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16 Jul 2005, 17:51
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#1
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Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
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Afraid of Muslims?.
The recent events in London, and the subsequent investigation in Leeds (my home City) has left an irrational fear in its wake.
This week my Wife took our pet dog to the vet (he is now missing a pair of knackers) and in doing so had to travel through a part of the city which has a large Asian community (not all Muslim, but a good percentage)
After dropping the dog in at the vet, she decided to walk back through the park and drop in our Son and his wife, in doing so she passed by quite a lot of young Asian men, some in traditional dress that you would assume to be of the Muslim faith.
She told me she felt quite fearful, and that (quite irrationally) she was afraid they might be suicide bombers.
My wife is by no means racist or anti muslim, (nor am I) but for her to feel this whilst walking in an area where she grew up and has known for her whole life, makes you realise the real damage caused by these terrorists.
However she says even with her fears, she will still walk in that area and carry on her daily life regardless, otherwise they have won. (the terrorists that is)
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16 Jul 2005, 17:57
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#2
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Ajaj Kapten!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 638
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
she wasn't afraid that they might attack her specifically, she was afraid that they might become suicidebombers? Was she afraid that they might blow themselves up their, in that neighberhood?
__________________
Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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16 Jul 2005, 18:00
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#3
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Im not afraid of muslims, im afraid of Islam. Its not their fault they're brainwashed by that ****ing crap. Some of the suicide bombers not only wasted innocent lives but wasted their own lives on the perverted teachings of Islam. Its a degrading and vicious religion in the wrong hands (And merely degrading in the right hands). Im not bigging up Christianity, but The "Christian west", you and me, have moved forward into a more enlightened age. We took from Christianity a vague moral code and left the crap behind.
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
And i wanna be someone, to believe, to believe in
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16 Jul 2005, 18:05
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#4
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Mathamagician
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At the very edge of existance
Posts: 1,803
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
tell that to good ol' Junior.
__________________
I think I just had an evilgasm
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16 Jul 2005, 18:06
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#5
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Toon Forever
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 42
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
I think the subsequent fear after this attack is greater than other terrorist attacks because the bombers were british citizens. In 9/11 the bombers were of afghan origin and were not permanent residents in the US. This is more akin to when the IRA were planting bombs on mainland Britain. It's the fear that a person could look perfectly normal but could turn on their own soceity.
But the signals that an attack from within our own country have been clear for a long time. The Guantanamo Bay detainees who were fighting against our own troops in afghanistan proved that some misguided muslims do not believe they are part of this country at all. That is what I believe scares people, that the next attackers will more than likely already be here.
__________________
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
- Sir Winston Churchill
===Legend===
"One minute I'm waiting for Kate to arrive to join me in the Jacuzzi for a romantic evening. The next thing I can remember is doing cold turkey in a vomit-filled cell"
- Pete Doherty
<<<Not Legend>>>
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16 Jul 2005, 18:16
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 482
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Can you imagine how uncomfortable it must be for a Muslim travelling on public transport carrying a rucksack?
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16 Jul 2005, 18:19
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#7
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
Im not afraid of muslims, im afraid of Islam. Its not their fault they're brainwashed by that ****ing crap. Some of the suicide bombers not only wasted innocent lives but wasted their own lives on the perverted teachings of Islam. Its a degrading and vicious religion in the wrong hands (And merely degrading in the right hands). Im not bigging up Christianity, but The "Christian west", you and me, have moved forward into a more enlightened age. We took from Christianity a vague moral code and left the crap behind.
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Suicide bombers arent really muslim either. Theyve been brainwashed by the groups which train them to kill others for political means.
Christianity isnt any better either. words such as 'the crusades' or ' the water test' ring a bell?
In any religion there are always utter nutjobs who go to extremes. That doesnt mean the religion itself is bad ( Though personally i think all religions are, since i consider them little more then a method of control )
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16 Jul 2005, 18:19
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#8
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
I don't have a problem with individual Muslims. I know quite a few Muslims and get on well with all of those that I've spoken to.
But Deffeh's right.
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16 Jul 2005, 18:19
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#9
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Christianity isnt any better either. words such as 'the crusades' or ' the water test' ring a bell?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
I Im not bigging up Christianity, but The "Christian west", you and me, have moved forward into a more enlightened age. We took from Christianity a vague moral code and left the crap behind.
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16 Jul 2005, 18:53
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#10
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Mathamagician
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At the very edge of existance
Posts: 1,803
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sword
Can you imagine how uncomfortable it must be for a Muslim travelling on public transport carrying a rucksack?
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not nearly as uncomfortable as the person sat next to him?
__________________
I think I just had an evilgasm
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16 Jul 2005, 18:58
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#11
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Yeah, but the Muslim with a rucksack isn't being a racist.
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16 Jul 2005, 19:10
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#12
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viceroy
I think the subsequent fear after this attack is greater than other terrorist attacks because the bombers were british citizens
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Most of the (poor) media coverage in the aftermath of the bombings has centred on how "British" people could do this. They (i.e. the government / press) didn't get the memo that national identity has been on the decline for some time. No amount of "citizenship classes" or pledges of alleigances are going to resurrect it.
As for the original topic I'm not "afraid" of either Islam or Muslims generally. The chances of being hurt in a suicide bombing seem statistically slight. I would only become concerned if general ethnic fighting escalated out of control. Such things could conceivably occur in the future. For instance, in Scotland there was an incident where some Asian guys got into a fight in a night-club with some white guys or something and then took "revenge" by killing a random white kid they came across later.
Similarly, in Holland after the film-maker was killed I am told there was some small scale attacks on mosque's which then prompted a couple of instances of counter-attacks on churches.
In both cases that was the end of it, the rule of law intervened or cooler heads prevailed. But if that sort of intervention fails / breaks down then things can start escalating dramatically. The rumour mill starts going and then the logic of conflict can set it and it can become almost rational to pre-emptively form into "gangs" and go looking for the other side and that sort of thing. Then I might be scared. But for now that seems quite a while away.
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16 Jul 2005, 19:11
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#13
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
Yeah, but the Muslim with a rucksack isn't being a racist.
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Does that really matter?
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16 Jul 2005, 19:27
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#14
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wild one
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: River Edge, NJ
Posts: 3,313
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
I'm afraid of Baron Morte and his quest for more sex
I wonder how that's going...
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16 Jul 2005, 19:29
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#15
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Hamster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Crewe, England
Posts: 3,606
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
Im not afraid of muslims, im afraid of Islam. Its not their fault they're brainwashed by that ****ing crap. Some of the suicide bombers not only wasted innocent lives but wasted their own lives on the perverted teachings of Islam. Its a degrading and vicious religion in the wrong hands (And merely degrading in the right hands). Im not bigging up Christianity, but The "Christian west", you and me, have moved forward into a more enlightened age. We took from Christianity a vague moral code and left the crap behind.
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Its bullshit like your spouting which helps breed many of these problems. You start spouting about how islam is an 'evil' religion that brainwashes people into becoming suicide bombers but thats not what Islam is about. Your taring the majority of followers of Islam with the same brush as a small bunch of extreamists who take an extreamly distorted interpretation of the Koran. Its these extreamists whom are the problem not islam as a whole. I would actually go as far as saying even these extreamists wouldnt be a problem on their own, these extreamists are often just pawns in criminals like Bin ladens games. These criminals prey on those whom are weak willed and use insecurities they have with society to get them to carry out their dirty work.
However as others have pointed out these extreamists and the people whom prey on them arent unique to islam, Christianity is littered with them throughout history and still has such extreamists doing things in the name of christianity.
Anyway people shouldnt start being anti islamic because of this and they shouldnt start being scared of muslims (after all your probally more likly to be killed by a christian in this country than you are a muslim and certainly more likly to be than ny an islamic extreamist). If we let hatred to be breed by actions like this your letting the terrorist to win and your also making it easier for them to recruit more people to carry out their tasks because you help build up the insecurialities on the muslim communities which they can use to turn teh weak minded to extreamists
__________________
Wakey
PD and Suggestions Moderator
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The Farnborough Crew
Cos anything else is just an alliance
Join our public channel at #f-crew
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16 Jul 2005, 19:32
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#16
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
That doesn't look like what Deffeh meant to me.
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16 Jul 2005, 19:38
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#17
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
he should have made himself more clear then. from what i can see, wakeys analysis of what deffeh said is spot on.
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16 Jul 2005, 19:42
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#18
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Its bullshit like your spouting which helps breed many of these problems. You start spouting about how islam is an 'evil' religion that brainwashes people into becoming suicide bombers but thats not what Islam is about.
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He never said it was an evil religion.
Quote:
Your taring the majority of followers of Islam with the same brush as a small bunch of extreamists who take an extreamly distorted interpretation of the Koran.
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No he's not. Note he's talking about the religion NOT the followers.
Quote:
However as others have pointed out these extreamists and the people whom prey on them arent unique to islam, Christianity is littered with them throughout history and still has such extreamists doing things in the name of christianity.
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Oh, that makes it OK then.
Quote:
If we let hatred to be breed by actions like this your letting the terrorist to win and your also making it easier for them to recruit more people to carry out their tasks because you help build up the insecurialities on the muslim communities which they can use to turn teh weak minded to extreamists
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What hatred? Islam is a shit religion. I don't hate any muslims, most of them seem fairly nice, but that doesn't stop their religion being shit. Same with Christianity.
And one of the reason they are "weak minded" is they are religious. Hell, if I was brought up to believe there was a guy on a cloud controlling my destiny could you blame me for lacking proper critical faculties?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
he should have made himself more clear then. from what i can see, wakeys analysis of what deffeh said is spot on.
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Deffeh's post was perfectly clear, it's only emotive self-righteous misreading of his post that's to blame.
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16 Jul 2005, 19:45
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#19
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quite clearly it wasnt. Regardless of the 9/11 or 7/7 attacks i would still consider myself "distrustful" of Islam. You can call me what you want, but i'm not about to practice toleration of the intolerant. Believe me when i say i understand that extremists of whatever creed are dangerous, indefensible, and not typical of their religions/races as a whole.
However, how can you defend the Islamic treatment of women in this day and age, for example?
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
And i wanna be someone, to believe, to believe in
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16 Jul 2005, 19:49
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#20
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Christianity is littered with them throughout history and still has such extreamists doing things in the name of christianity.
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The movie 'Contact' has SUCH a good example of one such extremist, despite it being fiction it illustrates what christian extremists are like
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16 Jul 2005, 19:51
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#21
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Don't make me declare war
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,913
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Its just a lack of knowledge that leads to all this, simple as that.
People get scared because they dont know, or misunderstand, the truths and facts.
Whilst we are at it, should be be condeming the irish, they ahve blown up plenty of innocents, and they still kill people today with thier rioting. (I condemn neither islam, nor the irish, for the record).
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16 Jul 2005, 19:53
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#22
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
I am not afraid of Muslims or Arabs or any other group when brought down to an individual level. However, to not be concerned and vigilant when the problem is clearly coming from a particular segment of society seems equally irrational.
One of the 9-11 bombers, Richard Reed and the London Bombers all come from the same mosque. Hardly a coincidence.
The Wahabi sect of Islam is extremely violent in its views, apparently.
Many mosques are preaching anti-western messages.
The main stream of the Muslim community has not come out strongly against such teachers or teachings.
How often have you heard of a mosque firing their imam for preaching hate and violence?
How often have you heard of muslims turning in other muslims because they were building bombs in their basement?
Until the Muslim community becomes more active in policing their own, people will continue to be concerned about them. And not irrationally so.
Most muslims are not jihadists. However, they have a responsibilty to weed the jihadists out or they will continue to suffer from group suspicion.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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16 Jul 2005, 19:55
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#23
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
Whilst we are at it, should be be condeming the irish, they ahve blown up plenty of innocents, and they still kill people today with thier rioting. (I condemn neither islam, nor the irish, for the record).
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This is relatively simple. There are acts carried out by individuals. These individuals are members of groups. It is generally fallacious to condemn a group on the whole based on the behaviour of some of it's members ; e.g. "I hate all black people because once a black person mugged me."
However, it is perfectly reasonable to be critical of an ideology (or characteristic) that a group of people believe / share.
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16 Jul 2005, 19:57
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#24
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
makes you realise the real damage caused by these terrorists.
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I'd be more inclined to blame the media for her fear than any terrist.
__________________
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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16 Jul 2005, 20:01
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#25
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
For instance, in Scotland there was an incident where some Asian guys got into a fight in a night-club with some white guys or something and then took "revenge" by killing a random white kid they came across later.
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There was another case where a white kid was dating an asian guy's little sister.
Asian guy (and his cousins/friends) took exception to this.
They jumped the white kid and his pal, beat them up, the pal managed to escape but the boyfriend of the asian guys little sister wasn't so lucky.
The kid was given a severe beating, stabbed multiple times, had petrol poured over him and was set on fire.
The kid died.
"Welcome to Glasgow" etc.
__________________
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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16 Jul 2005, 20:15
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#26
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Don't make me declare war
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,913
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
This is relatively simple. There are acts carried out by individuals. These individuals are members of groups. It is generally fallacious to condemn a group on the whole based on the behaviour of some of it's members ; e.g. "I hate all black people because once a black person mugged me."
However, it is perfectly reasonable to be critical of an ideology (or characteristic) that a group of people believe / share.
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Please could you explain this a little deeper as i didnt get it.
Both islam, and certain irish ppl (lets say the IRA for arguments sake), are groups pf people who believe something, and use violence to try and get what they want.
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16 Jul 2005, 20:19
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#27
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
Please could you explain this a little deeper as i didnt get it.
Both islam, and certain irish ppl (lets say the IRA for arguments sake), are groups pf people who believe something, and use violence to try and get what they want.
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point 1. [islam/black people/jews/whatever] is/are not "evil".
point 2. however some [muslims/nigs] are "evil".
point 3. some aspects of [islam] merit criticism.
point 4. but points 2 and 3 do not lead to point 1.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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16 Jul 2005, 22:36
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Most muslims are not jihadists. However, they have a responsibilty to weed the jihadists out or they will continue to suffer from group suspicion.
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thee is an element of self-survival here and people would rather supress/deny the problem rather than deal with it and face criticism or embaessment.
Just look at the Catholic Church and it's relationship with paedophiles.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
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16 Jul 2005, 23:05
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#29
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Just look at the Catholic Church and it's relationship with paedophiles.
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You mean like this?
__________________
Finally free!
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16 Jul 2005, 23:08
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#30
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Nah im not. Im just a loony weeping heart lefty but a bunch of nutters who decide to blow themselves and a random selection of people up don't really scare me. They've been disowned by the majority of the adherents of the religion they say they represent. If i die in one of those attacks i die. Shows over and i won't give a ****.
Im still more 'scared' of the government and how much it can **** up my life. The terrorists can kill me, but they can't piss me about.
Regarding deffeh's post i don't think he was attacking muslims, he has a problem with islam as a religious ideology. There isn't anything wrong with that, although id say that moral code we took from christianity should have been left behind with the crap.
I don't 'get' islam* but that doesn't mean i can't accept that other people would, or that they'd need it in their lifes. As long as people do something of their own volition and live peacefully i couldn't give a **** and they shouldn't give a **** about me. Just because i don't get something doesn't mean im going to go out of my way to wind up and piss off everyone who does or is different to i am, i will obviously still critise and likewise be open to critism. But im not going to walk up to a random and perfectly innocous muslim and start ranting about how he/she should start thinking like me (or be afraid that they're about to blow me up), nor am i going to turn down the opportunity to learn about how different people life their lifes. Its all good.
* ie im not a muslim
__________________
Sophie is hotter than you
though ive gone off her now; the way Susanna Reid squirms around on sml is, however, awesome
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16 Jul 2005, 23:11
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#31
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
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/random
btw apparently before he was pope ratzinger (can't remember his pope name) wrote a letter praising how the secret and underhanded way that harry potter was corrupting the young was being exposed.
__________________
Sophie is hotter than you
though ive gone off her now; the way Susanna Reid squirms around on sml is, however, awesome
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16 Jul 2005, 23:16
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#32
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Now Judge.
These champs killed under 100 people.
Just imagine the fear coused by people in the 3rd world when they see some white european/american.
"Are they going to invade us now"
"I wonder if CIA is going to get the army to do a coup again"
Its not like the 1st world countries "limit" themselfs to killing under a 100 people.
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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16 Jul 2005, 23:23
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#33
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Judge wasn't saying that, his post was just specifically to what british people in light of recent events felt about muslims.
I think people are taking his post and some of those in this thread the wrong way.
__________________
Sophie is hotter than you
though ive gone off her now; the way Susanna Reid squirms around on sml is, however, awesome
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16 Jul 2005, 23:36
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#34
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
I'm afraid of teh muslims.
I'm afraid of teh world.
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17 Jul 2005, 00:39
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#35
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,635
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Agreeing with what Dante first posted.
I'm afriad of escalating social tension leading to violence, not muslims. I'm afriad of most large groups of youths hanging around on street corners be them white, black, brown or yellow.
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17 Jul 2005, 01:15
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#36
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
One of the 9-11 bombers, Richard Reed and the London Bombers all come from the same mosque. Hardly a coincidence.
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this is not known.
__________________
hi
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17 Jul 2005, 03:08
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#37
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
thee is an element of self-survival here and people would rather supress/deny the problem rather than deal with it and face criticism or embaessment.
Just look at the Catholic Church and it's relationship with paedophiles.
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Denying the truth to avoid criticism and embarrassment didn't work for the Catholic community either. In the long term, it just hurt them more.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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17 Jul 2005, 06:13
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Its the religious mindset thats the problem, rather any particular religion - the real danger stems from groups of people being prepared to accept large amounts of information entirely upon faith. The main difference between Christians and Muslims today is that Muslims generally tend to take their religion more seriously. This is probably more related to cultural factors rather than anything intrinsic to the religion itself.
So no, I'm not especially afraid of Muslims qua Muslims. However I am generally concerned about religious fundamentalists, and it just so happens that most of the dangerous ones today are Islamic.
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17 Jul 2005, 06:29
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#39
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USS Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,500
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
this is not known.
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It was on the news. The news is never wrong. If you don't believe me just ask them.
__________________
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
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17 Jul 2005, 07:32
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#40
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
In any religion there are always utter nutjobs who go to extremes. That doesnt mean the religion itself is bad ( Though personally i think all religions are, since i consider them little more then a method of control )
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"I'm not anti-semetic! I hate all religions equally!"
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Originally Posted by dda
How often have you heard of muslims turning in other muslims because they were building bombs in their basement?
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Obviously, this wouldnt happen very often. Firstly, if i was a terrorist building a bomb or some other nefarious activity, i would insist on absolute secrecy as that obviously increases the chances of success. The saying 'Two men can keep a secret - so long as one of them is dead' is especially descriptive here. Total secrecy, however, isnt Islam-specific. Or even Jihad-specific. It would apply to anyone who is planning an act like a bombing - or even bank robbing.
Furthermore, it would be in the Police's and/or MI5 (et al) own best interests to keep the fact that individuals are reporting on eachother secret. This is to 1) promote whistleblowing, 2) dont tip of the terrorists, 3) make terrorists who have not been tipped off, wonder whether they have or not, etc.
So, its not overly suprising that this is rare as secrecy benefits all involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
However, how can you defend the Islamic treatment of women in this day and age, for example?
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Well, some definitions of terrorism are quite broad and far reaching - such as 'Terrorism is any action that causes terror'. An interesting point a professor of mine made, was that its all too common these days to see terrorism as a one way thing - ie they are terrorists and are evil, and we are the good guys and not evil. It is rare that somone declares that "i am a terrorist" and/or is proud of that fact.
However useful that type of thinking is to describe terrorism in this modern era, it only takes a small leap of the imagination about how our response to such terrorism is perceived - ie, the invasion/occupation of Iraq caused terror in the civilian population and thus could be described as 'State terrorism' - ie Acts of terrorism perpetrated by a State upon another State or Individuals.
But that too, could be too limited a perception. Whilst a fairly big burly bloke myself (208cm tall, 128kg), i hear many stories from girl friends of mine who are concerned about walking in darkened streets at night on their own. Granted, (at least in Perth), the likelihood that she will be jumped is very small, there is still the fear of the act. That fear is generally centred on men taking advantage of her. Now in a way, that could also be Terrorism (an action that causes terror) - but terrorism that is often overlooked in today;s society. In that regard - if women in our modern, democratic, (largely) free, open, capitalistic society are terrorised by men simply by walking down a street - how far have we really come?
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#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
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"The Cake is a Lie."
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17 Jul 2005, 10:26
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#41
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
Im not bigging up Christianity, but The "Christian west", you and me, have moved forward into a more enlightened age.
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The Klan haven't, and they bear the same resemblance to mainstream Christianity as Islamic fundamentalists do to mainstream Islam. How much do you think it would take to get the left and right footers up in arms again in Northern Ireland? Christian Identity and the Lord's Resistance Army are still active, do they not count?
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ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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17 Jul 2005, 11:39
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#42
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Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
Judge wasn't saying that, his post was just specifically to what british people in light of recent events felt about muslims.
I think people are taking his post and some of those in this thread the wrong way.
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Indeed,
My post was a personal reflection on how the events have affected my wife, and her perception of fear, even when there is no rational reason to fear.
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17 Jul 2005, 11:52
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#43
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Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
However, how can you defend the Islamic treatment of women in this day and age, for example?
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I assume you mean our percieved oppression of Muslim Women.
Islam does not oppress women, the Qur'an specifically states that women must be treated equally in all respects of the (holy) law.
The fact that some groups within Islam insist that a Woman must cover herself or cannot be alone with a man (unless it is her Husband or family member) is a particular tribal trait, and is not a condition of Islam.
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17 Jul 2005, 12:07
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#44
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,635
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
Im not bigging up Christianity, but The "Christian west", you and me, have moved forward into a more enlightened age.
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The age of enlightenment!
Possible age of enlightenment joke hello.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
You can call me what you want, but i'm not about to practice toleration of the intolerant.
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Also, how is Islam intolerant?
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17 Jul 2005, 12:17
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#45
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Dum Di Dum Di
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 858
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
The fact that some groups within Islam insist that a Woman must cover herself or cannot be alone with a man (unless it is her Husband or family member) is a particular tribal trait, and is not a condition of Islam.
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'Some' as in 'nearly all' yes. Revisionism is fun.
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17 Jul 2005, 12:27
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#46
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Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyfe
'Some' as in 'nearly all' yes. Revisionism is fun.
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It wouldnt matter if it was "all" or none, the fact remains that it is not a condition of Islam (The Qu'ran) that women should fully cover themselves. It is how various groups interperate the words of the Qu'ran.
The Qu'ran in regard to women says that they should dress modestly, and behave in a manner that is not lewd.
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17 Jul 2005, 14:16
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 278
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
No matter what you say getting on a plane after 9/11 and seeing a guy in tradition muslim dress is going to pucker up those butt cheeks, however irrational it may seem.
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Laguna Bay Condominium
Last edited by ceres; 31 Aug 2011 at 07:05.
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17 Jul 2005, 14:21
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#48
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres
No matter what you say getting on a plane after 9/11 and seeing a guy in tradition muslim dress is going to pucker up those butt cheeks, however irrational it may seem.
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for you, maybe.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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17 Jul 2005, 14:31
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#49
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Registered Abuser
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lincoln!!
Posts: 425
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
Yeah, but the Muslim with a rucksack isn't being a racist.
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I was on the bus at rush hour yesterday going into Birmingham city centre to meet my GF at New Street station and a muslim woman in full dress sat behind me, she was carrying a large bag and i can say i was seriously considering the possibility of that bag containing a bomb. Does this make me racist?
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The hungriest man will eat the dirtiest meat.
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17 Jul 2005, 15:49
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#50
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Re: Afraid of Muslims?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres
No matter what you say getting on a plane after 9/11 and seeing a guy in tradition muslim dress is going to pucker up those butt cheeks, however irrational it may seem.
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it would be the exact opposite with me, the 9/11 hijackers the london bombers in fact all of the bombers i can remember dressed 'normally'. The 9/11 hijackers didn't even look like 'arabs' (iirc from people they came across eg martial arts trainers being interview, apparently mexicans look darker). Its fairly obvious that someone who stands out is going to draw attention, and indanger their operation. So they don't stand out, either in the way they dress, act or look.
If a 'muslim looking' person sat next to me (and they have) i actually feel safer.
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Sophie is hotter than you
though ive gone off her now; the way Susanna Reid squirms around on sml is, however, awesome
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