USA can blame themselves for Katrina?

[Treveler]

I see that the German minister of environment claims that the states can only blame themselves for hurricanes such as Katrina. While we see an increase in the global temperature (most scientist agree now that this is due to human influence) which in turn increase the amount of extreme weather, The USA still refuse to take part in the Kyoto-agreement and the German minister state that the average American emission 2.5 times the amount of the dangerous gasses compared to the average German citizen.

Does he step over the line with these claims or does he have a valid point?

[Knight Theamion]

He has a valid point, albeit being a bit 'unsubtle' about it, and far fetched.

However, I support anyone slagging off and provoking the US like that.

[Deffeh]

for once, i fully agree with theamion

[dda]

Probably a personal plot on the part of George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld and Condy Rice to take over the world. Someone call Jack Ryan, Dirk Pitt, James Bond and Austin Powers!

Personally, I blame the French for building the town in what they should have understood would be the path of a massive hurricane a few centuries in the future.

[Treveler]

I for one cant help feel that this is mother nature doing some payback. Maybe this is what it takes for the Bush administration to open their eyes?

[LHC]

Maybe we should blame the neanderthal man for inventing fire.

[Madina]

Originally Posted by LHC

Maybe we should blame the neanderthal man for inventing fire.

They arent around to blame

[wu_trax]

i thought the same thing. its a pity they dont get hit more often by such things. if only the economical costs of such desasters would be high enough, even bush would understand that sooner or later something needs to be done.

[dda]

I always fill up my car with ARCO gasoline. ARCO is a subsidiary of British Petroleum so I shall blame my part of the problem on the British.

[LHC]

Is there a joke about Katrina and the Waves yet?

[Cuddley_Battleship]

Way out of line. A 5% (or whatever single digit number it was) decrease in CO2 would do nothing, and the average US citizen doesn't create more, it's heavy industry that creates the gap. Just an average European spouting out the OMG YOU FAT STUPID YANKS DIDNT ADOPT OUR BELOVED TREATY THAT NO ONE ELSE IS GOING TO FOLLOW EITHER OMG OMG!!!!111 routine. Regarding temperature change, if you look at findings from things like ice cores from the poles, it shows that the last ~10,000 years have been somewhat stable, but before that the temperature varied greatly from year to year. Just because there is a small change doesn't mean it is our own CO2 causing it. Especially when there are factors like records only going back to the 1800's and natural sources of gasses like volcanoes mixed in.

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

Originally Posted by Treveler

I see that the German minister of environment claims that the states can only blame themselves for hurricanes such as Katrina.

what a load of bollocks

[All Systems Go]

If that is indeed what he said (link please) then he is full of shit. Yes, the American attitude is not helping the situation but if he is saying that if they had adopted Kyoto or whatever then this would not have happened then he is off his rocker.

[KoeN]

the USA not having signed the Kyoto-agreement has very little to do with this all. in fact the whole agreement has very little influence on global warming to begin with.

apart from that, they aren't the only big nation that didn't sign it.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Cuddley_Battleship

Just an average European spouting out the OMG YOU FAT STUPID YANKS DIDNT ADOPT OUR BELOVED TREATY

*cough*

american geography as good as ever i see

[wu_trax]

well, we are in the middle of an elections campaign after all (i didnt read anything about this though, but he is just the kind of guy to say such things)
and yes, maybe it was somewhat over the top. however, he is right in sofar as if the emissions are not reduced we can expect a lot more of these extreme weather conditions.

[queball]

If the Americans weren't there, the hurricane wouldn't have hit them.

[Treveler]

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

If that is indeed what he said (link please) then he is full of shit. Yes, the American attitude is not helping the situation but if he is saying that if they had adopted Kyoto or whatever then this would not have happened then he is off his rocker.

I read it in a Norwegian inet paper quoting NTB

http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=288558

[Cannon_Fodder]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

*cough*

american geography as good as ever i see

What?

[dda]

I think he is pointing out that Kyoto is in Japan.

[QazokRouge5]

Originally Posted by Treveler

I see that the German minister of environment claims that the states can only blame themselves for hurricanes such as Katrina. While we see an increase in the global temperature (most scientist agree now that this is due to human influence) which in turn increase the amount of extreme weather, The USA still refuse to take part in the Kyoto-agreement and the German minister state that the average American emission 2.5 times the amount of the dangerous gasses compared to the average German citizen.

Does he step over the line with these claims or does he have a valid point?

No.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by queball

If the Americans weren't there, the hurricane wouldn't have hit them.

Ah but if the Americans weren't there would there have been a hurricane?

[queball]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Ah but if the Americans weren't there would there have been a hurricane?

Yes, but it wouldn't make a noise.

[G.K Zhukov]

It's just God trying to punish Satan's worshipers!

[JammyJim]

It seems somewhat stupid to blame Americans for a hurricane.....

OMG ITS TEH ACT OF GOD. YOU BETTER CHANGE YOUR WAYS OR HE WILL SEND A PLAGUE OF LOCUSTS TOO!


Im curious to see what they are going to do about the mess seeing as 1million people are without power and thousands are without food or medical services. Id imagine full scale army deployment is around the corner.

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by Cuddley_Battleship

Way out of line. A 5% (or whatever single digit number it was) decrease in CO2 would do nothing, and the average US citizen doesn't create more, it's heavy industry that creates the gap. Just an average European spouting out the OMG YOU FAT STUPID YANKS DIDNT ADOPT OUR BELOVED TREATY THAT NO ONE ELSE IS GOING TO FOLLOW EITHER OMG OMG!!!!111 routine. Regarding temperature change, if you look at findings from things like ice cores from the poles, it shows that the last ~10,000 years have been somewhat stable, but before that the temperature varied greatly from year to year. Just because there is a small change doesn't mean it is our own CO2 causing it. Especially when there are factors like records only going back to the 1800's and natural sources of gasses like volcanoes mixed in.

You manage to **** up without even being provoked.


Facts:

1. Scientifically it is becoming more and more accepted that the earth is heating up faster at this moment then we should be. Yes, we should be heating up, but not this fast.
2. The average US Citizen produces more CO2 then the average European citizen because of a few simple facts, for instance, your engines aren't that efficient, in fact, American car engines are ****ing stupid, your petrol prices are way lower, so you lot automatically use more per inhabitant. Your country is more stretched, which means that on average, more travelling has to be done and because of the scale, stuff gets inefficient. You know, that kind of stuff.
3. The heavy industry is part of your country, you cannot say that it isn't. Actually it makes you kind of an oppurtunical bastard if you try to reason that 'we do not do anything wrong, only our heavy industry is', while 'you' and 'your heavy industry' are part of the same 'great nation'

but other then that, please do continue cocking up.

[dda]

Originally Posted by JammyJim

OMG ITS TEH WEATHER AIDS!.

[JammyJim]

[quote=Knight Theamion]You manage to **** up without even being provoked.


Facts:

1. The average US Citizen produces more CO2 then the average European citizen because of a few simple facts, for instance, your engines aren't that efficient, in fact, American car engines are ****ing stupid, your petrol prices are way lower, so you lot automatically use more per inhabitant. Your country is more stretched, which means that on average, more travelling has to be done and because of the scale, stuff gets inefficient. You know, that kind of stuff.
   

[quote]




I had two mates over in florida this year and i had forgotten just how stupid i sound when i say 'oh its just round the corner' as we jump into the car and then drive for 10minutes before we get to wherever it is we are going.

You cant walk anywhere unless you live in a POD community (ring of homes then ring of shops then ring of homes etc) so your forced to take the car.

And everything is stretched out because of the zoning laws. I mean you might get a 'local' supermarket or shop but to get to things like electrical retailers or bookstores or infact the mall it involves at least 30 minutes of driving on busy roads.

As for gas prices. Its over 3 bucks a gallon now and had gone up more than 40 cents in just the month that i was over there for which is truly increadible. (this was before the hurricane too).

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by JammyJim

You cant walk anywhere unless you live in a POD community (ring of homes then ring of shops then ring of homes etc) so your forced to take the car.

And everything is stretched out because of the zoning laws. I mean you might get a 'local' supermarket or shop but to get to things like electrical retailers or bookstores or infact the mall it involves at least 30 minutes of driving on busy roads.

and who's fault is that exactly?

[vampire_lestat]

yours?

[meglamaniac]

While you obviously can't blame the USA for the hurricane - in fact developing nations + china are rapidly becomming more of an issue - the events of Katrina as well as rising fuel costs in general will hopefully serve as a wakeup call to many "average Joes" across the pond.
Some vital concepts are yet to be understood by most of the US, the primary one being fuel efficiency. While over here in the UK we gawp at a 3 litre engine as being overkill, that's somewhere around the mean point for the US car industry. The fact of the matter is that if US car engines were power stations, they'd be bankrupt due to the laughable conversion rate of fuel to electricity. Europe is lightyears ahead in terms of efficiency, and these rising "gas" prices can only serve to make efficient cars more attractive to the buying American public. God forbid what it would be like if they had to pay the prices we do, but I really hope it does come to that just to teach them the lesson.

Aside from that, industry really does need dealing with as well, although that's not going to happen with a Republican in office.

[JammyJim]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

and who's fault is that exactly?

City planning officials?

[vampire_lestat]

I don't really get the american paries, but what i've gathered is that the republicans are like the BNP, and the democrats are like the tories, is that about right?

[meglamaniac]

More or less.
Republicans are "anyone who messes with big business must be lynched, and Enron was a figment of your imagination", Democrats are "big business is great but in extreme circumstances might need a bit of regulation".

[vampire_lestat]

is there no political middle ground (or even, shock horror) left in america then?

[Phil^]

i think its been bred out of them
either that or anyone who used to be on the left or centre ground has left the country for greener pastures

[vampire_lestat]

how quaint.

[QazokRouge5]

As one of the Americans who has family in Gulf Port that I havent been able to contact or hear from I'm now telling anyone who agrees with the twat who started this thread to go **** themselves. thanks!

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by QazokRouge5

As one of the Americans who has family in Gulf Port that I havent been able to contact or hear from I'm now telling anyone who agrees with the twat who started this thread to go **** themselves. thanks!

Start selecting flowers and music.

[Yahwe]

Britain will be only to happy to lease/lend you all the aid you may need

[Phil^]

Originally Posted by QazokRouge5

As one of the Americans who has family in Gulf Port that I havent been able to contact or hear from I'm now telling anyone who agrees with the twat who started this thread to go **** themselves. thanks!

the cell phone networks are sorta... fked over there atm.
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?si...id=215&tid=218
Theres probably a heck of a lot of people in the same situation but given the body count is 'only' around 80 so far, and the fact theres 1000's of people in that area i think the balance of probability is on your side that they survived, and its just they havent been able to contact the outside world yet.

btw - i tend to agree with ' the twat who started the thread ' , americans have to realise their actions contribute to global warming - and the weather is how the planet shifts this heat around the globe. The more heat there is, the more energetic and thus severe the weather becomes.

That said, if the german minister was attempting to imply that this could have been avoided by the states signing kyoto, then he is rather mad.
weather is notoriously unpredictable long-term. Even short term predictions are little more then educated guesses.

[dda]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

and who's fault is that exactly?

Geography.

[meglamaniac]

Originally Posted by QazokRouge5

As one of the Americans who has family in Gulf Port that I havent been able to contact or hear from I'm now telling anyone who agrees with the twat who started this thread to go **** themselves. thanks!

Kindly explain how it is possible to agree with a question.

[Phil^]

megla :
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...97&postcount=5

he gave his opinion later in the thread

[dda]

Originally Posted by QazokRouge5

As one of the Americans who has family in Gulf Port that I havent been able to contact or hear from I'm now telling anyone who agrees with the twat who started this thread to go **** themselves. thanks!

A woman who used to work in my office but then went to a state office, recently came through our office and was talking about how she had just retired and had built a new house and was going to move there and live. I was rather envious at the time. The woman moved to Gulfport. I am less envious now.

[QazokRouge5]

Originally Posted by Phil^

the cell phone networks are sorta... fked over there atm.
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?si...id=215&tid=218
Theres probably a heck of a lot of people in the same situation but given the body count is 'only' around 80 so far, and the fact theres 1000's of people in that area i think the balance of probability is on your side that they survived, and its just they havent been able to contact the outside world yet.

btw - i tend to agree with ' the twat who started the thread ' , americans have to realise their actions contribute to global warming - and the weather is how the planet shifts this heat around the globe. The more heat there is, the more energetic and thus severe the weather becomes.

That said, if the german minister was attempting to imply that this could have been avoided by the states signing kyoto, then he is rather mad.
weather is notoriously unpredictable long-term. Even short term predictions are little more then educated guesses.

PERHAPS YOU ****S HAVE ALL FORGOTTEN THAT AMERICANS AREN'T THE ONLY PEOPLE LIVING ON THIS ****ING PLANET. BRITISH, FRENCH, GERMAN, JAPANESE, CHINESE, BLACKS, SWEDISH, SPANISH, MEXICANS AND CANADIANS LIVE HERE TOO MOTHER ****ERS. DON'T YOU THINK THEY HAVE SOME CONTRIBUTION ALSO? OR ARE YOU ALL TOO HIGH AND MIGHTY WITH YOUR ODORLESS FECES?

[QazokRouge5]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

Britain will be only to happy to lease/lend you all the aid you may need

After all the aid we have lent britain over the years they damn well should.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by QazokRouge5

PERHAPS YOU ****S HAVE ALL FORGOTTEN THAT AMERICANS AREN'T THE ONLY PEOPLE LIVING ON THIS ****ING PLANET. BRITISH, FRENCH, GERMAN, JAPANESE, CHINESE, BLACKS, SWEDISH, SPANISH, MEXICANS AND CANADIANS LIVE HERE TOO MOTHER ****ERS. DON'T YOU THINK THEY HAVE SOME CONTRIBUTION ALSO? OR ARE YOU ALL TOO HIGH AND MIGHTY WITH YOUR ODORLESS FECES?

The best moment on the internet this year came when qazokrouge4 of the planetarion general discussions forum claimed that black people weren't American.


The second best was the news that qazokrouge4 had been savagely mutilated by a pack of wandering coyotes.

[QazokRouge5]

I'm Qazokrouge5, ****tard.

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by QazokRouge5

PERHAPS YOU ****S HAVE ALL FORGOTTEN THAT AMERICANS AREN'T THE ONLY PEOPLE LIVING ON THIS ****ING PLANET. BRITISH, FRENCH, GERMAN, JAPANESE, CHINESE, BLACKS, SWEDISH, SPANISH, MEXICANS AND CANADIANS LIVE HERE TOO MOTHER ****ERS. DON'T YOU THINK THEY HAVE SOME CONTRIBUTION ALSO? OR ARE YOU ALL TOO HIGH AND MIGHTY WITH YOUR ODORLESS FECES?

you should be shot. ofc, that would free all the CO2 in the area of your body where your brain should be, but i guess we just have to live with that.