. Its a matter of survival.

[All Systems Go]

Ever considered electric-shock therapy?

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by horn

i hope your "studies into psychology" didn't begin and end with just jung :/

He also rang a bell while giving a girl food for 2 weeks, and then discovered that he just needed to ring the bell and the girl slobbered all over the place with her saliva!

What that says about Brazilian females I don't know

[JonnyBGood]

Just Jung. Now there's a sitcom waiting to happen.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Just Jung. Now there's a sitcom waiting to happen.

I'll scream and scream and scream until I'm sick!

[Baron Morte]

Originally Posted by horn

i hope your "studies into psychology" didn't begin and end with just jung :/

considering that my "studies into psychology" consists of reading the back cover of such books, the object of my studies should be of lesser concern

[jt25man]

I saw the thread 'Happiness' and for some reason thought 'is a warm gun'. Then I found the song on my computer and listened to it.

[All Systems Go]

Originally Posted by jt25man

I saw the thread 'Happiness' and for some reason thought 'is a warm gun'. Then I found the song on my computer and listened to it.

Could you link us to a pic of yourself so we can recognise you when you appear on the news?

[jt25man]

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

Could you link us to a pic of yourself so we can recognise you when you appear on the news?

What, Americans aren't allowed to be Beatle fans?

[All Systems Go]

Originally Posted by jt25man

What, Americans aren't allowed to be Beatle fans?

No.

Plus I feel you have all the ingrediants of a suicidal mass murder.

[jt25man]

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

No.

Plus I feel you have all the ingrediants of a suicidal mass murder.

That's not true, I don't have any weapons.

I'd never be a suicidal mass murderer, I don't believe in suicide, and have vowed never to do anything that would result in me being imprisoned.

[All Systems Go]

Originally Posted by jt25man

That's not true, I don't have any weapons.

I'd never be a suicidal mass murderer, I don't believe in suicide, and have vowed never to do anything that would result in me being imprisoned.

You must be a right laugh.

[jt25man]

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

You must be a right laugh.

Well I am a lefty, so I'm always in my right mind.

[Sharur]

Just saw this thread so I'll respond to the original post, apologies if that has become offtopic.
I'm quite content with myself, but my environment doesn't seem to be, which seems to have as a result that I wonder "why aren't they? is there something wrong with me?".
This doesn't mean I'm not content anymore though, but it does mean I'm insecure about myself, add to that some of my best friends say I'm too overconfident, and I hear on a regular basis from my parents/aquiantances(sp?)/superiors that I'm arrogant, it seriously contradicts how I feel. I'm not at all confident, and my arrogance is obviously nothing but a self defence mechanism, if I wouldn't pretend to be so arrogant people would find me insecure, and insecure people are always abused in this society. Not to mention no girl wants a relationship with an insecure person, nor with an arrogant one for that matter so I'm screwed (or rather, not screwed) either way.
Basically, yes I'm content with myself, but not with how people treat me, and am sure that this is because of me but I'm not sure how I can change this.

[Baron Morte]

women dig on arrogant men. It is true! we were once in bar me and my mates, and this guy was hitting on the girl by being very nice, talking to her and showing real interest - said guy has no real skills on picking women, so he though that by being a good person he would conquer her heart, just like in the fairy tales - and i was just being rude and obnoxious picking on every little detail and being an general arrogant prick.

She left the table. Only to grab me by the balls half an hour later when i was going to the toilet



true story



many women can´t distinguish between arrogance and self confidence.



anyway


its a thin line