Neutral or not?

[Scouse]

Hopefully in this thread I'll explain the advantages and disadvantage of being neutral or non-neutral for both big and small alliances.

Alliances ally each other in order for them to win, and HC want their members to do well and enjoy the round. Some alliances enjoy the round most when they win, others just enjoy the round regardless of how well their planets do, due to their community.

Big Alliances

Big alliances want to win. That's why they get the better members, who strive to win, and why they are, in fact, 'big'. 'Big' alliances is not referring to member numbers, but to overall alliance strength. For these alliances, the best way to achieve success is to ally another big alliance and to cooperate to remove any competition, leaving themselves and their allies as victors. The obvious benefits are getting the chance to win, being involved in PA at the very top level and testing yourself against other real skilled human players (a reason why PA is so addictive). The disadvantages are the chance of being wasted for the entire round and not enjoying it at all, the threat of constant attack and having to be more active, and the stress of a long hard round etc. 'Powerblocking' is such a big issue in PA now that most people are aware of these.

Big alliances who choose to remain neutral during a round can actually have a good round and still do well. However, this relies on no one side ever getting so on top of the game that their enemies are crushed, ie Stagnation is not reached. Alliances like Reduco and NoS last round were neutral and stayed out of the wars and didn't have to deal with very much incoming from those alliances who are at war with one another. Even WP and Elysium last round didn't have any real enemies and played the round without being in the spotlight, and so managed a few top planets. The obvious advantage here is that you can get on with your own thing, attack who you like, and not have constant threat of large scale attacks on your members. Any incoming that does come should be easily covered if you have a good active member core. The alliances at war will attack your members on occasion but not at such a scale that they would if you were at war with them. The obvious disadvantage is that neutral alliances never win the round, but they can do well and manage a few top planets. The members of these alliances are people who want to do rather well without being super active and up at 4am every morning to deal with incoming and to send defence to alliance mates.


Small Alliances

Small alliances aren't going to win. That's obvious. A lot of small alliances still have good communites though, were winning does not matter to their members. Small alliances can be separated into two, those that are small and want to do well and expand, and those that are small and are happy to remain small. For those alliances who are small and want to improve, hopefully to the point of being considered a 'big' alliance, the best thing for them to do, imo, is to get in a 'powerblock'. Small alliances in powerblocks get to test themseleves against better players and can be on the winning side, along with all the other stuff that being in a powerblock v powerblock war can bring. Because these alliances are only 'small' they won't be targetted as much as their allies, the so called 'big' alliances, so they have the chance to 'win' (be on the winning side) without having to worry about massive incoming each and every night for 3 months.

However, they may be on the winning side in this scenerio, but they will never win. But Rome was not built in a day. So to get in a powerblock, fight as hard as you can, improve bit by bit, and eventually you'll have yourself a decent alliances with a fair few good members and experienced command. The next step is to become a 'main' alliance in the next round, with your political and battle experience from the last round.

A good example of this type of alliance is ToT. In each round ToT have been a relatively small alliance in a powerblock, who have experienced both winning and losing and have earnt valuable experience whilst doing so. The next step for ToT would be to become powerful enough to be considered a real contender to win the round, if that was the direction that they wished to take.

Small alliances can also stay neutral and not have much effect on a round at all, without gaining much experience from being involved in a powerblock in a war situation. These alliances attack who they want, when they want, but can be easily attacked back with a small organised attack. Usually these alliances don't want to win or even care who does eventually win and shall just do their best to enjoy themselves.

So, in conclusion, big alliances who choose to stay neutral can have an effect on a round and can do well, without actually 'winning'. A lot of people may say these kinds of alliances do best, as they are by themselves, and are the 'real winners'. Small alliances who want to do well really need to step up to the next level and try to get themselves on a side in a war, and do their very best to be as good allies as possible.

By now, the image and aim of most alliances is known, and a person can decide who to join by that. Example: Someone wanting to win can get in a 'big' alliance or an alliance that aims to be 'big' before too long. A person who wants to just enjoy themselves and have fun on IRC can join an alliance that doesn't care, like hirr. Depending on what direction an alliance takes during a round they will lose members and they will gain members. The important thing being that alliances reprensent what their members want, and if you find yourself in the wrong alliance you should get yourself a new alliance and make it your home.

[hAl]

I'm not sure a small alliance can become big by going into a powerblock as you seem to suggest. You name ToT as example and I agree they did well in some round they participated in the winning block but it has not seemd to have the effect of attracting enough quality players to grow to a main line alliance that can win a round leading a powerblock.

Mostly the ways to get a new main top alliance it to gather quality players from former main alliances that are having internal troubles or that have disbanded the round earlier. Then you strengthen that alliance in a round by good recruitement of experienced players and you then can be ready to take on your the big guys.

Allieing with a powerblock seems a very remote move if you want to make it into the big times. You will most likley just stay flak round after round. Better try and get a group of unhappy players away from a big alliance and try to integrate them in your alliance or give them some kind of wing status.

hAl

[K-W]

Originally posted by hAl
I'm not sure a small alliance can become big by going into a powerblock as you seem to suggest. You name ToT as example and I agree they did well in some round they participated in the winning block but it has not seemd to have the effect of attracting enough quality players to grow to a main line alliance that can win a round leading a powerblock.

Mostly the ways to get a new main top alliance it to gather quality players from former main alliances that are having internal troubles or that have disbanded the round earlier. Then you strengthen that alliance in a round by good recruitement of experienced players and you then can be ready to take on your the big guys.

Allieing with a powerblock seems a very remote move if you want to make it into the big times. You will most likley just stay flak round after round. Better try and get a group of unhappy players away from a big alliance and try to integrate them in your alliance or give them some kind of wing status.

hAl

Surely having a large and skilled playerbase is absolutely vital to becoming one of the top few allainces in the game, but having allies is also vital to that. They are not mutaually exclusive.

Neutrality for the large allaince will very rarely pay off. The two best examples I can think of are Fury and Rah in round 8. It worked for both to an extent, they stayed out of the war for a while, but in the end they were both left at a major disadvantage when the conditions forced them to fight, since neither had setup any allies and were reluctant to make some. If things had gone on at the rate they were going, Fury would have slowly fallen and rah would have followed and neutrality would largely have been to blame. That said, it wasnt the only way the round could have ended.

Neutrality is a huge gamble and only in very specific circumstances is it worth taking. But a big allaine can use strategic neutrality at various points in the game, especially the start, to stay out of a war and if played right, this can be very good.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by hAl
Mostly the ways to get a new main top alliance it to gather quality players from former main alliances that are having internal troubles or that have disbanded the round earlier.

Yeah, that's the obvious way. But I'm talking about an already small alliance that already exists and wants to become big time. The way which you mentioned happens when new alliances are created and go straight into the big time without ever having to fight for it, under that name (ie Olympians, Eclipse, Adelante).

[hAl]

Originally posted by Scouse
Yeah, that's the obvious way. But I'm talking about an already small alliance that already exists and wants to become big time. The way which you mentioned happens when new alliances are created and go straight into the big time without ever having to fight for it, under that name (ie Olympians, Eclipse, Adelante).

Name one alliance that started after round 3 being small and insignificant in r4 or later and then made it to a top alliance by joining a powerblock ??

hAl

[ComradeRob]

Originally posted by hAl
Name one alliance that started after round 3 being small and insignificant in r4 or later and then made it to a top alliance by joining a powerblock ??

hAl

Wolfpack's rebirth in r6 is a possible candidate. Maybe Titans, but they were never really a 'small' alliance to begin with, though they do illustrate perfectly the desire for 'smaller' (relative to the top alliances) alliances to join powerblocks for their protection.

[Jester]

Originally posted by hAl
Name one alliance that started after round 3 being small and insignificant in r4 or later and then made it to a top alliance by joining a powerblock ??

hAl

Madcows?

Jester

[hook]

Originally posted by Jester
Madcows?

Jester

Madcows wasn't an alliance till last round though. So 'small and insignificant alliance in R4' doesn't quite fit in here. Otherwise: probably correct.

Originally posted by hAl
Name one alliance that started after round 3 being small and insignificant in r4 or later and then made it to a top alliance by joining a powerblock ??

hAl

Guild

[Perfection]

Originally posted by hAl
Name one alliance that started after round 3 being small and insignificant in r4 or later and then made it to a top alliance by joining a powerblock ??

hAl

Elysium (pre-VeX)

[fiddler123b]

Originally posted by Dreadnought!
Guild

I think you mean Ety, as Guild was just some sort of merger, which didnt work in the end. Gotta ask GreatOne about details

[Jester]

Originally posted by hook
Madcows wasn't an alliance till last round though. So 'small and insignificant alliance in R4' doesn't quite fit in here. Otherwise: probably correct.

Originally posted by hAl
Name one alliance that started after round 3 being small and insignificant in r4 or later and then made it to a top alliance by joining a powerblock ??

hAl

I think you'll find the emphasis educating.

Elysium don't qualify as they started in round 3. Same with most of the alliances in Guild.

Jester

[hook]

Originally posted by Jester
I think you'll find the emphasis educating.

Elysium don't qualify as they started in round 3. Same with most of the alliances in Guild.

Jester

Apologies.

Read the post in a hurry, not carefully enough I guess

I believe Elysium started R2 though (might be the end of it, but still, correct me if I'm wrong) but even if they did start in R2 you're right - they still don't qualify.

[fiddler123b]

Originally posted by Jester
I think you'll find the emphasis educating.

Elysium don't qualify as they started in round 3. Same with most of the alliances in Guild.

Jester

nitpicker!

[Greatone]

Well Guild was a success for awhile in round 6 before a power struggle happened which made ETY leave .the proof of that was friends and Foes who roided almost all top 10 galaxys we didnt win but we made a diffrence in uni big time round 6
and as hc i worked with fury on some attacks when we took down adelante for example we shared 50- 50 with a big alliance like fury,adelante was nr:1 at that time after that F&F took over
and guild continued with c37 witch was destroyed with help from friends and foes
so no more comments are needed

Former HC in ETY

Proud member of friends and Foes

[fiddler123b]

well GreatOne, first thing i like to notice: $^&$#^& work on your spelling!
about F&F i can only comment, not on Ety, but maybe that regular poster from 37:5(:11?) can comment on the nice morning-surprise we gave em. one of our most successfull raids, which was in coop with Guild.

[Salomo]

excelent post scouse, I disagree on your part on small alliances that want to become big though...

Originally posted by Scouse

For those alliances who are small and want to improve, hopefully to the point of being considered a 'big' alliance, the best thing for them to do, imo, is to get in a 'powerblock'. Small alliances in powerblocks get to test themseleves against better players and can be on the winning side, along with all the other stuff that being in a powerblock v powerblock war can bring. Because these alliances are only 'small' they won't be targetted as much as their allies, the so called 'big' alliances, so they have the chance to 'win' (be on the winning side) without having to worry about massive incoming each and every night for 3 months.

However, they may be on the winning side in this scenerio, but they will never win. But Rome was not built in a day. So to get in a powerblock, fight as hard as you can, improve bit by bit, and eventually you'll have yourself a decent alliances with a fair few good members and experienced command. The next step is to become a 'main' alliance in the next round, with your political and battle experience from the last round.

You're of course correct that joining a powerblock can give your alliance experience neccessary to become a big alliance, so in a way that may be a good first step. It doesn't really help becomming one of the main alliances though, as you also seem to realise by stating "the next step is to become a main alliance".

A small alliance that wants to get big needs experience, but in my opinion that experience should allready be imported by the HC. People who have never been involved in an alliance and have no clue about how leading an alliance works simply should not open their own new alliance and hope to get big.

That given one should focus on those alliances with an at least somewhat experienced staff and see how they can get big, as the others basically have no realistic chance anyway in a universe so full of allready experienced alliances and can just as well be regarded as playing only for fun, not seriously to be big.

So if joining a powerblock with big alliances wont help for that final step to becomeing big, and neutrality wont help much either, what will? Imo you need two things to get "big": Active/good members (or members who want to win as you put it) and influence, either through military force or through politics. Both of these obviously are directly related, as an important/influental alliance is going to attract more active/good players and the stronger your memberbase the more influence you can get.

To reach the goal of becomming big i would (once again) suggest creating your own block with simmilarly minded alliances and try to place it in the pre-round planning so that it can play the politics either way and that way can, instead of joining a bigger alliances side or remaining neutral, create it's own side. That can directly give more influence to the alliance if the political situation is right (e.g. if this block is needed by the bigger blocks to win), and can attract active/good players better by opening up a new niche on the member-market instead of competing with stronger alliances for the same people.

Of course that way is a lot harder than remaining neutral or just joining another block, but getting big and competing with the best simply isn't allways easy.

[Maddix]

Originally posted by Dreadnought!
Guild

Guild never 'made it big' by joining a power block. Supposedly they were FLTV R7....I don't recall them doing much except defend Maya tho.

[Axis_WLF]

What about LDK? I wanna say they might have been around end or around r3 but really noticed them in r4 but they werent a sole alliance they were a wing of Xanadu right? Pretty much the only group I can think of to fit in the category of small group who got kick ass after r3 would be LDK?

[K-W]

Originally posted by Axis_WLF
What about LDK? I wanna say they might have been around end or around r3 but really noticed them in r4 but they werent a sole alliance they were a wing of Xanadu right? Pretty much the only group I can think of to fit in the category of small group who got kick ass after r3 would be LDK?

You answered your own question. They were a battle group.

[Hicks]

Originally posted by hook
Apologies.

Read the post in a hurry, not carefully enough I guess

I believe Elysium started R2 though (might be the end of it, but still, correct me if I'm wrong) but even if they did start in R2 you're right - they still don't qualify.

Elysium did indeed start in R2 they were one of the alliances to form out of Concordium dissolving along with Sedition and LOST (?).

[BlueArmy]

Originally posted by hAl
Name one alliance that started after round 3 being small and insignificant in r4 or later and then made it to a top alliance by joining a powerblock ??

hAl

ViruS, without the Fury "support" they wouldnt have grown into a "top" alliance (i dont class virus as one of the elite alliances, but they are equal to wp in my eyes)

[Salomo]

Originally posted by BlueArmy
ViruS, without the Fury "support" they wouldnt have grown into a "top" alliance (i dont class virus as one of the elite alliances, but they are equal to wp in my eyes)

Virus didn't start after r3, they were around at least in r3 allready

[Salomo]

Originally posted by Hicks
Elysium did indeed start in R2 they were one of the alliances to form out of Concordium dissolving along with Sedition and LOST (?).

In response to the (?), you're correct iirc. At least definetly concerning sedidtion, and i think also about LOST.

[Hicks]

I wasn't quite sure about LOST ViruS as I recall go back to at least Round 3 but they are a good example of an alliance which did well by joining a powerblock.

[Torz]

LOST were some wank WaC wing who thought they were amazing but were infact ****. The best thing ever happened when they ****ed off and took themselves out of WaC (while still wearing the tag, great idea!)

[Axis_WLF]

Lost was part of the first massive naps BT had in r2. Aye Germania forgot to ask when did they become a official alliance <speaking of LDK>.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Axis_WLF
Lost was part of the first massive naps BT had in r2. Aye Germania forgot to ask when did they become a official alliance <speaking of LDK>.

Round 8 I think.

[Salomo]

Originally posted by Hicks
ViruS as I recall go back to at least Round 3 but they are a good example of an alliance which did well by joining a powerblock.

I tend to disagree on that... They joined up with fury r4 iirc, and the way Virus wasn't allowed into the attack planning room r5 while the rest of us all were in there doesn't really speak for a healthy relationship imo... not sure about the rounds following that, but from what i recall the first sign of Virus actually trying to join the big alliances league (instead of bendimng to the will of the dominant partner) was when they tried to go off with titans, fang and legion in r7, and even then they imo didn't really make it into the big league.... So that's at least 3 rounds Virus had to play the junior partner before trying the move to the big people's league.

It did of course also profit from fury, but imo not really by becomming one of the big players on the alliance field, which should be the goal. And at least in the earlier rounds of the fury-virus partnership that was accompanied by a lot of "disrespect" (regarding it as inferior, not being fully integrated into the blocks, etc.) for Virus from many sides iirc.

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Though actually, now that i think about it, what actually happened to virus whle legion and fury roided each others allies in r5? Was it given to legion or was it protected by fury?

[K-W]

Originally posted by Salomo
I tend to disagree on that... They joined up with fury r4 iirc, and the way Virus wasn't allowed into the attack planning room r5 while the rest of us all were in there doesn't really speak for a healthy relationship imo... not sure about the rounds following that, but from what i recall the first sign of Virus actually trying to join the big alliances league (instead of bendimng to the will of the dominant partner) was when they tried to go off with titans, fang and legion in r7, and even then they imo didn't really make it into the big league.... So that's at least 3 rounds Virus had to play the junior partner before trying the move to the big people's league.

It did of course also profit from fury, but imo not really by becomming one of the big players on the alliance field, which should be the goal. And at least in the earlier rounds of the fury-virus partnership that was accompanied by a lot of "disrespect" (regarding it as inferior, not being fully integrated into the blocks, etc.) for Virus from many sides iirc.

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Though actually, now that i think about it, what actually happened to virus whle legion and fury roided each others allies in r5? Was it given to legion or was it protected by fury?

I definately have to disagree. Virus benefited greatly by joining in a powerblock. Through good diplomacy they became a fixture of top level allaince politics.

[Iceaxe]

Originally posted by Greatone
adelante was nr:1 at that time after that F&F took over

Ahem, F&F was taken down before Adelante thank you very much.

And F&F never regained there #1 spot after they got hit (smashed)...

[Aaranaf]

Originally posted by Salomo
Though actually, now that i think about it, what actually happened to virus whle legion and fury roided each others allies in r5? Was it given to legion or was it protected by fury?

i dont know if ViruS was "given" to legion for roiding in round 5 by fury, but i do know Fury didnt protect us

and i think ViruS witheld Legion's onslaught quite well, at least definatly better then anyone expected us to do.

[furssie]

Originally posted by hAl
Name one alliance that started after round 3 being small and insignificant in r4 or later and then made it to a top alliance by joining a powerblock ??

hAl

L D K

[Scouse]

I could have wrote another 5 paragraphs on this topic but I didn't want a massive opening post that bored everyone and didn't leave any discussion open. (Cue joke from board troll)

Another way, as mentioned, is for small alliances to get with other alliances of their size, make their own powerblock and try to have an influence on the round. Although, lots of alliances have tried it and never got anywhere, so in practice I think getting in with an already known power, and learning from them would be the best way to get big.


New alliances being formed from old ones and being thrown straight into the top league, with the same people in command, just mixed up a bit, leaves the politics a bit stale. A good small alliance, or two, emerging each round into the realm of 'big' alliances would be good for PA.

[Fleet_Multiplex]

ViruS is probably a good example for the growing of lesser alliances when joining powerblock. As one can see from when we first went into partnership in round 4 to when we came out of it in round 7 we managed to adapt and change drastically beyond all recognition by the end of the round to become one of the very top level alliances. Yes we had to take some ****, we knew we had to in order to continue the process and improve. I dont know of many/any HC which have actually ever liked fury since round 5 but we knew we had to continue with them for the time-being until we were able to take them on. That opportunity came in round 7 firstly with consortium then by the end the new partnerships for round 8 with Titans and LDK etc etc. It was a long process but yes smaller alliances do and have allways gained by joining in powerblocks in. Look at FAnG, what would they have ever been if they hadnt joined FLTV? not much.

[furssie]

Originally posted by Fleet_Multiplex
I dont know of many/any HC which have actually ever liked fury since round 5 but we knew we had to continue with them for the time-being until we were able to take them on. That opportunity came in round 7 firstly with consortium then by the end the new partnerships for round 8 with Titans and LDK etc etc.

AARRGGHH!!

[WebAngel]

Nobody can be/stay neutral in planetarion.
You have to attack to grow up hence you have to have some targets.
Either those targets are true random targets. One can try to play "fair" and attack everybody whatever the alliances. This doesn't mean being neutral, it means being against everybody. This is a stable situation that one can keep it up till the end of round.
Or you can "pretend" to be neutral, but one day or another you will focus your attacks on someone or you will have an agreement with another alliance. At this point in the game you wont be that neutral since you wont attack your allies and you will attack a sub set of players. It is just a question of time before you have to take a position. For me being neutral means being a liar because you can't be neutral till the end of round.

Some would like to be "neutral" because it gives them the opportunity to looks friendly (hence to minimize the attack on them) and to keep on attacking their "neutral targets". Those players are cowards and have no honour. They are not neutral. They just have an ambiguous position. This category of player includes all the players from mixed galaxies. This lame attitude leads to stagnation and treachery.

Deep inside of each player there is always a side, nobody can be neutral at heart.

P.S.: Olympians won't be neutral. we will try to play "fair" and we can be proud of it.

[K-W]

Webangel weve already gone through the true meaning of the word neutral discussion. In PA it means having no affiliations and attacking freely.

Originally posted by WebAngel
Some would like to be "neutral" because it gives them the opportunity to looks friendly (hence to minimize the attack on them) and to keep on attacking their "neutral targets". Those players are cowards and have no honour. They are not neutral. They just have an ambiguous position. This category of player includes all the players from mixed galaxies. This lame attitude leads to stagnation and treachery.

Good lord, the words coward and honor have NO place in this game. This is a text base space war simulation. It has little to do with anyones character. It is this lame attitude that leads to stagnation. People like you polarize blocks. Also, this game could do with a little more treachery, but actual treachery, not domination treachery.

Im not sure what you are talking about neutrality is attacking freely and not being protected from anyone. There is no ambiguous position. THe person in a galaxy that is protected is not himself neutral, he has agreed to play along the rules of his galaxy, and thus has made affiliations. His allaince may be neutral, but he is not. The kind of person who is ambiguous is a fence sitter, not a neutral player.

[Salomo]

Originally posted by Fleet_Multiplex
ViruS is probably a good example for the growing of lesser alliances when joining powerblock. As one can see from when we first went into partnership in round 4 to when we came out of it in round 7 we managed to adapt and change drastically beyond all recognition by the end of the round to become one of the very top level alliances. Yes we had to take some ****, we knew we had to in order to continue the process and improve. I dont know of many/any HC which have actually ever liked fury since round 5 but we knew we had to continue with them for the time-being until we were able to take them on. That opportunity came in round 7 firstly with consortium then by the end the new partnerships for round 8 with Titans and LDK etc etc. It was a long process but yes smaller alliances do and have allways gained by joining in powerblocks in.

Waiting 4 rounds untill entering the big league is a pretty long wait though. Without remaining in the shaddow of fury imo this could have been achieved faster. (Or at least if I was in a small alliance aiming for the big league i would want to find a faster way)

Originally posted by Fleet_Multiplex
Look at FAnG, what would they have ever been if they hadnt joined FLTV? not much.

in r6 the the nG part of FAnG (that was before FA and nG joined together) could have also joined FoS Block instead, a block with largely "smaller" alliances, which could imo have made it easier for nG to create a positive image of strength. Not sure whether FAnG allready started in r6 though.

Imo FAnG didn't enter the major league though untill they fought Fury at the end of r7 (hope i remembr this correctly, wasn't that involved in things anymore then). That took them out of Fury's shaddow and gave them the chance to proove themselves. So in that regard they played the politics quite well by not remaining together with such a dominant ally as Fury naturally was, though ofc it could have been played even better had the coup to topple fury succeeded.

So judging from Fangs case, i admit, joining some allready exisiting block with strong alliances also has it's advantages, as long as it is clear from the start that the dominant alliances in that block are used as stepping stone and not as permanent dominant partner. As long as you have a dominant partner above you, imo you basically have no chance to join the bigger league.

[WebAngel]

Originally posted by K-W
Webangel weve already gone through the true meaning of the word neutral discussion. In PA it means having no affiliations and attacking freely.



Good lord, the words coward and honor have NO place in this game. This is a text base space war simulation. It has little to do with anyones character. It is this lame attitude that leads to stagnation. People like you polarize blocks. Also, this game could do with a little more treachery, but actual treachery, not domination treachery.

When you hide, simulate etc then it's not being brave sorry for telling you. It has its place everywhere in a game or in any other place.
Concerning the fact that I have created a block. Depending on the size/aim of this set of players, it is called gallaxies, battle groups, alliances, or alliance of alliances. Well, if block means a bunch of people thinking alike and willing to play together then yes I did create a block.
If it means a group of people willing to dominate at all cost then it's not the case.
Our galaxies wont be mixed, it is only a very limited number of players playing together and who wont have anychoice but to be very active to survive because they wont hide. Where can you see any stagnation in this activity? Please be serious when you post and do not post only to use some buz words....

Im not sure what you are talking about neutrality is attacking freely and not being protected from anyone. There is no ambiguous position. THe person in a galaxy that is protected is not himself neutral, he has agreed to play along the rules of his galaxy, and thus has made affiliations. His allaince may be neutral, but he is not. The kind of person who is ambiguous is a fence sitter, not a neutral player.

My point, exactly, nobody can be neutral. The fact is that pretending to be neutral is a prerequiste for being a fence sitter. Hence when one pretends to be neutral, it is a big lie and a large way opened for stagnation.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Salomo
Waiting 4 rounds untill entering the big league is a pretty long wait though. Without remaining in the shaddow of fury imo this could have been achieved faster. (Or at least if I was in a small alliance aiming for the big league i would want to find a faster way)

Imo FAnG didn't enter the major league though untill they fought Fury at the end of r7

You are confusing your value judgements with the nature of allainces with actual allaince success. Virus was far more influential in the games politics due to thier arrangements with Fury, and it allowed them to mix into top Fury galaxies and top galaxies of other allies in the blocks. It also made them much more prominant and a valid option for players who had aims of very high scores. They entered the big leagues before 4 rounds. Round 7 was just thier best performance.

Fang didnt fight Fury, they fought Legion and Virus, but they were the same allaince before and after that fight started, so your argument is a silly one. If they hadnt entered into a deal with Fury and the block, they would not have been able to build up the strenth they had to use in that battle.

You are confusing a test of power with having power.

[Scouse]

Let's not get into whose made a powerblock and who hasn't.

Originally posted by WebAngel
My point, exactly, nobody can be neutral. The fact is that pretending to be neutral is a prerequiste for being a fence sitter. Hence when one pretends to be neutral, it is a big lie and a large way opened for stagnation.

Neutrality doesn't cause stagnation. Being a fence sitter means being on 2 or more sides. Being neutral means being on no sides. So should stagnation occur neutral people are open to being roided mercilessly, while fence-sitters are not.



Also, with the way PA is atm it's relatively easy for smaller alliances to get involved with 'big' alliances and to earn the responsibilty and respect that they need, because these (so called) powerblocks are happy to take in more allies, of any size, to help them win.

[K-W]

Originally posted by WebAngel
When you hide, simulate etc then it's not being brave sorry for telling you. It has its place everywhere in a game or in any other place.

Look up the word simulate in a dictionary. This game would be very very boring if it was just one big pissing contest of who can be the bravest. No one plays it that way, including you. Everyone plays this as a war simulation where many tactics are valid. I agree with you that fence sitting is non-competitive, therefore bad for a competitive game, but im not going to be insane enough to try and lable someones personality based on it. Treachery is a different story, it adds to the game. Hiding for the sake of tactics, and hiding to avoid fighting are very different things and should be treated as such.

Originally posted by WebAngel

Concerning the fact that I have created a block. Depending on the size/aim of this set of players, it is called gallaxies, battle groups, alliances, or alliance of alliances. Well, if block means a bunch of people thinking alike and willing to play together then yes I did create a block.
If it means a group of people willing to dominate at all cost then it's not the case.

LMFAO, so blocks are a social club now, not an attempt to win. As far as your thinking alike thing, that is a stagnating way to think. Pretty much all allainces think alike and are willing to play together. Making it sound like there is some clique of like minded players indicates a certain cohesion to an alliance that is dangerous.

Originally posted by WebAngel

Our galaxies wont be mixed, it is only a very limited number of players playing together and who wont have anychoice but to be very active to survive because they wont hide. Where can you see any stagnation in this activity? Please be serious when you post and do not post only to use some buz words....

Webangel, Im not sure if you think the allaices that are involved in your block dont want to with the game you are stupid. And I know for a fact you like to have a high ranked galaxy and planet, so you are just spouting BS. You act like everyone who plays this GAME to win has some mental defect, and you are just playing for the honor and to socialize. No one is buying it. This is a war game, the point is to win, and its stupid to run around trying to pretend you arent and blame those who do. It causes polarization and stagnation, and if you dont understand that, then its likely your just going to cause it again. That your galaxies wont be mixed is admirable if you intend that your block will not be cohesive. I give you all kudos if your block is fluid during the round. But if you are going to stick together, villianize your opponants and do the same old block stuff, then the non mixed galaxies isnt important. And you spouting this honor, treachery, coward stuff doesnt leave me with a whole lot of faith that you understand why non mixed galaxies are good for the game and the type of alliance politics that is needed to avoid stagnation.

Originally posted by WebAngel

My point, exactly, nobody can be neutral. The fact is that pretending to be neutral is a prerequiste for being a fence sitter. Hence when one pretends to be neutral, it is a big lie and a large way opened for stagnation.

Yes someone can be neutral. You do realize that there are people in this game who arent in powerblock galaxies? And no, fence sitting isnt really a factor in stagnation.

[fiddler123b]

Originally posted by Iceaxe
Ahem, F&F was taken down before Adelante thank you very much.

And F&F never regained there #1 spot after they got hit (smashed)...

all too true. we got smashed, but the complete force of XeTa except for LDK heh. i think we wouldve been far worse of if ziukis and co roided us too (as they attempted in other raids before).
but we werent roided INTO THE GROUND mistar iceaxe!

about all that other blabberish:
I can tell you that being truly neutral isnt very nice, got roided into the ground the first few rounds of my play
being completely on one side is most rewarding imo, but the risks are very high that you lose.
being fencesitting is most comfortable, as you will have protection from 2 of (hopefully) 3 sides and can concentrate on just one side. but when they are dry, the game gets very boring, as neutrals tend to have little roids (see my truly neutral point).

how the game may develop, i wish 'the other side(s)' a good game, may the best win.

[Iceaxe]

Originally posted by fiddler123b
all too true. we got smashed, but the complete force of XeTa except for LDK heh. i think we wouldve been far worse of if ziukis and co roided us too (as they attempted in other raids before).
but we werent roided INTO THE GROUND mistar iceaxe!

Yeah yeah, neither of us finished t10 though.

[Hicks]

Originally posted by Aaranaf
i dont know if ViruS was "given" to legion for roiding in round 5 by fury, but i do know Fury didnt protect us

and i think ViruS witheld Legion's onslaught quite well, at least definatly better then anyone expected us to do.

My memory is slightly hazy about Round 5 and I wasn’t in a command position but as I recall Fury carried over a NAP with ViruS from Round 4, Fury put pressure on ViruS to work out a similar deal with but ViruS Executive failed to pull their fingers out and work one out either due to laziness or the assumption that WTF & V would eventually fight Ve. Fury had no agreements to defend you and ViruS had failed to get any agreements with Legion, you weren't given to Legion it was your own incompetence, which led to them hitting you.

Also you can try all you want to play the lone and valiant resistors to Legion aggression but that ignores a major factor, protecting relations with Legion at the cost of loyal friends asteroids had created divisions in Fury, especially amongst T&P galaxies (Which contained a fair few ViruS members) there was a large amount of illegal Fury defending of ViruS members, in addition there was also support given in cluster to ViruS galaxies where Fury controlled the cluster alliances. ViruS certainly received far more in the way of Fury aid than either WPO or Ni! got.

Or maybe I'm just going mad and imagining things ...

[QazokRouge5]

Originally posted by Maddix
Guild never 'made it big' by joining a power block. Supposedly they were FLTV R7....I don't recall them doing much except defend Maya tho.

Are you on crack?

Guild was HUGE by the middle of Round 6. The member count was around 150 - 200

Maya did get alot of defense... the little hitler.

But anyway, The only reason we were so large is because we were in FLTV and FoS.

There was no "supposedly" to it. We were in.

[fiddler123b]

Originally posted by Hicks

Also you can try all you want to play the lone and valiant resistors to Legion aggression but that ignores a major factor, protecting relations with Legion at the cost of loyal friends asteroids had created divisions in Fury, especially amongst T&P galaxies (Which contained a fair few ViruS members) there was a large amount of illegal Fury defending of ViruS members, in addition there was also support given in cluster to ViruS galaxies where Fury controlled the cluster alliances. ViruS certainly received far more in the way of Fury aid than either WPO or Ni! got.

Or maybe I'm just going mad and imagining things ...

same went got Legion-galaxies. I was in a nice and small ely-galaxy (1 member, no hostality ever to Fury ) but we had 2 healthy and nice top 100 Legion-galaxies in our cluster, who didnt hesitate to defend us all the way, against any threaths. but i heard that was because Sid made a rule that incluster defending was allowed, and was pissed about later. (doh)

[K-W]

Originally posted by fiddler123b
same went got Legion-galaxies. I was in a nice and small ely-galaxy (1 member, no hostality ever to Fury ) but we had 2 healthy and nice top 100 Legion-galaxies in our cluster, who didnt hesitate to defend us all the way, against any threaths. but i heard that was because Sid made a rule that incluster defending was allowed, and was pissed about later. (doh)

It was an odd rule.

[TNX]

Originally posted by QazokRouge5
Guild was HUGE by the middle of Round 6. The member count was around 150 - 200

Maya did get alot of defense... the little hitler.

But anyway, The only reason we were so large is because we were in FLTV and FoS.

There was no "supposedly" to it. We were in.

Guild was useless.