User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Strategic Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 13 Oct 2008, 18:13   #101
Baba
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 10
Baba is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: r29 shipstats

I'm surprised noone has pointed out how strong co/fi teamups look ><
Baba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Oct 2008, 18:45   #102
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baba View Post
I'm surprised noone has pointed out how strong co/fi teamups look ><
They always look strong and it's (nearly) always overcomeable! Especially with this round's mantis. I don't think it will be much of an issue.


Isil: the broad is a CR killer, albeit not great at it.

My concern for etd is that they need widows or they're horribly vulnerable to BS. They need CR/BS to attack with, plus widows (which already target the same stuff their CR/BS does) plus anti FI/CO. I have a feeling that having to invest heavily in so many ships might turn out to be a serious problem for them. FR/DE looks like the most sensible route.

Also, terran BS looks nice but I'd be tempted to go pure DE as a terran, with FI for faking. The sheer number of cloaked def could get really annoying but having almost all your res invested in a single class would make you pretty difficult to hit for zero loss!
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Oct 2008, 18:46   #103
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: r29 shipstats

I'm going cath.

0loss defence against 3 classes lol

lol mantis lol
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Oct 2008, 19:20   #104
Onim
the inquisition incarnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NL, EHV
Posts: 63
Onim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to all
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Shame etd dont have any kill\steal anti cr\bs tho
just go shopping at ziks, try swapping ur thieves for corsairs and use those to steal some buccaneers. There you have ur cr/bs stealship

Oh, and the mantis is not a zero loss FR killer mz, though you dont have to worry about fi/co, thats true. This makes cath and zik the best races to choose if you want to play for value, terran if u wanna XP whore, etd can be interesting if u manage to steal, xans will have a real hard time roiding anything, especially when most ppl have siege weapons.
__________________
Think positively, be constructive, talk obsessively.

"It never hurts to Help!" [Eek the Cat]

Denying existence during r3-6 and back in denial since r22
Onim is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Oct 2008, 20:56   #105
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: r29 shipstats

Any updated bcalcs around?
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Oct 2008, 21:42   #106
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I'm going cath.

0loss defence against 3 classes lol

lol mantis lol
Looks phenominal against FI/CO. Not so great against FR IMO - the widow stuns it and xands could be packing spectre. IMO its biggest strength is how it can immunise you vs the 2 smaller classes for a very small cost and you can spend all of the rest of your resources on CR. Means you need to ground CR or build locs for def though.

If I was playing I'd go zik right now. I wouldn't play etd. I'd consider the other 3, but probably avoid cath because I don't like relying on EMP.




Isil: Thrud seems to run off the game statspage. So I assume it's up to date now the stats have been transferred to the main game?
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.

Last edited by Gate; 13 Oct 2008 at 23:15.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Oct 2008, 10:56   #107
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

Am I stupid or can someone explain what the etd pillager is going to do?
It really ought to target de aswell as fr.
The only fr worth stealing is xan fr, and a xan is very unlikely to attack an etd when the ghost does a 0 loss defence against fr.
so the pillager can only steal in attack where there is always the problem of fleets running and if a xan stood then their specs would cut the etd to pieces, the etd needs to send the broadsword to hit specs but unfortunately the shad kills em first.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Oct 2008, 11:14   #108
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: r29 shipstats

It can steal both during ingal defence and during attack. It can steal xan FR when you hold off on your CR\BS hull research eta 1.

But yes, perhaps not the best ship in recent pa history.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Oct 2008, 12:11   #109
Munkee
Dictator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
Munkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to behold
Re: r29 shipstats

Anyone able to tell me the good points of being xan?
__________________
Telegram#planetarion https://t.me/joinchat/A5Y_KUOSd7DQQgYL0051pQ
Telegram: @munkee | https://telegram.me/munkee
p3nguins alliance public telegram channel https://t.me/p3nguins
Munkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Oct 2008, 13:23   #110
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

err cloaked
I think the Fr has some serious problems, but The Fi/Co is pretty good...
but generally I agree xan are pretty flawed atm, though most of it is that battleship hole.

Though actually I like it that way!
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?

Last edited by [B5]Londo; 14 Oct 2008 at 13:30.
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Oct 2008, 13:56   #111
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: r29 shipstats

Xan FI\DE with a heavy investment in Spectre can imo work. I wanted to do xan FR but i dont think im gonna bother doing that with these stats.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Oct 2008, 18:12   #112
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
Anyone able to tell me the good points of being xan?
FI/revenant/DE and banshee/FR/DE both look decent enough & cloak is always awesome.

The FR fleet looks tough defensively, except against etd FR which are only EMP anyway.

I think the revenant actually looks really good with FI. A good DE killer & you should have a ton of FI to absorb beetle EMP so it can fire at t2. You shouldn't need many phantom to scare off attacking xands, so unless there's lots of harpies flying around the revenant might well be more important than the phant! In fact, bans/CO/spec looks viable too.



I'm still a little uncomfortable with etd... the pillager looks like it's not worth much and you have to spread your investment quite thin across various ships, at least 2 of which will be EMP.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Oct 2008, 18:28   #113
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

the flaw with a xan fleet that is high on co is that the fi might be cut out from under you, some silly ppl like me will not run in the face of even quite major losses if they have the prospect of cutting cap, presumably ur main target with a rev heavy fleet is terr, whose pegs assuming they survive in sufficient numbers will target ur pods.
so there is a fine balance between enough revs to kill the pegs and enough banshees to avoid them all getting killed by the obstinate terran who relies on his salvage bonus to keep him up.

given i was thinking of going terr and this was about my biggest fear, I curse U for saying it

just need a nice cat ingal to spam mantis!
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Oct 2008, 21:52   #114
Munkee
Dictator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
Munkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to behold
Re: r29 shipstats

To be honest, all valid points but arent xans being forced to build a stupid amount of different ships in order to cover all of their flaws, some of which (ter bs) can not be plugged. Thus reducing the effectiveness of having a strong attack fleet to take on the bigger targets if you wish? It just looks like your resources are going to be spread so thin on different class of ships that however you look at it, someone will always get through and tbh he doesnt have to be that big either especially with the low E/R and armour
__________________
Telegram#planetarion https://t.me/joinchat/A5Y_KUOSd7DQQgYL0051pQ
Telegram: @munkee | https://telegram.me/munkee
p3nguins alliance public telegram channel https://t.me/p3nguins
Munkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Oct 2008, 23:02   #115
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
To be honest, all valid points but arent xans being forced to build a stupid amount of different ships in order to cover all of their flaws, some of which (ter bs) can not be plugged. Thus reducing the effectiveness of having a strong attack fleet to take on the bigger targets if you wish? It just looks like your resources are going to be spread so thin on different class of ships that however you look at it, someone will always get through and tbh he doesnt have to be that big either especially with the low E/R and armour
Xand don't look like they have to spread their resources too far IMO. Either way, they need 4 ships:

Banshee/Revenant/Spectre & Phantom OR wraith
Banshee/spirit/shadow/spectre

Either way they're going to struggle against terr BS and probably etd FR & cath CR, but 2 of those are EMP.



That's not worse than any other race IMO. They all have vulnerabilities (although I think etd look noticeably weaker and zik noticeably stronger)

As an aside; I think cath CO/scorpion/mantis looks like an interesting proposition.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 Oct 2008, 23:09   #116
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: r29 shipstats

Xans have two natural advantages, cloak and the fact they fire first versus almost everything, that really boosts their effectiveness. There has not been a round since r21 where xan were underpowered (and let's face it that round was more about etd being overpowered versus everything than anything about xan per se). I did actually boost xan in the last stats iteration I did yesterday (they haven't been copied across to game.planetarion.com yet presuming appoco intends to do so). If I was to go xan I'd build fi/revs/spectres. With fi+revs you can roid terrans and etds solo. Thanks to the revs targetting you can go phantom-light as gate mentioned without reducing the power of your attack fleet significantly and keep a strong fleet versus zik de/ter de/cath co. You have to stay heavy on specs but this isn't really much of an issue. They're an awesome def ship.

I really don't get how people think zik look that strong. Their efficiencies are overall far worse than last round, not exactly a round noted for zik being overpowered. Sure their natural roiding fleets are slightly better but xan fr and both terran fleets would have ziks as their primary targets. Also gate the scorpion is an etd ship?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.

Last edited by JonnyBGood; 14 Oct 2008 at 23:15.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Oct 2008, 07:38   #117
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Also gate the scorpion is an etd ship?
I meant locust.

Haven't decided if it's better than just spamming CR though... I'd have to spend some time playing with calcs.


The reason I think zik look good is that you can concentrate your fleet heavily (eg cutter/CR). That said, I think that the sheer number of spectre flying around might be a serious problem for them and their effectiveness will depend on how many people go CR/BS and how many xands are available to fake their spectre. I suspect xands will do fine as always. I think cath/terr should perform ok and etds will struggle except for a few big EMP heavy planets.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.

Last edited by Gate; 15 Oct 2008 at 07:53.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Oct 2008, 12:53   #118
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: r29 shipstats

I finished as the top Xan planet in R21 (rank 31) when similar stats to these were in play. To do that I had to have over half my value in Spectres (the most of anyone in the universe iirc) and I was still roided down to 400 odd roids by BS on the last day.

That said, Xan are a bit better this round and the Spectre is improved by the fact there is no longer a BS Emp ship targeting it. Still not going xan on the current iteration though.

@JBG - I like Zik because once you steal Mantis you don't need anything smaller than a CR. I don't think they are super brilliant overall but the idea of only constructing 1 class of ship for the entire game is kind of appealing.
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Oct 2008, 12:57   #119
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: r29 shipstats

I doubt there will be many opportunities to steal mantis though, it being an ingal defence ship.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Oct 2008, 12:58   #120
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: r29 shipstats

Elviz would find a way. So will I. You will never understand greatness mz.
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Oct 2008, 13:10   #121
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: r29 shipstats

Gate, everyone bar xan can build only two classes and get away with it.

Achi, as you said there is no emp bs and the spectre is a lot better versus the wyvern than the equivalent then. I don't think stealing mantis is likely to be that awesome. Sure if you steal a few early on it'll provide some temporary protection but you're going to be a great target for any xp whores if you rely on them versus fi/co incs.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Oct 2008, 16:05   #122
Grog
Benevolent Dictator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 127
Grog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud ofGrog has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

JBG it'd be extremely helpful if you could post stat changes somewhere when you're tweaking the stats.

I think theres been minor changes a couple times now, but I can't seem to find a list of what they were.
Grog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Oct 2008, 16:24   #123
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: r29 shipstats

You can compare the stats from game.planetarion.com to beta.planetarion.com

In general I tweaked xan's efficiencies up a little bit, zik cr down a bit, ter de down a bit, etd's emp ships up a little (and I added a t3 bs to the broadsword), mantis lost a bit of efficiency and cath cr a bit of e/r. I'm fairly okay with how the stats look now, I don't think appoco wants to announce them yet until he has a good look but I'd imagine there'd only be one more set of changes from the beta.pl ones if that.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Oct 2008, 23:58   #124
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Gate, everyone bar xan can build only two classes and get away with it.
Yep...

But in previous iterations, I thought zik looked like they could get off with it the best. Eg etds could go FR/DE but they'd only be EMPing 4 classes that way, cath could go CR/BS but they'd be relying on EMP for 6-8 attack fleets. Xand I think look ok.

The new stats might sort this out, I haven't checked yet.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Oct 2008, 02:42   #125
Buddah
Knight of Ni!
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo Norway
Posts: 298
Buddah is a jewel in the roughBuddah is a jewel in the roughBuddah is a jewel in the roughBuddah is a jewel in the rough
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
You can compare the stats from game.planetarion.com to beta.planetarion.com

In general I tweaked xan's efficiencies up a little bit, zik cr down a bit, ter de down a bit, etd's emp ships up a little (and I added a t3 bs to the broadsword), mantis lost a bit of efficiency and cath cr a bit of e/r. I'm fairly okay with how the stats look now, I don't think appoco wants to announce them yet until he has a good look but I'd imagine there'd only be one more set of changes from the beta.pl ones if that.
you tweaked xan fi up, xan fr down...
Buddah is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Oct 2008, 09:50   #126
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

no; the phant, banshee and wraith and 1 less of E/M/C each per ship, the shad and spec 2 less; on the other hand the rev is up 1
so both fr and fi are very slightly improved, though relatively 2 less of each is a smaller change for the shad than the 1 less is for the fi.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Oct 2008, 12:06   #127
Buddah
Knight of Ni!
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo Norway
Posts: 298
Buddah is a jewel in the roughBuddah is a jewel in the roughBuddah is a jewel in the roughBuddah is a jewel in the rough
Re: r29 shipstats

spirit however same cost less e/r.
and shadow less e/r but less e/m/c aswell.
Buddah is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Oct 2008, 12:40   #128
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

the cost reduction is relevant fighting anyone, the loss of emp res only affects you against cats (etd have no emp aimed at fr or de) so its an overall improvement.
Cats also have to freeze all your fr/de with a cr fleet making a xan who goes primarily fi/co the likely target.
against cat co you have the virtue of being only 2nd target as they freeze their way through the inevitably huge amount of spec first, so actually i think xan are less vulnerable to cat than they normally are.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Oct 2008, 18:27   #129
Illuvatar
Mastermind
 
Illuvatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 430
Illuvatar is a jewel in the roughIlluvatar is a jewel in the roughIlluvatar is a jewel in the roughIlluvatar is a jewel in the rough
Re: r29 shipstats

when going through stats today I recognized that its almost impossible to stop the Ter BS Combo. The only useful Defship I see vs. Ter BS is EMP +1Killship. So we got Widow/Tara/Scorpion/Rogue here -> Tara/Scorpion/Rogue all part of attackfleets +Etd's widows might be needed to give Etd's a chance to actually roid Terran so that leaves another option out to stop Ter BS from capping. generally I think Ter BS E/R is overpowered.

and yeh I like Cathaar
__________________

Community Leader

Last edited by Illuvatar; 16 Oct 2008 at 18:33.
Illuvatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Oct 2008, 23:38   #130
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

there is almost guaranteed to be absolutely loads of specters around, xans must build them and they aint in attack fleets. As U include only emp ships and rogues in ur list of useful ships U write as though a defender must fire first to be effective, its more efficient to fire first certainly, but not a requirement by any means - otherwise ziks would never get to defend because no dc would sent them anywhere - its messier but still works.
in my experience as a dc i would say quite a lot of defence comes from the attack fleets, which are after all more useful cos they are larger than the forces of token defence ships ppl keep.
Its worth noting that all cat emp is in attack fleets, but that certainly dosent mean u never see a cat in def, as i was continually attacked by xan cr last round perhaps i saw more tullas in def than most but i could usually get them when i wanted them despite their being in attack fleets.

their e/r hardly seems exceptional, as its only very slightly better than the etd bs when relative cost is included.... though the lev's e/r is pretty high there wont be enormous amounts of them to soak up the emp, though ultimately it is important as they might sneak through when everything else is frozen.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?

Last edited by [B5]Londo; 17 Oct 2008 at 00:02.
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Oct 2008, 00:07   #131
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: r29 shipstats

Terr BS do look sexy, but that leaves you horribly vulnerable to anyone who goes FI/CO heavy.

I think the number of spectre should keep CR/BS to a sustainable level anyway. Especially since widow and tarantula will be built!
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Oct 2008, 00:39   #132
Munkee
Dictator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
Munkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to beholdMunkee is a splendid one to behold
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Any updated bcalcs around?
beta.thrud.co.uk worked all along, even tho it says r27
__________________
Telegram#planetarion https://t.me/joinchat/A5Y_KUOSd7DQQgYL0051pQ
Telegram: @munkee | https://telegram.me/munkee
p3nguins alliance public telegram channel https://t.me/p3nguins
Munkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Oct 2008, 09:20   #133
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: r29 shipstats

There was one day I tried it where it was not updated.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Oct 2008, 11:52   #134
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

I note there has been some downward tweaks in beta to the e/r of both terr de and terr bs, which makes them rather easier to freeze than their etd and zik counterparts, which is kinda odd.
I can understand it for bs given the cat will likely spread his cr/bs defence between scarabs and tullas leaving them a bit light on anti-bs but i dont see there was any problem with the de, the cat has 2 2nd and a 1st targetting ship on de, ie they have no de hole.
This leaves terr de very vulnerable to cat co (as the zik can build some fr type anti-fi cat co wont hit them easily) and the rev-banshee combo discussed earlier. As alliance defence is difficult - the terr de is unlikely to have a large amount of fi to assist in a fi/co type of defence the terr is likely to find it harder than the raw stats.

I wont claim to be unbiased as i was thinking of going terr de, i will go for cat now I think
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Oct 2008, 12:03   #135
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: r29 shipstats

I was about to say ter bs isn't easier to freeze than etd bs but I think someone else has been changing the stats!

And yeah terran de won't find it easy. That's the price you pay for having your entire fleet in one ship class.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Oct 2008, 12:20   #136
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: r29 shipstats

yes I was
I didn't realise emp res was so low already so I'm rejigging some of the changes. I'm only 1/4 of the way through the tweaks I came up with on the train this morning! EMP resistance is likely to be tweaked all around though
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Oct 2008, 14:24   #137
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

I concede JBG's point 100% terr de is always gonna be hard to freeze, but i think it makes it very difficult for a terr to have bot bs and de type attack fleets as some ppl like too.

I would also like to asc appocco why some of the names seem to be particularly designed to confuse?
the Harpy last round fired at de/fr now its fi/co, the phoenix is the other way round, the Pirate used to target Fr/de now its Bs/Cr, the Marauder the other way round.

Its a minor point, and i imagine ill get used to it, but I can see myself sending the type of ship that would have been useful last round somewhere and a resulting def crash
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Oct 2008, 17:03   #138
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
I concede JBG's point 100% terr de is always gonna be hard to freeze, but i think it makes it very difficult for a terr to have bot bs and de type attack fleets as some ppl like too.
With multitargetting, having 2 attack fleets isn't a particularly sensible way to go about things for most races anyway.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Oct 2008, 19:14   #139
stay_posi
optimist
 
stay_posi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 263
stay_posi is a splendid one to beholdstay_posi is a splendid one to beholdstay_posi is a splendid one to beholdstay_posi is a splendid one to beholdstay_posi is a splendid one to beholdstay_posi is a splendid one to beholdstay_posi is a splendid one to behold
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
but I can see myself sending the type of ship that would have been useful last round somewhere and a resulting def crash
lucky for all of you guys, Londo is DCing this round!
__________________
*scendancy

Quote:
Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
Your attempts to be e-cool have been noted and laughed off as terrible.
stay_posi is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Oct 2008, 20:18   #140
MrLobster
Commander in Briefs!
 
MrLobster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 783
MrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud ofMrLobster has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
With multitargetting, having 2 attack fleets isn't a particularly sensible way to go about things for most races anyway.
I had an ok time with 2 attack fleets. It was just a little harder to send out defence.
__________________
<Kila> WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH MY PRECIOUS FORUMS
<Zeyi> 24h forum closure
<Zeyi> all posts recalled

"he's got a proven track record when it comes to showy art composition" - Tommy

<Sigi> Light: can I ask u how many open internet-windows u always have?
<MrLobster|PM> i have 2, the pa page, and the website for naked light pictures
<Ave> both has bad gfx
MrLobster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Oct 2008, 22:49   #141
Memtok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 77
Memtok has a spectacular aura aboutMemtok has a spectacular aura aboutMemtok has a spectacular aura about
Re: r29 shipstats

If stats stay the same, I predict:

The major "threat ships" for this round are going to be DE and BS.

Any race which effectively deals with either of these 2 classes of incoming (or both) should be looked at heavily as a major player in an alliance.

There is a strong bias toward in gal eta for much of the def ships in this stat set. Good gal management will be a must.

Ter DE will start off with good attack chances, but will fizzle as the round progresses. Fortunately, they will transition to a pretty good set of ally def ships.

Ter BS will be very good, and will work to off-set a lot of Zik anti-DE holes in gal.

Cat CO will allow best roiding chances with a CO heavy build, transitioning to a small secondary CR fleet for mid-round and later.

Mantis is a ship of "diminishing returns". Investment of more than 10% of your total def ship budget will be a waste, as the REAL strength of the Mantis is the threat of it being present.

Cat will start strong, but because they are not as over-powered as in a "true" Cathaar round, any slacking by a Cat will lead to easy targetting.

Zik has a pretty potent base attack set up, which can be configured to hit any race with either pod type, save possibly Terran with DE.

Zik should be slightly more in favor of its CR fleet than its DE fleet; mainly because they can hunt CAT CR.

ETD is a "2nd best" race insofar as they do not seem to have any single "stand out" ship, but do most everything "2nd or 3rd best".

Because ETD is mainly emp centric, and because their ships are "2nd best", an ETD will be vulnerable throughout the round.

ETD Pillager is a joke ship, that lacks any real targets for its use. It will have to rely on crashers and people who do not check their incoming to run for caps. The thief is only slightly better off.

Xan is a conundrum. Their def potential, especially with Revenants and Wraiths, will be vital to an alliance, but their weakness in attack can make them a def sink race.

Xan will have to decide: build effect def ships and be forced to team even in bash attacks, or build attack power and become a def sink.

Of course all of this is BEFORE we find out how much Appoco had to drink while riding the train home...
__________________
You may call me Master
Memtok is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Oct 2008, 23:17   #142
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by stay_posi View Post
lucky for all of you guys, Londo is DCing this round!
I'll try to be careful
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Oct 2008, 01:47   #143
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
I concede JBG's point 100% terr de is always gonna be hard to freeze...
with 5 cloaked anti DE available (Xan and Etd) there will be plenty of opportunity to fake def against ter DE. Having to toss a coin at each landing weither the def is real or not will be a pain.
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Oct 2008, 07:49   #144
Zaejii
This Space for Rent
Speedy Thief Champion, Turbo Turtle Champion, Cop-For-This Champion
 
Zaejii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
Zaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
I concede JBG's point 100% terr de is always gonna be hard to freeze
terrans are always hard to stop - its a pain. all the sairs in the world still wouldn't stop a terran fleet from roiding you if they wanted to last round.
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
Zaejii is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Oct 2008, 09:55   #145
isildurx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
isildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond reputeisildurx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
with 5 cloaked anti DE available (Xan and Etd) there will be plenty of opportunity to fake def against ter DE. Having to toss a coin at each landing weither the def is real or not will be a pain.
Thats more or less how it is for all the FR\DE class roidfleets though.

"Mantis is a ship of "diminishing returns". Investment of more than 10% of your total def ship budget will be a waste, as the REAL strength of the Mantis is the threat of it being present".

Im not quite sure I agree to your statement there. Mantis is a pretty awesome defensive ship which not only will help you in deterring fi\co incs for much of the round(untill one starts giving off to much xp) but it also has a great use for collecting free salvage from ingal.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
isildurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Oct 2008, 11:27   #146
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: r29 shipstats

Salvage \o/
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Oct 2008, 12:02   #147
[B5]Londo
Paso Leaute
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of[B5]Londo has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
terrans are always hard to stop - its a pain. all the sairs in the world still wouldn't stop a terran fleet from roiding you if they wanted to last round.
as terran de last round I can say all the sairs in the world could and did stop me, 2 attacks in 3, i landed very little im afraid.

but my original point was about getting attacked by cat co and xan fi/rev's not attacking them.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
[B5]Londo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Oct 2008, 17:49   #148
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Thats more or less how it is for all the FR\DE class roidfleets though.

"Mantis is a ship of "diminishing returns". Investment of more than 10% of your total def ship budget will be a waste, as the REAL strength of the Mantis is the threat of it being present".

Im not quite sure I agree to your statement there. Mantis is a pretty awesome defensive ship which not only will help you in deterring fi\co incs for much of the round(untill one starts giving off to much xp) but it also has a great use for collecting free salvage from ingal.
IMO the most sensible number of mantis is either a) enough to deter any FI/CO fleet or b) enough to deter any FR fleet.

In the case of a) you need about enough to do 500-1,000 value damage per roid you have. Not a percentage of your investment or anything, but an absolute value. This immunises you vs 2 fleets and

b) is a bit more interesting, since you need to overcome spectre/widow. I'm not convinced that you can easily do that & you could end up sinking loads more of your fleet value this way.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Oct 2008, 18:08   #149
Onim
the inquisition incarnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NL, EHV
Posts: 63
Onim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to allOnim is a name known to all
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate View Post
IMO the most sensible number of mantis is either a) enough to deter any FI/CO fleet or b) enough to deter any FR fleet.

In the case of a) you need about enough to do 500-1,000 value damage per roid you have. Not a percentage of your investment or anything, but an absolute value. This immunises you vs 2 fleets and

b) is a bit more interesting, since you need to overcome spectre/widow. I'm not convinced that you can easily do that & you could end up sinking loads more of your fleet value this way.
In the changed set of stats, the Mantis targets CO-FI instead of Fi-Co-FR , making a) almost impossible, or you would want to cripple ur attackfleet by spending so much on mantis and b) n/a . The change primarily means cath co becomes less strong in favor of xan FI.

I think if u are realistic you know that no fi/co fleets will come your way if you kill rougly 20-50k value first 300 ticks, 100k value till tick 600 and 200k-and increasingly more till the end. This would mean having 5k-10k mantis early on (effectively killing 25-50k fi) and well, do the math

This is a very large amount of resources, and extra downside is u cant use it for ally, but its up to ur style of play i guess..
__________________
Think positively, be constructive, talk obsessively.

"It never hurts to Help!" [Eek the Cat]

Denying existence during r3-6 and back in denial since r22
Onim is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2008, 07:34   #150
Zaejii
This Space for Rent
Speedy Thief Champion, Turbo Turtle Champion, Cop-For-This Champion
 
Zaejii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
Zaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud of
Re: r29 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onim View Post
In the changed set of stats, the Mantis targets CO-FI instead of Fi-Co-FR... The change primarily means cath co becomes less strong in favor of xan FI.
my initial reaction when i first saw this in the stats (before i read this, but you bring it up etc) is that: isn't cat co already weak in the aspect that it is emp based? why make cathaar weaker by changing mantis to co/fi? does anyone have any input or am i just missing something in the grand scheme of things?
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
Zaejii is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 13:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018