Planetarion Forums - NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

rshih · 26 Nov 2006, 10:39

Lies, I've only majorly suicided once

rain · 26 Nov 2006, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by isildurx

Id rather see exi win than ND who has suicided fleets like morons most of the round.

there
another one
pfft
/me slaps isildurx

ComradeRob · 26 Nov 2006, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

We're tired of a few things:

1) Furious Omen saying that they didn't merge to beat the scoring system to win.

Planetarion alliance HCs in 'lying bastards' shocker!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrow

2) Being blamed for not single-handedly attacking the alliance with the highest concentration of value.

By whom? Not by anyone with any sense - anyone that matters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrow

3) An ill-founded perception of our unwillingness to make political moves to win the round.

People are always going to accuse alliances of this. You should be capable of ignoring it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrow

4) stupid people.

There are far too many of them to waste your time with. Ignore them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrow

This post was meant to illustrate that should, HAHA, Furious Omen stop ****ing about by treating us as an inferior alliance that should do their dirty work for them, we don't hold grudges like they do. Read into it what you will.

The rankings say that you are an inferior alliance. You are objecting to the idea that, by fighting eXilition, another alliance which is already ahead of you in the rankings might win. This is contrasted with a situation where, if you do not hit eXilition, an alliance already ahead of you in the rankings will definitely win. I don't think you're in any position to be dictating the kind of terms that you're attempting to.

What you should be doing: be diplomatic with FO. In other words, be nice to them. Tell them what they want to hear, encouragedthem to believe that your only interest is in stopping eXilition from winning another round. Break the NAP with eXilition, and follow that with a nice 'may the best alliance win' post on AD. Make it expressly clear that, if FO finish 1st, you're entirely happy for them to win, because if you don't do that they will never trust you. Start laying plans for the first night of hitting eXilition, making sure that every ND member with a fleet launches at least two fleets (ok, this might be unrealistic, but you've got to aim high). In the meantime, hope that FO and Vision/ToF/P|M/whoever make a decent attempt at hitting eXilition, encouraged by your promises of support. At the very least, make damn sure that they entire the fight no later than you do, and at full force.

You and I both know that FO would be bad winners. But there's a difference between privately knowing something, and making a public issue out of it at the very time when you need FO's cooperation. I'm loathe to throw around accusations of political stupidity, but this is definitely bad diplomacy.

I'm sure you can remember round 6. How many alliances did we manage to keep pulling in the same direction against FLVT? I think it was something like 12 alliances at one point, many of whom hated each other's guts. But we were diplomatic about it; we kept our ranting about WP's schizophrenic HC or Dingo's political machinations or Xanadu's incredible obstinacy to our private channels and publicly made nice with people that we didn't like very much in order to serve our long-term plans. It's not particularly fun, but it is very effective (so effective that it was easy enough to persuade most of those alliances to do it again in round 9, only this time with more of a plan about how to dispose of them

).

I admit that it's a lot easier for me to sit outside and make posts like this than it is for you to sit at the middle of it all and deal with the real situation. And I don't think that you are personally responsible for the situation; I have my suspicions about who is really to blame. And FO deserve at least as much of the blame, since they're going to lose too.

isildurx · 26 Nov 2006, 11:02

Dont teach em lessons Rob, might backfire in rounds to come

Stoom · 26 Nov 2006, 11:19

Kargool · 26 Nov 2006, 11:24

Okay, so just a question, ND napped eXilition in the first place, now eXi is winning the round. ND wants FO to make up for their own mistakes so that ND can go ahead and win the round.

Just to say one more comment. ND would prolly not have been where they are without the nap with eXi, so maybe they should just keep quiet, take the 2 or 3rd spot and be happy about it.

In my opinion ND brought this upon themselves. Cant blame others for this.

Forest · 26 Nov 2006, 11:27

Exi really must be pissing emsleves laughing.

I am sure the rest of pa is too

Well played New Dawn, you just managed to make a laughing stock of yourselves again.

Comrade Rob says it all really, I dont think I can add to that.

Mek · 26 Nov 2006, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by lokken

This thread is one of the biggest loads of shit I've ever read.

Sorry but it is.

care to elaborate on why you think this thread is "the biggest load of shit" you have ever read?

mazzelaar · 26 Nov 2006, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

Exi really must be pissing emsleves laughing.

I am sure the rest of pa is too

Well played New Dawn, you just managed to make a laughing stock of yourselves again.

Comrade Rob says it all really, I dont think I can add to that.

Why are they a laughing stock? Rob pointed out a *better* way to do something. His post wasn't making fun of them or belittling them; merely pointed out a better way to get the job done.

Your post is typical of why PA is so utterly, utterly shit. People would much rather slate, slander and belittle than offer any reasonable logic.

ND have manouvered themselves into a pretty good position to win the round so I guess the last laugh is with them. The option they should have taken it to maximise that chance by just going into a last ditch race with FO by, as Rob says, working the diplomacy angle and teaming with FO to cnut eXilition and having the 'best' alliance win.

With a bit of luck and common sense this thread can be put behind both FO and ND and they can work together and just accept whoever wins had more staying power.

Forest · 26 Nov 2006, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

Why are they a laughing stock? Rob pointed out a *better* way to do something. His post wasn't making fun of them or belittling them; merely pointed out a better way to get the job done.

He pointed out a FEASIBLE way to get things done. ND have continually ripped the piss out of angels politics all round, then make a joke of an offer that quite frankly, is not even close to being acceptable.
They simply let themsleves down to the same level that they have been accusing Angels of all round.
Maybe they sholdnt throw so mnay stones in their glass house.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

Your post is typical of why PA is so utterly, utterly shit. People would much rather slate, slander and belittle than offer any reasonable logic.

I, and others, have offered different ways of doing things. Both in pm and on these boards. Both me and you, and just about everyone else knows that napping exi is not the way to beat them. You of all people should know that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

ND have manouvered themselves into a pretty good position to win the round so I guess the last laugh is with them. The option they should have taken it to maximise that chance by just going into a last ditch race with FO by, as Rob says, working the diplomacy angle and teaming with FO to cnut eXilition and having the 'best' alliance win.

Whether ND ever had a geniune chance of winning is of personal opinion.
I am of the opinion that Exi would of smacked ND eventually cause they want to win, and Angels would of helped out of spite due to the treatment ND have dished out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

With a bit of luck and common sense this thread can be put behind both FO and ND and they can work together and just accept whoever wins had more staying power.

Indeed this thread SHOULD be put behind them both. Surely though, that you want it put behind you means tha its a shit thread without substance, and therfor you agree with me?

ReligFree · 26 Nov 2006, 12:39

This thread is so stupid. WHo the hell are eXi gonna hit if FO and ND hit them? FO of course, so ND will get free roid gains and jump score massively due to the XP hits. Use your fking head.

Edit: Oh and you just told eXi that if they threaten to target you instead of FO then you wont join in on hitting them.

Played Duck. Brilliant

robban1 · 26 Nov 2006, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by lokken

This thread is one of the biggest loads of shit I've ever read.

Sorry but it is.

well its your boys who did the tread so i feel sorry for you atm :/ spineless ppl playing a pussygame for what? #3? cudos for that

mazzelaar · 26 Nov 2006, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

He pointed out a FEASIBLE way to get things done. ND have continually ripped the piss out of angels politics all round, then make a joke of an offer that quite frankly, is not even close to being acceptable.
They simply let themsleves down to the same level that they have been accusing Angels of all round.
Maybe they sholdnt throw so mnay stones in their glass house.

This thread was made when talks between FO and ND broke down. They had tried (not hard enough in my opinion) to come to an arrangement. Angels politics have been, and continue to be, laughable. I'm not saying ND have been perfect by any stretch of the imagination but to compare the two is just nonsensical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

I, and others, have offered different ways of doing things. Both in pm and on these boards. Both me and you, and just about everyone else knows that napping exi is not the way to beat them. You of all people should know that.

And what was your idea? The usual "I AM FOREST AND I WILL RUN AROUND CREATING THE BLOCK THAT WILL BE SAVIOUR OF PLANETARION AND I WILL CNUT THE CHEATING EVUL EXI BASTARDS!!!!!11111".

You're right napping eXilition permenantly is not the way to beat them. Napping them until you are in position to take them out is. Both FO and ND are in this position now if they work together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

Whether ND ever had a geniune chance of winning is of personal opinion.
I am of the opinion that Exi would of smacked ND eventually cause they want to win, and Angels would of helped out of spite due to the treatment ND have dished out.

Of course they are in a position to win. Are you blind? They could turn this into a plain race between them and FO if both sides showed a bit of foresight and common sense. eXilition don't need to 'smack' ND at any point. They have a roid, score and value lead so why would they antagonise a 'friendly' alliance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

Indeed this thread SHOULD be put behind them both. Surely though, that you want it put behind you means tha its a shit thread without substance, and therfor you agree with me?

I agree the thread should be put behind us, yes. I don't agree with you that ND are a laughing stock which is the statement I originally posted. ND could have done this better but this thread was ultimately caused by a breakdown of diplomacy. They simply should have tried harder.

Alki · 26 Nov 2006, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil^

oh how insightful of you leff.
From what I can see, you have three options
Reject the proposal and lose the round
Accept the proposal and lose the round
or Accept the proposal, backstab to win the round and lose any credibility for future rounds.

the balls in your court, which shall it be?
( grats to ND for doing this publically btw, masterstroke of PR )

oh please take your dick out of there ass jesus christ, this thread is as much a farce as the whole round has been.

ND comes here tries to claim the moral high ground by creating this thread by saying, 'oh we really really really want to hit exi, but we cant because we cant allow FO to win' You are as much to blame if not even more for allowing exi to be #1 at the moment. This thread is utter tripe, a complete and utter shit way of creating bad PR for Angels Omen, because you know fine well that they will not accept the offer, and even if they do and backstab you, you always have this thread to bounce back on.

Either way what happens your going to come out better from all this to all the blind idiots, just for the sheer fact that if exi win you can roll around and say 'oh we wanted to do something but FO wouldnt agree to it' and if FO win(from you proposal) it simply screws there politics for next round, or does it?

Forest · 26 Nov 2006, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

This thread was made when talks between FO and ND broke down. They had tried (not hard enough in my opinion) to come to an arrangement. Angels politics have been, and continue to be, laughable. I'm not saying ND have been perfect by any stretch of the imagination but to compare the two is just nonsensical.

ND pretty much refused to work with Angels earlier in the round at a time when Exi could of been beat.
They refused out of what can be described as spite at best and inept at worst.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

And what was your idea? The usual "I AM FOREST AND I WILL RUN AROUND CREATING THE BLOCK THAT WILL BE SAVIOUR OF PLANETARION AND I WILL CNUT THE CHEATING EVUL EXI BASTARDS!!!!!11111".

I made it quite clear to all alliances that I didnt care who won. I even made it clear I didnt mind if exi won. The important issue is that there was actually a battle for 1st. A proper battle and not a token gesture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

You're right napping eXilition permenantly is not the way to beat them. Napping them until you are in position to take them out is. Both FO and ND are in this position now if they work together.

A big IF. This thread has shown how bad that breakdown in communications is.
I also think that ND have other plans and this is some kind of screen, but we can come to that later.
I think its certain given the current climate that even if Angels were to accept, ND wouldnt trust Angels to kcik members and iwll ahve a back up plan. Angels will know this too, and will also have a back up plan. And thus, exi will win when the back up plan kicks in

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

Of course they are in a position to win. Are you blind? They could turn this into a plain race between them and FO if both sides showed a bit of foresight and common sense. eXilition don't need to 'smack' ND at any point. They have a roid, score and value lead so why would they antagonise a 'friendly' alliance?

When the nap was signed between exi and ND, exi were fully aware that they would HAVE to smack ND if they are to win. ND and Exi going to war would always of happened had FO not occured. And ND had alienated themsleves there. There only allies would be Omen, who had already stated theuy wouldnt mind Exi winning. And Omen hardly have a reputation for hitting exi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

I agree the thread should be put behind us, yes. I don't agree with you that ND are a laughing stock which is the statement I originally posted. ND could have done this better but this thread was ultimately caused by a breakdown of diplomacy. They simply should have tried harder.

I think if I was a member of either ND or Angels I would be throughly pissed off with my HC.
Both sides could of won, and both sides chose to settle for less for a variety of reasons.

Yes, it could all change, and ND/FO hit exi. Indeed I hope it does.

But I wouldnt be putting my house on it.

Chika · 26 Nov 2006, 13:19

Well. I guess ND have some "go" to them for making this thread. But if Furious omen end with the most score for hitting exil, then, why would they kick hard working members to let the under-performing ND have the win. Sorry guys. Talk is cheap.
You also forgot about the 100's of planet naps people have with exil. I think even bitch ass keizara has a planet nap with exil. he isn't omen I dont think, but thats one top planet that won't be hitting exil, and you are going to need them all.

I have tbh, I would wrather see exil win than ND win because angels gave them the victory. Is this the best you guys can come up with to make this game fun?

I mean really, how gay can you get without realizing that you are gay.

Alki · 26 Nov 2006, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReligFree

This thread is so stupid. WHo the hell are eXi gonna hit if FO and ND hit them? FO of course, so ND will get free roid gains and jump score massively due to the XP hits. Use your fking head.

Edit: Oh and you just told eXi that if they threaten to target you instead of FO then you wont join in on hitting them.

Played Duck. Brilliant

Id simply hit FO since they actually have value and dont suicide like muppets, and simply concentrate all defence vs ND, since exi can pretty much cover 2 ND fleets with 1 of there own, that way all you need to do is roid swap with FO for the rest of the round

robban1 · 26 Nov 2006, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alki

Id simply hit FO since they actually have value and dont suicide like muppets, and simply concentrate all defence vs ND, since exi can pretty much cover 2 ND fleets with 1 of there own, that way all you need to do is roid swap with FO for the rest of the round

thx god im not ND cos i cant play your pussystyle for max top #2 useless ppl

mazzelaar · 26 Nov 2006, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

ND pretty much refused to work with Angels earlier in the round at a time when Exi could of been beat.
They refused out of what can be described as spite at best and inept at worst.

And ND were fully justified in what they did given the terms of Angels 'cooperation'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

I made it quite clear to all alliances that I didnt care who won. I even made it clear I didnt mind if exi won. The important issue is that there was actually a battle for 1st. A proper battle and not a token gesture.

So *all* the people you spoke to didn't fall in line with your plan. The blame can hardly be laid solely at the door of ND then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

A big IF. This thread has shown how bad that breakdown in communications is.
I also think that ND have other plans and this is some kind of screen, but we can come to that later.
I think its certain given the current climate that even if Angels were to accept, ND wouldnt trust Angels to kcik members and iwll ahve a back up plan. Angels will know this too, and will also have a back up plan. And thus, exi will win when the back up plan kicks in

It's not an 'if' at all. They are both still in that position right now as we speak. How can there be an ulterior motive? They've openly stated they're doing it to win the round, I fail to see what other objectives are relevant.
I also agree that the 'kicking' member is pointless and Nd should just accept an 'even' race while both sides go after eXilition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

When the nap was signed between exi and ND, exi were fully aware that they would HAVE to smack ND if they are to win. ND and Exi going to war would always of happened had FO not occured. And ND had alienated themsleves there. There only allies would be Omen, who had already stated theuy wouldnt mind Exi winning. And Omen hardly have a reputation for hitting exi.

You're rather missing the obvious. They are in a position to win now (and win comfortably) and they haven't needed to and currently don't need to hit ND. If nothing happens now between ND and FO then eXilition will cruise to a win without needing to fight anyone. Nothing has changed and the political posturing at the beginning of the round make it clearly obvious that eXilition were going to have it 'easy' and napping ND and never having to fight them was always going to make not having to fight them completely viable and likely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

I think if I was a member of either ND or Angels I would be throughly pissed off with my HC.
Both sides could of won, and both sides chose to settle for less for a variety of reasons.

Yes, it could all change, and ND/FO hit exi. Indeed I hope it does.

But I wouldnt be putting my house on it.

Both sides still can win and both sides can settle for second. The issue now is: can they put their ego's away and work together to make sure eXilition don't win and they both have an even chance of grabbing a victory.

This is where I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't think either side has the sense to drop the ego, just get on with and accept that they might lose in a straight score race.

Forest · 26 Nov 2006, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

And ND were fully justified in what they did given the terms of Angels 'cooperation'.

From a personal point of view they could be justified. However, from an alianve point of view I think they were unjustified. They didnt do what was best for there alliance out of spite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

So *all* the people you spoke to didn't fall in line with your plan. The blame can hardly be laid solely at the door of ND then.

Other alliances agreed to hit exi, it was ND who refused. ND even went as far as saying they would join n hitting Exi 48 hours after the other alliances showed they were willing to commit. Certain alliances committed and ND then decided actually they wouldnt join after all.
They have shown here to be just as distrustworthy as angels on that score.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

It's not an 'if' at all. They are both still in that position right now as we speak. How can there be an ulterior motive? They've openly stated they're doing it to win the round, I fail to see what other objectives are relevant.
I also agree that the 'kicking' member is pointless and Nd should just accept an 'even' race while both sides go after eXilition.

It is a massive if. IF they can work together, then one of them can win the round.
And yes, it would seem obvious to me that both alliances smack exi and then whoever leads the race wins the round.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

You're rather missing the obvious. They are in a position to win now (and win comfortably) and they haven't needed to and currently don't need to hit ND. If nothing happens now between ND and FO then eXilition will cruise to a win without needing to fight anyone. Nothing has changed and the political posturing at the beginning of the round make it clearly obvious that eXilition were going to have it 'easy' and napping ND and never having to fight them was always going to make not having to fight them completely viable and likely.

They dont need to at the moment because of the political decisions of others.

My statement was that ND could not win iwthout a war with exi.

As it stands, no war, ND cant win. I was therfor quite correct in what i was saying.

Had a war been needed from exi's POV then ND would of been at war. And as we know, exi wont back down from anything that may stand in the way of the win.
I might not get on with exi as best of friends, maybe becuase we are so similar, but there is no doubt that exi have the balls for a war if it is in there interests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

Both sides still can win and both sides can settle for second. The issue now is: can they put their ego's away and work together to make sure eXilition don't win and they both have an even chance of grabbing a victory.

One would hope so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

This is where I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't think either side has the sense to drop the ego, just get on with and accept that they might lose in a straight score race.

Its back to that same old thing, it that people are willing to settle for 2nd rather than risk all for 1st.
A train of thought that I just cannot agree with.

Alki · 26 Nov 2006, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

thx god im not ND cos i cant play your pussystyle for max top #2 useless ppl

im not ND

mazzelaar · 26 Nov 2006, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

From a personal point of view they could be justified. However, from an alianve point of view I think they were unjustified. They didnt do what was best for there alliance out of spite.

Cobbler. From an alliance PoV it was stupid. Angels wanted everyone else to hit eXilition whilst they sat on their arses and stretched the lead they already had. This is exactly what you condemn ND for in the quote below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

Other alliances agreed to hit exi, it was ND who refused. ND even went as far as saying they would join n hitting Exi 48 hours after the other alliances showed they were willing to commit. Certain alliances committed and ND then decided actually they wouldnt join after all.
They have shown here to be just as distrustworthy as angels on that score.

I think it's more likely that they considered Angels untrustworthy. I'll happily stand corrected here as I don't have the background knowledge one way or the other here being asI am nothing to do with ND command.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

It is a massive if. IF they can work together, then one of them can win the round.
And yes, it would seem obvious to me that both alliances smack exi and then whoever leads the race wins the round.

No. They can work together and they can win the round, thats unarguable. The phrase you're looking for is 'will they?'. I, personally, don't think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

They dont need to at the moment because of the political decisions of others.

My statement was that ND could not win iwthout a war with exi.

No it wasn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

When the nap was signed between exi and ND, exi were fully aware that they would HAVE to smack ND if they are to win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

As it stands, no war, ND cant win. I was therfor quite correct in what i was saying.

As above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest

Its back to that same old thing, it that people are willing to settle for 2nd rather than risk all for 1st.
A train of thought that I just cannot agree with.

Agreed. This has been becoming a problem in PA for a long time.

HK · 26 Nov 2006, 14:21

Thank you, ND, you gave me a total of 3 minutes of unstoppable laughter. Thank god, I'm not playing this round seriously

Forest · 26 Nov 2006, 14:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
They dont need to at the moment because of the political decisions of others.

My statement was that ND could not win iwthout a war with exi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
When the nap was signed between exi and ND, exi were fully aware that they would HAVE to smack ND if they are to win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
As it stands, no war, ND cant win. I was therfor quite correct in what i was saying.

I am afraid that just confused the hell out of me, so I am gonna leave this debate before you bring sid along to pwm me more.

I still stand by my thoughts that ND could not win the round without a war with Exi.
This is because, if Exi were to win, and ND had pulled away, then Exi would of hit ND. Exi are not the kind of alliance to let someone win without trying.
Therefor, the original quote was correct in that ND would of had a war with Exi at some point if they are to win.

The second quote is also correct to some degree in that Exi were expecting to ahve to hit ND once they had dealt with Angels. The fact that Angels/ND couldnt get it together and let exi catch up meant they didnt need to hit ND to win. However, that doesnt mean they werent prepared to do so.

And the third quote is correct. At no point could ND win without a war with Exi, because Exi would of hit ND if it looked like ND were to win.

I tied myslef up somewhat explaining that.

Exi have done the same thing as 1up did when playing with a lower memberbase.
Everyone knew it, but no-one could/would stop it.
Dont you find it just a little bit ironic that it is the same alliance napping the winning alliance in the hope they could sneak a win, and making the same mistake?

Synthetic_Sid · 26 Nov 2006, 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

There have been repeated claims that the merger of Omen & Angels had nothing to do with trying to win; you claim it was simply a matter of revitalizing your membership and of creating something for the future.

The problem of course is that no-one outside of FO believes that for a minute.

You also claim that you don't care about who wins, as long as it isn't exi.

You have aproached ND about the possibility of ending our NAP to exi & all of us joining in together to stop the evil exi empire.

The problem with that is, if we do succeed in defeating exi, the likely winner of the round would of course be FO.

FO winning the round after the merge is a possibility that is unacceptable to us. We would rather continue to hit FO for the remainder of the round & let exi waltz to victory then accept the possibility of FO winning.

So here is our proposal:

We will agree to give immediate notification to exi that we will end our NAP.
At the end of which time we will commence on coordinated full scale hostilities towards exi.
You will agree that no matter what the outcome of the following wars is, you will on the last day of ticks remove enough people from the FO tag that you will finish below ND in the alliance rankings.

This gives you an opportunity to prove that the purpose of the merger wasn't to try to steal the win, it also gives you an opportunity to stop exi from winning the round handily.

If you are serious about the claims you have made regarding your merger, then we're sure these terms will be acceptable.

edited for spelling

That proposal is unworkable.

Exi aren't idiots. IF FO accept the agreement then all Exi have to do is focus their fire on ND and not worry abotu hitting FO at all - as the deal guarantees that so long as Exi stay ahead of ND they also stay ahead of FO. If taken, the deal probably dooms ND to 3rd and FO to 4th (if they were to keep it).

As I said in a different thread - all the time ND/Angels main worry is that the other one doesn't do well neither of you will do as well you otherwise would.

lokken · 26 Nov 2006, 14:41

The one science fact I'll contribute to this thread is that by turning against Angels, ND had no idea it would end up with a 20 million lead, their only concern at the time was the best way to stop Angels from firing threats at them, not winning. ND assumed that lead and put itself in a pretty good position.

So I'll conclude that without hindsight at the time, regardless of power curves or anything, that was a good decision by ND command. Because for an alliance waddling along - as it then was - they got themselves out of a scrape.

The decision they are fronted with now is a similar one - but in very different circumstances and this thread shows that ND command simply haven't adapted to that. ND are playing differently and within a different league. Both sides have to accept they are both drinking at the last chance saloon, try to compromise, work out a way to contain or hit exilition and hope for the best. Stamping on your feet making demand after demand will get you nowhere - both sides have to accept the practicalities of the other.

What has happened previous to today does not matter right now - it doesn't even matter what you are going to get, it's what ND and FO's HC and members are going to give to have even the slightest chance of winning. This thread only serves to dent those prospects, it is amateurish, unprofessional and counterproductive. Infact it's got a distinct Angelsness that I don't like about it. It's substandard.

It's easy at this point really. Gamble or you are definitely both dead.

Almeida · 26 Nov 2006, 15:07

when i heard preround that Angrynoob would return to ND as HC/officer/someone with a bit of a say i instantly knew that they would **** up their politics, but this is just ridiculous.

Asking another ally: Hey, help us do the dirty work and kill the #1 guys, but after they are down u gonna remove enough player to let us win.

is S T U P I D.
you are one of the worst tacticians i ever met/played under and you couldn't figure out how to make the best out of a situation if it was written in big bright neon letters right in front of you.

condolences to all the ND members...

jerome · 26 Nov 2006, 15:31

out of curiosity, what's the name of angryduck's new alliance for next round?

voodoo · 26 Nov 2006, 15:38

2BP
(2nd but proud)

Felagund · 26 Nov 2006, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

No, no qebab. The first two options are what we were offered by your HC. The third is our comedy gold response.

(edit: tense)

Angels offered Nd take down exi long time ago and u piss ur pants , i tried atleast twice times , but u played bad politics lettting exi be where it is now .if i were Furious Omen Hc i will answer to ur proposal with a F**** O****

cura · 26 Nov 2006, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felagund

Angels offered Nd take down exi long time ago and u piss ur pants , i tried atleast twice times , but u played bad politics lettting exi be where it is now .if i were Furious Omen Hc i will answer to ur proposal with a F**** O****

you're referring to this I take?
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...5&postcount=53

and we played bad politics, lol.
we all know who's responsible for the position where exi is now, there is no discussion about that.

ps. F**** O**** = FVCK OMEN?

ComradeRob · 26 Nov 2006, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by cura

we all know who's responsible for the position where exi is now, there is no discussion about that.

Every other alliance in the top 5, right?

Wishmaster · 26 Nov 2006, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by voodoo

2BP
(2nd but proud)

lol.

this made me chuckle

Felagund · 26 Nov 2006, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by cura

you're referring to this I take?
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...5&postcount=53

and we played bad politics, lol.
we all know who's responsible for the position where exi is now, there is no discussion about that.

ps. F**** O**** = FVCK OMEN?

Yeah cura u played exis politics congrats

qebab · 26 Nov 2006, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

No, no qebab. The first two options are what we were offered by your HC. The third is our comedy gold response.

(edit: tense)

In that case, I would say that they went quite far to give you a reasonable offer.

Mek · 26 Nov 2006, 19:07

zomg eXilition are -4 roids

...how will they stop the pain train

(Terry Tate FTW)

Phil^ · 26 Nov 2006, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alki

ND comes here tries to claim the moral high ground by creating this thread by saying, 'oh we really really really want to hit exi, but we cant because we cant allow FO to win' You are as much to blame if not even more for allowing exi to be #1 at the moment. This thread is utter tripe, a complete and utter shit way of creating bad PR for Angels Omen, because you know fine well that they will not accept the offer, and even if they do and backstab you, you always have this thread to bounce back on.

Either way what happens your going to come out better from all this to all the blind idiots, just for the sheer fact that if exi win you can roll around and say 'oh we wanted to do something but FO wouldnt agree to it' and if FO win(from you proposal) it simply screws there politics for next round, or does it?

Precisely
Its a PR move, plain and simple to set FO up as the fall guy if either Exilition win, or FO win by pointing to this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felagund

Yeah cura u played exis politics congrats

Everyone did, by not recognising them as a credible threat early on and actually DEALING with it - rather then fannying about. Their best advantage this round was that they were underestimated, to everyone elses cost.

aNgRyDuCk · 26 Nov 2006, 20:04

I don't see it as no one recongnised them as a credible threat, it's more you can only fight what you can see, and at the point in the round the political moves were made, decisions were based on the visible field

Wishmaster · 26 Nov 2006, 20:49

adapt

aNgRyDuCk · 26 Nov 2006, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

adapt

ofcourse, I'd agree, however you can only hit what you have information on intel wise. As for ND, we had good intel on the 4 alliances hitting us, thus, we hit back, and saw no reason to start crap with the 1 alliance that wasn't jacking with us. That's all been explained before in previous threads.

Travler · 26 Nov 2006, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

ofcourse, I'd agree, however you can only hit what you have information on intel wise. As for ND, we had good intel on the 4 alliances hitting us, thus, we hit back, and saw no reason to start crap with the 1 alliance that wasn't jacking with us. That's all been explained before in previous threads.

I think the point they are trying to make is that all the warning signs were there that eXi would go for the win.

Alot of people felt that letting eXi get anywhere would be akin to letting a convicted serial killer get out of jail and be allowed to purchase a gun. We don't know what he is going to do until he does it but past performance might give us a clue about what he might do.

Right now the killer is on the loose and local authorities have decided not to attempt to take him down unless they can get assistance from an outside agency but the real issue is not removing the killer from the streets but which group will claim the credit for taking him down.

Scorpio · 26 Nov 2006, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by add100

in a way i feel sorry for ND saying we will only take on exil if FO drop members out of tag to let them win....can they not do any better :P or at lest work for it

Wait a sec there!
Work to win?
Your alliance just merged trying to win. Talking about laziness.

FAnG and Omen have shown their incapability this round. Solid stupidity.
When you know Exilition is a contender for the nr. 1 spot, you focus on them. If you want other people to help you, ask them... don't threaten / attack them like you did with ND.

As long as I have known ND (since round 2), they have always primarily focused on fun and honour. They'd rather end 2nd or 3rd while honouring their agreements than winning the round in a dishonourable fashion.

lokken · 26 Nov 2006, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

I think the point they are trying to make is that all the warning signs were there that eXi would go for the win.

Alot of people felt that letting eXi get anywhere would be akin to letting a convicted serial killer get out of jail and be allowed to purchase a gun. We don't know what he is going to do until he does it but past performance might give us a clue about what he might do.

Right now the killer is on the loose and local authorities have decided not to attempt to take him down unless they can get assistance from an outside agency but the real issue is not removing the killer from the streets but which group will claim the credit for taking him down.

The point he's trying to make is that the decision a few weeks ago was a logical and reasonable one. And for an alliance of ND's stature it was, as exilition was not our concern and I doubt #1 was, the way we were playing - badly. Regardless of this Angels had a large group of players at their disposal in their block, more than enough, wanted to win, knew exilition were a threat to them and did nothing. Even then, half of their alliance was planet napped to them. My response that when you've got all the forces you possibly can to what you believe is your greatest threat - you don't go round hitting those who didn't help out of spite rather than getting on with it. This is exactly what Angels did.

There seems to be an expectation from the forum a few weeks ago ND should have capitulated to Angels - simply to be rid of exilition. They seem to hold it over ND for this when ND were not even in a position to remotely care about them. Little did ND know (or anyone for that matter) that ND would assume a lead and be in the firing line. And when this alliance with a 22million lead actually starts to look safe with it's lead extending and a probability it could summon forces to enable the capping of a lot of XP to secure its lead - two failed alliances merge to distract it and stop it. They have barred the door, in an unpredictable and hostile action. Yet somehow ND command are expected to have foreseen this by hitting exilition earlier.

Of course, they have to accept the situation and get on with the situation as it is dealt to them now. But now is in a different context to then, so both situations cannot be judged by the same standard.

While ND are part of the root cause (and somewhat knowingly), their actions at the point in time and in the context they were taken were thoroughly understandable and actually, good decisions, given their position. There are actions from other parties however, that are beyond reason.

So yes, if you wanted exilition to not win, ND are a villain of the piece - definitely. My question to you is this: if you didn't want them to win, what the hell were you doing about it if you saw it was going to unravel?

My answer is I didn't really care what ex got up to. I suspect a few answers will be 'inactive', 'not really playing' and best of all 'joined their fleetcatches'.

Treveler · 26 Nov 2006, 22:39

The opening post has to be the most retarded 'suggestion' I have ever seen from a political HC ever.

"We will only agree to team up if you lay down and let us win when the job is done, even if you are much better than us and deserve it".

Sorry Angryduck but this thread should just be deleted for the good of humanity.

What you should agree upon is to team up on Exil and make a mutual understanding that whoever does that best, deserve to win. I seriously hope you will let Germ do the politics in this new project of yours.

Felagund · 26 Nov 2006, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

ofcourse, I'd agree, however you can only hit what you have information on intel wise. As for ND, we had good intel on the 4 alliances hitting us, thus, we hit back, and saw no reason to start crap with the 1 alliance that wasn't jacking with us. That's all been explained before in previous threads.

u surely dont have intel of politics of those 4 alliances hitting u. If u would have listen in time , then we would have be ables to stop this , but u were blind :|(revenge FTW)

aNgRyDuCk · 26 Nov 2006, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felagund

u surely dont have intel of politics of those 4 alliances hitting u. If u would have listen in time , then we would have be ables to stop this , but u were blind :|(revenge FTW)

thats a line of crap....all your buddy mobrulz did was try to threaten everyone, and we told you to piss off because of it, wasn't anything to listen to but his threats

Chika · 27 Nov 2006, 01:00

This entire round has been a giant dissappointment. The winners were determined pre-round. Two of the top alliances MERGED and are still ranked lower than 50ish exil members. Then another "top" alliance comes on the boards and proclaims that they will fight these 50 members, but only with help, and only if someone hands them the win.

WTF

GrandAdm Thrawn · 27 Nov 2006, 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chika

This entire round has been a giant dissappointment. The winners were determined pre-round. Two of the top alliances MERGED and are still ranked lower than 50ish exil members. Then another "top" alliance comes on the boards and proclaims that they will fight these 50 members, but only with help, and only if someone hands them the win.

WTF

chickens everywhere (and ducks for that matter)

LynchMob · 27 Nov 2006, 01:19

OMgels dont need ND to win the round.. If somebody would do some organisation within the furious-dum(om)jels maybe they could take exil out with their already assembled block? OFC i have no clue as to what Vision and TOF have plans for but makes sense the FOTOFVSN block could easily take on such a task.

and btw /me laughs at the quack quack clan.

Tomkat · 27 Nov 2006, 01:29

I don't understand how Angryduck hasn't even been in ND for a complete round, yet is making "official proposals" on behalf of the entire alliance. And not even very sensible proposals, at that.