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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 23:38   #1
Chika
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OK. Newdawn

Alright, I don't want this thread to come off as negative, but it just keeps itching at me.
People keep saying that ND improved so much this round, but in reality, they haven't. All they have shown is that without proper incoming and the majority of its members playing the strongest race, that they can grow and save resources.
:|
They brag about fighting reunion, when reunion is a new command freshly put together, and doing a good job fighting ND back. In addition Reunions core was very small, so those 98 or so members they had at one point weren't even part of thier plan for the round, and technically have no impact on thier performance during the round. They came from 7th to 3rd.
But this thread isn't about Reunion. Its about ND. First night of proper incoming,
down 10%. Or some ridiculous # like that. Not defending its top members, NONE of them. Sure we all run out of defence, but one guy(s) gets covered. Then to top it off, they had resources to put up a fight, and they just chose to sit on them for no particular reason. THEN HC publically surrendered his alliances soul by saying that they were getting slaughtered, and then they chose to hit the allaince below them because of idiocy? or some crap. I don't know if the community is blind or not, but if ND "rocked" this round, it says a huge statement about the quality of gameplay in PA these days. Its sort of like your worst team being the best because everyone good left or died. They aren't any better, just the best out of the remaining lot. If you catch my drift.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 23:43   #2
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Re: OK. Newdawn

So, you are saying that if we die we are better than we are now?
Ty very much sir!
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 23:45   #3
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteInMetz
So, you are saying that if we die we are better than we are now?
Ty very much sir!
No, I'm saying if you die TOF is the NEXT BEST THING.
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Unread 12 Sep 2005, 23:47   #4
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
No, I'm saying if you die TOF is the NEXT BEST THING.
Clearly you havent looked at the rankings lately.. last time i looked Reunion was still over ToF...
But what are you complaining about really, i dont get it..
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 00:14   #5
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Re: OK. Newdawn

I think the point he's making, that of the alliances expected to do well this round, only 2 remain, so is ND #2 by default, or because they have improved? (again, that's my interpretation of Chika's question...not going to have an opinion on this thread until I read some opinions and have enough info to base an opinion on)
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 00:17   #6
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Re: OK. Newdawn

So basicly, what you are saying, that last round Angels wasnt quality? This round ND isnt quality?
If i recall correct, i remember us having by far the highest average score for a good part of the round..
Untill we got many more members..

Edit: I dont mean to be nasty or anything, but i really dont get the point of this thread :S
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 00:45   #7
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Alright, I don't want this thread to come off as negative, but it just keeps itching at me.

.
What a retarded post! I suggest you delete your post if this is the case. All i see are feeble statements that are having a go at ND. If you are the 1up propaganda puppet then it's about time they brought back Hicks
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 01:08   #8
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Re: OK. Newdawn

ibtl
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 01:12   #9
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torz
What a retarded post! I suggest you delete your post if this is the case. All i see are feeble statements that are having a go at ND. If you are the 1up propaganda puppet then it's about time they brought back Hicks
This thread has nothing to do with 1up.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 01:12   #10
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Hi chika.


Yes. That's right. We don't cover our members.

You're absolutely correct... Reunion are a punch of pansies which are not worth hitting.

Yep, I agree. We are #2 by default despite Reunion taking in a couple of decent BGs with decent players in em.

Chika ftw.

Btw, did someone piss on your mushrooms today or summit?

(please please please someone note that there was a large amount of sarcasm dripping off this post =/ )
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 01:20   #11
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteInMetz
So basicly, what you are saying, that last round Angels wasnt quality? This round ND isnt quality?
If i recall correct, i remember us having by far the highest average score for a good part of the round..
Untill we got many more members..

Edit: I dont mean to be nasty or anything, but i really dont get the point of this thread :S
Angels played thier round last round. If you can recall, ANGELS got that the shit beat out of them at one point, and then they "bounced" back. They took thir tough incoming in stride. ND on the other hand, sort of didn't.
No i don't dislike ND, no I am not having a "go" at ND. I have many friends there.
But you guys keep saying comments like "If i recall correct, i remember us having by far the highest average score for a good part of the round."
YOU DIDN"T HAVE PROPER INCOMING. At all, we can all agree on that, certainly you didn't have more than LCH, because LCH was being attacked by 1up. Certainly you didn't have more than 1up, because 1up was being attacked by 3 alliances.
Not saying that ND don't have quality, but just look at how they performed when they got atatcked. Hc's went inactive, a world of excuses etc. Angry hit it right on the head. Is ND any different from last round? NO. Look at NOS (maybe not the best example?) Top 3 now top nothing. Same players. "Its a summer round" they may say. yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 01:30   #12
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
(please please please someone note that there was a large amount of sarcasm dripping off this post =/ )
Oh it was positively ooozing
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 01:44   #13
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Re: OK. Newdawn

All I can see is that ND are buckling under like a straw being mauled by a falling sky scraper.

Talk politics with someone who cares, but you are pretty useless what opposition is concerned

sorry
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 01:46   #14
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Idler
All I can see is that ND are buckling under like a straw being mauled by a falling sky scraper.

Talk politics with someone who cares, but you are pretty useless what opposition is concerned

sorry
And I imagine there would be some exilition players who might have said the same about 1up during a certain round. Next?
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 01:49   #15
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
And I imagine there would be some exilition players who might have said the same about 1up during a certain round. Next?

what pile of dung were you hiding under?

Step up to the plate and grab that history book lad!
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 02:06   #16
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Alright, I don't want this thread to come off as negative, but it just keeps itching at me.
Go see a doctor, I don't think pa or any thread can cure whatever is causing your itch.

Quote:
People keep saying that ND improved so much this round, but in reality, they haven't. All they have shown is that without proper incoming and the majority of its members playing the strongest race, that they can grow and save resources.
:|
That is your opinion, no need to generalise for the entire community when YOU think we haven't improved. We went from a small ND core without any high expectations of this round to a larger memberbase and a gr8 average score. To say we were just cruising without proper inc and stockpiling resources is too easy and a blow below the waist. If you don't like our tactics that's fine, but we improved our attacking efficiency (thx loads Gate) and our defense abilities were as good as the past rounds.

Quote:
They brag about fighting reunion, when reunion is a new command freshly put together, and doing a good job fighting ND back. In addition Reunions core was very small, so those 98 or so members they had at one point weren't even part of thier plan for the round, and technically have no impact on thier performance during the round. They came from 7th to 3rd.
Newsflash: ND command was new aswell, with probably as much experience as Reunion. I don't like to brag personally, but I think we did fairly well giving Reunion a fight which appeared to turn into our favour. And where did ND come from? We came from outside top 10, but again I don't like to brag.

Quote:
But this thread isn't about Reunion. Its about ND. First night of proper incoming,
down 10%. Or some ridiculous # like that. Not defending its top members, NONE of them. Sure we all run out of defence, but one guy(s) gets covered. Then to top it off, they had resources to put up a fight, and they just chose to sit on them for no particular reason. THEN HC publically surrendered his alliances soul by saying that they were getting slaughtered, and then they chose to hit the allaince below them because of idiocy? or some crap.
Proper incoming it was, 350+ incoming fleets. Lets do some math, 100 ND members = 300 fleets maximum. 1 attackfleet each is 100 outgoing (if every member claimed a target). That leaves 200 possible defense fleets (again if every single member is available for defense). Hmmm math tells me we were heavily outgunned and therefor lost a grand total of 10% first night.
Some of us had indeed resources stockpiled, nothing wrong with that since their value forced them to do so to prevent not being able to claim certain targets. When mayhem occured it was too late, we were caught by surprise simple as that.
About the slaughter, well yes we were getting our pants spanked off but first raped right through them. We were on our own to fight the largest force in the game who caught us by surprise and to deal with an alliance slightly behind us who are napped to the #1 alliance. Boxed in, sandwiched whatever you prefer but no chance for us to a fair fight for #1 spot. Would it be honourable to ignore the napped alliance sitting on third and keep fighting an impossible battle for first which would lead to total destruction into oblivion? Perhaps, but we are ND and surely like to end this round with a nice and fair rank like every other alliance would. So without hopes for #1 and trying to secure #2 is a valid and logical decision which I am glad HC decided.

Quote:
I don't know if the community is blind or not, but if ND "rocked" this round, it says a huge statement about the quality of gameplay in PA these days. Its sort of like your worst team being the best because everyone good left or died. They aren't any better, just the best out of the remaining lot. If you catch my drift.
Heh I don't think it's wise to insult the community, but your opinion of ND is noted. But you should understand that it's not you who is there for the community, but the community is there for you instead. If you don't like the community, draw your own conclusions but ND will not leave this game because you think we are incompetent and are the worst team leftover. We like this game and we make mistakes like everyone else, as long as we learn from them and keep having fun the entire community can grow and might give you a somewhat more challenge in your view probably.
You are not a bad guy Chika, but frankly I was sort of disappointed in your views towards ND and the community. Instead of bringing your negativism you could have made your point with less insulting towards ND and the entire pa community.

Peace
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 02:08   #17
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
This thread has nothing to do with 1up.
Indeed. You just want to grow some e-penis.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 02:14   #18
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
No, I'm saying if you die TOF is the NEXT BEST THING.
[sarcasm]And we can't have that now can we?[/sarcasm]
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 02:56   #19
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Re: OK. Newdawn

and as i said earlier.. I still dont get the point of this thread..
Care to explain Chika?
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 02:57   #20
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
But you guys keep saying comments like "If i recall correct, i remember us having by far the highest average score for a good part of the round."
YOU DIDN"T HAVE PROPER INCOMING.
I kinda remember angels in the same position, except that they were napped to #1..
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 03:05   #21
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Re: OK. Newdawn

well I personally believe that ND Command made the best of a negative situation to begin with this round, with the loss of players, early coords leak, and the re-organization of their command structure. They got what they got on pure effort, as opposed to astute political play and experience, and that's not neccesarily a bad thing (new blood can sometimes be the perfect prescription..remember, if you do what you've done, you'll get what you've gotten) , as it may have been the infusion ND needed to take the next step in their growth, or move to the next level. (This was also one of the determining factors in my moving on, as I honestly felt I'd done what I could for ND, and my political views and stubborness was not neccesarily in their best interest... not that I feel I did a bad job, in contrast...I think I did a lot to help ND improve) One thing that always stays the same, is that things always change, and ND is a good example of that cliche... they needed a different look, as 3-4 rounds of the same thing was wearing on their membership, and in turn, the Community's view of them.

I think they've done ok as far as their members average score, and whether it was due to a lack of proper incoming, or better effort on attacks, or a combination of a number of things, they should be proud of their performance this round, they sit at #2, they haven't folded.....so it can't be a bad thing.

I do believe the Command made some minor rookie mistakes, but we all make mistakes, I make them, as does everyone here. Most of these things can be debated, and in the end, they are the #2 alliance, so debating does nothing to change their rank. If their early fence sitting got them clear to land successful attacks, who's to say it's a bad thing , not my style personally, but it seems to have worked for them, as it has for Angels, WP, NoS in the past.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 03:13   #22
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Re: OK. Newdawn

OK in general i'm going to agree with Chika.
I've been part of NewDawn for a long time & no I don't think NewDawn improved a ton this rnd.

Early on the main thing that improved about NewDawn was our political situation.
For the first time in several rounds we weren't seen as 1up muppets at the start of the round & so we weren't hit early & often by the opposition block.
We came into this round more prepared then we generally do, we were down to our small core, we did our homework & we came in intending to prove that we were going to survive & do well.
We did something NewDawn never does, we had a good start.

Did we improve a ton? No not really, we had less incoming then we've had the last few rounds. We were better prepared & we were more a little more active, since we all felt we had something to prove.

Did we fold when 1up started hitting us?
Yeah we pretty much did.

I was disappointed in our response to 1up, but seeing as I was at least partially responsible for our lack of response, I can at least understand it.

By the time 1up started hitting us we were largely burned out, bored & demoralized.
Our war with reunion has gotta be the most boring war I've ever had the misfortune to be a part of. (well right up there with ND vs HR in rnd 12) It dragged on so long that they had long since run out of good targets to hit. Boredom & inactivity were setting in.

Realistically, we knew we were toast the minute LCH fell apart.
I went from looking forward to organizing attacks on 1up, to being very apathetic about it in general & in the end never organized a single raid on them.

We were in the unfortunate position of having all of our possible allies fall apart & being hit by the 1st & 3rd largest alliances at once.
Everyone knew the inevitable outcome of that situation & our will to continue to fight was sapped by being in a no win situation.


Now the important thing missing about all of this is expectations.

NewDawn came into this round being written off, new HC, the pre-round G-II split.
If you go look at the top 10 alliance prediction lists, you won't see NewDawn in very many lists & I don't think you'll find us in anyones top 5.

So somehow during this round NewDawn went from not being expected to finish in the top ten, to ending up as the only hope left to stop 1up from another win.


Did ND improve a bunch this round? No not really.
Did ND fold to easy under pressure? Yes we certainly did.
Did ND exceed expectations this round? Damn right.

All in all i'm proud of the round NewDawn has had.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 03:20   #23
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinho
Proper incoming it was, 350+ incoming fleets. Lets do some math, 100 ND members = 300 fleets maximum. 1 attackfleet each is 100 outgoing (if every member claimed a target). That leaves 200 possible defense fleets (again if every single member is available for defense). Hmmm math tells me we were heavily outgunned and therefor lost a grand total of 10% first night..
Are you seriously expecting us to believe you were facing over 350 silmultaneous incoming fleets? Are you sure this figure isn't just arrived at by counting the number of lines seen via the defense relay bot, including duplicate reports?
Even with the heaviest combined attacks by LCH, Insomnia and Hydra, we never saw more than ~250 attacking fleets in one night, spread out over many ticks. Now you're claiming that every single 1up and Reunion member can spare 2 attack fleets to send at ND. Including our scanners and inactive players?
Now in the unique position I'm in, I can tell you that a grand total of 96 targets/waves were taken by 1up members through our normal target bot on the night in question. I'm aware of one BG that doesn't claim through this bot, but the majority of our members did. Say 125 incoming 1up fleets then. Where is this 350 figure coming from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinho
When mayhem occured it was too late, we were caught by surprise simple as that.
You made the first move to attack 1up, and our retaliation was a surprise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinho
Some of us had indeed resources stockpiled, nothing wrong with that since their value forced them to do so to prevent not being able to claim certain targets.
And here's me thinking that alliances at war (especially with a larger opponent) would be gathering all possible available fleets. Having your large planets stocking resources so they can hit much smaller (easier?) targets seems a little... selfish to me. There are plenty of 1up planets that can be hit by anyone in the game, and yet you're saying ND members chose to artificially lower their value in order to hit the lower level of their bash limit. Even if this wasn't the case, why weren't those stocked resources being spent on def ships to cover calls with one fleet instead of two? Does that fit into your maths?

This isn't week one guys. Saving a couple of days resources may stop a fleet also worth a couple of days income at tick 200, but here at PT1200 you're facing incomings worth several hundred or million pts of value. And its likely there will be waves of different class inbound too. What is stockpiling meant to achieve again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinho
Would it be honourable to ignore the napped alliance sitting on third and keep fighting an impossible battle for first which would lead to total destruction into oblivion? Perhaps, but we are ND and surely like to end this round with a nice and fair rank like every other alliance would.
Well the 'honourable' thing would have been to attack 1up and try to promote some competition this round, which you did. Rolling over and admitting defeat after your first two nights of real war in this war game isn't so much. What did 1up do when outnumbered and outgunned? I remember our HC playing the politics in order to keep us in the game, rather than surrendering.

Can you tell me why ND deserve this 2nd place ranking after a round of sitting on the sidelines and growing fat without any real inbound for the first 900 ticks? In fact the only thing separating you from this standard Wolfpack strategy is getting enough balls to finally hit 1up and at least attempt to finish first.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 03:23   #24
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
They brag about fighting reunion, when reunion is a new command freshly put together, and doing a good job fighting ND back.
What about the fact that 3/4 NewDawn HC's are new command?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
In addition Reunions core was very small, so those 98 or so members they had at one point weren't even part of thier plan for the round, and technically have no impact on thier performance during the round. They came from 7th to 3rd.
NewDawn member base started with 40+ members, did you want us to just reject every WP member and every Hydra member and every SiN planet and every dS planet? NewDawn wants to be helpful to the Planetarion community and give decent players who have lost their alliance a place to keep playing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
First night of proper incoming, down 10%. Or some ridiculous # like that. Not defending its top members, NONE of them. Sure we all run out of defence, but one guy(s) gets covered. Then to top it off, they had resources to put up a fight, and they just chose to sit on them for no particular reason. THEN HC publically surrendered his alliances soul by saying that they were getting slaughtered, and then they chose to hit the allaince below them because of idiocy? or some crap. I don't know if the community is blind or not, but if ND "rocked" this round, it says a huge statement about the quality of gameplay in PA these days. Its sort of like your worst team being the best because everyone good left or died. They aren't any better, just the best out of the remaining lot. If you catch my drift.
tbh, with Chika's comments NewDawn basically aren't good. Just because ND are rank #2, doesn't mean anything. Then who is good? Well clearly 1up is, let's just put them in that category cuz we can. Next, which ally other than 1up is better than NewDawn? No one! At least that's what chika has said. Also saying it's because there aren't any decent alliances left. Well then ok, there isn't much competition for NewDawn. Maybe it does say a bit "about the quality of gameplay in PA these days." I don't know what you want then Chika? Do you want NewDawn to quit? Just because 1up are stronger than us or we don't have much of a chance at #1 spot or we are getting attacked by both Reunion and 1up or we have more members in our alliance than our HC/officers can handle appropriately we should be ashamed or something? We shouldn't get credit for still playing? Yes WP and LCH and Hydra were quite good alliances. Not to be crude, but they aren't here anymore and most likely for something similar to the reasons above.

I can honestly admit that NewDawn at the moment is not stronger than 1up. I mean it's obvious. With Reunion on your side and not much help/cooperation from the lower ranked alliances we especially don't have a chance at #1. 1up is an alliance designed for good performance at a 80+ member base, NewDawn was initially designed for good performance at a 40+ member base. So in my opinion, given our 40 member core, I'd say they've all played pretty damn well.

Please tell me what you're trying to get at chika. Is this really about NewDawn or is it the fact that everyone else is giving up?
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 03:35   #25
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Re: OK. Newdawn

I donno about the figure 350 that Marinho gave, but a *real* figure would be 127 fleets over 5 ticks.

I personally think ND has done wonderfully this round as far as the goals of the HC for this round were concerned.

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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 03:41   #26
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtothez

You made the first move to attack 1up, and our retaliation was a surprise?
OK I keep hearing this justification from 1up & I've just gotta call bullshit on it.

It's typical 1up propoganda with no basis in reality.

For several nights we were hitting Reunion & being hit by Reunion, with anywhere from 5-10 NewDawn planets getting hit by 1up every night in there.

Finally one night we had 2 top 50 planets get 5+ waves from 1up.

So the next night a gal raid was arranged on a gal that happened to have a couple of 1up planets in it. (yes Rob this was you) We didn't focus on the 1up planets, we just didn't leave them out of it.

So after several nights of ever increasing hostiles from 1up we hit 2 1up planets & 1up uses this as justification for an all out assault on NewDawn.

I don't begrudge 1up hitting us, we all knew it was inevitable & I have no hard feelings about it at all.

Just please, stop trying to claim we started it.

It was simply 1up removing the last obstacle they had to insure a victory, you don't need any other justification then that, so why bother?
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 04:03   #27
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtothez
Are you seriously expecting us to believe you were facing over 350 silmultaneous incoming fleets? Are you sure this figure isn't just arrived at by counting the number of lines seen via the defense relay bot, including duplicate reports?
Even with the heaviest combined attacks by LCH, Insomnia and Hydra, we never saw more than ~250 attacking fleets in one night, spread out over many ticks. Now you're claiming that every single 1up and Reunion member can spare 2 attack fleets to send at ND. Including our scanners and inactive players?
Now in the unique position I'm in, I can tell you that a grand total of 96 targets/waves were taken by 1up members through our normal target bot on the night in question. I'm aware of one BG that doesn't claim through this bot, but the majority of our members did. Say 125 incoming 1up fleets then. Where is this 350 figure coming from?
I am not present in the defense channel, but this figure I got told was true. Perhaps overaggagerated, but fact was we had more incoming fleets then we had fleets ourselves hence I used the word outgunned.

Quote:
You made the first move to attack 1up, and our retaliation was a surprise?
The surprise was actually ND being left alone to face 1up after the disbanding of lch Insomnia Hydra making ND the one and only target for 1up. So we hit a few 1up planets, fair enough if you call that a declaration of war which came right on time for 1up to finally go out full throttle on ND.

Quote:
And here's me thinking that alliances at war (especially with a larger opponent) would be gathering all possible available fleets. Having your large planets stocking resources so they can hit much smaller (easier?) targets seems a little... selfish to me. There are plenty of 1up planets that can be hit by anyone in the game, and yet you're saying ND members chose to artificially lower their value in order to hit the lower level of their bash limit. Even if this wasn't the case, why weren't those stocked resources being spent on def ships to cover calls with one fleet instead of two? Does that fit into your maths?
We couldn't even prepare proper for the battle since we were not facing 1up alone, you make it sound we were hit by 1up alone while the rest watching the battle in their comfy chair eating chips and peanuts. At that time we had a large amount of top planets, I never stated they were all stockpiling, some did. Investing all stockpiled resources for defense puposes? Sounds like a nice idea, but we still would like to attack on ocasion. The problem wasn't our "value", the problem was getting even more value limiting score opportunities. And being able to defend calls with 1 fleet instead of 2 fleets never could have been the case for ND simply b/c if that would have occured we would have allready won this round.


Quote:
Well the 'honourable' thing would have been to attack 1up and try to promote some competition this round, which you did. Rolling over and admitting defeat after your first two nights of real war in this war game isn't so much. What did 1up do when outnumbered and outgunned? I remember our HC playing the politics in order to keep us in the game, rather than surrendering.
Cheers for trying to compare ND and 1up on even foot, but tbh that's just not realistic as our command doesn't have 1up's experience. We have surrendered, but we haven't stop fighting for our position. The warfront has changed that's all weather you like it or not.

Quote:
Can you tell me why ND deserve this 2nd place ranking after a round of sitting on the sidelines and growing fat without any real inbound for the first 900 ticks? In fact the only thing separating you from this standard Wolfpack strategy is getting enough balls to finally hit 1up and at least attempt to finish first.
I think we deserve this rank because we haven't forfitted as an aliance fighting for our rank and trying to protect it. Some may have seen us rather go out with a bang on 1up while reunion leeching our roids and overtake us. ND didn't like that scenario so we fight a different war.
You rather see Reunion finish 2nd since it's your trusted ally this round fair enough, but don't expect us to suicide on something we cannot beat. Certainly not with the "extra" incoming we got.

PS sorry I roided you
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 04:31   #28
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Re: OK. Newdawn

I've heard and talked too many Newdawners quitting the round because they felt that the game was shit and that they never got defence from their alliance. Makes me wonder what really is going on.

But hey, as long as Newdawn can find someone small enough for them to bash again, I guess they can do whatever they want.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 04:33   #29
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Hello, my name is Troll and I hate LCH

The DLR point of view

I am also an ND member and the HC of DLR. My counter parts in DLR also do not love LCH but to be fair only I really, really hate them. Now because of this, our political weight and our fleets tend to end up going in the general direction of LCH planets. Now to be fair LCH is nothing like EXI, whom for hate is clearly not a strong enough word, but I we have been at war in someway or another for quite some time with LCH (I consider LCH and ELY like Fury Eclipse 1up) I also having a certain level of respect for my counter parts on the evil side of PA as they have roided me down and I have fleet caught and roided there top planets in previous rounds. Where does this all fit in to the Thread I bet some of you are asking. Well I suppose it has something to do with the lack of action against 1up. From the early going DLR hit LCH and then LCH got ND to make us stop, Then 1up looked like they might be in trouble so we went out and whacked some more LCH. I think this is how skyhead came to the conclusion that we were working for 1 up but in truth we just picked the best LCH targets and hit them. We did this in order to try and maintain the balance the round appeared to have, it was also a favourable postion for ND to be in if it was maintained.

Did I think LCH would fold? HELLS NO! But when they did and it was time to unleash the wrath of god on 1up we found ourselves in the most peculiar situation. Much like Grog stated the war with Reunion was where we all got bored and basically stopped working as a unit. DLR since R4 has been the special Ops of ND. We stopped playing, we we’re bored, fat, inactive planets sitting around for someone to pick off. ND’s top BC (Gate for whom I have the deepest respect for) and focal point for all non DLR hits also was suffering from burn out and the start of school. Everything was perfect for the destruction of ND, for the card house to fall and everyone fall with it.

Then it came. I will never forget looking at my screen and seeing 1up co ords raining down on me like a Vancouver fall day. I thought to myself jesus Christ what is 1 up doing. Then I saw the defense channel and right away I just sent my fleets off to defend and gave my assessment of the situation. We are all going to DIE. Well it wasn’t quite that dramatic but it was definitely ominous. 1 up is a class act organization I’ve often referred to Sid and his commanders as the machine. When the machine starts up and focuses on a single target that target is just toast. ND was not and is not ready to take on 1up in any shape or form, at least not heads up. We are able to fight a decent last battle with Reunion. This is HC’s opinion and I agree with it whole heartedly. ND made a mistake, DLR made a tactical error. It’s all going down the toilet but ND hasn’t folded.

I never wanted more than 50 people in ND, It would have been nice to of stayed there. HC went for more people to take us to that next level and we were not ready for it. We’re not on par with the LCH’s EXI’s and 1ups of PA. We are learning however, and one round, perhaps not the next one or the round after, but sometime in the future ND will be held in the same regard as the elite alliances in PA. However they need to take this beating learn from it, find the good members remove the bad and stay at a level in which they can excel and from there move onward into the future.

So in conclusion, ND is better than it was last round, they over extended and fell on there face. OUR BAD. Chikka stop rubbing it in we know it already.

Oh and DLR will never EVER again go with a race that can’t kill, MAN it was nice for roiding but it’s just not our style.

/me gets off soap box

OH and ps 1up Don’t try and blame DLR for your hit on ND we never launched on a you guys and if it was some devious political spin to come out with a DLR has such and such CR prelaunched on rob in order to cause strife between us and command well you just looked liked clowns. Albeit clowns taking our roids while hitting us with seltzer water and cream pies

CHEERS
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 04:47   #30
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinho
Heh I don't think it's wise to insult the community, but your opinion of ND is noted. But you should understand that it's not you who is there for the community, but the community is there for you instead. If you don't like the community, draw your own conclusions but ND will not leave this game because you think we are incompetent and are the worst team leftover. We like this game and we make mistakes like everyone else, as long as we learn from them and keep having fun the entire community can grow and might give you a somewhat more challenge in your view probably.
You are not a bad guy Chika, but frankly I was sort of disappointed in your views towards ND and the community. Instead of bringing your negativism you could have made your point with less insulting towards ND and the entire pa community.

Peace
Sigh, i never insulted the community. I didn't insult anyone. Please do not try to gain the community on your side, by lying and saying I insulted them. hehe
To be clear: I LOVE THE ****ING COMMUNITY. THATS WHY I PLAY FOR OVER 4 YEARS
Now that its out and clear in the open.
ND: This thread was not meant as anti ND. Its a member of the community (ding ding ding!!! theres that word again!!!!2) voicing his opinion. It has been so wide spread that ND did so awsome, that at 0200 in the morning at work on my mid watch, I figured that it merited a thread. ND didn't have proper incoming. We all agree on this. ND majority played the strongest race. We all agree on this. Right? You guys made no real improvements as far as gameplay. i told fish personnally that ND did a good job this round. IN POLITICS. They avoided real incoming for most of the round, and saved resources (which is no problem, but when you don't use them :rolleseyes). Then when real incoming came, that was it. Then a public "we've been ****ed" from the HC. That personally kind of ticked me off. As I have played along side ND for quite a few rounds now, and some of my best Buddy pack m8's are ND. Hopefully that clears up any "chika hates ND".
The point of this thread is to put it out there clearly. ND did nothing to deserve #2. What did ND do? "Gate did better attacks" You had the strongest race. All caths had to do early was launch. What exactly was he doing? Holding scheduled tp's? Picking targets for the entire ally. Gaining intel on all of ND's targets every night to ensure the maximum amount of waves launching? Probably not. ND's success has only been measured by its own members. My measure is that you did nothing special. Yes, you did surpass your expectations. You aimed low.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 04:55   #31
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
What exactly was he doing? Holding scheduled tp's? Picking targets for the entire ally. Gaining intel on all of ND's targets every night to ensure the maximum amount of waves launching? Probably not.
actually thats pretty much what he did

oh and we didn't aim low, don't be a fool we were a decimated mid level alliance our aim was to survive with a core and have a good go at it for avg score. Our mistake was aiming too high after that. Chika seriously man THINK
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 05:21   #32
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I've heard and talked too many Newdawners quitting the round because they felt that the game was shit and that they never got defence from their alliance. Makes me wonder what really is going on.

But hey, as long as Newdawn can find someone small enough for them to bash again, I guess they can do whatever they want.
Never get defense from their alliance boohoo, they are so misled by ND that they would cover them every single time they have incoming. Personally I am not aware of those members and if there are they sound like alliance hoppers instead of valueable ND-ers who won't quit just because they couldn't be covered.
So we bash teh little ones? Funny man you are and clueless the same time. Just because we are ranked 2 atm, doesn't mean hitting any alliance under us is considered bashing. In that case 1up is ND bashers and would we be whining.....but we don't.
Since you seem to know so much about our overall memberbase, could you reveal your true identity as I am looking for a silly spy.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 05:31   #33
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Sigh, i never insulted the community. I didn't insult anyone. Please do not try to gain the community on your side, by lying and saying I insulted them. hehe
To be clear: I LOVE THE ****ING COMMUNITY. THATS WHY I PLAY FOR OVER 4 YEARS
Now that its out and clear in the open.
Perhaps I read something wrong:

Quote:
I don't know if the community is blind or not, but if ND "rocked" this round, it says a huge statement about the quality of gameplay in PA these days.
Clearly you don't like the quality of PA and consider us blind for not sharing your views, perhaps it's time you find another game then?

Quote:
The point of this thread is to put it out there clearly. ND did nothing to deserve #2. What did ND do? "Gate did better attacks" You had the strongest race. All caths had to do early was launch. What exactly was he doing? Holding scheduled tp's? Picking targets for the entire ally. Gaining intel on all of ND's targets every night to ensure the maximum amount of waves launching? Probably not. ND's success has only been measured by its own members. My measure is that you did nothing special. Yes, you did surpass your expectations. You aimed low.
Sounds like you are referring our goals were to finish first. Don't make me laugh, we all know we had zero expectations of this round, so yes we surpassed that ourselves. We aimed low? I don't think so, starting outside top 10 we aimed higher then we thought were possible
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 06:35   #34
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I've heard and talked too many Newdawners quitting the round because they felt that the game was shit and that they never got defence from their alliance. Makes me wonder what really is going on.

But hey, as long as Newdawn can find someone small enough for them to bash again, I guess they can do whatever they want.
I bet you have. The definition of too many does not extend to the numbers within the range of 2-4 fyi. And tbh, anyone who quits ND over that silly reason was never really ND to begin with.

What really is going on? You don't get it then do ya... ND plays as a community... They play together, goof off, kick some arse, and have mashed potatos for supper. These are the folk who realize that: "oh looky! this is in fact a game! go figure!" and they don't get worked up about it. If I don't get def from ND, I don't really care. I'm sure others in ND would say the same.

It's ND's spirit, and dedication to the alliance that has kept them around since R1. But kargool, given the current state of things... This isn't something I'd expect you to know much about. Sorry if that seems harsh, but... I think your sniping has gone far enough.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 07:44   #35
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Re: OK. Newdawn

round 9, 10, 10.5 ND's strenght was clearly defending it's members, above all else, and at that time the game dynamics worked with that particular philosophy. things changed in round 11, and the entire universe had issues defending members, so those of you who whine because you get no defense, blow me

there are always certain situations where certain members who do their part and defend end up getting screwed, it happens, and it sucks, but overall alliances are better off being offensive in nature and everyone and their dog knows that.... roids are too easy to cap to get worked up about a lack of defense.

No one can fault Gate for the effort he put into ND. From someone that knows about long hours in ND Officer rooms, believe me, it takes commitment to do what he did, and he should be commended for his effort, and at the end of the day, thats what ND is all about. People caring about their alliance members, genuinly caring. It's one of the things that endears ND to it's Community, and for those of you who have never experienced that in a gaming community, you've truly missed out. Gate ofcourse isn't the only ND Officer to care, and Actually bleed ND, there are others, Marinho, Barrow, to name 2 that come right to mind (please don't feel bad if I didn't mention you, it's not meant as a blow off)

I think ND improved on attack activity this round, possibly because they were not inundated from the start with massive incoming as we had been in previous rounds. (much easier to stay active and motivated when your not getting hammered every night) I also think they learned a valuable lesson politically. (in earlier rounds we would simply pick some asshole alliance and go after them from the start, and I'm not sure this rounds approach was an improvement, but not for me to say any longer)

In my opinion, looking from the outside in, I see places where ND improved (attacks) , and places where they took 2 steps back (politics, recruiting for example) Just wondering where that original 50 members would be right now score/average wise, talented players, good skills, prolly much like ToT last round. I think they did bite off more than they could chew, got a bit seduced by rank (something that in the early days ND cared less about) All in all I think ND made some strides and learned some needed lessons (the kind of lessons you have to learn, not be told)
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 08:24   #36
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtothez
Are you seriously expecting us to believe you were facing over 350 silmultaneous incoming fleets? Are you sure this figure isn't just arrived at by counting the number of lines seen via the defense relay bot, including duplicate reports?
I believe he's counting duplicate reports here, I know my count on one night exceeded 300, but there were plenty of duplicate reports (such as fish' bunch of 45k+ fake CR/BS waves reported several times at the beginning of the night)

Quote:
Even with the heaviest combined attacks by LCH, Insomnia and Hydra, we never saw more than ~250 attacking fleets in one night, spread out over many ticks. Now you're claiming that every single 1up and Reunion member can spare 2 attack fleets to send at ND. Including our scanners and inactive players?
That said, some 1up would be hitting us 3, 4, 5+ times a night simply by being there to recall/relaunch, faking etc.

Quote:
You made the first move to attack 1up, and our retaliation was a surprise?
We did? We'd spent time trying to gather support for such a push, but were turned down by everyone until 1up hit us, when 1 alliance kindly offered to help us out.

Quote:
Rolling over and admitting defeat after your first two nights of real war in this war game isn't so much. What did 1up do when outnumbered and outgunned? I remember our HC playing the politics in order to keep us in the game, rather than surrendering.
That said, Hydra sounded like they were doing an utterly useless job of hitting 1up most of teh time, and were instead hitting gals; but yes, 1up are better than us.

I believe Fish' choice was to stop wasting fleets (not reinforcing a failure...) by attacking large 1up planets which in most cases would be defended, instead disrupting reunion's attacks by hitting them, and fighting for second place instead. I don't think that fighting a lost war would have made sense; bear in mind, ND attack HC [me \o/] had gone inactive about 2 days before 1up hit us, and quit PA about 2 days after, and because of my illness, I hadn't been in a fit state to leave things in the best possible state.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 08:47   #37
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Re: OK. Newdawn

While I dont think all the decisions ND have made this round have been the best for the members, I do think it was a very smart move to target Reunion rather than 1up during the current war.

Quite simple really, attack 1up and sap there defence fleets, and not gain anywhere near as many roids as they will lose due to the incomming? or attack reunion and gain a sizable amount off them, to atleast partially offset the losses to 1up, and in doing so secure there #2 position?

I dont know anyone who is in a command position and would have chosen anything differently about hitting 1up during this war........ and tbh if they did, then they shouldnt be in a position of command where they can fk things up that much.


I think part of ND's problem is simply that they've had a long and tiring round (if you put effort into it, then every round is tiring)
During the first part of the round when they would usually have a bad start, and usually get hit by every man and his dog. I think they were probably expecting it....... but only it didnt happen. so instead of having to defend nonstop, they could put more effort into attacking, and because they havent had as much incomming as they are used to. they can build up a nice and impressive average.

The problem for them was: By the time they actually have a real war to fight, most of them have had enough of the round, and dont have the energy to fight a war on 2 fronts.


ND's position this round was pretty much pre-determined to come up against whichever alliance was #1. Had they had 90 members of the same activity as the group they had for the start of this round. then they might have had a shot at being #1.but with the numbers they had, they were pretty much toast.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 08:49   #38
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
So the next night a gal raid was arranged on a gal that happened to have a couple of 1up planets in it. (yes Rob this was you) We didn't focus on the 1up planets, we just didn't leave them out of it.

So after several nights of ever increasing hostiles from 1up we hit 2 1up planets & 1up uses this as justification for an all out assault on NewDawn.

I don't begrudge 1up hitting us, we all knew it was inevitable & I have no hard feelings about it at all.

Just please, stop trying to claim we started it.

It was simply 1up removing the last obstacle they had to insure a victory, you don't need any other justification then that, so why bother?
This all sounds that you or some of you (DLR?) avoided 1up before ?
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 09:31   #39
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Re: OK. Newdawn

What the **** do you want from us exactly? Apart from 1up, there's a whole ****ing list of alliances we've done better than so far. #2 by default maybe, we can't help it if a massive list of people who were slagging us off come tick 1 about our cohesion have ironically fallen apart.

If 1up are lauding up a win despite having a massive headstart every round and having members they can pick and choose and rely on to be there at tickstart, when we have had to pull things together simply to get existing for this round. To be honest there hasn't been much opposition, so damn right as the best alliance they're going to win.

Quite frankly, our chance was in mid-late August. Our HC and 3 of our biggest planets went on holiday all at the same time in that period. From that point onwards, we were ****ed, simply because we needed them to run a campaign against 1up. War in mid September was never a starter considering we have our chief BC on route 1 to being banned from playing PA by his doctor. Am I angry? Yes because it was an opportunity missed, and there was **** all we can do about it, and there are **** all people we can blame for it.

So we can't beat 1up? Put our performance in perspective and engage brain before expecting miracles from us.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 09:35   #40
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteInMetz
I kinda remember angels in the same position, except that they were napped to #1..
Funny how pple need to drag in Angels when we got absolutely nothing to do with this ...

And Angryduck, all I can say is "and here we go again ..."
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 10:23   #41
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
I believe he's counting duplicate reports here, I know my count on one night exceeded 300, but there were plenty of duplicate reports (such as fish' bunch of 45k+ fake CR/BS waves reported several times at the beginning of the night)



That said, some 1up would be hitting us 3, 4, 5+ times a night simply by being there to recall/relaunch, faking etc.


I can agree with this statement. The 320 sounds about accurate counting 1up/reunion. Some 1up did recall/resend like 3 or 4 times.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 10:29   #42
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Re: OK. Newdawn

1up like their fake fleets, I have noticed.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 11:06   #43
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
Funny how pple need to drag in Angels when we got absolutely nothing to do with this ...

And Angryduck, all I can say is "and here we go again ..."
Funny how you allways read what you want, are you saying that Angels wasnt in a similar position as Chika described ND as earlier on?
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 11:31   #44
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteInMetz
Funny how you allways read what you want, are you saying that Angels wasnt in a similar position as Chika described ND as earlier on?
No, but you made it sound like we napped #1 alliance. When we napped Exilition, they weren't even top5, same as Angels. If we knew Exilition would win the round, you think we'd have napped them? The NAP was based on 1 and 1 single reason ... convenience. And this because we shared alot of buddypacks, hence making it "normal" not to hit eachother as we shared most galaxies.

And similar position? Not really, Angels for instance never blocked or did joined attacks (but those very nights in the block with LCH). But then again, it seems that issue has been and will be discussed about alot so who am I, Angels HC, to tell you this when entire AD thinks they know it better?
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 11:33   #45
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Re: OK. Newdawn

ND didn't go from a bunch of noobs to a bunch of elite players this round. We did improve in a number of ways:

1) preparation - Gate and Grog were very good at helping us prepare, and we started with about 48% cath, 48% xan. Which helps us to
2) Good start. In the last few rounds we have been awful at the start, so it was refreshing to see us doing well at the beginning.
3) Top planets - We don't normally hold many top planets for a good part of the round, for a big chunk of this round Lok, Nef, McFun, Myself, harv and yada have been in and out of the t10. This is partly due to
4) Politics - We stayed away from the early wars and collected plenty of roids. Very shameful of us I know, having this freedom also improved
5) attacks - we were able to experiment with different options a bit, to see how we worked best. This is pretty much all down to Gate (aswell as DLR running their own raids).

We are not at the level of 1up, and certainly not at the level of reunion/1up.

We made some political errors, like 1up, we expected a 3 way war - Insomnia/ND V Hydra/LCH V 1up/Reunion, however, we didn't really have many plans when this didn't happen.

When everyone collapsed, we didn't have any options left, we knew it was coming, and so now we will secure 2nd. And so far, we've done a good job of it.

Yes, we have improved, but not to the level of alliances such as 1up and Exilition.

One final thing, if I told you at PT0, when we had our new HC, without G-II, without a lot of other members, we would end 2nd, what would you have said back?
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 12:14   #46
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Re: OK. Newdawn

its a good and valid tactic, makes defending hellish
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 12:33   #47
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
So the next night a gal raid was arranged on a gal that happened to have a couple of 1up planets in it. (yes Rob this was you) We didn't focus on the 1up planets, we just didn't leave them out of it.
Hmm. Except for the fact that the 1up planets were opened up for 5 waves (I eventually got 6 ), while everyone else was limited to 2-3 waves.

I'm not suggesting that ND intentionally provoked a war with 1up. Attacking a single galaxy with 4 1up members in would be a very stupid way to start a war anyway - if you really wanted war you would have hit far more 1up members than that.

However (and this is a point I remember making to Nef much earlier in the round), you can't expect to hit members of an alliance without any consequences. Saying "but it wasn't really an attack on 1up" doesn't make any difference. Call me old-fashioned, but I tend to believe that when a 1up member gets incoming from an ND member, as part of an ND raid, that's ND hitting 1up. Perhaps other alliances don't see it this way any more, but 1up does pay attention to where its incoming comes from and uses that to determine its targetting strategy. We didn't need an "excuse" to hit ND, but ND hitting 1up-heavy galaxies (you went for mazz and Cayl's galaxy the following night) did provide us with a reason for looking at ND sooner than we might otherwise have done.

On to a slightly broader point... I think ND have done reasonably well this round, but then I think they have done reasonably well in most recent rounds. From r11-r13, ND were a good solid alliance who had a lot of bad breaks. In r14 they were a good solid alliance who got some good breaks for a change. I don't think they've massively increased in quality all of a sudden (that would almost be insulting to the r11-r13 members tbh). What they did prove this round was that it can often be better (particularly for smaller alliances, in terms of membership size) to avoid aligning themselves too closely with a stronger ally. ND suffered in past rounds for their association with 1up, just as Hydra suffered this round for being allied to LCH. If there's a lesson here, it is that alliances generally do better when they take their political fate into their own hands, rather than fighting under someone else's banner.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 12:50   #48
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish

4) Politics - We stayed away from the early wars and collected plenty of roids. Very shameful of us I know, having this freedom also improved
Nowt wrong with that tbh.

As for Newdawn Well to be honest they have improved from last round in my eyes because i thought in all honesty that they wouldnt make top 10 and would struggle with a small memberbase and I put my hands up and say I was wrong i think they have done pretty well for themselves wether due to disbands, mergers and such or not they are still 2nd place with a good lead over 3rd place and giving as good as they get.

As I have said many a time in my posts about ND good job ppl and keep up the good work as its nice to see you not just lieing down like a dead dog in what in my eyes is a boring repetative round with not many ppl to attack coz of the small member base in PA nowadays.
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 12:52   #49
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Re: OK. Newdawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Alright, I don't want this thread to come off as negative
I must have missed the positive side of it then
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Unread 13 Sep 2005, 13:06   #50
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Re: OK. Newdawn

ND has done well in some points and bad in others...

for example no-one expected them to be #2 at the start of this round.
also their attacks were very effective.

However bad things are imo that they recruited up to 98 members while they started a war with reunion when they did the same (and they even took in quite a few of the same guys)

politics was good and bad... avoiding most wars worked at the start... but cancelling war with lch twice after they basically announced one to it's members is bad obviously as it's not good for morale... and maybe they should have hit 1up earlier.. but indeed as lokken said... with gate/fish/nef on holiday + more maybe that would have been a very hard task

Also someone said going half cath/half xan was good. That's a point which i really think is bad. I mean just look at the way 1up played round 13... ALOT of cath, which means you dont have killing power... and then xan being shit this round. i really don't see how it's a good thing for any alliance.
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