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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 16:26   #1
Korsan
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The Big blackout and the consequences

First of all:
Sorry for messing your game for 1 day. It wasn't our intention to break the game nor are we responsible for it.

So what happened?

About 3 days ago 10:6's gal fund became bugged. We have no clue but suddenly we had a negative amount of metal shown in galaxy fund. The amount was something like -1.700.000.000.
At first we thought it was a simple display error. I also mentioned this in alliance channel and in #planetarion but as this is my very first encounter with a bug I haven't done anything else because I thought it's a minor bug.

2 days ago ( 06/21 ) we found out that you can exchange crystal and eonium into metal without having any metal in galaxy fund. This was found by me because as a terran player I was in need of metal all the time so I tried this with the negative metal amount in fund - and it worked. We basically were like national states, which can make depts as they wish. As PA teams internal records will confirm, I only changed metal 1 time when galaxy fund was broken.

I reported this immediately to Appocomaster via PM on netgamers. Check this LOG.

Quote:
Session Start: Tue Jun 22 03:05:20 2010
Session Ident: Appocomaster
01[03:05] <Korsan> hey
01[03:05] <Korsan> you there?
01[03:05] <Korsan> anyway you should check 10:6's gal fund
01[03:05] <Korsan> its my gal and we have an error there
01[03:06] <Korsan> Resource Type Current Resources Minimum Resource level Wanted in trades? Amount to donate
01[03:06] <Korsan> MetalMetal -1,709,076,480 0 Wanted
01[03:06] <Korsan> we have -1,8 billion metal
01[03:06] <Korsan> and we can exchange ressources without putting metal in
Session Close: Tue Jun 22 03:14:41 2010
Some hours later the Brazilian half of my galaxy popped into IRC. I told them about the bug and they had the assumption that this would also work with donations. We were fully aware that not reporting it at this point would be abusing so we decided to test it with a small amount and report the bug before doing any further steps - just to back us up.

Again I pmd Appocomaster. Joseph, my dear galmate also pmed him. Check here and here.
Quote:
Session Start: Tue Jun 22 03:45:01 2010
Session Ident: Appocomaster
01[03:45] <Korsan> umm
01[03:45] <Korsan> so back
01[03:45] <Korsan> we tested some stuff
01[03:45] <Korsan> and we can donate indefinate amounts of metal to gal members
01[03:45] <Korsan> i am sure there are others that exploit this one too
Session Close: Tue Jun 22 04:08:55 2010
After that we donated bigger amounts to check the dimensions of the bug. There was no limit. Only the hard coded 50 million limit was there so we donated as many 50ms we could. Note we reported this before we did. We knew a bug like this would lead into tick stop, no matter what we do. We have seen PA ticks stopped for far less.

At this point half the gal was asleep. Pdmaster, our GC was also asleep. We already had 1 emo inactive which left 3 of us in gal chan - Xoca, Joseph and me. Those planets we donated didnt knew we did this.

About 4-5 ticks later our gal get the first incs, but ticks were still running. The people we donated got online, and because we knew ticks were going to stop we didn't send out a pa mail not to use the ressources. They did what 99% of all planetarion players would do - they spent the ressources.

When my first incomming fleets was eta 3 an admin finally read our mails and stopped ticks. Until there we organised defense without putting the production stuff into calculation. We organised defense like always and even emoed about the lack of defense in alliance channels. We cross defended and used all our fleets. The production never was meant to defend us as we gambled on a tick stop much earlier and a cancel of production.
Our galmates who put those ressources into production weren't able to cancel the production because the ticks were stopped.

So now we are at the point where those planets are being closed by the head multihunter Ace which does an Ace job being not objective. When I read Spinner's thread about his experiences in PA I laughed and shake my head. Now the same thing happens to us. We were accused of abusing the bug. We were marked as cheater. Note that only those were accused that received the ressources, not those who donated them. It's like accusing somebody who bought a stolen cell phone over ebay not knowing it was stolen but letting the seller run away.
As this happens the first time to me I am not sure about the procedure but I thought that incomming fleets to closed planets are recalled - they weren't. Even if we manage to keep those planet unclosed they were messed because the incs went on when they still was closed. pdmaster lost half his fleet to a zik when he was still banned. At this point our gal was dead. Our motivation and hopes are broken.

Let me state my point of view on this:
- we never intended to cheat
- we never caused this bug on purpose
- we never told our galmates that we donate metal to them
- we never refused reporting this, we reported this as soon as we saw it
- if we wanted to abuse and cheat we would have let those incomming hostiles pass and rebuild our stuff with this bug being unnoticed

Now what happened really? We got closed for not abusing and cheating. We got closed for reporting a bug. We got closed for our decision not to hide this bug bug to help improving the game. We got closed for PA Teams ignorance to bug reports.
As i heard in #planetarion this bug was known for 2 rounds. I wonder myself how many people abused this bug and never reported it. Be honest to yourselves, would you report this or use little neat donations every day? I think 90% would say they'd abuse - WE DIDN'T.

I understand that people accuse us to cheat. I understand that not warning our planets not to use ressources was a mistake. But I fully can't understand the arguments brought to us by Ace, saying we get closed because we didn't use the in game report button which I never heard of. If we wanted to cheat we wouldn't have acted like this. We would have used small amounts which stay unnoticed by anyone to rebuild our stuff and get even bigger. We are not that dumb to sacrifice our hidden cheating skills on just 1 night of incommings. If we had malicious intentions we never would have acted like this. You know how a cheater acts and you know that a cheater would never report his cheats BEFORE doing them.

I fully apologize from PA community for the long downtime. Again - we never intented to do so!

This being said I have to announce my parting from planetarion unless our gal gets payed off for the losses caused by this wrong closing of planets. Ace's decisions destroyed our gal.

Let me state this again: I am not closed. I could go on with my game and still finish t50. I just lost my roids today which can be easily regained. Nevertheless I will depart if PA team doesn't fix this. There is no way I will go on playing after messing my great galaxy. So I really hope PA team repays the ship losses so we can go on. This only applies ofc if all planets stay open. A single one getting closed will lead to losing 7 paying customers which you don't care about I'm sure as this game is already dying.
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Last edited by Korsan; 23 Jun 2010 at 16:49.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 16:41   #2
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

The main problem I have with it is this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan
After that we donated bigger amounts to check the dimensions of the bug. There was no limit. Only the hard coded 50 million limit was there so we donated as many 50ms we could. Note we reported this before we did. We knew a bug like this would lead into tick stop, no matter what we do. We have seen PA ticks stopped for far less.
It is NOT your responsibility to test how far a bug can go. Once you've encountered (and reported) it, you should leave it alone. Had you done this, PA Team could have checked all galaxy fund logs without stopping the ticks and delaying everything for 24 hours.

Also, I think you're wrong when you say 90% would have abused it. I'm sure quite a few might have tried to get away with it at first, but with 7+ others able to see the galaxy fund (and therefore notice something is off) someone would've reported it, either from the galaxy itself or someone who heard about it via that galaxy (people can't keep such things secret for very long).

edit1: Removed some irrelevant stuff
edit2: Removed too much first time apparently!

Last edited by Patrikc; 23 Jun 2010 at 19:13.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 16:59   #3
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
The main problem I have with it is this:


It is NOT your responsibility to test how far a bug can go. Once you've encountered (and reported) it, you should leave it alone. Had you done this, PA Team could have checked all galaxy fund logs without stopping the ticks and delaying everything for 24 hours.

Also, I think you're wrong when you say 90% would have abused it. I'm sure quite a few might have tried to get away with it at first, but with 7+ others able to see the galaxy fund (and therefore notice something is off) someone would've reported it, either from the galaxy itself or someone who heard about it via that galaxy (people can't keep such things
You are talking just to bash me. Your reply shows this clearly. I told you in channel "learn to read". We didnt get closed for donating. We got closed for putting them into production. So all your moaning about our bug test is not valid.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 17:07   #4
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
You are talking just to bash me. Your reply shows this clearly. I told you in channel "learn to read". We didnt get closed for donating. We got closed for putting them into production. So all your moaning about our bug test is not valid.
I would have said the same to anyone. I have no intention to bash you personally as I have (or at least, had) nothing against you, nor do I have anything to benefit from it (my e-penis is big enough already).

You knew something was wrong, yet you still acted in a way that lead to the game being closed. Had you not donated a huge amount, there would have been no reason to close the game. Had you not used those resources after you (unnecessarily) tested the limits, there would have been no reason to close the game.

But you did.

Case closed.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 17:09   #5
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

it looks more of a case of the 'should-haves'
they should have mailed their galm8s and told them not to use the res. but they didn't.
it's also a case of assuming makes an ass out of u and me :P
because they assumed that ticks would be stopped before the res was used. and it wasnt.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 17:10   #6
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

To be fair, this bug still would have required the game to be closed to allow for the bug to be fixed.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 17:16   #7
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
To be fair, this bug still would have required the game to be closed to allow for the bug to be fixed.
Had they stopped when they first noticed the fund was at a negative amount, it could have probably been fixed mid-tick. (that's assuming no other people had abused the fund at that point, of which I'm unaware)
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 17:20   #8
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

i'm ok with the ticks being stopped.. but the failure to freeze fleets i'll agree was unfair. i don't think it was done on purpose but a simple rollback and correction could fix it couldn't it?
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 17:22   #9
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
After that we donated bigger amounts to check the dimensions of the bug. There was no limit. Only the hard coded 50 million limit was there so we donated as many 50ms we could. Note we reported this before we did. We knew a bug like this would lead into tick stop, no matter what we do. We have seen PA ticks stopped for far less.
So, you knew it was a bug, reported it, but then still abused it......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan
Let me state my point of view on this:
- we never intended to cheat
- we never caused this bug on purpose
- we never told our galmates that we donate metal to them
- we never refused reporting this, we reported this as soon as we saw it
- if we wanted to abuse and cheat we would have let those incomming hostiles pass and rebuild our stuff with this bug being unnoticed
Why did you not tell your gal mates by the way, any good reason for this? Surely those gal mates who "never knew" you had donated vast sums of resources to them would have asked where it came from...therefore when they spent them, they, again, knowingly abused this bug. Someone not abusing this bug would have just told Appoco and left the fund as it was.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 17:29   #10
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

If I logged on and noticed the resources I needed to cover my incs had mysteriously appeared I'd be pretty sceptical. Or are your galmates actually complete idiots?
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 17:35   #11
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

I'm just going to lift out a few key phrases and comment on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
We were fully aware that not reporting it at this point would be abusing so we decided to test it with a small amount and report the bug before doing any further steps - just to back us up.
This seems quite reasonable, you have to know there's a bug before you can report it. I don't understand why you chose to donate five times, though, instead of just once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
After that we donated bigger amounts to check the dimensions of the bug. There was no limit. Only the hard coded 50 million limit was there so we donated as many 50ms we could.
I agree with Patrikc & co. When you signed up to the game, you signed the EULA and, in the process, agreed not to take advantage of bugs. While I don't deduce ill intentions from donating 1 million once in order to test a bug, once the bug is found, there is no excuse for continuing to "test" it by donating ever larger amounts to ever more people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
Those planets we donated didnt knew we did this.
I am not buying the ignorance card. They knew (from a couple of days earlier, by your own admission) that you could manipulate the metal in the galaxy fund into the negatives. They could see that they had been donated 50m metal from the galaxy fund (their news showed this). At this point, any halfwit would realise that something wasn't quite right. Instead, these people came online, learned that a bug had occurred and took advantage of it, rather than just donating it back into the fund.

As for the MoD, he certainly knew he was abusing a bug and it would be quite just if he stayed closed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
They did what 99% of all planetarion players would do - they spent the ressources.
Appeal to popularity. Just because lots of people (would) do it doesn't make it right or legal or true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
When my first incomming fleets was eta 3 an admin finally read our mails and stopped ticks.
I am not sure where you sent these mails, but if you did this correctly, then their response time was truly abysmal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
So now we are at the point where those planets are being closed by the head multihunter Ace which does an Ace job being not objective.
From what I could tell from planet scans, you were treated incredibly leniently. You lost the resources you gained and (so far) suffered no other punishment. I would not have been so kind. That said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
pdmaster lost half his fleet to a zik when he was still banned.
...this is extremely shitty and should never have happened. But why didn't you appeal during the 24 hours downtime? Why didn't you ask an admin to step in and save your fleets? There were a lot of things you could have done. You again chose the worst possible solution, as seems to be a habit of your galaxy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
the in game report button which I never heard of.
The only reason I know of it is because Appocomaster referred me to it when I reported some bugs on IRC.
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 23 Jun 2010 at 17:44.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 17:45   #12
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

I assume that's the "support" tab in the in-game interface? Heck, even my ADHD ass found it when I was looking for where to report something last round. It's not as if it's behind a ton of menus and shit.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 18:32   #13
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
I assume that's the "support" tab in the in-game interface? Heck, even my ADHD ass found it when I was looking for where to report something last round. It's not as if it's behind a ton of menus and shit.
Tbh, I usually just PM Appoco as well when I face any weird stuff in PA. I found the button straight away when I just looked for it, but then again I knew it exists. I donīt think Iīd stumble over it by chance really.

Edit: Yes, I see the support tab, but somehow never really noticed it not tried to report bugs through it.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 18:39   #14
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
The main problem I have with it is this:


It is NOT your responsibility to test how far a bug can go. Once you've encountered (and reported) it, you should leave it alone. Had you done this, PA Team could have checked all galaxy fund logs without stopping the ticks and delaying everything for 24 hours.

Also, I think you're wrong when you say 90% would have abused it. I'm sure quite a few might have tried to get away with it at first, but with 7+ others able to see the galaxy fund (and therefore notice something is off) someone would've reported it, either from the galaxy itself or someone who heard about it via that galaxy (people can't keep such things
This is quite right. A few rounds ago, maybe as far back as r32, this exact same thing happened to Ascendancy's gal fund. We did screw around with it a bit as I recall but we also reported it and it got fixed without a downtime being required.

For the record I also find it really hard to understand why 10.6 donated tons of resources to 4 different planets and then spent it.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 19:12   #15
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

For the greater good.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 20:31   #16
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

You paid for this game??? lulz! I'd probably pay if the money went to appoco or someone who gave a shit!
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 21:16   #17
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

You all accuse us of abusing gal funds by donating. This shows you still don't understand the case. Donatin 50 million to planets was NOT I repeat NOT the reason why some of our planets have been closed. So please stop labeling us as cheater with this argument as it is not right. We got closed for putting those ressources into production.

So please focus your attention on this argument when you try to label us as cheaters, don't use the wrong one again

And tbh I don't care if you believe me that those planets were offline when they got donations. If you actually READ what I wrote you will see that we detected that bug 3 days ago but didnt know you can donate, we just thought it was a display error. Please think a little more before puttin your fingers on your keyboard. Also PA admins will confirm that there was no login from those planets at the time we donated stuff or hours before that. So please stop moaning about that too as it doesnt matter if you believe it or not - we have everything recorded and thus your personal opinion gets utterly crushed by real facts.
The fact that there was no need for a thread like this and that our planets didn'T get closed for the matter you cry about proofs that your flaming about us is nothing more than a personal flame with absolutely no content.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 21:28   #18
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

I'm sorry, but spending the resources has bugger all to do with anything.

50m resources is still, what... 333k value? Going up to 500k after spend?

You mean to tell me if you hadn't spent that res the MH would have been totally fine with a 333k score gain from a bug?
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 21:36   #19
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
You all accuse us of abusing gal funds by donating. This shows you still don't understand the case. Donatin 50 million to planets was NOT I repeat NOT the reason why some of our planets have been closed. So please stop labeling us as cheater with this argument as it is not right. We got closed for putting those ressources into production.
And why did you do that?
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 22:11   #20
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Thanks Korsan for the biggest load pish I have read on the forums in a long time. I totally agree with Pat, JBG and Mz... that you knew about the bug and still decided ... XXXX it. I still question your motives for "testing."
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 22:24   #21
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
I'm sorry, but spending the resources has bugger all to do with anything.

50m resources is still, what... 333k value? Going up to 500k after spend?

You mean to tell me if you hadn't spent that res the MH would have been totally fine with a 333k score gain from a bug?
exactly! We have 1 inactive planet in galaxy who didnt spend the ressources but also received 500m. He didn't get deleted and according to Ace he won't ever be deleted for that.
So donating is not a justification for closing a planet, no matter how hard you guys try to make it look like it.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 22:30   #22
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
And tbh I don't care if you believe me that those planets were offline when they got donations. If you actually READ what I wrote you will see that we detected that bug 3 days ago but didnt know you can donate, we just thought it was a display error. Please think a little more before puttin your fingers on your keyboard. Also PA admins will confirm that there was no login from those planets at the time we donated stuff or hours before that. So please stop moaning about that too as it doesnt matter if you believe it or not - we have everything recorded and thus your personal opinion gets utterly crushed by real facts.
Who said anything about whether or not your galaxy mates were online? We asked, when they DID come online, why did they go ahead and spend the resources and not question where they came from...and if they did, and they knew where they came from, well, then that is abusing a bug and therefore CHEATING!

Why not present us with some more "real facts" that prove how you didn't cheat....
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 22:50   #23
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
And why did you do that?
Quote:
If we wanted to cheat we wouldn't have acted like this. We would have used small amounts which stay unnoticed by anyone to rebuild our stuff and get even bigger. We are not that dumb to sacrifice our hidden cheating skills on just 1 night of incommings. If we had malicious intentions we never would have acted like this. You know how a cheater acts and you know that a cheater would never report his cheats BEFORE doing them.
Our motives were sheer curiosity. Don't talk like you'd not try it out yourselves. Everyone knows that a bug like this leads to a tick stop. We didnt know we have inactive admins that react on a bug like this like 8 ticks later.

Anyway I have said everything I wanted in my initial post. I don't want to quote myself all the time. I do understand that especially ASC is pretty angry about this because it was their attack that almost got canceled. But please do not leave out your frustration at me. You all know a cheater wouldn't act like this - yes, you know!
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 22:57   #24
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
exactly! We have 1 inactive planet in galaxy who didnt spend the ressources but also received 500m. He didn't get deleted and according to Ace he won't ever be deleted for that.
So donating is not a justification for closing a planet, no matter how hard you guys try to make it look like it.
50m*

You can't delete somebody for receiving donations if they have no idea of wtf is going on, but the resources will certainly be taken away again.

The fact that you spent the resources shows intent to abuse a bug, which is why you've been closed. If you HAVE resources, ofc they're "spendable". Receiving the resources there endeth the limits of your "testing", whilst staying true to your intentions.

Your very actions have infact proved how full of shit that you are, and I can't believe you have the audacity to try and argue your case. If you'd just shut the **** up and taken it on the wrists then that would be one thing, but now by claiming your nonsensical innocense you're just pissing everybody off.

Stop pissing everybody off.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 23:06   #25
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
Our motives were sheer curiosity.
How were you curious? You already knew it'd work, you'd tried it with smaller numbers and it had worked. Did you think that increasing the number would break it? How on earth could you have been curious after you'd successfully donated once? What did putting those resources into production resolve?

Quote:
Don't talk like you'd not try it out yourselves. Everyone knows that a bug like this leads to a tick stop. We didnt know we have inactive admins that react on a bug like this like 8 ticks later.
But it doesn't have to, as my earlier post pointed out.

Quote:
I do understand that especially ASC is pretty angry about this because it was their attack that almost got canceled. But please do not leave out your frustration at me. You all know a cheater wouldn't act like this - yes, you know!
Why on earth would we be angry about something that didn't happen? If anything it helped us as ingal def got recalled.


I do find it hard to believe you actually intended to cheat using this bug due to the sheer obviousness of it. My most reasonable assumption is that you were almost 100% sure nobody would get closed for it and thought there was a small chance that you'd either be able to keep the res or the spending would force recalls/get the raid on your gal canceled somehow. Realistically nothing else makes sense.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 23:20   #26
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

i think what korsan is trying to say is... y not? game was screwed anyways. everything after the bug being this was just playing around. it couldn't and wouldn't have lasting effects on anyone. Just more work for the mh to clean up. Which is kinda funny ;-P they need something useful to do anyways.
Pdmaster shouldn't have lost his fleet tho.

It was reported and no one should care tehy donated to gal members as about 3 ticks b4 that it was broken. it was a easy fix to return the planets back to normal size.

People just need to stop bitching. Game had to be closed anyways as the code was ****ed.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 23:22   #27
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

i think asc members are most confused at why you actually reported it... just didn't abuse it until someone else found out ;-D Then they can get the shit stick and you can flame them on the boards.
hmmm....
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 23:27   #28
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

No, the game did not have to be closed. As I have repeatedly pointed out now.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 23:31   #29
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

1. I don't understand why you had to make all the effort of posting that long 1st post to justify yours, and your galmates actions.

2. Why would those that recieved tons of metal by donations, actually bother to trade with universe tax (25%) to even out the resources?
(no intentions of cheating?)

3. Claiming that point 2. was in good knowledge and belief that the game would be stopped and rolled back because of this bug, was the reason you guys chose to "test it" this far. Sounds utterly stupid.

I could say a lot more, but seriously you lost all my respect when you chose to make this thread to justify your actions.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 23:45   #30
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
1. I don't understand why you had to make all the effort of posting that long 1st post to justify yours, and your galmates actions.

2. Why would those that recieved tons of metal by donations, actually bother to trade with universe tax (25%) to even out the resources?
(no intentions of cheating?)

3. Claiming that point 2. was in good knowledge and belief that the game would be stopped and rolled back because of this bug, was the reason you guys chose to "test it" this far. Sounds utterly stupid.

I could say a lot more, but seriously you lost all my respect when you chose to make this thread to justify your actions.
Maybe you noticed that in 2/3 of my post I didnt try to justify but give a chronological insight into the events that led to the downtime. As every PA player is affected by this I felt the need to make such a thread. Not everyone in PA plays at Osiris and knows about our gal channel discussions.

So why exactly are you complaining about this? Maybe you just noticed you never had the nuts to do the same when you know that all forum trolls will slap you? If you read again you will also realize that this was an apology from PA community for the caused downtime. So hard to understand? And please excuse me if I put a breeze of justification in it as it is my galaxy that got messed which we all spent weaks for.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 23:51   #31
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
Maybe you noticed that in 2/3 of my post I didnt try to justify but give a chronological insight into the events that led to the downtime. As every PA player is affected by this I felt the need to make such a thread. Not everyone in PA plays at Osiris and knows about our gal channel discussions.

So why exactly are you complaining about this? Maybe you just noticed you never had the nuts to do the same when you know that all forum trolls will slap you? If you read again you will also realize that this was an apology from PA community for the caused downtime. So hard to understand? And please excuse me if I put a breeze of justification in it as it is my galaxy that got messed which we all spent weaks for.

Haha you keep making funny comments. The reason why i'm complaining is, like any other paying PA player, I play because i enjoy the game. Not because i'm waiting for oppertunities to exploid bugs. And if I could exploid one, I sure as hell wouldn't.
1. Pa - Team can see every click you've made ingame if they want.
2. Cheaters are bound to be busted, either because they tell someone that passes it on and so on, or because it will be noticed by others without that you tell anyone.
3. Untill you get humble enough to actually apologize without justifying things, then I will stop complaining.
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Unread 23 Jun 2010, 23:59   #32
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
1. Pa - Team can see every click you've made ingame if they want.
2. Cheaters are bound to be busted, either because they tell someone that passes it on and so on, or because it will be noticed by others without that you tell anyone.
3. Untill you get humble enough to actually apologize without justifying things, then I will stop complaining.
So my friend. Thanks for this comment. But you really show your own argumentation is wrong.

1. Pa Team can see every click. They checked it. I HAVEN'T BEEN CLOSED! Do you get it now? I haven't been closed! Not for cheating, not for abusing not for anything! Do you know get it? If not, please tell me so I can draw a picture and send an email to you so you understand it at the end.

2. Yes exactly. But after reading my response to 1, can you then please explain why you lost respect for me when I never got closed for anything? Please explain.

3. I don't need to follow your guidelines. I am not your son, buddy. Go and tell others how to write on forums. You just came here and spent your very first forum post to troll about something you don't even fully understand, even after explaining it like 10 times (here and it channel).

Do I need to say anything else? In case you didn't get it. Korsan (me) didn't get closed. Got it now?
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Unread 24 Jun 2010, 00:05   #33
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

lol lol lol

Why are you the only one in your gal then to complain?
And why did you feel that you were obliged to make this thread in the first place?

Yeh yeh, keep posting those excuses that you make, and thank "god" you are not my son.
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Unread 24 Jun 2010, 00:30   #34
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Let me reply to this as well, as I am the one most affected.

the main grudge Ace used against me/us was spending the resources.

As Korsan said, I was not actively involved in what happened the night before, and was asleep when they donated.

So, I woke up, first thing I noticed was that I went up 70 spots in the rankings.
Then I saw 50 mil resources. I ignored them at first and continued to try arrange defence for 1,5 hours.

I realised these resources already wouldn't go unnoticed. so basically for fun I spent the resources.

That's all. that's it.. that's why I got closed. I didn't plot with my galmates about abusing any bug. and I understand they reported it.

Funny thing is, the MOD didn't get closed... LOL



I feel very unfairly treated and will quit planetarion.
This MH team is a disgrace. The process has been more or less

'you are closed, you can argue as much as you want, it won't help'

power abuse.
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Unread 24 Jun 2010, 00:36   #35
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Originally Posted by pdmaster View Post
Let me reply to this as well, as I am the one most affected.

the main grudge Ace used against me/us was spending the resources.

As Korsan said, I was not actively involved in what happened the night before, and was asleep when they donated.

So, I woke up, first thing I noticed was that I went up 70 spots in the rankings.
Then I saw 50 mil resources. I ignored them at first and continued to try arrange defence for 1,5 hours.

I realised these resources already wouldn't go unnoticed. so basically for fun I spent the resources.

That's all. that's it.. that's why I got closed. I didn't plot with my galmates about abusing any bug. and I understand they reported it.

Funny thing is, the MOD didn't get closed... LOL



I feel very unfairly treated and will quit planetarion.
This MH team is a disgrace. The process has been more or less

'you are closed, you can argue as much as you want, it won't help'

power abuse.


Ok, that explains a bit. Well sad that the MoD didn't get closed then, looks like he deserved it imo. Scheme or no scheme, he shared out the "stolen" goods.

Sucks that the PA - team or Ace did what he did.
Hope you have already told him this ^
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Unread 24 Jun 2010, 09:58   #36
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdmaster View Post


I feel very unfairly treated and will quit planetarion.
This MH team is a disgrace. The process has been more or less

'you are closed, you can argue as much as you want, it won't help'

power abuse.
Tbh, I still think youīre all completely retarded idiots for spending the resources, even if it was just for shit and giggles. Itīs the one thing you certainly shouldnīt have done. In the end, itīs not your job to force a tickstop and game closure. Donating 1.7 mil value total to several planets should have gotten you enough attention anyway.

However, since there is a run&hide option, closures should not only auto-recall fleets but also put them into base safely. Itīs not like people do a Wishmater (I think it was Wish who got himself closed to avoid being FCed, but could be mistaken) every day. That way planets in question would only lose roids but could still play on if reopened.
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Unread 24 Jun 2010, 10:49   #37
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Itīs not like people do a Wishmater (I think it was Wish who got himself closed to avoid being FCed, but could be mistaken) every day.
You can always make an exception for fleetcaught ships.
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Unread 24 Jun 2010, 15:36   #38
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
The people we donated got online, and because we knew ticks were going to stop we didn't send out a pa mail not to use the ressources. They did what 99% of all planetarion players would do - they spent the ressources.
You can't actually expect us to accept this. 50 million resources is quite a bit, even for a large planet. They HAD to know the resources were bugged. pdmaster explained the 'for shits and giggles' excuse, but it doesn't work that way unfortunately. I understand that you wouldn't have reported the bug if you had actually intended to abuse it, but there's no reason to spend it and not either donate it back or just let it sit. It's common sense. You guys knew, you made the conscious decision to use the resources and now you don't want to pay the price. Welcome to the real world.*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
Until there we organised defense without putting the production stuff into calculation. We organised defense like always and even emoed about the lack of defense in alliance channels. We cross defended and used all our fleets. The production never was meant to defend us as we gambled on a tick stop much earlier and a cancel of production.
This made me laugh. Quite noble of you not to count on using the productions you shouldn't have been receiving in the first place. As previously stated, ticks would NOT have had to be stopped if you guys hadn't abused the bug like you did 'for shits and giggles'. I bet the PATeam was giggling a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
So now we are at the point where those planets are being closed by the head multihunter Ace which does an Ace job being not objective.
Ace has taken quite a bit of heat recently, but in this situation he seemed to be pretty reasonable (aside from pdmaster losing his fleet). Not really sure what else you want from him, you had a lapse in judgement and paid the associated price. Welcome to the real world.*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
It's like accusing somebody who bought a stolen cell phone over ebay not knowing it was stolen but letting the seller run away.
No. No it's not at all. It's like buying an item worth several thousand dollars for $20 and then pretending like you didn't think it was fishy. I had someone try to sell me '$3000 speakers out of the back of a van for $40'. Would I love $3000 speakers for $40? Sure! Did I buy them? No. It's not that difficult to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
pdmaster lost half his fleet to a zik when he was still banned. At this point our gal was dead. Our motivation and hopes are broken.
This is bad. I agree with you here. I would hope that there could be something done to fix this but I think you're going to have a hard time winning that battle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
Let me state my point of view on this:
- we never intended to cheat
- we never caused this bug on purpose
- we never told our galmates that we donate metal to them
- we never refused reporting this, we reported this as soon as we saw it
- if we wanted to abuse and cheat we would have let those incomming hostiles pass and rebuild our stuff with this bug being unnoticed
You might not have 'intended' to cheat, but you did something that you admitted would be undone by a potential stoppage of the game. You intentionally put the ships - that you knew you shouldn't have - into production which is pretty much the same thing.


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Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
<sic to end>
At this point you're not helping your case. I don't think you lot were truly trying to cheat or get a benefit out of the bug, but you're whining and trying to defend a pretty clear lapse in judgement. You should have found the bug and stopped there.

Additionally, someone mentioned this earlier, but if what you say is true about reporting the bug via IRC, why did it take so long for a response? This story/explanation leads me to believe that it was close to 12 hours between when the 50m was donated and the game was stopped. Why the delay?

Mainly -

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Stop pissing everybody off.
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Unread 24 Jun 2010, 17:15   #39
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

also i think the 'it was reported' excuse is a tad lame too. you pm'd appoco. appoco is a busy man who doesn't sit on irc and babysit pa 24/7 when you didn't get a reply, you could have easily gone into #support to see who else was online. but when you got no response and decided to 'test the bug' by yourselves.. that was the lack of judgement. and when the res was donated a SIMPLE galaxy mail to the planets being donated saying 'hey we have a bug don't spend the res' would have prevented a lot of headaches your gal is currently having.
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Unread 25 Jun 2010, 07:44   #40
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

This is what happens when you dont have your mom around, you know i would have said make sure no-one spends those resources !
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Unread 25 Jun 2010, 11:14   #41
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Originally Posted by rUl3r View Post
However, since there is a run&hide option, closures should not only auto-recall fleets but also put them into base safely. Itīs not like people do a Wishmater (I think it was Wish who got himself closed to avoid being FCed, but could be mistaken) every day. That way planets in question would only lose roids but could still play on if reopened.
hehe. Happy days!! ye I got myself closed by mailing shit to Cain, and then told him to report it. Thing is, I also changed my fleet names, and apparantly when I then had 3fleetnames who were all a bit offencive, that counted as 3 warnings or something so I didnt get reopened again. Which was only fair I spose! But maaaaan, that would have been epic if I had managed to get myself closed, fleets recalled... and then reopened again in time to prevent cardi and asc / his lith friends to FC me. Was just worth the risk in a hopelessly shit round!


Regarding these closures. Laughable shit tbh. They reported it before they "abused" it. So they have done nothing wrong imo. Calling it cheating when there was no chance in hell that they could get away with it...
****ing retards all of you.
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Unread 25 Jun 2010, 14:38   #42
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

Tbh korsan i think im the only one who is gonna agree with u here the others will just spend all day flaming u last rnd me and another gal mate i wont name said person tried to see if we could get the gal fund to do that however it never worked so didnt happen therefore i guarantee you there are plenty others out there who would have used it in the small donation role u described. I cant see the issue here as to why a roll back was never just performed donations etc can just be reveresed whole issue solved. Fact!
 
Unread 25 Jun 2010, 15:17   #43
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
Regarding these closures. Laughable shit tbh. They reported it before they "abused" it. So they have done nothing wrong imo. Calling it cheating when there was no chance in hell that they could get away with it...
****ing retards all of you.
I just felt reminded of that US town where you have to announce to the Sherrif if you enter the town and plan to commit a crime. If you donīt do that, you can be punished for not reporting it.
That said, if you do commit the crime, you certainly still get sentenced for it.
The chances of getting away with something hardly determine whether something is allowed or not.
Also, I donīt call it cheating. I call it "****ing things up for everyone without reason", which I find pretty shit.

Quote:
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Tbh korsan i think im the only one who is gonna agree with u here the others will just spend all day flaming u last rnd me and another gal mate i wont name said person tried to see if we could get the gal fund to do that however it never worked so didnt happen therefore i guarantee you there are plenty others out there who would have used it in the small donation role u described. I cant see the issue here as to why a roll back was never just performed donations etc can just be reveresed whole issue solved. Fact!
Actually, what I wonder most about atm is the question whether all this hassle was really needed. If it wasnīt, the galaxy in question caused a massive disruption of the game for everyone else, in which case they actually deserve some sort of punishment.
Itīs not like causing 24h downtime and a rollback because one ASSUMES ticks would have to be stopped anyway can be justified.
I feel like being roided to bits did the trick mostly though, still think fleets should have been placed on run and hide at base instead of trapping them in the slots.
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Unread 25 Jun 2010, 16:40   #44
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Tbh korsan i think im the only one who is gonna agree with u here the others will just spend all day flaming u last rnd me and another gal mate i wont name said person tried to see if we could get the gal fund to do that however it never worked so didnt happen therefore i guarantee you there are plenty others out there who would have used it in the small donation role u described. I cant see the issue here as to why a roll back was never just performed donations etc can just be reveresed whole issue solved. Fact!
Well, thank God there are lots of people that understand this and support me. The forum troll squad ofc waits like harpies for this. They won't miss it.

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This is what happens when you dont have your mom around, you know i would have said make sure no-one spends those resources !
You still miss me, right?
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Unread 25 Jun 2010, 17:59   #45
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

I wonder if Korsan was acting on his own initiative.
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Unread 25 Jun 2010, 18:44   #46
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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I wonder if Korsan was acting on his own initiative.
<Big questionmark here>
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Unread 25 Jun 2010, 20:02   #47
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Well, thank God there are lots of people that understand this and support me. The forum troll squad ofc waits like harpies for this. They won't miss it.
Seems like you consider anyone who disagrees with you a troll.
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Unread 25 Jun 2010, 22:10   #48
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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Seems like you consider anyone who disagrees with you a troll.
yes.
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Unread 25 Jun 2010, 22:36   #49
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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yes.
maybe you should just stop lieing.. http://pastebin.org/351823
Utterly disgusted with you as well santa.
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Unread 25 Jun 2010, 23:29   #50
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Re: The Big blackout and the consequences

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maybe you should just stop lieing.. http://pastebin.org/351823
Utterly disgusted with you as well santa.
I don'T remember ever playing as Joseph in my whole pa career. So you fail again with your accusations as I never was part of that conversation. But maybe you find the one I had with Santa myself. Just dig some more and I hope you find it.
Maybe you think we have a common collective consciousness like the borg, but we havent. So there is no way you can make me responsible for the conversation between 2 ppl.

But yeah if I was you I'd do the same because there is no other evidence against me or SIX of my galmates which also got punished for this.

Btw I especially like line 53 and 54 of your fail evidence. Maybe you want to read up and tell me again I am lying? Or will you at the end just see that we never wanted to abuse it? I am sure you'll make the wrong conclusion again.
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