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Unread 6 Aug 2009, 14:28   #1
MiX
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Etd: salvage for killing ships

The suggestion is to give Etd salvage when they kill ships in offence as well as defence. Etd is suposed to be a race of scavengers, so why not scavenge the battlefield after battle? They do need parts of all races to make their own mixed racial ships.

At this time they dont really have a "racial" traits like EMP/Cloak/Steal.

This salvage when attacking might be similar to zik stealing but it is still enough different to be a distinct ability. It can give Etd its own playstyle where it "steals" like zik, but rather then getting a very diverse fleet Etd can invest these stolen goods in their own ships.
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Unread 6 Aug 2009, 14:49   #2
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

I like the idea of giving etd something different but realistically this would just mean all etds would have to newbie bash to a horrific extent.
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Unread 6 Aug 2009, 14:57   #3
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

It could scale like roidcap ratio depending on relative planet values. Thats planet values and not fleet values.

It should only add a minor advantage to newbie bashing if any, not significant enough to make newb bashing viable. Like all stats tweaking the percentage and mechanism will be required.
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Unread 6 Aug 2009, 15:39   #4
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

It probably has some potential in there. It could add a little variance to battles/calcing as well which might be interesting. I'd like to see the actual system you'd propose first though!
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Unread 6 Aug 2009, 20:24   #5
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

At this time I have multiple suggestions as to how this can work. It would be good to discuss those in this thread.

1- Most basic; Just give a percentage of the killed ship value to the Etd attacker, similar to salvage but with a restriction to prevent newb bashing. One example formula would be:

salvage = 10% * (targetValue/ownValue)^2/(0.5^2 + (targetValue/ownValue)^2)

Which is a function between 0 and 10% depending on how big the difference in values between self and target value is. Changing the 0.5 can change at which relative value this function caps, changing the ^2 will vary the steepness of the function. (sigmoid function)

2- Reintroduce cargo ships and give them to Etd. Only this time, instead of stealing resources of a planet they can steal scrap metal. This would require a bit more effort from the Etd player. Formula can stay as in idea 1 but with an added factor for the number of scavenger ships.

3- Actually, cargo ships themselves might be worth considering for an Etd player. Atleast that can prevent some stockpiling of resources. Again with a similar value formula to prevent newb abuse.

Those are my ideas so far, but it is all very open for thought thru suggestions.

There are some points of discussion:
- Should Etd scavange defence aswell as offence scraps?
- If there are multiple scavengers, will they share the spoils similar to roidcap? (yes imo)
- What shipclass should scavenger ships be if they are used?
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Unread 15 Aug 2009, 00:05   #6
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

How about just giving them a few scavenging ships with a small amount of fire power. The resource value of any ship destroyed by these ships are transferred to the Etd player.

Their firepower should be very small compared to ships of similar cost (perhaps just 20%) so an Etd player can't just build lots of scavenging ships and expect to win a battle against a fleet of similar value.
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Unread 15 Aug 2009, 01:39   #7
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

How about cargo ships?
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Unread 15 Aug 2009, 09:02   #8
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
How about cargo ships?
i assume for etd only? agreed thou
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Unread 17 Aug 2009, 10:29   #9
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

I never played with cargo ships (since r22 i never saw them).
But why cargo ships only for etd?
Other subject: scavenge.
I agree with it, sure would get new features to the game and more tactical playing.
But, since etd has the advantage to steal ships, defensive bonus for etd would be too much.
Just my opinion though
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Unread 17 Aug 2009, 13:38   #10
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

I asked about cargoships pre r30 and pateam were unable/unwilling to code them at that point. Really threads like these which are proposing changes which seem practical within the space of a round should be answered by someone in a position of responsibility to say whether or not people are just wasting their time posting here.
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Unread 17 Aug 2009, 19:35   #11
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

yes, a reply from someone who would actually be involved of implementation of promising new suggestions would be appreciated. I spent some valuable time on this!
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Unread 18 Aug 2009, 06:25   #12
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

Cargoships have been on the "most wanted" list since r4, but haven't made a re-appearance yet for whatever reason. I personally like the idea, and have pushed for it.

As for Etd getting salvage from offensive kills rather than just defensive...I've never been a big fan of that scenario. We dabbled with it in the PAX beta with the xp formula, and it ended up being scrapped. I can't see this being much different.

Rewarding the offensive destruction of ships (whether in salvage or xp) is a bad idea.
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Unread 18 Aug 2009, 15:28   #13
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

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Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
Cargoships have been on the "most wanted" list since r4, but haven't made a re-appearance yet for whatever reason. I personally like the idea, and have pushed for it.

As for Etd getting salvage from offensive kills rather than just defensive...I've never been a big fan of that scenario. We dabbled with it in the PAX beta with the xp formula, and it ended up being scrapped. I can't see this being much different.

Rewarding the offensive destruction of ships (whether in salvage or xp) is a bad idea.
I would like to hear some more argumentation, what were the main problems? There might be a way around them.
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Unread 18 Aug 2009, 15:42   #14
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

Bashing would be one of the main issues. You could also exploit out of tag planets (support planets).
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Unread 19 Aug 2009, 07:45   #15
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Re: Etd: salvage for killing ships

You all forgot to mention this would also have be a temptation to try farming and/or donations, though illegal, i suspect there would be more of it occurring, akin to putting a loaded weapon in someones hand at a firing range and telling them not to shoot at the targets !
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