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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 04:03   #1
mikay
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Who are the gods of propaganda

I'm not interested in the ppl who are up their win arse or just rant like nutters. I actually want some advice on proper propaganda for a differnt game, the kind that makes impartial ppl believe your POV and means you don't look like a dick in the process. Who are the people who can swing sentiment and how do they achieve it.
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 04:36   #2
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

i think you need to learn how to lie
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 04:42   #3
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

I'm sure anyone who plays risk will agree it has to be Zhil ! The average channel just consists of him saying:

"Yellow is winning hit Yellow"
"If you don't hit Blue it's game over"
"Green has won"
"Pink and Grey must have blocked lets all hit them them"
"That's the stupidest move ever, hit Red"

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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 04:58   #4
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
I'm sure anyone who plays risk will agree it has to be Zhil ! The average channel just consists of him saying:

"Yellow is winning hit Yellow"
"If you don't hit Blue it's game over"
"Green has won"
"Pink and Grey must have blocked lets all hit them them"
"That's the stupidest move ever, hit Red"

It's all lies, I am not even top 10 in the risk league.
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 06:54   #5
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

what type of propaganda are you trying to do? Are you trying to recruit people into an alliance, trying to win arguements, or trying to look like the coolist sob around?
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 07:15   #6
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Basically we are the good guys (ofc) and the bad guys kept having their digs and as we were inactive well, not much response. Now you have a situation where the whle new generation fo noobies that have come into the game in the last 6 months picture us as the bad guys and turning that around would be nice.

Personal opinion is Zhil is pretty shite at propaganda. He just tends to make himself look like a nob and that's never good for cred. Imo I'd have to say Rob is one of the best as he always seems to have kept some credibilty even though I don't think he always gets his points across well and can be a bit vebose. Sid too, nobody ever dared gainsay Sid whereas Cryptic was pretty much a joke.

Xanadu always seemed to have credibility on the forums although I can't really think of anyone who posted much on their behalf. FAnG (unfortunately) never really seemed to play that game, or not very well, so I don't have a lot of rolemodels close to me to ask.

So yeah - what is the secret?
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 07:50   #7
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

there is no big secret really. Just be yourself. Gather knowledge about the game and play it well. I am not saying that you should be an top dog or anything. If you post for a while and people see that you have a good head on your shoulders, then people will start respecting you. There is no magic formula or anything.

Just some quick pointers:

* Since most people probebly speaks/writes english: make every attempt to write clearly. More then anything, that has helped me improve on my englisch and win discussions/arguements

* try to stay away from comments like: "Shut up you f*cking noob"! Do it once or twice and people might think you are cool or funny. Do it every time and people will think that you are stupid twat

If you want to insult someone, try to bring your reader to that conclusion without saying anything. Just read newspapers and you will see editors doing that all the time. Otherwise, they might get sued.

* If you make a statement or arguement: always try to back it up. Use logic. For example:

"You suck!" Ok, you let the community know what you think now why did this person suck.

* Finally, be yourself. Each person is unique and brings something different to the table.

Have fun mate and kick some arse!
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 09:34   #8
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Where can I play Risk online?
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 09:35   #9
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Briskeby
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 09:43   #10
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Few of LordNoble points were good points, in order to be respected (which drive to the fact that more and more people will listen to what you say no matter what).

You will have to write proper english and write simple, its better to explain the whole story in few words than give a very long story which later wont be understood by nobody because you dont control the language.

Try to write and construct your post in paragraph and check for your vocabulary and grammary. (Open your sentences with Capital letters and close them with a point.)
All this are just important to show that you put time and effort in each post you are making and not another guy that just make his post count increasing.

Answer every argument with concrete information, you can always try to also replies to argument with a bit of false information, the art of propaganda is also how to control dissinformation and being the one to control the amount of information and what the quality of information that the public will know, the more your argument will look constructed, intelligent, the more people will tend to take in mind whatever you write.
Of course never post in a Flamed Threads with a lot of Trolls posts, people tend to picture the people who were involved in bringing the threads to low standarts, however you can always make a intelligent post to a flamed thread and get out of it with your hand on the top.

Try to avoid, in fact avoid posting low and simple thread where you swear or use bad language or just make a fool of yourself.

You can attack directly or indirectly your adversary by giving out information and hurting him under the belt but with style, make sure people will interprete it as a valid assumption and not another troll or Crusade against your advesary, you need to be fair and respect your advesary but in another hand, the more you will post valid and 'neutral' interesting information, more and more people will take what you say in consideration.

You will have also to read carefully what people write and use what they says against them, probably 30/40% of what people are saying would be wrong and you need to know where is their weakness or what part of their post is the "bullshit", by using it against them and retorting to their post with 'valid' post you will look more professional, you dont have to reply with valid information either, as part of the propaganda will be to gently missleading people.

The day you will see that people are actually posting back to your thread in a intelligent way and take 50% of their time to counter-back your assumption or your propaganda in a respectable way, is the day you can tell yourself that you people listen to you..

Another hard task will be to hold this 'rank' for a long time and to try to avoid loosing credibility as 'fight' on forum with propaganda involved sometime can bring out of any person his bad side.
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 09:52   #11
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

it is allways to let your enemy look VERY big and mean. Then the others will be afraid and:
- attack him/her/it
- allie him/her/it (this option is BAD for u )
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 10:06   #12
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

looking proffesional also helps.

Like having the correct colour in your sig

ACE, it should be color=lime, not color=green
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 10:13   #13
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by alch
You will have to write proper english and write simple, its better to explain the whole story in few words than give a very long story which later wont be understood by nobody because you dont control the language.

.

*yawn* You kinda lost me about the fifth line down

j/k. I could not agree with you more.
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 11:46   #14
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Tbh, and I've learned this in classes and anyone who has ever seen some theory about this will most likely agree to this. But sadly, the one talking the most (in this case posting) and the one talking the loudest en whoever looks most confident often is the one that wins the arguement irl.
Those things are often more important then the content of what you're saying (look at politics in whatever country).

Nway, tbh I believe the best PR is the PR where you can make the audience believe whatever you want them to believe. Fact that those are lies or the truth doesn't really matter.

Mikay, dunno what game it is, but the best PR is the evidence you have after whooping their asses on the battlefield, nothing beats that
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 11:48   #15
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

You still don't qualify.

:)
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 12:04   #16
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Make yourselves look honest and respectable, subtly provoke your opponents into making themselves look immature and unbeleivable, whilst making yourself look mature and beleivable.

Subtlety is one of the biggest things, though the art of it appears to have fallen out of favour by most people.
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 12:09   #17
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtothez
You still don't qualify.

neither did I say I do. I infact think none of the pple posting here are decent PR material, Maybe Rob is one of the few pple that could, though I don't think he's bothered with PR
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 14:14   #18
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Usually, atleast in games with "raw masses" and politics board pr counts shit. You need to influence maybe 20-30 ppl, namely the most prominent leaders.
For this you need good connections and a good credibility to swing things in your favour.
No matter how well you do or what a good pr guy you are you will always have black marks somewhere or one of your members will have so the option to look all bright and good is usually a false friend.
Concentrate, manipulate, use or force some ppl you know to play it your way and youll succeed, PR is just a tool to bolster that up once you have achieved that.

As you have seen in planetarion, after maybe r3 or 5 there was no PR involved which involved the huge masses. HC knew mostly what to think of the situation and knew the boards were full of crap and lies, so the time of shocking political changes by the power of the boards was quickly over. Same will happen in your other game so dont try to excel in it. Eve has a prime example for that, Jade Constantin, good writer, smart PR person but sadly cant bolster up ingame what she talks about. Ingame facts and rarely posting combined with good thought through posts is better then any PR.
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 14:47   #19
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

What to do?

You read this. -------> http://www.advicemeant.com/flame/index.shtml

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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 15:06   #20
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikay
Sid too, nobody ever dared gainsay Sid whereas Cryptic was pretty much a joke.
I think you misunderstand the full complexity of propaganda. Whenever Sid posts he generally posts reasonable intelligent comments, usually backed up with facts. Cryptic's style was slander, flaming, trolling and acussations.

Both were vital in Fury's (when AD "wars" were at their peak, maybe R4-R5 I'm not sure) PR attempt. Different styles work on different people, but one person can't post every style without losing their credibility.
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 15:10   #21
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

I taught Zhil all his propoganda moves, he was a good student....

And back to the topic, I am teh propoganda.
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 17:32   #22
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Some good points here. Kj unfortunately we get thorougly thumped just about every time on the batlefield due to weight of numbers mostly. Part of the problem is nobody really cares about the other guys and we've been slandered a bit over time to go from the good guys to the bad guys. The goal is to recreate that goodguy image and posibly pick up some allies down the line.

Focht tx some very good advice. The thing with planetarion is largely that since R3-5 the playerbase has been declining somewhat. I've always maintained that on these forums ppl just post for themselves really, it's usualy BS and nobody's opinion is really going to be swayed. The thing is I'm talking about a much more dynamic game that is growing with new ppl coming in all the time. 3 months down the line these new ppl matter and they get fed a very false truth - and if they're gonna beliee lies I wasnt them to believe my lies

Back to Kj's point of who shouts most and loudest. Is it best to play a reactive role on the forums, just replying and counter accusing or or better to start accusatory threads? This seems risky as you look like a constant whiner but definitely the 1st post will be the one that is read and believed the most. Would it be better sometimes to get other people to make the accusations and you just jump in with a post near the start so it's likely to get read. Might this be the Zhil/Cryptic role whereas Sid/Focht come up with the sane justification/proof in a followup post?
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 19:40   #23
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikay
Would it be better sometimes to get other people to make the accusations and you just jump in with a post near the start so it's likely to get read. Might this be the Zhil/Cryptic role whereas Sid/Focht come up with the sane justification/proof in a followup post?
Are you sure you are referring to me?

I've never been that much of a propaganda whore, and when I have been I've let my bias shine through. I've never hid my intentions and that is why my posts for the most part were well received. There are occassions where I went over the top, but that is a flaw in being zealous to your alliance. But in general, it never really affected my 'reputation' overall since I always seem to bounce back.

I would agree with you that my "propaganda" last round was rubbish but it did the job, and when I went overthetop I apologised for it afterwards still to the people afflicted.

End of the day I earnt a reputation of being a loyal and very blunt poster. I get my point across with a hammer, and always post in defence of my alliance in every situation. It makes me somewhat predictable, but I love portraying a zealous attitude. It's my 'thing', and I'm happy to have been seen as an icon of Fury spirit.

Later on circa r9 with Eclipse, I posted quite abit then - but instead the loyalty shifted alliances and my posting style was abit more serious. That was also the time when I was voted one of the best posters on AD.

Still, Rob and Sid are much better posters than me - as my zealous attitude makes me too focussed on specific issues and far too defensive but oh well, these boards would have been boring without my style of posting in the earlier rounds.
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Unread 20 Jun 2004, 19:55   #24
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

I'm not trying to be critical and and yes your loaylty and enthusiasm come across but I don't think you're as effective at influencing people as others, and indeed they could be seen as more phoney and lss honest but they seem to say the right things to change opinion and that's really what I'm trying to identify.
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Unread 21 Jun 2004, 00:07   #25
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikay
I'm not trying to be critical and and yes your loaylty and enthusiasm come across but I don't think you're as effective at influencing people as others, and indeed they could be seen as more phoney and lss honest but they seem to say the right things to change opinion and that's really what I'm trying to identify.
Then you are looking for posters around r2 era.

I honestly think the importance of AD is overshadowed nowadays, and its very hard to judge how many people have actually been influenced by events upon here.
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Unread 21 Jun 2004, 00:14   #26
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Paging Ministry to thread 178273
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Unread 21 Jun 2004, 04:50   #27
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l
Then you are looking for posters around r2 era.

I honestly think the importance of AD is overshadowed nowadays, and its very hard to judge how many people have actually been influenced by events upon here.
+1 point for verbosity, -1 point for incorrect usage of the word 'overshadowed'.

There are several different ways of being good at propaganda. Cryptic may have been viewed as a nob, but he spread the xanadu-bot meme pretty well.

In my opinion the best posters are those who have a good grasp of the English language* and respect for other posters. These two things are really all that's needed to be a good poster.

* If you're one of those people who say 'English isn't my first language', stop whining. I've met plenty of people, both offline and online, who have English as their second language, yet manage to express themselves without breaking grammar or spelling rules.
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Unread 21 Jun 2004, 08:30   #28
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
Make yourselves look honest and respectable, subtly provoke your opponents into making themselves look immature and unbeleivable, whilst making yourself look mature and beleivable.

Subtlety is one of the biggest things, though the art of it appears to have fallen out of favour by most people.

Listen to this one, Genious he is. Do not listen to me, however because I am bad at this. Find some dirt on your enemie and expose it. If you cant find any dirt make something up. But make sure its believable.
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Unread 21 Jun 2004, 08:54   #29
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
ACE, it should be color=lime, not color=green
thx, i saw it l8er. Thx eanyway
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Unread 23 Jun 2004, 18:26   #30
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Never openly lie to people. If you tell them something is true which is blatantly false it discredits you totally. The best approach is to include as much factually correct information as you can. When you are seen to back up your points rationally people will rarely assume an ulterior motive without prior cause to do so. Generally subtle falsehoods are the best approach. Clutter up your actual point with as much extraneous and unnecessary information as you can so as it cannot be clearly approached by anyone who wishes to state their disagreement. The central point of your posts should predominately be apparent and implied rather than blatant and boldly stated. However always give off the impression that if someone cannot understand how you came to a certain conclusion that it is the fault of that particular person and not your flawed logic.

Be verbose while criticising verbosity, this gives off the impression of actual intelligence without you having to do anything. If someone perceives you as an intelligent poster they'll give your posts credit based on "you" and not the actual value of what you write. Do not post excessively. If you post excessively you seem desperate and a bit of an idiot most of the time. Respond with short replies to posts that deserve more attention (but which would obviously portray your alliance in a bad light) . When you do write what appears to be a proper reply, make it too long to be replied to quickly, people generally don't bother replying to some sort of lengthy essay unless they have far too much time on their hands. Use a high number of "tangential truths" in your longer replies. These distract attention from the bullshit you write and create an impression of benevolent helpfulness.

Always try to appear neutral. Always have someone in your alliance posting like an idiot. The gray fallacy is one of the best propaganda weapons ever devised (the gray fallacy is that if one person says white and one says black the neutral observer assumes gray). This promotes your appearance of reasonableness and enables you to manipulate most people's perceptions. Ensure your alliance has a high level of security at the levels where it matters. If you're the only conduit of real information nobody has anything else to compare with.

Accept blame rarely but when you do do it wholeheartedly. It doesn't even have to be actually your fault as long as people believe that this is what you're actually like when you're in the wrong. Never openly belittle your opponents. Flaming is a poor weapon in any form of discussion (unless you're in the idiot category I mentioned earlier). Finishing a moderately lengthy post with some form of ironic or sarcastic dismissal of what you just properly responded to will usually make your post more difficult to answer. You also have the added benefit of being able to claim you were just "messing around". Following on from this serious, try to appear serious as infrequently as possible. Serious people's posts aren't that fun to read and if nobody likes your image as a poster your propaganda efforts on behalf of your alliance are pretty ****ing useless.

If you want a certain reputation, eg as someone who never lies, it's usually extremely easy to get it. If you never bother stating something controversial you're rarely going to be caught out lying. Never bother stating your alliance is or isn't going to block and you haven't lied when it does. Conversely never state an outright obvious lie. When you lie ensure there is a relative paucity of proof that you have, or you're in control of most of it. Don't always feel the need to reply to every thread. Most people do a decent enough job of making an idiot of themselves that you rarely have to bother replying in order to maintain your alliance's image.
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Unread 24 Jun 2004, 00:34   #31
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

The posts that I am more likely to take seriously are those that are presented, written and argued well.
The most effective posts are likely those written ironically. Removed, authoritative sarcasm may well achieve that which a flame cannot.
An opponent can be made to look inferior if his posts are less objective. Ridicule is an underused tool, and needn't be blatant.
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Unread 27 Jun 2004, 14:56   #32
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

I would select Rob with fbd as a counterfoil
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Unread 28 Jun 2004, 01:29   #33
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

to answer the initial question in this thread;

it aint you
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Unread 29 Jun 2004, 06:07   #34
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

AlbinoSqrl always got my blood boiling with love.
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Unread 29 Jun 2004, 07:01   #35
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony
AlbinoSqrl always got my blood boiling with love.
Indeed. Dingoisawanker!
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Unread 29 Jun 2004, 09:08   #36
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I think you misunderstand the full complexity of propaganda. Whenever Sid posts he generally posts reasonable intelligent comments, usually backed up with facts. Cryptic's style was slander, flaming, trolling and acussations.

Both were vital in Fury's (when AD "wars" were at their peak, maybe R4-R5 I'm not sure) PR attempt. Different styles work on different people, but one person can't post every style without losing their credibility.
hehe, r4 was fun. SilverSmoke and I vs the Fury PR squad
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Unread 29 Jun 2004, 14:53   #37
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

propanganda is easy - the hard part is getting everyone else to supor your view.

Too many try and argue and fail because of the depth of what they say or the lack of understanding.

If you can attack someones argument and proove what they say t lack any serious stability you will more ften then not win over.

In your position though from the facts you have give you need to show how they are making the game shitty and try and encourage "other" hc to help stop them abising the game structure.

Failing that just find a different game
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Unread 29 Jun 2004, 18:31   #38
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
propanganda is easy - the hard part is getting everyone else to supor your view.

Too many try and argue and fail because of the depth of what they say or the lack of understanding.

If you can attack someones argument and proove what they say t lack any serious stability you will more ften then not win over.

In your position though from the facts you have give you need to show how they are making the game shitty and try and encourage "other" hc to help stop them abising the game structure.

Failing that just find a different game
It helps if you can be bothered to spend 30 secs checking what you've typed instead of spamming the forums with illiterate drivel. Do you not find it embarrassing that most non native users of your own language manage to do it better than you?
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Unread 29 Jun 2004, 18:53   #39
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
It helps if you can be bothered to spend 30 secs checking what you've typed instead of spamming the forums with illiterate drivel. Do you not find it embarrassing that most non native users of your own language manage to do it better than you?
*Ouch*
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Unread 30 Jun 2004, 01:00   #40
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Propaganda?
lieing?

I'd never do that
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Unread 30 Jun 2004, 01:48   #41
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
Indeed. Dingoisawanker!
Hmmmm. I love you too Rob.
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Unread 30 Jun 2004, 02:02   #42
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

A brief history lesson from 20th April 2002 concerning the 'Dingo is a Wanker' comment.

[20:35] <Agamemnon> hmmmm
[20:35] <Agamemnon> who is going to make the AD post?
[20:35] <AlbinoSqrl> me
[20:35] <AlbinoSqrl>
[20:35] <Agamemnon> will it start with
[20:35] <Agamemnon> "Mission Accomplished" ?
[20:36] <AlbinoSqrl> yes!
[20:36] <Agamemnon>
[20:36] <Vaio_Clean> go for it Albi
[20:36] <Vaio_Clean> :@)
[20:37] <AlbinoSqrl> )
[20:37] <Vaio_Clean> see if you can use the phrase Dingo is a wanker
[20:37] <Vaio_Clean> for extra points

I thank you

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Unread 30 Jun 2004, 08:13   #43
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
It helps if you can be bothered to spend 30 secs checking what you've typed instead of spamming the forums with illiterate drivel. Do you not find it embarrassing that most non native users of your own language manage to do it better than you?
like i care what u think - yes my spelling is attrocious at imes, but most understand what i say.

Get over yourself and get a life.
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Unread 30 Jun 2004, 08:15   #44
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo
Hmmmm. I love you too Rob.
Remember Dingo - ppl always hate what they fear.
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Unread 1 Jul 2004, 10:42   #45
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Always nice to be feared... Even when not active or playing.

Good to see you still alive Rumad. Pissing people off as much as I do I hope.
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Unread 1 Jul 2004, 11:06   #46
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Re: Who are the gods of propaganda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo
Always nice to be feared... Even when not active or playing.

Good to see you still alive Rumad. Pissing people off as much as I do I hope.
I see no reason to change the habbit of a lifetime mate
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