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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:34   #51
JonnyBGood
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
You dont want to stop immigration of skilled, educated people with equal views on how a society should be.
You might wish to stop certain people from other countries who cant read or write, smokes khat, and in general are an expence.

Thats not racism. Its economics.
But that isn't actually the BNP's policy? The BNP's policy is explicitly based on ethnicity. I posted the first part of their summation of their immigration policy above in case you missed it. I imagine you can find more on their website if you wish to do so.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:36   #52
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Re: The BNP

and shouldnt our borders be tightend now that we are in a economic crisis? with our NHS system over burdend and in heavy debt, record numbers of unemployment which are still rising, exponentially expanding national debt, and terrorism (can ignore terrorism, but it gets used to bring in every other type of policy ).

I dont want the british borders to be closed but rather limited to the people who would bring something to the country by being let in (i.e. skilled in an area which we require) and share our views (and importantly, speak english) i.e. i want a system like Australia's.

I dont understand how that makes me racists, as im not being anti anyone.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:37   #53
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
But that isn't actually the BNP's policy? The BNP's policy is explicitly based on ethnicity. I posted the first part of their summation of their immigration policy above in case you missed it. I imagine you can find more on their website if you wish to do so.
As a norwegian, I find myself lacking with a general knowledge, more so than what the left sided media in norway gives me, about bnp.
I can honestly say I cba to read up on their website

Also, I posted in regards to your views in regards to immigration, not bnps.
I should perhaps have clarified that. I am sorry.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:38   #54
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JBG
If it was based on, say, economic reasons or something it wouldn't be explicitly racist. However it's not. It's based on the point I quoted above.
Well... Lots of people in this country think immigration is having a ****ing shit effect on all areas of our society and economy. Whether this is right or not, its a view held by many.

The BNP policy acts on this view -> you have their immigration policy? And thus people vote so happily for them.

Quote:
The BNP doesn't just support preventing people becoming British citizens by the way, it also supports transferring British citizens of non-British ethnic origin back to their "original countries" or whatever way you want to phrase it. Not sure if you knew this, just thought I'd point it out!
I disagree partly with that policy (I should make clear, I'm not a BNP voter...), but you have it wrong (unless the policy has changed in recent times). The BNP will actively try to throw out non-british ethnics that are deemed to be useless in the economy. So spungers off the state, and the like. Yes, thats racist in so far as they won't kick out similar people that happen to be ethnic-british - but again, NO ONE in the country would want that - re: Light's post. But, its kinda a case of last in the door, first out? The number of spungers off the state needs to be decreased though, and any way you choose to do that = racist or discriminatory... its a lose-lose situation, thus no party will deal with it cos liberals will go crazy.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:38   #55
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Re: The BNP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
You dont want to stop immigration of skilled, educated people with equal views on how a society should be.
You might wish to stop certain people from other countries who cant read or write, smokes khat, and in general are an expence.

Thats not racism. Its economics.
That's not what the BNP want though...
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:39   #56
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
As a norwegian, I find myself lacking with a general knowledge, more so than what the left sided media in norway gives me, about bnp.
I can honestly say I cba to read up on their website

Also, I posted in regards to your views in regards to immigration, not bnps.
I should perhaps have clarified that. I am sorry.
The BNP does not really have the standing to be mentioned in the paper of another country.

Really.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:40   #57
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by All Systems Go View Post
That's not what the BNP want though...
I'm 100% sure the BNP wouldnt kick out all the skilled doctors which have came in through immigration

(thats just one case, as even if they wanted to.. they cant as they're required.)
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:41   #58
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by All Systems Go View Post
The BNP does not really have the standing to be mentioned in the paper of another country.

Really.
BNP have been mentioned every day on the news here in norway.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:45   #59
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Re: The BNP

It is the same as UKIP use lax immigration as one of there reasons to vote for them and get out of the EU and they finished 2nd in our recent european election
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:45   #60
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
and shouldnt our borders be tightend now that we are in a economic crisis? with our NHS system over burdend and in heavy debt, record numbers of unemployment which are still rising, exponentially expanding national debt, and terrorism (can ignore terrorism, but it gets used to bring in every other type of policy ).

I dont want the british borders to be closed but rather limited to the people who would bring something to the country by being let in (i.e. skilled in an area which we require) and share our views (and importantly, speak english) i.e. i want a system like Australia's.

I dont understand how that makes me racists, as im not being anti anyone.
And I wouldn't say your beliefs on immigration are explicitly racist. Unlike the BNP's. Which are.

I do think you could benefit from reading further on this topic though so here's a link to a relevant article for an examination of the actual links between immigration and economics!
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:49   #61
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
And I wouldn't say your beliefs on immigration are explicitly racist. Unlike the BNP's. Which are.

I do think you could benefit from reading further on this topic though so here's a link to a relevant article for an examination of the actual links between immigration and economics!
But if immigration is my #1 concern in politics, then i should vote for BNP regardless of weither some people think they are racist or not (i.e. racist is a moot point, as it doesnt matter as long as what they'll do is what i want).
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:55   #62
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Re: The BNP

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a cat has 4 legs. my dog as 4 legs. therefore my dog is a cat.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 19:58   #63
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Re: The BNP

Or

My main political motive is for closed borders.
BNP's main objective is to close borders.

therefore, i will vote for BNP?
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:00   #64
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Re: The BNP

Out of interrest, and I guess you don't have to answer this (duh -_-) did you vote BNP light? And if so would you actually want the BNP to be in power (or have enough power to contribute to country policy), or just vote for them to try and force the other parties to come up with similar immigration policies - at which point you'll change your vote.

And if not, feel free to answer hypothetically
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:00   #65
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
Or

My main political motive is for closed borders.
BNP's main objective is to close borders.

therefore, i will vote for BNP?
yep, that's equally stupid.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:02   #66
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Out of interrest, and I guess you don't have to answer this (duh -_-) did you vote BNP light? And if so would you actually want the BNP to be in power (or have enough power to contribute to country policy), or just vote for them to try and force the other parties to come up with similar immigration policies - at which point you'll change your vote.

And if not, feel free to answer hypothetically
No, i didnt vote.

I'm of the notion that whichever way i vote in the euro or general elections, my views will go unheard and what i want will stay undone. Politicians are corrupt, selfish and lazy.. they dont act for whats best for the country they serve, they act for whats best for them.

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yep, that's equally stupid.
Yes, its stupid to vote for a party which wants the same things as you.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:08   #67
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
I'm of the notion that whichever way i vote in the euro or general elections, my views will go unheard and what i want will stay undone. Politicians are corrupt, selfish and lazy.. they dont act for whats best for the country they serve, they act for whats best for them.
We share political views and both like fish and chips - where did it all go wrong :crymeariver:

Hey yahwe - how about posting constructively in the thread? And if you feel so aghastly opposed to participating in a discussion which you obviously feel is pointless and retarded, just don't post?
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:10   #68
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Re: The BNP

I also believe, that even if we did live in a perfect world and politicians werent corrupt.. That i do not fully understood the consequences of actions and dont fully understand what the country needs.. I can only see what i want from my limited view point, so it would be highly irresponsible of me to vote.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:16   #69
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Well... Lots of people in this country think immigration is having a ****ing shit effect on all areas of our society and economy. Whether this is right or not, its a view held by many.

The BNP policy acts on this view -> you have their immigration policy? And thus people vote so happily for them.
While that may explain why people vote for them it doesn't explain why their policy is what it is. The policy is racist.



Quote:
I disagree partly with that policy (I should make clear, I'm not a BNP voter...), but you have it wrong (unless the policy has changed in recent times).
Quoting from their website again

Quote:
and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question.
No reference to skilled/unskilled. Although it's worth noting it's not involuntary transfer which you may have assumed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
But if immigration is my #1 concern in politics, then i should vote for BNP regardless of weither some people think they are racist or not (i.e. racist is a moot point, as it doesnt matter as long as what they'll do is what i want).
My #1 concern is not getting killed by the government that gets voted in. This may sound fatuous but it points to a more significant question than whether or not you agree with their immigration policy. I'd ask at this point if you'd vote for the BNP in European elections only or in a general election as well (not you personally as you said you didn't vote, but your hypothetical person with those priorities).
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:27   #70
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
My #1 concern is not getting killed by the government that gets voted in. This may sound fatuous but it points to a more significant question than whether or not you agree with their immigration policy. I'd ask at this point if you'd vote for the BNP in European elections only or in a general election as well (not you personally as you said you didn't vote, but your hypothetical person with those priorities).
why would BNP kill you?

If i'd of voted for BNP in the european elections, i would also vote for BNP in the general elections.

I'm not pro-BNP or anything, i'm just not anti-BNP. I dont regard them as racist and i certainly feel that there MP's should be listened to if they get voted in, instead of every other party ignoring them and just slandering them. In a democrasy, even those people who have different views, should have a right to be heard.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:31   #71
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Re: The BNP

If they can eliminate one group of people on ethnic grounds, they can pretty much justifying eliminating anyone, including you. What makes you so special anyway?
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:32   #72
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
While that may explain why people vote for them it doesn't explain why their policy is what it is. The policy is racist.
You're assuming that the policy is based on racism, I'm assuming its based on actual economics & whats best for the country (or at least what the BNP policy-makers think is best for the country). Who is right? No one knows... but stop guessing that its racism?

The bit you posted from the BNP site mostly contradicts what I said I still don't think the BNP will want immigrant skilled workers to leave - I can't quote where I read this (I assume it was a pre-2007 BNP policy site) - so I'll concede defeat. Either way, as I said, there are some BNP policies I disagree with and that is one. And yes, it is racist too! Now for the question of "is racism ALWAYS a bad thing?" - I don't think so, is it with that BNP policy?
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:34   #73
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
If they can eliminate one group of people on ethnic grounds, they can pretty much justifying eliminating anyone, including you. What makes you so special anyway?
they arnt elimating one group of people on ethnic policys. They are just closing borders for anyone not of british origin. Alot of countrys have these exact same policys, i think America runs a similar system does it not? and australia is even harder to immigrate to...
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:35   #74
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
If they can eliminate one group of people on ethnic grounds, they can pretty much justifying eliminating anyone, including you. What makes you so special anyway?
Its voluntary. The BNP is a DEMOCRATIC party - despite what you and others may think. The BNP will never be able to do what its followers don't want - they'll simply get booted out of parliament - I think the queen has such powers? Unless like 80-90% of the country supports the BNP, then they may turn the country into a facist dictatorship. But back to the real world...

BNP followers won't want the BNP to kill them Therefore that won't happen.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:38   #75
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
why would BNP kill you?

If i'd of voted for BNP in the european elections, i would also vote for BNP in the general elections.
I wasn't saying that. I was just pointing out that saying immigration is your #1 concern and that you should vote for whatever party has a platform that conforms best with your ideas on this concern is having a dangerously narrow conception of the voting process.

I think if you're going to vote for the BNP in a general election you should bear in mind how their policies are likely to pan out once they are in power, whether or not they're the sort of party that should be in power and such. I highly doubt they'd turn the country into a slaughterhouse in a few years (although that would be pretty funny) but in the long-term I doubt the United Kingdom would find itself progressing as a nation-state under the leadership of the BNP. This would be a fairly extensive digression to begin on but I would advise reading up fully on their policies and the history of their party and their more prominent members.

Quote:
I'm not pro-BNP or anything, i'm just not anti-BNP. I dont regard them as racist and i certainly feel that there MP's should be listened to if they get voted in, instead of every other party ignoring them and just slandering them. In a democrasy, even those people who have different views, should have a right to be heard.
Certainly all people have a right to be listened to, I don't think anyone has proposed the BNP should be banned, or that people who vote for the BNP should be stripped of their vote. The closest anyone's come there is crab's suggestion that people voting for the BNP are being effectively hoodwinked by them.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:44   #76
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I think if you're going to vote for the BNP in a general election you should bear in mind how their policies are likely to pan out once they are in power
I genuinely do think most of BNP's supporters are people that want the BNP to become noticed, and force the country's main parties to start adopting one or two policies that are needed.

BNP actually running the country would be scary shit (not because of policy, but because of the racist biggots in the hierarchy of the party) - though before they got anywhere near that stage, they'd have to become less scary..
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:44   #77
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I wasn't saying that. I was just pointing out that saying immigration is your #1 concern and that you should vote for whatever party has a platform that conforms best with your ideas on this concern is having a dangerously narrow conception of the voting process.
Its not a narrow conception of the voting process, when we look at how the majority of people have come to the conclusion of who to vote for:
1. Countrys screwed up due to recession
2. Labour is in control
3. Its all Labours fault.
4. Its all gordons fault, not blairs, not anyone before him.. just Gordon, so he should step down now.

I'd say thats a pretty bad conception

Quote:
I think if you're going to vote for the BNP in a general election you should bear in mind how their policies are likely to pan out once they are in power, whether or not they're the sort of party that should be in power and such. I highly doubt they'd turn the country into a slaughterhouse in a few years (although that would be pretty funny) but in the long-term I doubt the United Kingdom would find itself progressing as a nation-state under the leadership of the BNP. This would be a fairly extensive digression to begin on but I would advise reading up fully on their policies and the history of their party and their more prominent members.
They dont need to be kept in power for the long-term? Surely if Labour and Conservatives saw that closing immigration was a huge issue, they'd suddenly agree that it needed to be closed

Quote:
Certainly all people have a right to be listened to, I don't think anyone has proposed the BNP should be banned, or that people who vote for the BNP should be stripped of their vote. The closest anyone's come there is crab's suggestion that people voting for the BNP are being effectively hoodwinked by them.
I read somewhere that politicians snubbed some BNP MP which got elected when he stood up to do his victory speech.. Will try and find the link out in a sec.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:47   #78
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
You're assuming that the policy is based on racism, I'm assuming its based on actual economics & whats best for the country (or at least what the BNP policy-makers think is best for the country). Who is right? No one knows... but stop guessing that its racism?
Dude, they say it themselves that it's based on ethnicity. Unless they're lying to appear more racist, I can't think of any reason why anyone would do this.

Just to underline this I'm going to repaste the quote and then rearrange it slightly

Quote:
On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years.

To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration
"We, the BNP, believe that there is a possibility of native British people becoming an ethnic minority in the UK. As such we are in favour of stopping all immigration in order to ensure that people of British ethnicity remain the majority of the population in the UK."

I have no idea how that's about economics. I can't even imagine how someone can argue that it is. It explicitly, and only, refers to the future ethnic composition of Britain as the reason for their immigration policy. I'm not guessing anything. I'm not really sure how else I can rephrase this or how you're not getting it.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:55   #79
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
BNP policy
Thats what the BNP show the world to try and get them to vote for them. Similarly, if I was to talk about quantum mechanics to the layman (voters are laymen), I wouldn't discuss the complicated and immaculately beautiful mathematics involved. I would say "SCHRODINGER'S CAT YO!" and stun them with some fun shit to get their interest up.

Just because the BNP party sells its policies at racist members of the community, doesn't mean their policies are based on racism. My love for quantum mechanics sure as hell has nothing to do with ****ing schrodinger's cat. What part of that don't you get? I don't know how to make it any clearer.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 20:57   #80
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
Its not a narrow conception of the voting process, when we look at how the majority of people have come to the conclusion of who to vote for:
1. Countrys screwed up due to recession
2. Labour is in control
3. Its all Labours fault.
4. Its all gordons fault, not blairs, not anyone before him.. just Gordon, so he should step down now.

I'd say thats a pretty bad conception
Just because other people think 2+2=897 doesn't mean that your belief that 2+2=5 is any more correct. The failings of others are theirs.

Quote:
They dont need to be kept in power for the long-term? Surely if Labour and Conservatives saw that closing immigration was a huge issue, they'd suddenly agree that it needed to be closed
I imagine that if the BNP started making huge gains at least one of the main parties would then shift their policies in favour of a stricter stance on immigration. I mean the conservative's declared policy seems to be fairly close to what people here want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by From the conservative party's website
For economic migrants from outside the EU, we propose a two-stage process:

* The first stage is making eligible for admission those who will benefit the economy
* The second stage is an annual limit to control the numbers admitted with regard to the wider effects on society and the provision of public services
You'll have to excuse me but that seems somewhat closer to your views than the BNP's, given that you said yourself that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
I dont want the british borders to be closed but rather limited to the people who would bring something to the country by being let in (i.e. skilled in an area which we require) and share our views (and importantly, speak english)
Why not vote Tory!

Quote:
I read somewhere that politicians snubbed some BNP MP which got elected when he stood up to do his victory speech.. Will try and find the link out in a sec.
Hmm, perhaps I phrased my response poorly. All people have a right to be listened to as in all people have a right to speak and not be banned from doing so in terms of what you're saying there. All people have a right to be listened to as in everyone has a vote and nobody's vote is worth more than anyone else's. You don't have a right to actually make other individuals physically listen to you though (unless you've entered into some prior arrangement which guarantees this).
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:01   #81
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Thats what the BNP show the world to try and get them to vote for them. Similarly, if I was to talk about quantum mechanics to the layman (voters are laymen), I wouldn't discuss the complicated and immaculately beautiful mathematics involved. I would say "SCHRODINGER'S CAT YO!" and stun them with some fun shit to get their interest up.

Just because the BNP party sells its policies at racist members of the community, doesn't mean their policies are based on racism. My love for quantum mechanics sure as hell has nothing to do with ****ing schrodinger's cat. What part of that don't you get? I don't know how to make it any clearer.
So what we have is a policy which is explained in racist terms and justified on racist principles and which belongs to a party which has racist leaders, but this policy isn't actually racist? I see.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:01   #82
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Why not vote Tory!
I dont vote at all.

If i did, i would vote for a extreme socialist party but i know that Britain has no chance at ever becoming a socialist country.

Quote:
Hmm, perhaps I phrased my response poorly. All people have a right to be listened to as in all people have a right to speak and not be banned from doing so in terms of what you're saying there. All people have a right to be listened to as in everyone has a vote and nobody's vote is worth more than anyone else's. You don't have a right to actually make other individuals physically listen to you though (unless you've entered into some prior arrangement which guarantees this).
elected MP's should have to listen to other elected MP's
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:03   #83
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Re: The BNP

The tories won't actually enforce anything like that though. It pains me, because I am a conservative, but they just won't go anywhere near far enough. I guess thats part of mine, and others', problem with politics - all talk.

Also, they won't close borders in the EU... thats where the biggest problem lies. It isn't the odd muslim coming in from India!
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:04   #84
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Re: The BNP

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I dont vote at all.

If i did, i would vote for a extreme socialist party
My question was aimed at your hypothetical person. You can think of my question as "why would someone with the belief that you outlined support the BNP ahead of the Conservatives" if you prefer!

Quote:
elected MP's should have to listen to other elected MP's
Clearly that's not the rule though? What you want to do is argue for the introduction of that rule then!
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:07   #85
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Re: The BNP

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My question was aimed at your hypothetical person. You can think of my question as "why would someone with the belief that you outlined support the BNP ahead of the Conservatives" if you prefer!
They wouldnt, you proved me wrong as i didnt realise those were Torys policys. However, as newt said.. Its a different question as to weither the Torys will enforce that policy. While its pretty certain, if BNP got into power.. they'd enforce it

A socialist world, is the next progressive step.. shame money and power gets in the way
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:08   #86
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
The tories won't actually enforce anything like that though. It pains me, because I am a conservative, but they just won't go anywhere near far enough. I guess thats part of mine, and others', problem with politics - all talk.
I would imagine that if the BNP became sufficiently mainstream to actually get elected they'd probably have gone down a similar direction. People don't get into politics thinking "oh man, here's an awesome chance to compromise on my principles repeatedly". Politics just isn't simple.

Quote:
Also, they won't close borders in the EU... thats where the biggest problem lies. It isn't the odd muslim coming in from India!
Well, that's a rather different situation. The EU isn't really something where you can just pick the bits and pieces you like. It's all or nothing.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:11   #87
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
Also, they won't close borders in the EU... thats where the biggest problem lies. It isn't the odd muslim coming in from India!

Thats one of the main policys of UKIP which came 2nd in these euro elections
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:20   #88
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
So what we have is a policy which is explained in racist terms
yup!

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and justified on racist principles, and which belongs to a party which has racist leaders,
Again, you think its racist - and maybe it is! But more importantly, its vital for the economy of the country (arguably). Point is the policy is both racist and necessary economically. Just because its sold in a racist way, and the leader of the BNP is a racist, doesn't mean it is based on racism. Assumption is the mother of all ****ups - though I would accept your assumption if the BNP's policy blatantly would not help the economy at all. I however, and many others, think its vital for the economy. The question then arises - did the BNP guy just sit at home one day and think "I AM GOING TO MAKE A RACIST POLICY!" - followed by "oh look, what a fluke, its also good economically. Thats lucky! Phew."

Quote:
but this policy isn't actually racist? I see.
I don't think we're arguing over the policy being racist? I'll concede that it is racist (though not in an evil fascist racist kind of way). Is it based on racism.... who knows.

Just so this dosn't turn into an endless nitpicking session, you're basically saying: the BNP policy is basically just about racism - proven by their policies on their site (aimed at attracting slightly less intelligent racist people), and a racist leader.

I say that the policy is both good economically, and that it is also racist. Lets assume Nick Griffin thinks the same.

I don't get how you can assume, as strongly as you have, that the policy is based on racism. Other than thats what the media likes to say.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:27   #89
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Re: The BNP

why is newt entitled to have his view on the economy taken seriously after two pages of this shit?
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:29   #90
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Re: The BNP

Right, bedtime for me. Just ignore that last post of mine really - its a pretty shit post nitpicking more than anything. When I spend ages on the forums I tend to get carried away on silly little inconsequential things, that have more or less nothing to do with the topic, and just exasperate people more than anything. But I've never pretended to be a good poster!

I expect loads of awesome discussions to read when I wake up.

Quote:
why is newt entitled to have his view on the economy taken seriously after two pages of this shit?
Its my view - shared by at least 5-10% of the country judging by the elections. If you include UKIP which is in the same kind of ballpark, shove that up to ~25-30% of the voting country. Its a democracy dude, you may not agree with a person's views, but that doesn't make them wrong.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:30   #91
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Yahwe View Post
why is newt entitled to have his view on the economy taken seriously after two pages of this shit?
As you're the only one who is derailing this thread. Up until your post, this thread has been kept on topic and without flaming.

So its you who shouldnt have his view taken seriously.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:34   #92
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Re: The BNP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newt
"I AM GOING TO MAKE A RACIST POLICY!" - followed by "oh look, what a fluke, its also good economically. Thats lucky! Phew."
Yeah, pretty much. It obviously didn't taken place in such acme anvil fashion but given their focus, their leaders and their other policies it's fairly obvious that ethnicity is staggeringly more important to them than economics. I mean economics doesn't even get a mention in their statement on immigration. I would be of the opinion that even if the BNP's immigration policy was incontrovertibly shown to have a negative economic impact on the country as a whole they'd simply argue on principles of culture and religion and so forth.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 21:52   #93
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Re: The BNP

Racists need to learn how to hide their views behind econimic / safety / welfare points.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 22:11   #94
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Re: The BNP

****in' sigh.

Here's a further quote from the BNP's immigration policy page (copy/pasted verbatim from http://bnp.org.uk/policies/immigration/) :

Quote:
the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question.
I'm sorry, but what the hell does is this meant to be if it's not unashamedly racist? They're suggesting deporting anyone of non-Caucasian origin (and yes, when questioned about the wording, this is what they've said) to the lands of their ethnic origin. Tell me, what's your ethnic origin? I can't say what mine is - I've got Irish / Polish / Danish blood in me. If you were born British to a Pakistani father and a Polish mother, and yet grew up here, where would you like to be deported to? The entire concept is not only utterly racist but frankly unworkable, badly thought out and dangerous for the state of our economy. This is the platform on which you're endorsing this party.

Read that quote on a little further, and you'll notice the most laughable part of the entire idea. The BNP wish to offer generous financial incentives both to individual people they deport and to the countries they deport them to. What sort of generous incentives would be enough to convince millions of people to tear up their lives and transport them elsewhere? What sort of donation would be sufficient to provide the needed infrastructure in their new homes? Let's not bullshit around the bush, the BNP are actually willing to bankroll the entire world just to keep the country white. Not only can the country simply not afford to do so, but to actually suggest such things in times of global financial meltdown smacks of insanity and obsession. Go on Newt, actually read their policies before you say they just want to "stop immigration". The numbers they're talking about don't even come close to current foreign aid or EU contributions. How can any party claim to be representative of British interests if it's willing to pay other countries just to take our citizens away?
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 22:36   #95
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Re: The BNP

Quoting one of the BNP policies I don't agree with myself - what do you want me to say?

No one here wants the BNP to get into power (out of the 5-10% that voted for them, I'd suspect maybe 0.1% want a BNP government). We want to use the BNP as a launchpad to make other parties turn England into Australia.

That means closed borders (or very strongly monitored immigration) - and forcing people to live in our way of life, or get the **** out. What I mean by that - eg, muslims are fine to practise their religion, etc - but they adhere to the english way of life.

It sickened me like mad when some troops arrived home from iraq.. or was it afghanistan? .. and you had a big bunch of muslims (maybe not muslims, but asians at least) chanting that they're murderers and such. That is a disgrace, they are not "british", and they should be deported asap. Every single last one of them and their immediate families.

Just imagine what would have happened if a bunch of english people had done that in muslim countries - unless the uk government stepped in to save them, they'd be facing serious shit. But no, we effectively let stuff like that go unpunished (I know a few of the ring leaders were found and 'questioned' eventually... wow!). Incase you think I'm exaggerating, I have lived in Saudi Arabia, Oman and Brunei - during which time there were insanely racist stuff done by the muslims. Best was in Brunei, they banned inter-religion marriages - if you married a muslim, you had to convert to islam yourself. They didn't let the law be known - so in the middle of the night imprisoned an english shell employee. Luckily shell ofc stepped in and that guy got given a ludicrously high paid job with Norway shell. I kind of wish that had happened to my family mmmmmmmmoney.

My point is, extremely bad racism is everywhere, especially in all countries under islamic rule. But the second anything remotely racist (even if its in the form of a necessary evil) happens in this country - wow! The liberals go crazy.

Also, if a bunch of completely white people (lets say the BNP!) paraded aaginst a dominantly black group of people, the newspapers would go bezerk about racism this and that. No ones accused those muslims of racism... weird.

edit: incase youre thinking "ha proof newt is racist" - anyone that knows me can confirm I would actually give anything to live in a country like brunei. There is 0 crime (leave your doors wide open at night and such), beautiful weather, very pleasant people. Quality of life out there, if you're ok with no night life, is amazing. But how can that be with such a racist and fascist 'government'?!?!?!?

Last edited by newt; 8 Jun 2009 at 22:58.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 23:00   #96
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Re: The BNP

I'm a humanist, and frankly it's bullshit wherever it happens. I don't agree with Arab racism any more than I agree with English racism, and arguing with straw men is generally a waste of time.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 23:05   #97
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Re: The BNP

Your mum needs to sit you down and tell you that there's no such thing as an ideal world. Bad stuff happens, and sometimes for the greater good.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 23:11   #98
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Re: The BNP

Course it does, but I don't have to accept it.

Edit: your post also acts as a rebuttal for the BNP's entire raison d'etre. It's not a fair world, but they claim to want to create one (at least if you have the right coloured skin!)
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Last edited by Tommy; 8 Jun 2009 at 23:20.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 23:30   #99
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Re: The BNP

Not really. "bad things happen, sometimes for the greater good" does not justify effective genocide. It does justify, for example (in my opinion), kicking out all those riotting muslims + their families, when all but those actually protesting are probably decent members of society.
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Unread 8 Jun 2009, 23:40   #100
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Re: The BNP

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post

No one here wants the BNP to get into power (out of the 5-10% that voted for them, I'd suspect maybe 0.1% want a BNP government). We want to use the BNP as a launchpad to make other parties turn England into Australia.

australia is riven with racial tension - i for one wouldnt like my country to be ilke that.

and how many BNP supporters do you actually know (not back seat intellectuals, actual grass roots supporters) i think you will find that most people who vote for them actually DO want them in power... which is a worrying thing, as most don't put the spin on their policies that you do... but actively and wholeheartedly believe in those policies. See nick griffin himself, an unashamed racist not in an intelectual way, but in a violent and singleminded way who truly BELIEVES in the policies he puts forward, again, i will repeat here (as its kind of the thrust of what im trying to say)
the BNP dont have these policies in an attempt to stimulate debate, they dont have these policies in an attempt to prove that democratically they are a viable party, they have these policies because most of them are RACIST and genuinely want everyone who they dont believe belongs here (and thats another key that kind of gives away their racism - who decides who is british and who isnt, because the BNP dont actually care how many generations you have been here, if you aint white they dont want you and yes light, that includes all those fancy foreign doctors) to be sent back to whereever the BNP believe they belong.


the BNP is currently on a political campaign (and has been for some years now) to make itself electable, and to do this it has ameliorated the worst of its policies - at least in theory - but if you actually talk to their politicians and grass roots supporters (some of which are really quite intelligent, respectable middle class citizens who you wouldnt expect to be supporting the BNP, a victory for their reinvention of themselves that should worry most people) you will realise that a lot of the old school of BNP (such as nick griffin and the rest of their high command/inner circle/whatever the hell you want to call them) are truly, scarily, totally and unashamedly racist, and nothing you can say or do will change this
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