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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 12:28   #1
Mistwraith
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say sorry!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-the-Pope.html

Overview :

The knights templar want the pope to set the record straight, as a book which was mis-catagorised was discovered which proves that they were neither heretics or devil worshippers.

Now most of us will have watched/read about the templars and their fall from ecumenical grace because of fear their power, from what i can see of this newest bit of information, the man that feared them was not the pope but the king of France!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-Templar.html
Is this another nail in the coffin of the catholic church ?

Would this set a precedent for relatives of anyone burned as a witch ?

I'm intrigued, can the catholic church afford to loose this one ?
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Last edited by Mistwraith; 5 Aug 2008 at 12:33. Reason: error in url posting
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 12:35   #2
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Re: say sorry!

the church as an entity will become obsolete anyway given enough time.
All they can do is hang on for as long as they can - and given the way they handled paedo-priests, i dont see them apologising for quite a while
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 17:07   #3
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Re: say sorry!

I cant see it making much difference among the millions of catholics in the world. And the catholic church does not have much credibility among most non believers due to many more pressing issues.

as to whether it would set a precident, I dont think so, and if it did it would not just be the catholic church that would be affected but also the major states of europe as well as the protestant churches that were around up to the middle of the eighteenth century or so when accusations of witchcraft mostly dissapeared.
I dont see why we should reopen things done so long ago, I doubt there are many ppl today who feel particularly strongly about an ancestor so many generations ago having been falsely accused, if they do I see no reason why those ppl should not be posthumously pardoned on a case by case basis.
In the case of the templars it is worth setting the record straight because it is such a well known case that is recorded in history books... however it is the job of historians rather than lawyers to work out the truth of what happened so long ago (tho the catholic church admitting any wrongdoing on their part would help things along immensely).
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 19:43   #4
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Re: say sorry!

a) There are no Knights Templar - just some loonies make silly claims,
b) By posting this absurd rubbish you are just as bad
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 21:09   #5
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Re: say sorry!

It's as credible as Simon Templar, and he was a saint.
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 21:30   #6
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Re: say sorry!

I pretty much agree with Yahwe, but if at any point it looks like the loonies are gonna make alot of money I'm more than willing to pretend to be a Knights Templar too!
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 22:18   #7
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Re: say sorry!

that the people who have brought the case may be loonies for claiming to be decended from the knights templar does not really matter (tho given how meny generations ago the knights templar were some of them are bound to really be decended from the knights templar).
The article says they are not after money but simply to clear the knights name, if so this seems a worthy enough excersise if the knights are really innocent of the charge of heresy (as they probably mostly are... there were good reasons for the pope and the french king to get rid of a rich group), though I believe that this should be done by historians rather than through legal means. It is the idea that such an investigation should be done through a lawsuit that seems to be the mad thing to me.
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Unread 5 Aug 2008, 22:22   #8
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Re: say sorry!

the knights templar were a bunch of over powered gits. too much money. too much 'honor'. too much power. The papacy and the king of france were no better. no worse.

one bunch of bad guys won. one bunch of bad guys lost.
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Unread 6 Aug 2008, 00:24   #9
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Re: say sorry!

It's not very noble for a Catholic to sue the pope for 100 billion euros.
I'm pretty sure that warrants a ticket to hell.
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Last edited by Alessio; 6 Aug 2008 at 00:30.
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Unread 6 Aug 2008, 07:45   #10
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Re: say sorry!

As Yahwe says, one set of bad guys lost, one set of bad guys won, the Knights Templar were a religious army, the Knights Hospitaler were the ones with the noble intentions.

But setting that aside, I think a legal precedent that the head of a church is responsible for the actions of his predecessor and his church's historical thefts and crimes no matter how far back in time would open a flood gate !

I think that the pope will issue some sort of statement that is well worded, vindicating the Knights Templar before the whole thing comes to court as a kind of out of court settlement, beacuse the muck that could be raked up would damage further an already badly discreditted church.
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Unread 6 Aug 2008, 10:19   #11
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Re: say sorry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistwraith View Post
As Yahwe says, one set of bad guys lost, one set of bad guys won, the Knights Templar were a religious army, the Knights Hospitaler were the ones with the noble intentions.

But setting that aside, I think a legal precedent that the head of a church is responsible for the actions of his predecessor and his church's historical thefts and crimes no matter how far back in time would open a flood gate !

I think that the pope will issue some sort of statement that is well worded, vindicating the Knights Templar before the whole thing comes to court as a kind of out of court settlement, beacuse the muck that could be raked up would damage further an already badly discreditted church.
I don't think anyone's really going to give a shit about this. I mean we managed to move on over the Inquisition right? I think there might be slightly more relevant issues with the Catholic church to be honest.
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Unread 6 Aug 2008, 14:11   #12
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Re: say sorry!

I love how people in the 21st Century can claim to be Knights Templar and expect to be taken seriously. It's charmingly naive.

Although I still think their beheading and incineration is the best all-round solution.

I just realised we have our own "executed Templar" smiley:
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