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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 09:59   #1
ComradeRob
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Xp

XP is broken (again). My planet is an example, but there are plenty of others too. Just to give an idea of how broken XP is, up until yesterday my fleet consisted of ~210 harpies, 130 syrens, 75 BS and around 280 DE, and had been exactly like that for at least a couple of weeks. Taking about 5 minutes per day to pick targets, building the occasional construction throughout the day was enough to put me in the top 50, and some good attacks put me in the top 20.

I'd like to think that this was all a matter of skill, and that six years of playing PA have made me so good at the game that I can almost effortlessly achieve top ranks. But this isn't really true; I may have made some good judgement calls during (and before) the round - correctly identifying fake defence, figuring out which race to go, choosing a construction/research strategy - but these were often trivial decisions. The only advantage of my 'playing style' is that the effort required is so low that I will never get tired of launching three attacks a day - a significant advantage when competing against people who will likely be exhausted (even in a short round) by the demands of arranging and sending defence.

So, XP is broken. It disproportionately rewards people for having a low value.

I have no doubt that there is going to be a big debate about this when the round ends. However, I want to make one point very, very clear: XP does fantastically good things for keeping the game interesting. Just a few days from the end of the round, there is still a race for the #1 planet, and #1 alliance. In both contests, the possibility of large XP gains is all that is keeping the game competitive - without XP, the result would be a foregone conclusion (XP presents the only real opportunity for anyone to catch Caj, and XP is what has kept Conspiracy ahead of VGN despite VGN's roid lead). So, if XP is to be fixed, I can only hope that the fix does not remove the very considerable incentives to activity that XP offers.

XP is the only thing ensuring that people keep attacking (and thus playing actively) right up until the last tick (today's attack on the #1 galaxy is a good case in point). Without XP, or something very similar to XP, activity would probably fall considerably before the end of the round, and with the current universe size that could be disastrous.

I've made suggestions about possible solutions in the past, as have others. Any new suggestions should, of course, go on the suggestions forum. This thread might provide a useful place to air more general thoughts about the XP system though.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 10:03   #2
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Re: Xp

you're a selfish **** that's KILLING THE GAME, rob. killing the game, i tells ya.


on topic: i think xp should directly encourage war, deaths and all that, somehow.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 10:18   #3
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Re: Xp

I have to agree from the other end of the stick as a 1.6 mil value Terran. I have no problem with there being a reward for smaller planets attacking bigger ones, but it is simply ridicilous to see planets around or under half my value crash 190k+ value for 100 roids and still almost break even or gain in score (which happened to me yesterday). In essense i don't really mind as i'm used to being unable to keep roids by now and they got me some nice salvage, but i do believe that value play should mean you are protected from smaller planets simply because your fleet is to big.

The main problem with a XP system like the current one is being nicely shown this round. Less and less ppl bother with building proper defence fleets, making it pointless to try and get some organization going. And despite active attacking being needed to keep the game alive, i think it shifted far too much to attacking only with the stats and XP formulea presented this round. I know there are plenty of galaxies where you don't have to expect much or any defence fleets to be sent ingal. The need for ppl to form groups and help eachother grow / win is basicly gone, which makes it harder and harder to maintain a community (as ppl get fed up with the endless streams of incoming that simply cannot be defended and quit).

This isn't only due to the XP system though. Due to the combat engine only having ships fire at one target, it is inevitable that every race gets obvious weaknesses against other races because of ships killing their anti-ship before being able to fire. This means players don't really require any skill, they just need to walk through the stats and check the race they can target with their roid fleets. And XP just adds an extra reward for sticking to a pure roid fleet and hitting those weaker races, while in essence that play requires far less work and skill than value play these days as value players have something to lose where XP players hardly have anything to lose.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 10:21   #4
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Re: Xp

My planet is similar to yours (1m value, 2.6m score), except you've got 10x as many roids as me (and I'm about to be roided) and you're Terran. I'm Xan. I think the real problem is that XP seems to encourage crashing fleet. I suggested that XP worked as normal, and value was actually a multiplier of score, e.g. Score = Value * XP * k

This is of course screaming for people to hoard some XP at the start of the round and then build up value. However, it still encourages people to try to keep their fleet and their roids.

Another idea is to have some kind of morale factor whereby losing ships will put your planet into some kind of disarray. Finally, XP could instead be some kind of average of sum of the ratio's of your value to your targets.

XP has done one thing and that is create more landings

P.S. Its XP, or xp. Not Xp. Just like you can say FS, fs, but never ever Fs or Ffs
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 10:26   #5
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Re: Xp

Oh and as you say, its xp thats keeping CT above vgn. Perhaps this is why the CT/Destiny "war" was allowed to carry on for so long while vgn gained endless value?
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 10:28   #6
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
P.S. Its XP, or xp. Not Xp. Just like you can say FS, fs, but never ever Fs or Ffs
I completely agree. However, the forum software doesn't agree, and won't allow topics which are all caps, even if it's just a two-letter acronym.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 11:57   #7
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows

This isn't only due to the XP system though. Due to the combat engine only having ships fire at one target, it is inevitable that every race gets obvious weaknesses against other races because of ships killing their anti-ship before being able to fire. This means players don't really require any skill, they just need to walk through the stats and check the race they can target with their roid fleets. And XP just adds an extra reward for sticking to a pure roid fleet and hitting those weaker races, while in essence that play requires far less work and skill than value play these days as value players have something to lose where XP players hardly have anything to lose.
I fully agree with that. Stats are indeed way too easy to play with. It's way too easy to get them roids these days. And it has made this universe way too attack orientated. Should make it a bit more hard to attack, and easier to defend in my opinion, since people are sleepy sleepy these days (like me )
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 12:07   #8
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
This isn't only due to the XP system though. Due to the combat engine only having ships fire at one target, it is inevitable that every race gets obvious weaknesses against other races because of ships killing their anti-ship before being able to fire. This means players don't really require any skill, they just need to walk through the stats and check the race they can target with their roid fleets. And XP just adds an extra reward for sticking to a pure roid fleet and hitting those weaker races, while in essence that play requires far less work and skill than value play these days as value players have something to lose where XP players hardly have anything to lose.
Changing the combat engine isn't the only solution to this. If every player gets access to the same (say) 20 ships, rather than everyone having very obvious and singular fleets, a large part of this simplicity will be combated.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 12:50   #9
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
I think the real problem is that XP seems to encourage crashing fleet.
I don't think it really encourages people to crash there fleet, but at the same time, if someone playing for xp sees that there's def and calculates that they could perhaps lose most of there fleet, but still cap roids and xp, they're going to do it.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 12:53   #10
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
I don't think it really encourages people to crash there fleet, but at the same time, if someone playing for xp sees that there's def and calculates that they could perhaps lose most of there fleet, but still cap roids and xp, they're going to do it.
So, where is that NOT encouraging to crash your fleet?
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 12:56   #11
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
So, where is that NOT encouraging to crash your fleet?
Well, if you crash your fleet and only enough survive to cap on roids, it's going to take a while to rebuild what was lost so you can attack effectively again. Especially since people who keep crashing there fleets make easy targets and get there roids picked off very easily.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 12:58   #12
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
I think the real problem is that XP seems to encourage crashing fleet. I suggested that XP worked as normal, and value was actually a multiplier of score, e.g. Score = Value * XP * k
The only attacks I've landed this round that haven't been worthwhile in terms of roidcost and value were three blind landings around pt130. Other than that almost all my attacks have been gratis and quite beneficial in terms of XP. I'm 10:2:11 and I'm headed for a top50 finish with Terran. My planet is part of the problem, yet I don't crash fleets. That implies that if crashing fleets is a problem, it is not the only problem and it is not sufficient to merely address this.

Incidentally, with your formula for score, DeLoS would only lose one rank. I'd still be top100 and Rob's rank wouldn't change.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 13:26   #13
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
The only attacks I've landed this round that haven't been worthwhile in terms of roidcost and value were three blind landings around pt130. Other than that almost all my attacks have been gratis and quite beneficial in terms of XP. I'm 10:2:11 and I'm headed for a top50 finish with Terran. My planet is part of the problem, yet I don't crash fleets. That implies that if crashing fleets is a problem, it is not the only problem and it is not sufficient to merely address this.

Incidentally, with your formula for score, DeLoS would only lose one rank. I'd still be top100 and Rob's rank wouldn't change.
That's dependant on k.

I've not lost fleet at all this round, like you - infact last night was the first time my calc said I'd lose roids when I launched on a zik. But proposing that xp is a multiplier of value would encourage trying to keep your roids and build some fleet, rather than sending 100 BS at me (I've probably let 20 or so fleets land on me for max xp) because shadows are pure useless.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 13:26   #14
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
I completely agree. However, the forum software doesn't agree, and won't allow topics which are all caps, even if it's just a two-letter acronym.
Sorry then
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 13:30   #15
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Re: Xp

I'd just like to point out that currently 9 of the top 10 xp rankings are all Etd. Wonder if they'll get someone to fill that 10th rank by the end of the round.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 13:31   #16
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
I'd just like to point out that currently 9 of the top 10 xp rankings are all Etd. Wonder if they'll get someone to fill that 10th rank by the end of the round.
I'll have a word with the Eitraides high command and see if they'll let us in on their dastardly plans
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 13:59   #17
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
That's dependant on k.
No, it's not. Multiplication is associative. No matter where you put k, no matter what brackets you put around your value * XP * k equation, the actual relation will stay the same. Having k there at all is pretty pointless.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 16:42   #18
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Re: Xp

I cant believe how high your score is Jester after the utterly horrid start to the round you made for yourself.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 16:53   #19
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
I cant believe how high your score is Jester after the utterly horrid start to the round you made for yourself.
Oh ye of little faith . . .

As an aside, here's how value is counted too much in the current XP formula:

The current formula is:

min(2,value_factor) * min(2,score_factor) - 1

And is capped at 3, giving a bravery of 30. The value factor and score factor each consist of two variables, the values of the attacker and target, and the scores of the attacker and target, respectively.

Factor = target/attacker

Let Va be the value of the attacker, Sa be the score of the attacker, Vt be the value of the target and St be the score of the target. Let Vf be value_factor in the current XP formula and let Sf be score_factor.

We have Vf = Vt/Va and similar for score.

Vf < 2 and Sf < 2, and the attacker lowers his value by a certain amount, then both Vf and Sf will increase. However, the only way that Sf can become larger without decreasing Va is by St becoming larger independently of Vt. Since St is not part of the formula for Vf, then changing St without changing Va or Vt will not affect Vf.

Therefore, value counts more than score in the current formula. QED. In other words, a very basic starting point would be to change score in the current formula to XP. However, the problem is likely deeper than this simple analysis as it ignores all environmental factors (ie player motivations and ability to gain competitive amounts of XP).
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 18:43   #20
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Re: Xp

From what I seen this round the skill level needed to gain high value isn't really better than the skill level required to gain high xp. Just 3-fleet in small cluster gals and grab some free roids. Wait a day till they recovered a bit - do it again.

I don't think the XP formula is fundamentally broken (not more than the bash limit formula at least). All races except Etraides have value heavy planets on top. The problem is simply the stats of this round. Can't repeat it often enough - never implement pods that are more than 10% more expensive than their flak.

Ideally someone should win that is good both on xp and value. It would show that he constantly attacks other big planets while being able to keep his roids and fleet.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 20:46   #21
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Re: Xp

I was thinking about XP well I was working today (OMG I think of PA when I work I am so sad) and I realized the entire premise of XP is wrong. Experience is a factor that modifies an outcome not an outcome in it’s self. So XP being raw untouchable score is flawed as a concept. Well experience can not be taken away from an individual this does not change however that experience does not lead to mistakes, loses and unfortunate events. So upon further thought why is XP not a modifier to score? Every so much XP a player has modifies his value based score. Perhaps the math is as simple as for every 1000 XP there is a 1% increase in the score your value applies to the total. This would mean that in order to receive double the score of your value you would need 100,000 XP. I don’t believe any planet in the universe even with these stats has that much XP. The top XP planet right now that I can see is at 69,000 XP with a value of 782,901.

Now the % of score can always be tinkered with but at least with this formula you can see wars becoming relevant again and fleet catches of top value planets being a must for hostile alliances.

XP remains relevant and there I s reward to attacking larger players yet still hanging on to your fleet and not taking loses.

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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 20:57   #22
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
No, it's not. Multiplication is associative. No matter where you put k, no matter what brackets you put around your value * XP * k equation, the actual relation will stay the same. Having k there at all is pretty pointless.
OK, seems I gave the wrong formula - sorry ;p

What I (think I) meant was:

Score = Value * (1 + XP * k)
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 20:59   #23
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Re: Xp

lol well ya ok but I like my formula better

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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 21:48   #24
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Re: Xp

Troll, sorry, but the whole concept fo removable score is flawed. A QED for that can be found on suggestions forum.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 21:58   #25
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Re: Xp

But right now you have removable score in the form of value. All I have done is replaced XP from score on to it’s self to a modifier that can’t be taken away. In essence I haven’t changed how we get XP just what XP does. Is it fair that XP is a score on to it’s self? So an XP player can suffer no loses nor have a successful war waged upon them?

The flaw in your thinking is that you are following score in a sporting methodology. Where teams try and out score one another and can’t have there goals/points taken away from them. This does not work in PA because PA is a war setting. I think many people forget that. In a war setting you are trying to hurt your opponent as well as out gain them. With a scoring system with score being irremovable you are leading PA down the path of more and more rounds such as this. War is not a sport. PA is a war game.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 21:59   #26
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Re: Xp

Isn't value just removable score? I like Troll's idea. Probably would need to tinker with the multiplier to get a good balance, but isn't that always the case?
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 22:15   #27
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
OK, seems I gave the wrong formula - sorry ;p

What I (think I) meant was:

Score = Value * (1 + XP * k)
By distributive product:

Score = value + value * XP * k

Which is swiftly dominated by value * XP, almost regardless of k.

Edit: And troll's idea is Score = Value * (1 + XP * 1/100000).
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 22:37   #28
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
But right now you have removable score in the form of value. All I have done is replaced XP from score on to it’s self to a modifier that can’t be taken away. In essence I haven’t changed how we get XP just what XP does. Is it fair that XP is a score on to it’s self? So an XP player can suffer no loses nor have a successful war waged upon them?

The flaw in your thinking is that you are following score in a sporting methodology. Where teams try and out score one another and can’t have there goals/points taken away from them. This does not work in PA because PA is a war setting. I think many people forget that. In a war setting you are trying to hurt your opponent as well as out gain them. With a scoring system with score being irremovable you are leading PA down the path of more and more rounds such as this. War is not a sport. PA is a war game.
I do very much see your point about war, however, who does actually go to war if you can only lose from waging it? You cannot win a war in planetarion right now; even if XP would be removed we'd still see people caring more about gaining cheap roids and protecting than about crushing an opponent - simply because you are bound to lose fleets if you go to war. So, in order to encourage war, because as you pointed correctly pa should still be a war game, you have to give out incentives to start a war.

You will eventually figure out why planetarion is likely to continue like this round when score keeps to be removable. None of the 3 contenders for #1 wanted to start a war with the others because it is simply not benefitial to them. 2 of those 3 would slay each other and the third one would sail away. Sure, you could try to get them back when you form an alliance, but by that time the non-warring alliance is likely to have so much fleet that they are hard to get at.

Ultimately you will find that Planetarion has to adapt to the market situation if you want to have a game which people actually play. The demanding value way drove people away, just like the half-assed xp attempt is driving people away. If you can live with a game that is already played actively by less than 500 people, fine, your choice. Personally I prefer games which offer more competition, and which have less potential for frustration. Not to mention the time consumed; which was only worth it as long as you actually gained something from it - losing all your achievements on the last day (to take the extreme example) might be joyful for masochists but is certainly not going to make you feel that you spent your time well for the rest of mankind.

Anyhow, the only changes that non-removable score will really bring is that you have to act earlier while at the same time you're lowering potential frustration. You cannot sit back and try to wait for the last week and organize a massive "knock-out" of some enemy, you have to be aggressive all time by not just trying to increase your score growth but also by limiting the score growth of the enemy - which, for example, could be perfectly achieved by removing your enemies fleets.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 22:54   #29
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Re: Xp

I suppose the middle ground would have to be something like what was suggested in the suggestions forum. Using the above formula with removable score, but having your peak score be the score counted for alliance and planet rankings. This would do a bit of both I would assume. With XP being easier to acquire early in the round it would mean lots of battles for XP. Then mid round focus on maintaining your value and keeping roids. Alliances could knock down large planets in the middle of the round before they continued to acquire value to be modified by there early round XP before there peak score got to high. This would most likely lead to a non stop action paced round where stagnation came on at the very end where planets would be looking to cap XP on large raids against top planets to boast there score before the final tick.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 23:07   #30
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Ultimately you will find that Planetarion has to adapt to the market situation if you want to have a game which people actually play. The demanding value way drove people away, just like the half-assed xp attempt is driving people away. If you can live with a game that is already played actively by less than 500 people, fine, your choice. Personally I prefer games which offer more competition, and which have less potential for frustration. Not to mention the time consumed; which was only worth it as long as you actually gained something from it - losing all your achievements on the last day (to take the extreme example) might be joyful for masochists but is certainly not going to make you feel that you spent your time well for the rest of mankind.
When did we all turn into newbiecoddlers? Why do we assume that being able to lose everything on the last day is bad? Isn't risk exciting anymore?

I'm not sure of the answers to any of those questions, by the way, so I'm asking honestly :\
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 23:50   #31
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Re: Xp

@Troll: probably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
When did we all turn into newbiecoddlers? Why do we assume that being able to lose everything on the last day is bad? Isn't risk exciting anymore?

I'm not sure of the answers to any of those questions, by the way, so I'm asking honestly :\
I have no clue either
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 02:35   #32
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
When did we all turn into newbiecoddlers? Why do we assume that being able to lose everything on the last day is bad? Isn't risk exciting anymore?

I'm not sure of the answers to any of those questions, by the way, so I'm asking honestly :\
probally when we saw the coders had no clue as to what they are doing

I'm all for people lossing everything on the last day. I was trying to placate heartless to show him how flexible and generous I can be
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 04:57   #33
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll
The flaw in your thinking is that you are following score in a sporting methodology. Where teams try and out score one another and can’t have there goals/points taken away from them. This does not work in PA because PA is a war setting. I think many people forget that. In a war setting you are trying to hurt your opponent as well as out gain them. With a scoring system with score being irremovable you are leading PA down the path of more and more rounds such as this. War is not a sport. PA is a war game.
I don't think you're correct here. We play PA because it is a game. If we really wanted an actual war we'd all go out and start one. The only certain conclusion about a wargame is that we have a definitive way of deciding on the winners of the game. All wargames do not follow reality exactly and the extent to which they do is largely contingent on what the designers want.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 10:31   #34
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Re: Xp

Assuming the definition "war game" is the correct one for PA, of course.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 11:27   #35
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
When did we all turn into newbiecoddlers? Why do we assume that being able to lose everything on the last day is bad? Isn't risk exciting anymore?

I'm not sure of the answers to any of those questions, by the way, so I'm asking honestly :\
Perhaps the problem is that under the old system you could lose things you weren't putting on the line.

When I woke up this morning my DSL wasn't working, so I would've had to go to the library or something to check my attacks. This made me wonder a bit. What was I going to lose if I didn't get to an access point? Was it fair? The answers are fairly obvious. I was risking the two attack fleets I had out. And it was definitely fair. Constant, uncaring progress is part of Planetarion and an internet connection is required to play.

But I was also risking everything I had at my base, which I had not made a conscious decision to risk. That was implicit. If I had gotten incoming, I might not be able to move my fleet. My fleet was at risk because it existed. There's a sort of paradox at work here. The better you play, the more you have at risk.

The problem is that effective war is often waged by taking advantage of this fact. Specifically, killing ships is important. If we allow ships to be safe at base, will they only be at risk when we attack? And if so, won't PA become fairly tedious?

Not necessarily, but with the current simple ship/combat setup, it's likely. I think that if ships were base-safeable (I just invented that word), then making ship stats and attacks much more variable would compensate. Obviously I would propose the 20 or so ships available to everyone that I've been talking about for the last week.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 11:31   #36
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Re: Xp

remove xp from the game..... nothing wrong with how pa used to be D: If anything make it so that if you attack a planet thats bigger than you, you get +1 eta and leave it at that!
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 15:06   #37
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Re: Xp

in all these new XP formules might i suggest something thats so incredible simple that its been overlooked. we have had xp based on value and xp based on value and score. both promotes xp-whoring since keeping your value low and crashing on a big planet will increase your score.

what if we made XP entirely (or at least mainly) score based. that way an xp whore will eventually find himself on high in the score rankings making it impossible for him to continue xp whoring, upon which he has to find a different method to stay up. and xp still promotes attacking harder targets rather then newbie roiding because attacking high scoring players (which then will be high value players aswell according to previously stated reason) still gives a significant bonus over newbie roiding.

just my 2c.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 21:21   #38
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Re: Xp

xp is not broken. Im in the top10 in xp and I havent crashed a single fleet. I attack large planets and roll the dice on whether or not they will get defense. Picking vulnerable targets, avoiding piggies, waves in front of you, and fleetcatches takes just as much skill as stockpiling value.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 21:23   #39
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikard
in all these new XP formules might i suggest something thats so incredible simple that its been overlooked. we have had xp based on value and xp based on value and score. both promotes xp-whoring since keeping your value low and crashing on a big planet will increase your score.

what if we made XP entirely (or at least mainly) score based. that way an xp whore will eventually find himself on high in the score rankings making it impossible for him to continue xp whoring, upon which he has to find a different method to stay up. and xp still promotes attacking harder targets rather then newbie roiding because attacking high scoring players (which then will be high value players aswell according to previously stated reason) still gives a significant bonus over newbie roiding.

just my 2c.

why do you want to make xp not a viable way to win? As the top10 shows a pretty even balance of xp and value planets, I would say neither is the wrong way, just different ways of competing in the same game.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 21:58   #40
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Re: Xp

Because XP in its current form is bad for the game. It encourages ppl to play a pure attack strategy only, which does the community (and thus the game) more harm than it does good. Sure it might work nice to get a top rank, but this game needs interaction between galaxy members and alliance members to stay alive.

Just judging from the gals i've seen players are focussing more and more on just going out roiding without really caring about being roided themselves. This also leads to more waves of incoming than can possibly be covered by anyone, which isn't totally bad, but the scale on which it happens is just insane. I've had several ppl who like to play a bit more casual (get some roids, grow some value, get some more roids etc etc) quit because of the endless streams of incoming that couldn't be covered. XP in current form simply isn't helping the game.
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 00:02   #41
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Re: Xp

What Wandows said. also going for XP will still viable and profitable, but crashing for it wont be
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 00:09   #42
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Re: Xp

I think XP should be a small addition to the real score, i.e. value, and not be as important as it is
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 04:56   #43
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
Because XP in its current form is bad for the game. It encourages ppl to play a pure attack strategy only, which does the community (and thus the game) more harm than it does good. Sure it might work nice to get a top rank, but this game needs interaction between galaxy members and alliance members to stay alive.

Just judging from the gals i've seen players are focussing more and more on just going out roiding without really caring about being roided themselves. This also leads to more waves of incoming than can possibly be covered by anyone, which isn't totally bad, but the scale on which it happens is just insane. I've had several ppl who like to play a bit more casual (get some roids, grow some value, get some more roids etc etc) quit because of the endless streams of incoming that couldn't be covered. XP in current form simply isn't helping the game.
the "community" is about the people, not the game. Its always been that way. Some of the most fun discussions Ive seen have been in the ascendancy channel and theres no defense or organization going on there. Just some skilled players attacking and having fun. This game has had a steady decrease in player base since round 6 and it has nothing to do with xp. XP actually helps the solo player who doesnt want to or cant get into a good alliance. Some of you are so one dimensional that you think there can only be one way to play the game and only one way to win and any other way is "bad for the game". Every round someone outsmarts the rules and finds a way to win and its declared bad for the game and the code changed. Basically the game gets changed every round to help the dumb player who isnt smart enough to find a way to win and just wants to build as many ships as he can. So heres to collective stupidity!
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 08:48   #44
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Re: Xp

How am i one sided? I have no problem with there being a form of score, as i said above i have a problem with XP in its current form, not the idea of XP in general. The play style Ascendancy has just isn't gonna keep PA alive. I am aware that it is fun and all to be in chan with a fun group of ppl (which you know already from previous rounds) and perhaps sharing a tag ingame, but ultimately this doesn't help anyone now does it? If everyone just goes out attacking why even bother with trying to make defence ships in the stats, just give everyone 2 pod classes and 5 or 6 flak ships in each class and see who can land most attacks. Defence always has been what formed the community, the need for you to be helped by others to survive and repaying that favour in the same way (whether incluster, alliance or galaxy or just with friends). Galaxies and alliances all become useless (since defence is part of their workings) and there is just no point in keeping them apart from having another ranking with some form of combined score. This round has shifted completely to the opposite, defence is to expensive and basicly only worth it if you have no other ships are base to form a decent attack fleet with. I have 3-fleet defended on several days this round, dropping me considerably in the ranks for trying to help other, great way to move the game forward! You might not have the same feeling towards losing roids, but i know there are alot of players out there who get fed up and quit seeing the endless streem of hostile fleets they can do fk all about.

I will forgive you for missing the point, but if you can't see there is no reason for there to be a community with XP in its current form you aren't really aware of how alot of ppl play the game. Sure alot of the current players won't have a problem with it since they have groups to play with, but that will drop and drop because there simply is no reason to stay involved. Why bother going online to meet and help other ppl if you can go find a target yourself in about 5 minutes to launch your attack fleets on. Playing swap the roid for 6 weeks and see who got the most score doing it isn't really going to help the game at all, it only encourages selfish play.
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 09:16   #45
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Re: Xp

xp lags!
if u have a value planet flaking a xp planet the xp planet will deinately win
to play as a xp planet you even need some1 contatntly rodiing u what is again against the rules
xp is a try to keep inactive players as even an inactive xp player payed for the account
most xp players play for its own and ofc there is skill in their attacks but i think its also lot of skills in FCing some1, or faking, or having great battlereport.
xp kills the active players more and more

remember paX when Gerbi coverOped to the top
it got changed cause none would have catched him.
if they didnt we would have coverop whores and not xp whores
xp is a nice bonus but shouldnt be the main point
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 09:38   #46
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Re: Xp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjor
xp kills the active players more and more
And the activity required to do well with playing for value kills everyone. Now let's see what removes more people from the game.
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 11:24   #47
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Re: Xp

XP is way too skewed now.

And removing the viability of FCing, which was actually one of the most fun elements of PA in this round surely has made it boring to play zik.

The only counter you can do on xp whores is to FC thier ships - but not it doesnt even pay off so why borther?

Id like to see xp having a considerably less important role in the total score.

And bring back FCing tx!
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 15:32   #48
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Re: Xp

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Defence always has been what formed the community
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 16:07   #49
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Re: Xp

Whatever, why not post your own thoughts under your own nick instead of posting with some lame gimmick account?
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 13:14   #50
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Re: Xp

I'll say it again, make XP gain proportionate to the amount of your fleet that survived. Offset it at 30% or so to make 70% loss or worse gain no XP if necessary.

After all, a battle commander would hardly be rewarded for losing troops in the real world - something not reflected by PA.
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