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Unread 3 Nov 2003, 23:35   #1
Ragnarak
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Settle an arguement please - nationality

When someone says "I'm half English and half Spanish" what exactly does it mean?

Say if someone's dad was born in France, their Mum in Germany but they were born in England, what's their nationality and what's it made up from?

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Unread 3 Nov 2003, 23:39   #2
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

1. One parent is English, the other is Spanish.

2. Half French, half German. This is assuming the parents grew up in the country they were born in, and their grandparents are also from that country.
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Unread 3 Nov 2003, 23:45   #3
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

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Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
2. Half French, half German. This is assuming the parents grew up in the country they were born in, and their grandparents are also from that country.
So the kid is born in England but isn't English (British/whatever)?
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Unread 3 Nov 2003, 23:47   #4
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Two of my cousins have an English father and an Irish mother, and were born in South Africa. They are half English, half Irish, and definitely not South African.
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Unread 3 Nov 2003, 23:47   #5
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

And how do u get someone who is 1/2 English, 1/4 Dutch, 1/8 German and 1/8 French (for example)
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Unread 3 Nov 2003, 23:48   #6
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnarak
Say if someone's dad was born in France, their Mum in Germany but they were born in England, what's their nationality and what's it made up from?
Then that person would be English, but would be entitled to nationality for France and Germany - they would have three passports, English, French and German.
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Unread 3 Nov 2003, 23:48   #7
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Isn't your nationality where you are 'registered' as a citizen. A mate of mine was born in France and has lived there all his life, but is British on his passport..
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Unread 3 Nov 2003, 23:48   #8
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

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Originally Posted by Proteus
Two of my cousins have an English father and an Irish mother, and were born in South Africa. They are half English, half Irish, and definitely not South African.
But, if they'd stayed and grew up in SA (i assume they didn't), doesn't that make a difference?
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Unread 3 Nov 2003, 23:50   #9
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnarak
And how do u get someone who is 1/2 English, 1/4 Dutch, 1/8 German and 1/8 French (for example)
American?
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Unread 3 Nov 2003, 23:51   #10
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

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Originally Posted by Ragnarak
But, if they'd stayed and grew up in SA (i assume they didn't), doesn't that make a difference?
You can assume a nationality by living somewhere, but that has nothing to do with being born there.

And when people say "half something and half something else" they are undoubtably referring to the nationalities of their parents.

I was born in England, but I'm still half English and half Irish.
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 00:08   #11
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Passport Officer Grade 3

Work involves:

Passport Officer Grade 3's will be responsible for the accurate examination of passport applications to establish identity, nationality and immigration status.


I did that job i did.

Anyways i can only speak for British nationality and its kinda complicated.

Give me specific cases and i can tell you if they qualify as British or not.

Recently (ie after 1983 ... i think its 83) if your mother was British then you are British. If your mother was foreign (say French) and your dad was British you are only British if your parents were married at the time of your birth.

You can also be British if your parents were married at the time of your birth and neither of them was British but your Fathers father was British.

I think thats the case but im doing this from memory and its legislation covering 3 acts of parliment (BNA 48, IA 73 [i think its 73] and BNA 81) and without my notes im not 100% sure (say 99%) but anyways i think thats what the case is.
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 00:16   #12
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

ok, though what Belgy said bout being English as well seems to contradict others...?
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 00:16   #13
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnarak
When someone says "I'm half English and half Spanish" what exactly does it mean?

Say if someone's dad was born in France, their Mum in Germany but they were born in England, what's their nationality and what's it made up from?

Ta
legally or colloquially?

in america it all makes sense because virtually nobody is really from here, so it's always understood to mean 'where did your ancestors come from,' assuming an arbitrarily large number of generations up.

i'm 1/8 irish, 1/8 scottish, 3/8 german, 1/8 dutch, and 1/4 english.

this comes about from my dad having 1 grandparent each: dutch, english, irish, and scottish, and my mom having a pure german parent and a half german half english parent.

the really fun part is when someone claims they are 1/3 Polish.

anyway, in a couple generations i'm sure we'll give up on this charade and just say 'european'
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 00:18   #14
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

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Originally Posted by acropolis
anyway, in a couple generations i'm sure we'll give up on this charade and just say 'european'

**** will we

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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 00:19   #15
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnarak
ok, though what Belgy said bout being English as well seems to contradict others...?
At the end of the day, someone's nationality is what they want it to be (within reason).

Some will associate with their parent's nationality, others with the country of their birth, others still with the country in which they currently live.

However, any kind of fractions will indicate the first type, which is (in my experience) the most common used by normal people (rather than passport offices).
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 00:21   #16
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

BTW Rag being born in Britain no longer means you are British.

After 1984 (i think) you had to have British parent(s) like i said in the above case.

Before '84 i think being born in Britain made you British.
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 00:50   #17
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

I am 3/4th Dutch and 1/4th Polish.
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 02:44   #18
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Noone cares about your nationality other than fascist governments.
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 03:54   #19
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Noone cares about your nationality other than fascist governments.

Yeah, cos there's no non-democratic governments left in the world!






PS Nationality is an extremely confused issue seeing as it's a question concerning nations in the broader sense but for which the laws are drawn up by each individual nation, meaning that you could be something in one place but not in another which redefines the word "daft" for me.
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 03:58   #20
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Yeah, cos there's no non-democratic governments left in the world!
Who would care about your nationality under a free-market system?
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 04:04   #21
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Quote:
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Who would care about your nationality under a free-market system?

Establishing a system where there are no enforced prejudices doesn't mean prejudice will disappear instantly.
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 04:30   #22
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

I think you people mixing nationality with citezenship.
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 04:38   #23
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Both my parents are scottish, I was born in england, that makes me half english half scottish.
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 04:40   #24
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

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Originally Posted by the dying puppy
I think you people mixing nationality with citezenship.

The status of belonging to a particular nation by origin, birth, or naturalization.
A people having common origins or traditions and often constituting a nation.
Existence as a politically autonomous entity; national independence.
National character.
Nationalism.


The dictionary is an inconclusive as everyone else :(
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 05:28   #25
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

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Originally Posted by Embroglio
Both my parents are scottish, I was born in england, that makes me half english half scottish.
Both of my parents are Ukranians, I was born in Russia (Africa), I live in USA and have US citezenship, but my nationality is Ukranian or at least thats what my passport says
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 06:33   #26
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

My family has been in America since before 1900 (some branches since colonial times), but if someone asks my nationality it's half English and half German, with a bit of Irish. And apparently 1 Native American way back there somewhere, if you want to get specific.
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 09:57   #27
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

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Originally Posted by Ragnarak
So the kid is born in England but isn't English (British/whatever)?
I would say not. In my eyes nationality is defined by where your parents are from. I was born in Venezuela but I don't consider myself Venezuelan.

There are no set rules for nationality, only citizenship. If I wanted to I could start a weed garden in my attic, get dreadlocks and say I'm Jamaican even though I've never been there or have Jamaican ancestry.
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 10:00   #28
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

you know

not only jamacians smoke or grow weed.

the russian mafia is insulted by that fact that you forgot them
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 10:14   #29
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Idler
you know

not only jamacians smoke or grow weed.

the russian mafia is insulted by that fact that you forgot them
the dutch are insulted by the fact that YOU forgot them


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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 10:18   #30
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

the Dutch doesnt read this thread (I do hope so)
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Unread 4 Nov 2003, 10:37   #31
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Re: Settle an arguement please - nationality

Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Idler
the Dutch doesnt read this thread (I do hope so)
/me checks his passport... *Dutch*
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