User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Suggestions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 25 Mar 2009, 17:45   #1
[ND]Byrney
Nobody
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London
Posts: 178
[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold
Salvage is too high

Please lower it, it makes the game boring. You can't land an attack and kill more of them than they did of you (after salvage) unless you kill more than 2x as much

Say for example you landed an attack, killed 10mil value and lost 5mil. They get 40% of the 10mil straight back, so 4mil right there. Then they get 30% of the 5mil lost by attackers and they're up to 5.5mil worth of salvage, losing 4.5mil while attackers lose 5mil.

To make things worse, all these figures are base, for cath/terr or anyone outside the t20 the salvage gets even higher. Please reduce the salvage so wars can be won and not just lost.
[ND]Byrney is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Mar 2009, 17:47   #2
zebra
h3ll's angels
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 273
zebra is a splendid one to beholdzebra is a splendid one to beholdzebra is a splendid one to beholdzebra is a splendid one to beholdzebra is a splendid one to beholdzebra is a splendid one to beholdzebra is a splendid one to beholdzebra is a splendid one to behold
Re: Salvage is too high

Seconded.
__________________
[18:04] * h3ll has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
zebra is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Mar 2009, 17:50   #3
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Salvage is too high

Maybe if you didn't crash so much, you wouldn't be donating us all this salvage.

(On a more serious note, I'd like to see it back at the 15% and 20% rates for killing and losing ships, respectively.)
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Mar 2009, 17:50   #4
Heartless
CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
 
Heartless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
Heartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Salvage is too high

Yes and no. Salvage is definitely pretty damn high, but on the other hand it's also the only thing that actually makes waging war worthwhile in this game, so tipping that value too much down you'd end up with ... err ... yes ... less war. in a war game. we don't need that.
__________________
Ià! Ià! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
Heartless is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Mar 2009, 18:14   #5
[ND]Byrney
Nobody
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London
Posts: 178
[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Maybe if you didn't crash so much, you wouldn't be donating us all this salvage.

(On a more serious note, I'd like to see it back at the 15% and 20% rates for killing and losing ships, respectively.)
I haven't crashed for ages The problem I have with it is that rounds are basically decided by who makes least mistakes. Whilst I think this should play some role, I don't think suicide def should be such a viable option as it ty much removes (imo) fun aspects of the game, FCs to mention one. Has anyone landed a succesful FC this round? Maybe last round?
[ND]Byrney is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Mar 2009, 18:18   #6
[ND]Byrney
Nobody
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London
Posts: 178
[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold[ND]Byrney is a splendid one to behold
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
Yes and no. Salvage is definitely pretty damn high, but on the other hand it's also the only thing that actually makes waging war worthwhile in this game, so tipping that value too much down you'd end up with ... err ... yes ... less war. in a war game. we don't need that.
How d'you figure high salvage makes waging war worthwhile? It really depends how you look at it, during the main bulk of the round I can understand people wanting the salvage to be high, so if 2 allies go to war they don't get outstripped by any ally not involved. But then again if salvage was reduced, it wouldn't really have much bearing on whether attacks are lands or not until late on and you need to chase down score. It would make defence harder, yes, but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.
[ND]Byrney is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Mar 2009, 18:25   #7
Banned
Banned
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ******
Posts: 2,326
Banned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so littleBanned contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Salvage is too high

Completely agree, salvage is way too high. From IRC with Appoco yesterday:

23:30:56 <@jesterina> 15/20 was pretty much perfect
23:31:01 <@jesterina> I hate salvage and I found that acceptable!
23:31:13 <@Appocomaster> lol
23:31:23 <@jesterina> it struck a great balance
23:31:28 <@jesterina> I don't get why you guys ever changed that :\
23:31:35 <@jesterina> you literally can't go wrong with 15/20
23:32:01 <@jesterina> it means you get rewarded for good defs, but you can still put together good attacks

Hate salvage was a bit of a hyperbole, but in general yeah, 15/20 is the way to go.
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Mar 2009, 18:34   #8
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ND]Byrney View Post
I haven't crashed for ages The problem I have with it is that rounds are basically decided by who makes least mistakes. Whilst I think this should play some role, I don't think suicide def should be such a viable option as it ty much removes (imo) fun aspects of the game, FCs to mention one. Has anyone landed a succesful FC this round? Maybe last round?
That's because FCs are retarded. I wouldn't bother with them if salvage was like 5/10%. You'll always be able to make more score, now that zik ships can't gain value in stealng, in good def and well-covered attacks.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Mar 2009, 18:50   #9
Game^
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 531
Game^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to behold
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
That's because FCs are retarded. I wouldn't bother with them if salvage was like 5/10%. You'll always be able to make more score, now that zik ships can't gain value in stealng, in good def and well-covered attacks.
*cough cough*
Game^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Mar 2009, 18:57   #10
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^ View Post
*cough cough*
If you're talking about us yesterday that fc was entirely accidental. Didn't even realise until we jgped after the tick to see who launched.


You self-important idiot you.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.

Last edited by JonnyBGood; 25 Mar 2009 at 19:05.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Mar 2009, 13:43   #11
Hude
self-entitledly superior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 341
Hude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant futureHude has a brilliant future
Re: Salvage is too high

i think salvage is just fine as it is HAHA
Hude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Mar 2009, 16:36   #12
M0RPH3US
idle
 
M0RPH3US's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
M0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really nice
Re: Salvage is too high

i agree it beeing to high, and i dont see a reason to give more salvage to cathaar and terran.
the argumentation about cathaar, i may be able to understand, as they dont kill, but on the other hand emp is such a strong weapon in defence, i dont think they should have another benefit
terran i dont know anyhow why they have more salvage then others, think some terran player coded this

remove salvage bonus for cat/ter
reduce salvage to 15-20%
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz

"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
M0RPH3US is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Mar 2009, 16:41   #13
_Kila_
break it down!
 
_Kila_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,087
_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society_Kila_ is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Salvage is too high

The race bonuses are what make races different... I think that cath + terr having bonus salvage is a good idea.
__________________
I put the sex in dyslexia!
_Kila_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Mar 2009, 16:44   #14
M0RPH3US
idle
 
M0RPH3US's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
M0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really nice
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
The race bonuses are what make races different... I think that cath + terr having bonus salvage is a good idea.
but why ?

as said i can understand the reasons for cath

but why terran ?
just to have em diffrent ? < a bit bad as explanation me thinks
as they have diffrent ships allready
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz

"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
M0RPH3US is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Mar 2009, 17:14   #15
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Salvage is too high

Terran is weak offensively. The salvage bonus they get is to compensate for that.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Mar 2009, 17:23   #16
M0RPH3US
idle
 
M0RPH3US's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
M0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really nice
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Terran is weak offensively. The salvage bonus they get is to compensate for that.
dunno
i dont see this
but its ok, thats not the matter of this thread anyhow
and i can definately live with the salvage bonus, if salvage gets reduced
i dont need the jackpot, 100 Euro win is good enough
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz

"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
M0RPH3US is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Mar 2009, 17:53   #17
Zaejii
This Space for Rent
Speedy Thief Champion, Turbo Turtle Champion, Cop-For-This Champion
 
Zaejii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
Zaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud of
Re: Salvage is too high

terran is high armour low damage low init (usually). the salvage bonus is there because they normally have to soak some shots before getting to fire back in defence, whilst firing back weakly when they do.

the bonus for cathaar should be pretty obvious with them not killing much as it is.
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
Zaejii is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Mar 2009, 17:55   #18
Light
You've Seen The Light
Speed Cards Champion
 
Light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,152
Light has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salvage is too high

I've been thinking about this but its hard to come up with suggestions for the salvage mechanic when i dont know its main intention?
1. Is it there to help the planet under attack rebuild if he gets his fleet wiped out while he's offline? i.e. its main intention is to not leave the 'new/inactive' players with nothing? Then shouldnt salvage just be for the defending planet? rather than all defenders? (and then, only his fleet gets salvage). With this, you could even buff the salvage mechanic, As no-one would gain score from it and it would help those that lost there fleets by not logging in at the morning to rebuild. It would also make it easier to attack, as defending is made harder.
2. Is its intentions to help all defenders rebuild if they mis-calc? If this is the case, then you cant really argue that its for the new players.. as they arnt going to be sending that much defence It also hinders the new players who get there fleet wiped out by not logging in, as they now are forced to get less salvage due to the salvage % has to be kept low to stop big allies abusing it.

There is no real compromise between the two, you need to decide what you want salvage to do.. Then alter the mechanic. We seem to of come full circle with the salvage mechanic, its original intention was to help inactives rebuild after getting there fleets wiped out, then it was changed to give the advantage to all defenders and now the % has crept up as it was realised that 10/20% salvage for inactives isnt enough.

My suggestion would be for only the defending planet gets salvage and only for his/her losses. This would allow you to give a high % of salvage back to them, As anybody online would simply move there fleet. Then find other ways to buff defenders, This could be from anywhere but the most logical would be to change the ETA system.. From Attacking ETA is 10 and defending eta is -2 (i.e. 8). So you get an extra tick to find the extra defenders needed, the top alliances shouldnt mind as this gives them an advantage (as they are the ones who can find the extra defenders) and it helps the new/inactive players as you can give them more salvage.
__________________
First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.

Last edited by Light; 26 Mar 2009 at 18:04.
Light is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Mar 2009, 17:56   #19
Wishmaster
LDK
 
Wishmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
Wishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himWishmaster is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Salvage is too high

agreed with initial post, and I have said this on several places on the forums already this round. Salvage is too high
__________________
[Omen]

Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
Wishmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Mar 2009, 03:24   #20
TheGoaT
Old Timer
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Your sisters panties
Posts: 201
TheGoaT is a splendid one to beholdTheGoaT is a splendid one to beholdTheGoaT is a splendid one to beholdTheGoaT is a splendid one to beholdTheGoaT is a splendid one to beholdTheGoaT is a splendid one to behold
Re: Salvage is too high

I like the salvage the way it is because it rewards ppl for defending their m8s. Considering 9/10 of the covered attacks you defend recall and you just wait for your fleet to come back, that 1 time they crash you are rewarded is kinda nice.
__________________
Round 1-6: ND, Xanadu(RedBull)
Round 13: LCH
Round 14-18: [1up]
Round 19-20: Ascendancy
Round 21: Quit
Round 30: Ascendancy
Round 75-81: DLR
TheGoaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Mar 2009, 06:50   #21
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
I've been thinking about this but its hard to come up with suggestions for the salvage mechanic when i dont know its main intention?
1. Is it there to help the planet under attack rebuild if he gets his fleet wiped out while he's offline? i.e. its main intention is to not leave the 'new/inactive' players with nothing? Then shouldnt salvage just be for the defending planet? rather than all defenders? (and then, only his fleet gets salvage). With this, you could even buff the salvage mechanic, As no-one would gain score from it and it would help those that lost there fleets by not logging in at the morning to rebuild. It would also make it easier to attack, as defending is made harder.
2. Is its intentions to help all defenders rebuild if they mis-calc? If this is the case, then you cant really argue that its for the new players.. as they arnt going to be sending that much defence It also hinders the new players who get there fleet wiped out by not logging in, as they now are forced to get less salvage due to the salvage % has to be kept low to stop big allies abusing it.
The way I've viewed it is that it's a way to balance out rewards for attack/defence.

With salvage, def is actually worth doing. In a war it means that clever defensive battles are rewarded.

We've played rounds before where attacking was pretty much the only thing worth doing (before the XP formula got tweaked) and IMO it was pretty boring.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Mar 2009, 14:15   #22
Light
You've Seen The Light
Speed Cards Champion
 
Light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,152
Light has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond reputeLight has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
The way I've viewed it is that it's a way to balance out rewards for attack/defence.

With salvage, def is actually worth doing. In a war it means that clever defensive battles are rewarded.

We've played rounds before where attacking was pretty much the only thing worth doing (before the XP formula got tweaked) and IMO it was pretty boring.
Yeah but doesnt that view have major flaws? As in you only get rewarded if the attacker crashes his/her fleet? and the more they crash, the more your rewarded? Isnt that a huge problem, as while the defenders are rewarded, havent you got to ruin someones round to get that reward? Active players simply wont crash, so you'll only be getting salvage from those that didnt login in the morning
__________________
First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
Light is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Mar 2009, 16:55   #23
Zeyi
Tides of Fire
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 318
Zeyi is just really niceZeyi is just really niceZeyi is just really niceZeyi is just really niceZeyi is just really nice
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Yeah but doesnt that view have major flaws? As in you only get rewarded if the attacker crashes his/her fleet? and the more they crash, the more your rewarded? Isnt that a huge problem, as while the defenders are rewarded, havent you got to ruin someones round to get that reward? Active players simply wont crash, so you'll only be getting salvage from those that didnt login in the morning
It's a war game, crushing people into nothing is part of it.
__________________
Quote:
"Hold the newsreader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers."
Zeyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Mar 2009, 17:19   #24
gzambo
Fightin-irish for life
 
gzambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
gzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant futuregzambo has a brilliant future
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Active players simply wont crash
CBA begs to differ although he probably wins crash of the round
gzambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Mar 2009, 17:32   #25
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Active players simply wont crash
Quite alot of active players like their booze and their drugz.. they can screw up ur morning
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Mar 2009, 19:50   #26
Linkie
fanboy
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 492
Linkie is a splendid one to beholdLinkie is a splendid one to beholdLinkie is a splendid one to beholdLinkie is a splendid one to beholdLinkie is a splendid one to beholdLinkie is a splendid one to behold
Re: Salvage is too high

While some inactive players never crash!
__________________
Ascendancy, former [1UP] & Ministry.

FOUNDER OF THE OFFICIAL ASCENDANCY LADY GAGA FAN CLUB

ASCENDANCY DEMOLITION MAN
Linkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Mar 2009, 19:57   #27
M0RPH3US
idle
 
M0RPH3US's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
M0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really nice
Re: Salvage is too high

hmmm, i think salvage is too high (still)

but i understand that defence should be rewarding
however i think its too easy to cover attacks with the high salvage we have

got a cruising idea

what about adding salvage pods to the game
ships which collect salvage after battle (init 23) if they survived it

that would require some more defence fleets each call i think, to make the defenders cap enough salvage to gain the maximum of 40% salvage
so if its a semi-good defence, attackers may loose more, but defenders would hardly cap any salvage, at least not 40%

you could even think about adding salvage for attackers (like up to 10%)

this could add another dimension to the game
and would be more logical, cause i always wondered how the salvage was collected(probably though with the same beam technology which transports the roids you cap to your planet, while the pods who capped em, are still flying back home )
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz

"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
M0RPH3US is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Mar 2009, 21:59   #28
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Yeah but doesnt that view have major flaws? As in you only get rewarded if the attacker crashes his/her fleet? and the more they crash, the more your rewarded? Isnt that a huge problem, as while the defenders are rewarded, havent you got to ruin someones round to get that reward? Active players simply wont crash, so you'll only be getting salvage from those that didnt login in the morning
It's not always the act of getting the salvage that matters, it's the fact you have to include that in your calc.

Salvage makes real defence worthwhile, so more real defence is sent/more planets get defended.

It's a delicate balance, trying to get rewards for attack and defence to even out, and it's pretty subjective too. Some people prefer a more attacking style, some more defensive... but I think that most would agree the previous XP formula made attacking too easy, and many would agree that the current salvage values make defence too easy.

We had a pretty comfortable middle zone with lower salvage and the current XP bonuses last time I played (which was r27 iirc).
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28 Mar 2009, 19:51   #29
[JungleMuffin]
Registered User
Apple Hunt Champion, Super Hacky Sack Champion
 
[JungleMuffin]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In bed with your mum.
Posts: 664
[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about
Re: Salvage is too high

Defense is rewarding enough in the sense that you save your mates roids, enabling them to grow, while stopping the enemy from capping. You have a cumulative effect with this as one side eventually establishes dominance.

Imo salvage should only be there the rebuild fleets incase of not being able to run them. Salvage should be reasonable enough for the defenders to rebuild somewhat from a major hiccup, whilst getting a token cookie for killing the attacker. I believe that was the original intention of salvage, not to be used as an income substitute for roids.

Zik salvage these days is somewhat of a piss take, theyve got the quite high AC/DC, the ability to cover fleet holes quite easily, eventually pull of some quite nasty faking, and usually have 1 or 2 highly effective non steal ships. I think salvage should not only be looked at for the game in general, but also zik stealing salvage.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?

Last edited by [JungleMuffin]; 28 Mar 2009 at 20:04.
[JungleMuffin] is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28 Mar 2009, 20:09   #30
Zotnam
Over the moon
Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Sperm Wars Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Deeeeenmark
Posts: 547
Zotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant future
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Zik salvage these days is somewhat of a piss take, theyve got the quite high AC/DC, the ability to cover fleet holes quite easily, eventually pull of some quite nasty faking, and usually have 1 or 2 highly effective non steal ships. I think salvage should not only be looked at for the game in general, but also zik stealing salvage.
I completely disagree, zik is the most defensive race by nature (last to shoot), if salvage was removed it would be pointless to play them. One thing that should be looked at is the ziks getting ALL the salvage when there are more defenders, afaik stolen ships dont count as killed so all the salvage goes to the zik alone when stuff is stolen.

Tbh the last good normal zik ship I remember was the Brigand way back in round 26 and the non-steal ships this round are beyond horrible. The problems with roiding certain ziks has less to do with the stats and more to do with circumstances
__________________
Golan - Ascendancy

Planets.
Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)

Those damn emp races..
Zotnam is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28 Mar 2009, 20:41   #31
[JungleMuffin]
Registered User
Apple Hunt Champion, Super Hacky Sack Champion
 
[JungleMuffin]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In bed with your mum.
Posts: 664
[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about[JungleMuffin] has a spectacular aura about
Re: Salvage is too high

Clipper beats ETD DE
Rogue beats Ter and Xan BS
Cat says it all.

You can effectively land on every single race given the right fleet makeup. ETD sure as hell cant do that, 2 maybe? one of them cat. Not to mention, zik have a far better ability to strengthen attack/defense even further.

Being restricted to not being able to roid _every_ planet in the game. Oh noes.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?
[JungleMuffin] is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28 Mar 2009, 21:27   #32
Zotnam
Over the moon
Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Sperm Wars Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Deeeeenmark
Posts: 547
Zotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant futureZotnam has a brilliant future
Re: Salvage is too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Clipper beats ETD DE
Rogue beats Ter and Xan BS
Cat says it all.

You can effectively land on every single race given the right fleet makeup. ETD sure as hell cant do that, 2 maybe? one of them cat. Not to mention, zik have a far better ability to strengthen attack/defense even further.

Being restricted to not being able to roid _every_ planet in the game. Oh noes.
Who the **** has built any of those ships? No zik I know, even if they look good on stats, trust me they suck in game. Seriously adding zik cr to a bcalc is just bloating the value because the ships are so much worse than the alternative cr/bs. For solo'ing the only thing you can hit as zik is emp, and thank god so many players go for that still heh.

Everyone can potentially land on everyone, ETD is pretty much the best roiding race this round(CAT aren't real planets, when will people get this..), no ****ing idea what your point is with that post other than to show you are clueless.
__________________
Golan - Ascendancy

Planets.
Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)

Those damn emp races..

Last edited by Zotnam; 28 Mar 2009 at 21:35.
Zotnam is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 13:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018