Round 13 predictions

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Gate

So we should never try?




LCH, Mistu, VisioN were all hitting ND, and hard, when LCH were still quite a bit in the lead. They continued hitting us through 1up taking the lead, and after this, using propaganda attempts in the same vein as your post to say that we were ruining the round by not bending over and giving the round to LCH, because they gave up their lead to make sure ND couldn't win.

If your alliance was 3rd, your closest allies were 2nd, and the top alliance, in concert with several other big alliances were concentrating on you instead of the second, and continued to do so, then implied that there was an ultimatum... 'give us the round, or we'll keep hitting you', you'd timidly back down and give them the round?
ND's chance of finishing 3rd was put under threat by continual LCH bashing, but we were confident that we could hold the line against HR steaming up behind us, and perhaps even overtake LCH (And we would have, had elviz been deleted for farming instead of getting away with it. And yes, I know he may not have been farming, but I'm not in the mood to argue in the face of the damning evidence that I witnessed, unless the PBs make it policy to try and roid each other)...

The alternative was to turn on 1up, and even though I believe that 1up are competent enough to fight for their position, instead of inanely concentrating on getting revenge on ND, they wouldn't have continued pegging back HR (Which really helped ND maintain their position whilst we were on the back foot), and would instead have most likely hit ND too. LCH's plan was no more honourable than ND, and they underestimated out 'testicular fortitude' IMO

ND ruined the round by blocking with 1up. Plain and simple. They thought in doing so they could ride 1ups back to #1, didnt happen. I think most of the universe would have rather see 1up win then you pansies, who needed ride coat tails to try and get a win.

[The_Fish]

Such a hypocritical view, you think LCH didn't have any naps during the round? Or that HR didn't? MISTU maybe didn't?

EVERYONE had naps at some stage during the round.

[alch]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

You're honestly trying to tell me that only LCH were targetting 1up/ND? I guess you lot must have been fighting over the scraps of Coven then?

I never mentioned a block, I never mentioned collaberation of any sort, I simply said that these alliances were targetting 1up/ND. If you believe I said anything other than that the I might suggest a course in the basic principles of reading.

And if you think that 1up/ND were not targetted by anyone other than LCH until the final week of the round then I shall stop responding to your posts as you evidently don't have a ****ing clue.

Good day, sir.

What do you Expect? You hit us, we hit you back. Simple. ( i am Talking About Angels Ofc)
We never avoided ND and 1up, as we saw them our main hostiles, we did came after their roids, because they were 1) juicy, 2) attacking us at night while i wanted to sleep 3) Because i did want to see someone else end #1 than 1up (not because i hate them or something but because i wanted to see more interesting fights in the universe) On other hand we did a lot of attack on smaller alliances like WP who were taking the fence again or SiN/ToF for pure roids gaining.
The fact that 1up did well while they were targeted by the rest of the universe is impressive but not impossible, you have to understand that the low number of players 1up had were very dedicated and constitent, i can say they were the only alliance their players were constitent enough to get thru on us (on occasional times).
Instead of whining and trying to analyse the block and who napped who, i strongly recommend you guys to save the time you spending on theses forums to try and analyze your own alliances, everyone ending below rank #1 have a lot to analyze and see why he didnt make it to #1.
Analyze, kick members if needed, change strategies, grow balls, do whatever is needed to win next round in a honorable way and not by forming a Super block of 10 alliances against a small and dedicated alliance, Its unfair and its what i call bashing.
We all know they arent that naive and i know that they were putting a lot of people in their pockets and using puppets in the universe, but this game is all about this, if you dont have the military number to take #1, take it politically.

Well done 1up, well done ND for ending 1 spot under the #1

And instead of being focused on other alliances try to focus on your own.

[Cannon_Fodder]

Originally Posted by Anihilat0r

I think my defence coverage was something like 8% over the whole round.

Explain to the noobs here what defense coverage is...

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by alch

What do you Expect? You hit us, we hit you back. Simple. ( i am Talking About Angels Ofc)
We never avoided ND and 1up, as we saw them our main hostiles, we did came after their roids, because they were 1) juicy, 2) attacking us at night while i wanted to sleep 3) Because i did want to see someone else end #1 than 1up (not because i hate them or something but because i wanted to see more interesting fights in the universe) On other hand we did a lot of attack on smaller alliances like WP who were taking the fence again or SiN/ToF for pure roids gaining.
.

I wasn't having a dig at Angels, nor was I suprised that we were attacked by Angels.

I was just putting forth the point that, rightly as we were big/fat/juicy, 1up had consistent incomings and not quite the easy ride Henck was suggesting.

I think you might have misunderstood the point I was trying to make.

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

Such a hypocritical view, you think LCH didn't have any naps during the round? Or that HR didn't? MISTU maybe didn't?

EVERYONE had naps at some stage during the round.

Whether or not alliances had naps or not is not the question. ND blocked and blocked first. The thing is ND blocked before anything (alliance wise) was clear. Ill say it again, no troll intended, Pansies.

We did both during Round 12, and although we didn't win, we can go out with our heads held high, and you can keep giving us a bad name in the hope more people join your block for Round 13.

No one else blocked, so saying "join our block for round 13 is just silly"

[The_Fish]

Now that IS blatant trolling. ND did not block first. We had no agreements with 1up til we co-operated with each other to hit MISTU, even then it was no nap, that didn't come til near the end.

VsN/LCH on the other hand... well, I think everyone knows they were napped pre round.

[alch]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

I think you might have misunderstood the point I was trying to make.

I dont think so
if you read my post again, you will find out that i am defending you guys as you were having an honorable victory.
And ofc we were targeting you and we were targeted by you, the main goal of this stupid game would be to get as much as roids you can get, correct me if i am wrong.
You all played by the rules.
I am honest in saying you guys had a lot of incoming the last 2 weeks mostly from all the universe apart ND and WP and few small alliances (SiN and ToF) and maybe planets from your ennemies (but lets blame the alliances in question who allowed planetary nap).
You guys were consitent in a game where playing till the end is the key of success and roiding without giving up is what will put your alliance in the top. many failed to understand this.
its why you got the ride to #1 again.

well done, and to the one thinking about saying im talking bullshit, i suggest you to get your facts straight, and ask your own HCs, who they were targeting the last 2 weeks.
Do not post before doing homework please.

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

Now that IS blatant trolling. ND did not block first. We had no agreements with 1up til we co-operated with each other to hit MISTU, even then it was no nap, that didn't come til near the end.

Anyone else see the humor in this statement?

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by alch

stuff.

My apologies.

From the first two lines of your initial post I thought I had offended you in some way and that you felt it neccessary to defend the decisions you made, which is quite the opposite from what I intended to say.

[Barrow|Pony]

Originally Posted by Fyodor

Ill say it again, no troll intended, Pansies.

Originally Posted by Fyodor

Anyone else see the humor in this statement?

No, seriously. Don't leave yourself flapping in the wind.

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

No, seriously. Don't leave yourself flapping in the wind.

Flapping in the wind?

[Anihilat0r]

Originally Posted by sniborp

Explain to the noobs here what defense coverage is...

It refers to how often I was 'covered' by my alliance.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Fyodor

Anyone else see the humor in this statement?

Unlike you, I had access to ND's arby throughout the round.

Our arby obviously has a 'NAP' section when viewing any particular galaxy, NAPd planets are listed under that. At no point did I see any 1up planets in the NAP section until roughly around the assault began on LCH. Nor did I see any 1up planet labelled under general intel as 'NAPd' or anything of the sort.

Please know stuff before you troll, kthnx.

Maybe I should throw in the strong rumour about LCH and VisioN NAP from the beginning of the round, which was a far stronger pairing than any official political links ND had.

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Gate

Unlike you, I had access to ND's arby throughout the round.

Our arby obviously has a 'NAP' section when viewing any particular galaxy, NAPd planets are listed under that. At no point did I see any 1up planets in the NAP section until roughly around the assault began on LCH. Nor did I see any 1up planet labelled under general intel as 'NAPd' or anything of the sort.

Please know stuff before you troll, kthnx.

Maybe I should throw in the strong rumour about LCH and VisioN NAP from the beginning of the round, which was a far stronger pairing than any official political links ND had.

Attack on My galaxy, hmm 3 weeks to a month into the round. First wave: ND, Second wave: 1up. Next night, same thing. Coincidense? Come on. Stop tryiing to deflect accusations of ND's block with semantics and misdirection. At the beginning of the round, 1up said "we will play king makers" Who was the alliance that they had in mind when saying this? I think last round shows it was ND

Our arby obviously has a 'NAP' section when viewing any particular galaxy, NAPd planets are listed under that.

So ND attacked 1up targets before they showed up as Napped?


What it comes down to is ND launched coordinated attacks with 1up before (as far as i saw) any other alliances did. Numerous Coordinated attacks=Block, IMO

[The_Fish]

There were hostilities between ND and 1up, yes.

2 from my own planet: Me, Kid Z and Barrow defending (MISTU) sn0w against Sid and Mazz
Me and Sprit attacking Chika and him getting covered by in gal defence... Sprit decided to land anyways and got pasted

[Squidly]

I'm pretty sure that I roided most of the people {a 1up guy included} who were helping evil_n00b out.

Coordinated attacks = full out blocking eh? O_o Crikey. So that means vision/wp/lch/hr/sin were blocked against my galaxy a couple nights? Clearly I need to brush up on correct terminology.

My bad

[Seth Mace]

As hinted at already, i personally think one of the reasons ND got so much attention (when it clearly should have been against 1up), was because the whole uni and its dog assumed they had continued off the back of their R11 1up Nap (if not nap, then ND avoided 1up so it may as well been) - and wanted to be made Kings by said alliance.

The idea of this is hard to swallow for many HCs im sure, so if ND are looking for reasons for all the massive incomings they got, well, maybe thats why! I doubt it helped with all the 1up/ ND propaganda pointing fingures at every1 else for blocking/ napping (like "OMG HR-LCH Nap"). I suppose in the end they persuaded themselves of this and a few other key HC (note the block listed below).

I'd also like to point out that by the time the counter-block against 1up/ ND/ Tof/ Sin/ WP, had been formed, the strength in that block clearly lacked any real punch, hence the final rankings.

I can remember quite clearly 1ups campaign against LCh (and HR), slagging off the uni for letting LCH get so far ahead and even if there was truth in this, the 1up-LCH conflict at the time seemed pretty damn even from my pov and because their growth had been stagnated.

[NitinA]

I'd also like to point out that by the time the counter-block against 1up/ ND/ Tof/ Sin/ WP, had been formed, the strength in that block clearly lacked any real punch, hence the final rankings.

You're mistaken because there was never a "1up/ ND/ Tof/ Sin/ WP" block. WP didn't have any formal relations with ToF during round 12 at all. WP and ND cooperated once or twice in the entire round only towards the last 200 ticks of gameplay.

-NitinA

[Chika]

Originally Posted by Fyodor

ND ruined the round by blocking with 1up. Plain and simple. They thought in doing so they could ride 1ups back to #1, didnt happen. I think most of the universe would have rather see 1up win then you pansies, who needed ride coat tails to try and get a win.

I cannot see how ND ruined the round. There was little or no stagnation, and up until like the last week we were still having wars etc. 1up won. That does not mean ND messed up the round. Would the round have been fixed if LCH won? Or maybe if ND won the round would have been ok? I can't see what you are saying here.
Also, I have yet to see any ND peeps say they were 1337. Is it a crime to try and win by any way availiable to you?

[lokken]

Kj and The Fish shall desist from trolling each other, or be banned.

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Chika

I cannot see how ND ruined the round. There was little or no stagnation, and up until like the last week we were still having wars etc. 1up won. That does not mean ND messed up the round. Would the round have been fixed if LCH won? Or maybe if ND won the round would have been ok? I can't see what you are saying here.
Also, I have yet to see any ND peeps say they were 1337. Is it a crime to try and win by any way availiable to you?

Yeah, you are right they didnt ruin the round. I was following up on gates post about ruining the round for another reason. My problem is that as soon as the started actively coordinating with 1up, It changed the dynamics of the round. They thought this was a good move to try and steal number one. Yet when the universe slammed them, then they run around asking why? And saying I thought the universe would rather see us win then 1up" I honestly have lost al respect for ND this round and wanted to say something about it ;-)

About the any means available, I wish there could be a way to code non alliance cooperation into the game. That way everyone could fight it out and leave the last man standing. The universe is way to small for any type of blocking/alliance naps.

[Alki]

Originally Posted by lokken

Kj and The Fish shall desist from trolling each other, or be banned.

omg thankyou was getting a bit old

Originally Posted by Fyodor

About the any means available, I wish there could be a way to code non alliance cooperation into the game. That way everyone could fight it out and leave the last man standing. The universe is way to small for any type of blocking/alliance naps.

tbh blocking can be fun if it is evenly sided, but i guess thats never been the case as 1 side tries to outblock the other. PA is becoming far more enjoyable anywho hence lots of returning allies, as long as blocks do not stick it from tick 1 till the last tick continously working together till they overcome everyone, i dont mind it cos the general 'blocks' we have seen in r12 were temporary to keep the game alive take down the number 1 alliance which 1up/ND did (good move by them), but they decided to stick together which is the only problem I have with it, yes they stood a better chance of winning if they did stick with 1up and i understand all posts from ND ppl, but i still think there cooperation should of been broken once the goal was met.

Bring on R13 in my opinion i cat wait to see what it brings us and i expect it to be quite fun, unless something quite retarded happens;D

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Alki

Bring on R13 in my opinion i cat wait to see what it brings us and i expect it to be quite fun, unless something quite retarded happens;D

Surely if you look at the past 2 rounds, it's the most likely scenario?

[jerome]

Yes, ND are clearly the evil of PA, along with 1up LCH and fellow peonblock kids are ofcourse angelic and almighty ! All hail idiocy.

[Envious]

You know what would be cool (and end those after round discussions, or rather spice them up probably)?
Some sort of statistics about which alliance is attacking which, over time, recorded during the round and released afterwards. It's already in the database actually, in the respective planet histories, although there's a problem with players switching alliances obviously.

[lokken]

some facts would rock, yeah

[aNgRyDuCk]

Originally Posted by Fyodor

ND ruined the round by blocking with 1up. Plain and simple. They thought in doing so they could ride 1ups back to #1, didnt happen. I think most of the universe would have rather see 1up win then you pansies, who needed ride coat tails to try and get a win.

that's the dumbest freaking thing I've read yet, simple.

ND's choices were these
1. screw over 1up, and break a NAP, and a good relationship, so LCH could overtake them AFTER LCH made a point to screw ND earlier.....err I don't think so
or
2. Stand next to 1up, having some integrity, not betraying a NAP that we agreed to, fighting the people that did their best to screw ND, and giving them some back

if our path isn't, or wasn't clear, then you obviously need a clue.

Originally Posted by Fyodor

Whether or not alliances had naps or not is not the question. ND blocked and blocked first. The thing is ND blocked before anything (alliance wise) was clear.

Ok, gonna clear something up here. ND/1up NAP'd, nothing else, we didn't pick targets together, we didn't have summer BBQ's at the park, we didn't take long walks together under the moonlight. We simply stayed on our own side of the yard. A couple isolated occasions where members from both alliances hit like targets, but not organized in any fashion.....ND members and 1up members defended each other IN THEIR GALAXIES, like anyone else, that's certainly not Blocking, nor is two alliances deciding to NAP. As Fish said, we decided to hit MISTU when they jumped out early in the round, we did not do any joint attacks, we simply both hit the same alliance, again, certainly not a block.

Clearly, this round (round 12) was very enjoyable, both military wise and politically, there was no stagnation, it went down to the end. As a member of ND's command cadre, I notice 3 things that really stand out to me from ND's standpoint (or more correctly, my standpoint)

1. ND showed integrity, standing by their political agreements, we're not backstabbers, and we showed that we are loyal politically to those we have agreements with

2. ND showed an ability to adjust, or adapt to it's surroundings, at the points during the round where our "path" was in need of re-defining, we simply looked at what we were faced with and said, "whats the best path to success for our members with the current state of affairs, and we adjusted our goals, missions accordingly.

and
3. ND stood up to a lot of incoming, from a lot of different places, we kept our heads up, and fought to the end (I'm sure a lot of alliances would be capable of saying that). We had inactivity at times, and were inconsistant at times....those are things we will address internally should we feel the need to do so.

it's our job, as ND's command cadre to facilitate our members in enjoying PA, and our community, and I certainly believe we made every possible decision to insure that happened. You cannot make everyone happy ofcoarse, and at some point, people part ways, and we wish them luck, but overall, ever member of ND can be proud of what they accomplished in r12, and we look forward to future rounds

[Zo0f]

This thread is old and boring so sorry to keep it going, just wanted to clear one thing up.

Claiming you only worked within the bounds of a NAP is pointless and false:

1) ND started the round with relations with NoS, this included military co-operation during the round from an early point.

2) ND and 1up co-operated militarily, as in which alliances they targeted. At the very least.

In the end it was all temporary, so it doesnt matter. Lieing about it is just plain sad though.

[Guran]

People changing alliances shouldn't be a problem as changes are recorded in the database aswell. What I'm uncertain of is if this data is saved for the entire round.

Originally Posted by Envious

You know what would be cool (and end those after round discussions, or rather spice them up probably)?
Some sort of statistics about which alliance is attacking which, over time, recorded during the round and released afterwards. It's already in the database actually, in the respective planet histories, although there's a problem with players switching alliances obviously.

[aNgRyDuCk]

Originally Posted by Zo0f

This thread is old and boring so sorry to keep it going, just wanted to clear one thing up.

Claiming you only worked within the bounds of a NAP is pointless and false:

1) ND started the round with relations with NoS, this included military co-operation during the round from an early point.

2) ND and 1up co-operated militarily, as in which alliances they targeted. At the very least.

In the end it was all temporary, so it doesnt matter. Lieing about it is just plain sad though.

no one is lying about anything, NoS and ND are friendly, have been for quite some time, there was only one instance where we coordinated anything alliance attack wise...just one.. and it was EXTREMELY early in the round, certainly before anything was decided, still doesn't constitute a block, and it certainly doesn't illustrate military cooperation, if thats the definition, than HR is guilty of the same thing, as they attacked ND same time LCH, VsN and a few others did.... you can't have it both ways
as for ND/1up again, we hit like targets, as we had generally the same enemies, no coordination to speak of

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

that's the dumbest freaking thing I've read yet, simple.

Then you havent read my other posts

ND's choices were these
0. Not block in the first place you pansie <<<<<<that is the best choice of the bunch.
1. screw over 1up, and break a NAP, and a good relationship, so LCH could overtake them AFTER LCH made a point to screw ND earlier.....err I don't think so
or
2. Stand next to 1up, having some integrity, not betraying a NAP that we agreed to, fighting the people that did their best to screw ND, and giving them some back

if our path isn't, or wasn't clear, then you obviously need a clue.

Ill not comment on the rest of your post as I think it is filled with lies. If it makes you feel better to believe what you wrote then more power to you. I personally dont believe you.

[Zo0f]

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

no one is lying about anything, NoS and ND are friendly, have been for quite some time, there was only one instance where we coordinated anything alliance attack wise...just one.. and it was EXTREMELY early in the round, certainly before anything was decided, still doesn't constitute a block, and it certainly doesn't illustrate military cooperation, if thats the definition, than HR is guilty of the same thing, as they attacked ND same time LCH, VsN and a few others did.... you can't have it both ways
as for ND/1up again, we hit like targets, as we had generally the same enemies, no coordination to speak of

Do I really have to spell it out for you?

ND and NoS had complete military co-operation while attacking HR early on. That is more than a NAP. HR never claimed otherwise. You on the other hand lied about it.

If you seriously do not think ND and 1up had military target co-operation you need to speak to the other HC, no idea why they would keep that from you though. Then again you knew, your just lieing again.

Making totally and obviously false statements in public is bad practice. If your going to lie do it well, otherwise dont bother.

[Gerbie]

Not blocking would have been a good choice indd.

There are different ways to 'screw over' an alliance. You can also talk and end the NAP (notice them a decent time in advance) instead of backstab them without notice. Not ending the NAP before the end of the round may have strong repercussions for next round.

[Squidly]

Despite the fact that zo0f is quite blatantly ignoring the accusations against HR, I have to say that I never once that whole round ever sit in an attack channel or have an attack coordination conversation with anyone significantly not-ND. I do remember one guy who I think was wp and a mate of duck or something, but I think he was the only one =/

But, zo0f is right despite all that. I can name at least 5 channels where you could find a few 1up, some ND, and maybe a few NoS all wanting to bash (verbally) hr/lch/vsn/etc:

#newdawn, #nos, #lch, #vsn, #wp


You should either get your eyesight, or your imagination checked out zo0f ... =/

[NitinA]

It's #pack, and actually there really isn't much bashing of anyone verbally there, just general chitchat.

-NitinA

[Seth Mace]

Originally Posted by Squidly

Despite the fact that zo0f is quite blatantly ignoring the accusations against HR

When you back somebody into a corner, a useful tactic is to try and move the blame onto another party (in this scenario, onto HR). Zo0f most likely ignored that HR comment because if you didnt already know squidly, HR was being wrongly accused of napping LCh et al. from the beginning of the round.

If you are one of those people who still believe in such 1up/ ND propaganda bait, drop me a pm on irc and ill set the record straight for you

Although as has already been said, this discussion is "so last round" ;P

[The_Fish]

NewDawn and NoS had a nap. NoS hardly formed a powerblock with us, they peaked at rank 8 or something? Hardly scary stuff.

NewDawn members and Command care about our alliance more than any other alliance. We have been here every round, and will be here for every round. We will not let downright stupid lies and propoganda go on here unchallenged.

Not blocking? We were trying to win (which only 2 other alliances tried to do) and tried to give ourselves the best position to win. We did what ANY alliance (with a command with half a brain) would have done. We fought above what was expected of us, no-one can take any of that away from us.

Instead on concentrating on our end of round nap with 1up, why not moan at LCH for allowing fencesitters? HR for not being able to organise any opposition despite the overwhelming numerical advantage? VisioN for not putting up a better fight? MISTU for collapsing?

We are being flamed for merely succeeding where many other alliances failed. And you will all feel much more important and much better players when you heavily block to beat us down well done.

Congratulations, I salute you.

[Squidly]

Originally Posted by NitinA

It's #pack, and actually there really isn't much bashing of anyone verbally there, just general chitchat.

-NitinA

Err... sorry... my brain must have been elsewhere... usually is tbh yus, it is #pack, and maybe I should clarify the word bashing. "Varying degrees of saying odd and silly things about lch/vsn/etc" Meh bad =/


Let's see sethy! I could believe the HR/etc propaganda of ND being the heathens of PA for blocking (with Rank 8), or, I could believe anyone else with at least half an idea on what's going on. Not a hard choice... why is it so difficult for you?

Oh and btw, I'm sure we could argue till my fingers go blue about HR and LCH etc etc, but, I somehow don't think it's going to turn either way. I accuse, you deny, etc. Kinda pointless....

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Fyodor

Then you havent read my other posts




Ill not comment on the rest of your post as I think it is filled with lies. If it makes you feel better to believe what you wrote then more power to you. I personally dont believe you.

I idd agree and tried to tell others so many times, not blocking would have been the best option imo and I'm glad I'm not the only one looking at it that way. Infact most non 1up/ND posters so far think ND didn't take the right decision.

And Angryduck, this isn't meant as an offense because you did what YOU thought was best for your members and you only know AFTERWARDS that the decision was a good or bad one. I'd have gone with the no blocking as I (personally) think that'd have been better for my alliance.

I have my reasons why I think that is, I posted the earlier (or little bits of it) but nobody know with a certainty that it would OR wouldn't be a better outcome.
So don't call other pple idiots because they believe what ND command did wasn't the smartest choice (looking at it afterwards).

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

NewDawn and NoS had a nap. NoS hardly formed a powerblock with us, they peaked at rank 8 or something? Hardly scary stuff.

NewDawn members and Command care about our alliance more than any other alliance. We have been here every round, and will be here for every round. We will not let downright stupid lies and propoganda go on here unchallenged.

Not blocking? We were trying to win (which only 2 other alliances tried to do) and tried to give ourselves the best position to win. We did what ANY alliance (with a command with half a brain) would have done. We fought above what was expected of us, no-one can take any of that away from us.

Instead on concentrating on our end of round nap with 1up, why not moan at LCH for allowing fencesitters? HR for not being able to organise any opposition despite the overwhelming numerical advantage? VisioN for not putting up a better fight? MISTU for collapsing?

We are being flamed for merely succeeding where many other alliances failed. And you will all feel much more important and much better players when you heavily block to beat us down well done.

Congratulations, I salute you.

As Lokken warned us, I will not flame but I really STRONGLY disagree with what you wrote here.

Alot of other HC's would have done something different, HC's who are equally capable or even better then the ND command. So your remark was rather insulting and not even valid either.

You're already putting ND in a "victime" role for next round? ND is NOT that important for others to gang on. At what did you succeed exactly? At playing a fun round? At ending 3rd? At surviving when being ganged on?
Newsflash m8, many have done so before you and with nearly 100 members, it's an ACHIEVEMENT to NOT finish top5 rather then to finish top 5.
You played a decent round yes, but not a round in which you proved ND can succeed in something that alot of other alliances failed to do so.

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

NewDawn and NoS had a nap. NoS hardly formed a powerblock with us, they peaked at rank 8 or something? Hardly scary stuff.

Nos gave you added ships to fill your attacks out with. Which in a sence gave you 100+ man alliance on the attack side.

[Waku]

I think you should all shut the hell up or am I the only one that had enough of this bullshit...

[aNgRyDuCk]

First of all, KJ, we finished 3rd, so apparently our decisions were on the right track, no alliance in their right mind would take on LCH and 1up, and expect to win, thus, not a viable choice.....also KJ, your comment about alot of other HC's being "better" than ND command....... apparently only 2 groups of HC were "better" or did I read the final rankings wrong? at least as far as round 12 was concerned........ Truth is, we did a capable job with what we had to work with, and funny thing is, it really pisses everyone off



we chose the best possible path for our alliance, no need to instigate additional incomings from 1up when we already had incoming from LCH, HR, VsN, and a few others on a nightly basis, for anyone to sit here and try to sell that anything other than what we did would have been a good decision, is totally illogical, and completely irrelevant....we did what we did, we finished third, and everyone can sit here till the cows come home bitching and whining about it, end of the day, only 2 alliances finished higher, all in all, good round, nothing to be ashamed of

no point in arguing with someone that already knows everything, so .........

as for you Zo0f.....NoS participated in 1 attack with ND, 1, no more, just the one early in the round against HR.......we had 1 joint attack all round... the horse is dead, please quit beating it


as for the rest of you, we're looking forward to round 13, enjoy the thread

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by Zo0f

Do I really have to spell it out for you?

ND and NoS had complete military co-operation while attacking HR early on. That is more than a NAP. HR never claimed otherwise. You on the other hand lied about it.

If you seriously do not think ND and 1up had military target co-operation you need to speak to the other HC, no idea why they would keep that from you though. Then again you knew, your just lieing again.

Making totally and obviously false statements in public is bad practice. If your going to lie do it well, otherwise dont bother.

In some occasions we cooperated millitary with 1up yes, but that was mostly when there was a fleetcatch going on etc...
Else, we decided our target alone, and attacked them alone, and i think i would be right when i say ND outroided anyone for a while, when we were heavily targetted.
In the start, we knew who NoS were hitting, and NoS knew who we were hitting, but that doesnt mean that we cooperated in the way you suggest, i think we launched maybe once on the same target with different waves.. That number could allthough be more, but it isnt much more.

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

I idd agree and tried to tell others so many times, not blocking would have been the best option imo and I'm glad I'm not the only one looking at it that way. Infact most non 1up/ND posters so far think ND didn't take the right decision.

And Angryduck, this isn't meant as an offense because you did what YOU thought was best for your members and you only know AFTERWARDS that the decision was a good or bad one. I'd have gone with the no blocking as I (personally) think that'd have been better for my alliance.

I have my reasons why I think that is, I posted the earlier (or little bits of it) but nobody know with a certainty that it would OR wouldn't be a better outcome.
So don't call other pple idiots because they believe what ND command did wasn't the smartest choice (looking at it afterwards).

Basicly what you are saying, is that you its ok to LCH to block, as then they could beat 1up..
Great deal..
And i think ND did the right choice, we stood up against the masses of incomings, we fought hard, we never bended over to hit 1up...
ND has never left an ally to stand alone, and will not start now..

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by SteInMetz

Basicly what you are saying, is that you its ok to LCH to block, as then they could beat 1up..
Great deal..
And i think ND did the right choice, we stood up against the masses of incomings, we fought hard, we never bended over to hit 1up...
ND has never left an ally to stand alone, and will not start now..

You all live on Mars where they teach you to see things that aren't there? I've not even MENTIONNED LCH, at NO POINT did I EVER suggest for ND to block with LCH OR did I say what LCH did (the blocking, the not attacking #1 alliance) was a good call.

I can't be arsed to explain myself when pple just add things to what I said, twist things and make their own little truth so it would benefit their reply ...

And Angryduck, I was talking about commands over ALL the rounds PA had. And compared to that ALOT of other HC's have achieved what you did and better. My ONLY point was to tell fishboy that it's INSULTING to think any half brain command would have done the same.

Or are you saying you agree with The_Fish on that, that other pple are lesser pple then you because they'd have done something else? That's be rather idiotic if you'd support such a statement, I know I wouldn't.

It's NOT because you end 3rd that you have the 3rd best command (in that case you have to admit that LCH has a superior command then ND and that their decisions often are better then ND's). Good command is a command that can perform good with the assets that he has (e.g. members, amount of members, etc ...).

And again, no offence, but there were like what, 6-7 alliances in the entire round that had close to 100 members, of which all ended top10 (if I'm not mistaken).

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

You're already putting ND in a "victime" role for next round? ND is NOT that important for others to gang on. At what did you succeed exactly? At playing a fun round? At ending 3rd? At surviving when being ganged on?

Didn't you just contradict yourself there?

ND don't really believe we're important enough to be ganged on. This round was a huge ego boost as ND policy at critical points actually decided who would win the round, but it also proved that the HCs of other alliances are easily driven by base emotions (the whole 'NewDawn are evuhl and must be PUNISHED' type thing) rather than trying to find a logical way to do better in the round. If LCH had instead played for their own position, they may well have made things worse for us as it would have been more likely LCH would have won, with 1up/ND in second and third. However, pointing this out is obviously evil ND's sneaky way to get less incs next round so they will make us pay, even if , say, 1up is steaming past them at the time, whilst complaining about us 'whining'.

As for 'ND/ToF/SiN/WP/1up' block, I noted several from ToF in our arby throughout the round as NAPd, and remember helping them once, towards the end of the round (attacking lokie with black widows against someone using the maur/pir/gal trick. Apparently subbing un-EMPs ships though, :/ ), and as for WP, the one time I remember co-ordinating with them was, as Nitin said, close to the end of the round, when cocteu's 13k clippers were fleetcaught and taken out. Before that they were most definitely hostile because I remember getting quite a few retal incs from them because livewire had landed and lost something like 10k FR for 1.5k roids or something silly (XP left him 20k down overall though, so he came off better), plus the general type of incs when they were hitting our gals.

As for SiN... aside from general defbot cyb0r, we had no agreement whatsoever that I'm aware of.

1up... well, we all seem to have an idea of what we want to think actually happened...

[aNgRyDuCk]

naaa, I'm saying this, in r12 LCH and 1up did better than ND, and the rest of em didn't.... I've been around since round 1, seen a lot of good command structures, been involved in a few as well, and this one, is pretty good. We have great communication between each other, and our membership, and we've got people who aren't afraid to pull the trigger, not slamming anyone else

This Command took a group of hellraisers to #3, it didn't have the neverending activity of a 1up to do so, that's sayin something, and we're proud of that. A lot of good commanders, or at least people with good command tools, some not so good. Certainly not trying to get into a pissing match over it, just making a point

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Gate

Didn't you just contradict yourself there?

ND don't really believe we're important enough to be ganged on. This round was a huge ego boost as ND policy at critical points actually decided who would win the round, but it also proved that the HCs of other alliances are easily driven by base emotions (the whole 'NewDawn are evuhl and must be PUNISHED' type thing) rather than trying to find a logical way to do better in the round. If LCH had instead played for their own position, they may well have made things worse for us as it would have been more likely LCH would have won, with 1up/ND in second and third. However, pointing this out is obviously evil ND's sneaky way to get less incs next round so they will make us pay, even if , say, 1up is steaming past them at the time, whilst complaining about us 'whining'.

As for 'ND/ToF/SiN/WP/1up' block, I noted several from ToF in our arby throughout the round as NAPd, and remember helping them once, towards the end of the round (attacking lokie with black widows against someone using the maur/pir/gal trick. Apparently subbing un-EMPs ships though, :/ ), and as for WP, the one time I remember co-ordinating with them was, as Nitin said, close to the end of the round, when cocteu's 13k clippers were fleetcaught and taken out. Before that they were most definitely hostile because I remember getting quite a few retal incs from them because livewire had landed and lost something like 10k FR for 1.5k roids or something silly (XP left him 20k down overall though, so he came off better), plus the general type of incs when they were hitting our gals.

As for SiN... aside from general defbot cyb0r, we had no agreement whatsoever that I'm aware of.

1up... well, we all seem to have an idea of what we want to think actually happened...

PLZ READ WHAT I SAID DAMNIT !!! "FOR NEXT ROUND" yes mmmk?

I ONLY spoke about putting yerself in the victime role for next round as that is EXACTLY what the_fish did by assuming we'd all block to take out ND ...