buddy pack exile

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Zeke

and nadar if all your 4 pb members whould have a car accident and die (worst caste ofc) then and you landed in a not that good/active gal anyway, but wanted to play the round then you would feel the same I guess

Very good example

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Nadar

You know that if your galaxy, including your BP, is totally inactive, that if you ask PA Team they will most likely help you exile right?

No I dont know that, but isnt tht exactly what you are arguing against? Isnt that what this thread is, a request that PA team help players who are stuck in bad situations due to the bp exile rule? Arent you arguing that these players dont deserve to be helped?

I know for sure in r13 (and maybe the rounds after aswell) when you only had 1 exile, PA Team would exile you until you ended in a reasonable galaxy suited for your planet. Example: A guy had 2mill score and was in a gal with 500k score planets.

If PA team has to actively intervene in individual cases to clean up a mess thier own system caused, doesnt that suggest the system is functioning poorly and should be reformed?

The galaxy-system will never be fair. Some people will always gain advantage by pure luck. That's how it is, that's what we've dealt with for 16 rounds (excluding fully private rounds).

And once again you switch over to arguing something nobody disagrees with.

Nobody is trying to make everything 100% equal, nobody is trying to put everyone in the #1 galaxy, I dont know where you are coming up with this stuff.

Meanwhile, the fact that perfection can not be reached is not an excuse not to reform things that can be reformed.

And on another note: You don't need a good galaxy, nor a good BP, to do good. You can be the only active person in the galaxy and still get a good position.

Yes its *possible* but so what? Why are you trying to find a justification for screwing over other players? Our goal shouldnt be to rationalize bad features of the game, it should be to fix them.

Just look at what Kretin did. He didn't need his galaxy at all. He could just aswell be in a 1-man galaxy and still do good.

No, I dont know what he did, and I dont care because it bears very little relevance to this discussion. I concede that a player can possibly enjoy his time in a dead gal, but I submit that this is an abnormal condition.

He got roided into small bits of dust every single day, still it didn't matter. If you don't know how to XP-wh0re, it's about time you learn about it. The XP-system is designed so that you can have a good game no matter what galaxy you're sitting in.

So people should be enjoying themselves because thats how it was designed and if they arent, its thier fault? PA is perfect, it must be the players who are flawed? Yah, great attitude for a game who wants to retain/attract players.

[Seed of Chaos]

Originally Posted by K-W

Yes its *possible* but so what? Why are you trying to find a justification for screwing over other players? Our goal shouldnt be to rationalize bad features of the game, it should be to fix them.

Point is it's possible to do well without having a good gal, so all these bp's with only 2 or 3 good players could stay and make the most of it and try and establish a good base for a gal instead of just taking exile as the solution, which is all too tempting to do. I'm sick of people saying "OMG my gal isn't even top 50" *presses the self exile button*

Our goal shouldn't really be making the game easier for lazy people to exile their way to the top either.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Seed of Chaos

Point is it's possible to do well without having a good gal, so all these bp's with only 2 or 3 good players could stay and make the most of it and try and establish a good base for a gal instead of just taking exile as the solution, which is all too tempting to do. I'm sick of people saying "OMG my gal isn't even top 50" *presses the self exile button*

So you think the fact that some players can enjoy themselves in these gals proves that all players should be enjoying themselves in these gals.

Quite a point indeed

[Seed of Chaos]

and you're saying there's nothing wrong with the attitude that "exile" should be the solution to everything?

nice one

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Seed of Chaos

and you're supporting people who just use "exile" as a solution to everything?

Nice one

People who use exile as a solution to everything?

What on earth are you talking about?

Some of us are interested in helping real players, you are interested in fighting hypotheticals.

Edit: I did not, by the way ever support people (if they exist) who use exile as a solution to everything, and if you could not dishonestly put words in my mouth in the future, id appreciate it.

[Seed of Chaos]

i'm speaking from experience that people like to just exile whenever things don't go their way.

I already pointed out in a previous post why I think this new system can hlep new players.

[Seed of Chaos]

Originally Posted by K-W

People who use exile as a solution to everything?

Edit: I did not, by the way ever support people (if they exist) who use exile as a solution to everything, and if you could not dishonestly put words in my mouth in the future, id appreciate it.

You're the one who started putting words in my mouth. I was just making a point people can do a lot more if they try a bit instead of relying over much on self exile.

PS previous post editted in an attempt to "get the wording" right.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Seed of Chaos

i'm speaking from experience that people like to just exile whenever things don't go their way.

I already pointed out in a previous post why I think this new system can hlep new players.

As if the kind of person who exiles at the first sign of trouble is ever going to sit around helping a galaxy.

You are condemning players all over the universe to be stuck in bad situations because you want to stick it to the small minority of players who refuse to ever put work into a galaxy with the niave hope that forcing them to stay in galaxies will make them into a different kind of player.

They shouldnt design the game around a knee jerk reaction to some exile happy players.

And why would one of thse players join a bp in the first place? Shouldnt randoms also be stuck in gals if this is our goal?

[Seed of Chaos]

I don't think there's as many "bad situations" as people make out. Things can quickly turn around for the better. A lot of bad situations are caused from people escaping from the situation straight away without attempting to solve it. How do you know the bad situation won't get better if you don't stay around to find out? I just think a rule limits people who try to get out of situations without even trying to make things better is a good idea.

Yes people can go random to avoid the rule, but if then bp's might give you better chance of success as you can pick who you go with, so there'll still be people who choose bp's but probably reduce a bit. Solution isn't perfect, obviously, but then, they hardly ever are. I just think it's an improvement.

[Seed of Chaos]

I've got nothing against randoms being stuck too tbh

But I guess then there's not really much advantage going random over BP.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by K-W

No I dont know that, but isnt tht exactly what you are arguing against? Isnt that what this thread is, a request that PA team help players who are stuck in bad situations due to the bp exile rule? Arent you arguing that these players dont deserve to be helped?



If PA team has to actively intervene in individual cases to clean up a mess thier own system caused, doesnt that suggest the system is functioning poorly and should be reformed?



And once again you switch over to arguing something nobody disagrees with.

Nobody is trying to make everything 100% equal, nobody is trying to put everyone in the #1 galaxy, I dont know where you are coming up with this stuff.

Meanwhile, the fact that perfection can not be reached is not an excuse not to reform things that can be reformed.



Yes its *possible* but so what? Why are you trying to find a justification for screwing over other players? Our goal shouldnt be to rationalize bad features of the game, it should be to fix them.



No, I dont know what he did, and I dont care because it bears very little relevance to this discussion. I concede that a player can possibly enjoy his time in a dead gal, but I submit that this is an abnormal condition.



So people should be enjoying themselves because thats how it was designed and if they arent, its thier fault? PA is perfect, it must be the players who are flawed? Yah, great attitude for a game who wants to retain/attract players.

You really need to think before you write. How can you say "Yes it's possible but so what"? SO WHAT? Again, think before you write. Every single player can perform no matter what galaxy they're in. You cant just say "so what" to it as if it doesn't matters. It does.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Seed of Chaos

I don't think there's as many "bad situations" as people make out.

Im sure that is a great comfort to the people in those situations.

Things can quickly turn around for the better.

People CAN have a good time in a bad galaxy.
A bad galaxy CAN turn around for the better.

Alot of things CAN happen, but if our concern is making this game fun for the most number of people we dont really have to be concerned with remote potentialities.

A lot of bad situations are caused from people escaping from the situation straight away without attempting to solve it. How do you know the bad situation won't get better if you don't stay around to find out?

I dont know a bad situation cant get better, but on the same token YOU dont know that it can get better. Why should people be forced to stay in galaxies because it MIGHT work out?

I just think a rule limits people who try to get out of situations without even trying to make things better is a good idea.

Well, it only limits them if they are in buddypacks. Which one would assume they wouldnt be in, because they like to get out of situations. A rule keeping randoms from exiling would probably serve better to pin down people who like to exile.

In fact this rule specifically targets those people who did try and committ to a galaxy, who did try and put together some cooperation.




Yes, we should condemn all people stuck in galaxies because it is much more important that we stick it anyone who might be trying to find an easy way out than that we have a game thats fun for people to play.

Yes people can go random to avoid the rule, but if then bp's might give you better chance of success as you can pick who you go with, so there'll still be people who choose bp's but probably reduce a bit. Solution isn't perfect, obviously, but then, they hardly ever are. I just think it's an improvement.[/quote]

[Nadar]

We could just drop the buddypack-system and go back to fully random rounds. I wouldn't mind that. But we'd still see people whining about their galaxies being shit and how unfair the system is.

[Seed of Chaos]

you can't keep everybody happy. Ofc it's tough luck for people who are stuck in the situation, but you can't design the game around minorities. Wouldn't you rather have most gals being playable rather than half being good (and full) and the other half dead but with free slots? You talk about making the game fun for people, but being in a gal where everyone else just exiled out because it wasn't "good enough" isn't much fun either is it. Aren't you condemning those who want to stay and make an effort?

[MegaNova]

Originally Posted by Nadar

And on another note: You don't need a good galaxy, nor a good BP, to do good. You can be the only active person in the galaxy and still get a good position. Just look at what Kretin did. He didn't need his galaxy at all. He could just aswell be in a 1-man galaxy and still do good. He got roided into small bits of dust every single day, still it didn't matter. If you don't know how to XP-wh0re, it's about time you learn about it. The XP-system is designed so that you can have a good game no matter what galaxy you're sitting in.

Originally Posted by Nadar

You really need to think before you write. How can you say "Yes it's possible but so what"? SO WHAT? Again, think before you write. Every single player can perform no matter what galaxy they're in. You cant just say "so what" to it as if it doesn't matters. It does.

We dont care about how good a player can do on his own. This discussion is about exiling BP ppl who have gone inactive or who you have gotten into a fight with becouse of some f-cked up reason.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Nadar

You really need to think before you write.

Ooo a flame instead of an argument. You must be very confident in your point.

How can you say "Yes it's possible but so what"? SO WHAT?

I can say it because its true. The fact that something is possible proves very little, lots of things are possible. That it is possible for some players to enjoy themselves in a bad galaxy does not prove that it is reasonable to expect all players to enjoy themselves in a bad galaxy.

I can say it, because I actually did think it through, something you clearly did not do.

Again, think before you write.

Wow, repeating the same childish flame again. You are so very persuasive.

Every single player can perform no matter what galaxy they're in.

This statement proves you are completely out of touch with a large portion of the PA community, not to mention reality.

So basically you take it as a matter of faith that PA is designed optimally? So anyone who isnt having fun must be playing it wrong?

You cant just say "so what" to it as if it doesn't matters. It does.

No it doesnt. It matters to you because you apparently think that any player who isnt Kretin or like Kretin doesnt deserve to have fun.

The fact that some players can enjoy themselves is of no importance at all to those players who arent enjoying themselves.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by MegaNova

We dont care about how good a player can do on his own. This discussion is about exiling BP ppl who have gone inactive or who you have gotten into a fight with becouse of some f-cked up reason.

I understand that.

What about: Give all BP's an option of doing 1 exile of their BP-members. Then they can exile the guy in the BP they think is a total jerk. Also: If a BP-member have been inactive for, say 5-6-7 days, they can exile him aswell. To exile a BP-member every BP-member except the one being exiled has to vote yes. Does that sound like an idea?

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by K-W

Ooo a flame instead of an argument. You must be very confident in your point.



I can say it because its true. The fact that something is possible proves very little, lots of things are possible. That it is possible for some players to enjoy themselves in a bad galaxy does not prove that it is reasonable to expect all players to enjoy themselves in a bad galaxy.

I can say it, because I actually did think it through, something you clearly did not do.



Wow, repeating the same childish flame again. You are so very persuasive.



This statement proves you are completely out of touch with a large portion of the PA community, not to mention reality.

So basically you take it as a matter of faith that PA is designed optimally? So anyone who isnt having fun must be playing it wrong?



No it doesnt. It matters to you because you apparently think that any player who isnt Kretin or like Kretin doesnt deserve to have fun.

The fact that some players can enjoy themselves is of no importance at all to those players who arent enjoying themselves.

My posts tends to sink to a lower level of quality when replying to shit posts and I'm sorry for that.

[Seed of Chaos]

Originally Posted by Nadar

I understand that.

What about: Give all BP's an option of doing 1 exile of their BP-members. Then they can exile the guy in the BP they think is a total jerk. Also: If a BP-member have been inactive for, say 5-6-7 days, they can exile him aswell. To exile a BP-member every BP-member except the one being exiled has to vote yes. Does that sound like an idea?

that sounds like a good idea tbh. Might need to think it through a bit more to discuss possible problems but it's a good start to a plan

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Seed of Chaos

you can't keep everybody happy.

Of course not.

Nobody suggested we keep everyone happy.
Nobody suggeseted we make everyone equal.
Nobody suggested everyone should win.
Nobody suggested everyone should be in a top galaxy.

Are there any other strawmen you and Nadar would like to employ in this discussion?

Ofc it's tough luck for people who are stuck in the situation, but you can't design the game around minorities.

But that is exactly what you want to do. You want to design the game around the minority of players who are exile happy.

Wouldn't you rather have most gals being playable rather than half being good (and full) and the other half dead but with free slots?

The best way to get more active galaxies in PA is to get more active players. Forcing active players to waste away in bad galaxies is a good way to get them to leave the game which only decreases the number of active players and thus active galaxies. You are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You talk about making the game fun for people, but being in a gal where everyone else just exiled out because it wasn't "good enough" isn't much fun either is it. Aren't you condemning those who want to stay and make an effort?

Of course not. Those people who CHOOSE to stay in a bad galaxy are not condemned, they have a choice. If they want to stay in the bad galaxy, they can, nobody is stopping them. It is you who wants to take choices away from people, not I.

And I would tell that person that they are making a mistake. If they want to work hard and build a galaxy they should leave the inactive gal and go to a mid level gal that could use active members willing to work hard.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Nadar

I lost an argument so I am resorting to flame posts

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by K-W

I've lost no argument. I just can't be arsed replying to the same arguments over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. As I told you: My posts tends to sink to a lower level of quality when replying to shit posts and I'm sorry for that.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Nadar

I've lost no argument..

When someone in a discussion ceases making points, refuses to respond to arguments and instead just claims thier opponant is stupid/incompetent, its generally safe to assume that person has lost the argument, either that or its safe to assume they are 11 years old.

I just can't be arsed replying to the same arguments over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

If you cant be arsed to reply to my arguments stop posting. This is a "Discussion Forum" not a "Pretend I am Right and Flame People Forum".

As I told you: My posts tends to sink to a lower level of quality when replying to shit posts and I'm sorry for that

Im sorry that you are not only incapable of having a civil discussion but you are also incapable of coming up with new flames.

But I guess that since this flame also rationalizes your poor posts, it must be your favorite.

[Seed of Chaos]

Of course not.
Nobody suggested we keep everyone happy.
Nobody suggeseted we make everyone equal.
Nobody suggested everyone should win.
Nobody suggested everyone should be in a top galaxy.

exactly. I'm just saying whatever choices you make there'll always be condemning someone. I thought you wanted it to be more fun for newbies. Polarising the qualities in galaxies isn't going to be better for newbies.

The exile happy people leaves behind a chain reaction which results in dead galaxies spread across the universe. How is that fun? You can exile around for ages without getting out. Active people aren't exactly gonna waste away in bad gals if almost every gal will have a certain degree of quality within it.

You seem to think there's hardly anyone overusing the exile feature but there are. I see these people exiling in and out of gals all the time. They're basically condemning people into hopeless situations and forcing THEM into exiling even though they may not want to initially. Your idea is to make it more easier for people to gain without making much effort at the expense of others, but imo it's better to have a more level playing field.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by K-W

When someone in a discussion ceases making points, refuses to respond to arguments and instead just claims thier opponant is stupid/incompetent, its generally safe to assume that person has lost the argument, either that or its safe to assume they are 11 years old.

If you cant be arsed to reply to my arguments stop posting. This is a "Discussion Forum" not a "Pretend I am Right and Flame People Forum".

Im sorry that you are not only incapable of having a civil discussion but you are also incapable of coming up with new flames.

There IS no more points to make. I've given the same points over and over again to the SAME posts that's been posted over and over again. The discussion could continue by us replying the same stuff to eachother into oblivion.

It wasn't meant as a flame, not at all. I told you to think before you write, hardly a flame is it? The think again part was mostly for when you said "Yes its *possible* but so what? ". You wiped away what I said about how the game is played, how people CAN play the game etc in order to have a nice round by just saying "so what". Calling me childish on the other hand... that's a flame.

But I guess you're a "better-knower", so what's the use in discussing this with you when all you do is reposting what's been said several times already?

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Seed of Chaos

exactly. I'm just saying whatever choices you make there'll always be condemning someone.

That simply isnt true. If you give people the option of exiling, you arent condeming them to anything.

I thought you wanted it to be more fun for newbies. Polarising the qualities in galaxies isn't going to be better for newbies.

The galaxies are already polarized... so im not sue what your point is. There is no way to avoid polarized galaxies. And I really dont see why newbies cant exile themselves into more active galaxies like everyone else.

The exile happy people leaves behind a chain reaction which results in dead galaxies spread across the universe.

That just isnt true. There are dead galaxies because there are lots of inactive or semi-active planets. As long as there are inactive and semi-active planets there will be dead galaxies. The issue here isnt whether dead galaxies get created, its whether we force some people to stay in them.

How is that fun? You can exile around for ages without getting out.

Exiling for ages is more fun than being stuck in a dead galaxy.

Active people aren't exactly gonna waste away in bad gals if almost every gal will have a certain degree of quality within it.

Yes, hypothetically, if we could make sure every gal had a certain degree of quality, people wouldnt waste away. And if ifs and buts were candy and nuts it would be christmas all year.

But we cant make sure every gal has a certain degree of quality, so we cant act as if they do.

You seem to think there's hardly anyone overusing the exile feature but there are.

Oversuse is a subjective term. I dont share your ire for people who exile and I think the escalating exile costs do a very good job of limiting exiles, and if we need to limit them more raising the cost would accomplish that just fine without having to monkey around with buddypacks and exiling.

I see these people exiling in and out of gals all the time. Your idea is to make it more easier for people to gain without making much effort at the expense of others, but imo it's better to have a more level playing field.

Forcing bp's to stay in galaxies doesnt create a more level playingfield, it creates a playingfield where the lucky and most skilled get good galaxies while the unlucky people and the ones who made bad bp decisions dont have a chance in hell of having a good round. How is that level?

My idea is to make it easier for active players to find other active players to work with so that everyone willing to committ time and energy in the game has a chance to play with likeminded people.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Nadar

There IS no more points to make. I've given the same points over and over again to the SAME posts that's been posted over and over again. The discussion could continue by us replying the same stuff to eachother into oblivion.

I still have points to make, if you dont, stop posting. And yes, you have given the same flawed points over and over again. And then when I point out the flaws, you refuse to respond to my arguments choosing instead to flame me.

It wasn't meant as a flame, not at all.

So you didnt mean to flame me when you suggested that I wasnt thinking? Right.

I told you to think before you write, hardly a flame is it? The think again part was mostly for when you said "Yes its *possible* but so what? ".

Of course that is a flame. Are you kidding me? Accusing me of not thinking isnt a flame to you?

And I know when you said it, it doesnt make it any less of a flame, or give it any more credence.

You wiped away what I said about how the game is played, how people CAN play the game etc in order to have a nice round by just saying "so what".

Indeed. I explained that just because some players can have fun in a galaxy does not prove that all players should have fun in a galaxy. Not every player is Kretin. So the fact that Kretin had fun does not prove that everyone can have fun. This is all I said, and you chose to flame me rather than respond.

Calling me childish on the other hand... that's a flame.

Of course it is, a flame you deserve for abandoing the discussion and employing ad hominem attacks.

But I guess you're a "better-knower", so what's the use in discussing this with you when all you do is reposting what's been said several times already?

If you would respond to my points rather than childishly flaming me, I would be more than happy to see this discussion progress, but since it is you, not I who decided to stop discussion and start insulting, I really dont see how you can complain that the discussion isnt progressing.

[Seed of Chaos]

well, it's kind of reached the point where it's basically coming down to different opinions. You think it won't help depolarize the gals. I think it would. For example how many bp's were Ghostbusters, the winning gal from r14 made out of? I think I counted people from at least 3 bp's in there (not 100% sure about this). But if the BP's were fixed this convergence of 1337ness of private bp's wouldn't happen.

Exiling for ages is more fun than being stuck in a dead galaxy.

You're assuming it is going to be a dead galaxy. But it's dead because people leave it when it's semi-active.

Yes, hypothetically, if we could make sure every gal had a certain degree of quality, people wouldnt waste away. And if ifs and buts were candy and nuts it would be christmas all year.

But we cant make sure every gal has a certain degree of quality, so we cant act as if they do.

If you never go on ifs and buts you'll never get anywhere either. I know we can't make sure every gal has a certain degree of quality, but i'm pretty sure you can end up with a lot more habitable galaxies. Just because something isn't achieveable doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make things better and CLOSER to the "perfect target".

My idea is to make it easier for active players to find other active players to work with so that everyone willing to committ time and energy in the game has a chance to play with likeminded people.

Mine too. I believe spreading the quality around will help achieve that.

But like I said, this is getting to the "you think it won't but I think it will work" argument situation so getting nowhere really.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Seed of Chaos

well, it's kind of reached the point where it's basically coming down to different opinions. You think it won't help depolarize the gals. I think it would. For example how many bp's were Ghostbusters, the winning gal from r14 made out of? I think I counted people from at least 3 bp's in there (not 100% sure about this). But if the BP's were fixed this convergence of 1337ness of private bp's wouldn't happen.

That doesnt make any sense. As long as randoms can still exile, the top gal will always be full of leet exile players, they will just all be randoms, rather than some coming from buddypacks. The only way to stop this is to stop exiling all together, in which case it all comes down to luck of placement. Regardless, just forcing bp's not to exile does nothing to hurt people who made bad bp decisions, it doesnt stop exiling since randoms can still exile.

You're assuming it is going to be a dead galaxy. But it's dead because people leave it when it's semi-active.

Im assuming that a galaxy that causes people to flee doesnt have a promising future, yes.

If you never go on ifs and buts you'll never get anywhere either. I know we can't make sure every gal has a certain degree of quality, but i'm pretty sure you can end up with a lot more habitable galaxies. Just because something isn't achieveable doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make things better and CLOSER to the "perfect target".

We can increase the quality of galaxies by increasing the number of active players in the game. This is really the only genuine way to do it.

Mine too.

How so?

You cant both want players of like value together and want players of like value dispersed in the universe. They are mutually exclusive.

I believe spreading the quality around will help achieve that.

But spreading quality around does the exact opposite. Taking active players and throwing them in the middle of inactive players turns the active player into an inactive, not the inactives into actives. Sitting in a gal with an active player is not going to make someone login to a game they arent that into, nor is it going to make someone who doesnt use irc use irc. In a vain attempt to turn inactive players into active players, you are creating a situation where actual active players, who are interested in playing PA get stranded in places that give them little chance to have fun in the round.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by K-W

I still have points to make, if you dont, stop posting. And yes, you have given the same flawed points over and over again. And then when I point out the flaws, you refuse to respond to my arguments choosing instead to flame me.

Are you kidding me? "the same flawed points over and over again"? I've posted the same NON-flawed points over and over again because people post the same points over and over again. None of the points mentioned is flawed, not even your points, but please don't reply with the same points over and over again. When you don't, I might pick up a discussion with you again.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Nadar

Are you kidding me? "the same flawed points over and over again"? I've posted the same NON-flawed points over and over again

Exactly. You are just assuming you are right. Thus if I disagree, I must not be thinking. So instead of replying to my critique of your post, you just flame me for not thinking.

You posted your argument, I replied, you responded by flaming me. Since you refuse to explain why my critique was wrong, the discussion ceases to prgress.

because people post the same points over and over again. None of the points mentioned is flawed, not even your points, but please don't reply with the same points over and over again. When you don't, I might pick up a discussion with you again.

I repeat myself because you refuse to reply to my arguments, choosing instead to flame me. I have made the same point several times now, a perfectly rational point that disproves your point, and you STILL HAVE NOT RESPONDED.

I thought perhaps you didnt understand me, so I repeated the point, but you have made it clear you would rather attack me than defend your arguments.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by K-W

Exactly. You are just assuming you are right. Thus if I disagree, I must not be thinking. So instead of replying to my critique of your post, you just flame me for not thinking.

You posted your argument, I replied, you responded by flaming me. Since you refuse to explain why my critique was wrong, the discussion ceases to prgress.



I repeat myself because you refuse to reply to my arguments, choosing instead to flame me. I have made the same point several times now, a perfectly rational point that disproves your point, and you STILL HAVE NOT RESPONDED.

I thought perhaps you didnt understand me, so I repeated the point, but it is clear now you are simply choosing not to listen to my points because you are satisifed assuming you are right.

I reply to your argument, you reply to my argument with the same point as before, I reply to your argument with the same point as before... see where this goes? I don't like repeating myself because people don't bring in anything new. I already explained why you couldn't have been thinking, but I assume you just overlooked that aswell as the other replies.

I will listen to your points, but I refuse to reply to the same points over and over again. And how can anyone be right? This is no math, it's an exchange of opinions. There's no = in such a discussion. If you read one of my earlier replies to MegaNova and you see me reply with something I think can be a solution to it all, but I guess you overlooked that one aswell.

[Seed of Chaos]

That doesnt make any sense. As long as randoms can still exile, the top gal will always be full of leet exile players, they will just all be randoms, rather than some coming from buddypacks. The only way to stop this is to stop exiling all together, in which case it all comes down to luck of placement. Regardless, just forcing bp's not to exile does nothing to hurt people who made bad bp decisions, it doesnt stop exiling since randoms can still exile.

yea IF they go random. But most of them seem to preferr BP as it gives them a chance play play with people they know. BP's will have its pros but also cons. 1337 players separated from the start and not having any chance of thrown together should average out the 1337ness a bit

Im assuming that a galaxy that causes people to flee doesnt have a promising future, yes.

And I'm assuming they're judging too hastily. So it's a deadend here.

But spreading quality around does the exact opposite. Taking active players and throwing them in the middle of inactive players turns the active player into an inactive, not the inactives into actives. Sitting in a gal with an active player is not going to make someone login to a game they arent that into, nor is it going to make someone who doesnt use irc use irc. In a vain attempt to turn inactive players into active players, you are creating a situation where actual active players, who are interested in playing PA get stranded in places that give them little chance to have fun in the round.

If the active people are still in the gal, it can improve by getting better players into the gal. If they all exile they can't, and the later actives who turns up also immediately leaves cos the actives have already left. Active players can still choose other active players as BP mates and that increases level of activity. I think it's not that there's no chance, it's more to do with people not giving it a chance.... and so we move round a circle again heh.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Nadar

I reply to your argument, you reply to my argument with the same point as before, I reply to your argument with the same point as before... see where this goes?

But this isnt what happened.

You made your argument about Kretin etc. That players can have fun without galaxies.
I debunked that argument.
You flamed me for not thinking.

You never replied to my argument. You have yet to address my point, that what is good for one player is not neccessarily good for all players. That just because some players can make due in bad galaxies does not mean it is reasonable to expect all players to do so. Everytime I say it, you quote some other portion of my post or accuse me of not thinking.

You are claiming that this discussion isnt progressing, which is true, but it is only true because you decided to accuse me of not thinking instead of replying to my point.

I don't like repeating myself because people don't bring in anything new. I already explained why you couldn't have been thinking, but I assume you just overlooked that aswell as the other replies.

You have explained nothing of the sort. You have been long on accusations and flames and short on arguments. And even now, you cant post without taking shots at me, without accusing me of having nothing to say.

I will listen to your points, but I refuse to reply to the same points over and over again.

Had you chosen to reply substantively, instead of flaming me, I wouldnt have had to repeat myself.

And how can anyone be right? This is no math, it's an exchange of opinions. There's no = in such a discussion.

Facts and logic exist oustide of mathmatics.

If you read one of my earlier replies to MegaNova and you see me reply with something I think can be a solution to it all, but I guess you overlooked that one aswell.

I read your idea, I didnt choose to respond.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Seed of Chaos

yea IF they go random. But most of them seem to preferr BP as it gives them a chance play play with people they know. BP's will have its pros but also cons. 1337 players separated from the start and not having any chance of thrown together should average out the 1337ness a bit

Wait a minute. I thought we were talking about the kinds of players who exile to get to top galaxies. Not the kinds of people who prefer to play with people they know.

It seems like this rule targets the wrong people entirely. The people who are stuck in bad gals are not BP's of elite players, they are failed bp's. Having 5 elite players automatically makes a gal good. I dont think it benefits the game to keep these people in bad galaxies whilest the randoms in those galaxies are free to escape.

And I'm assuming they're judging too hastily. So it's a deadend here.

If exiling is too easy, why not just make it more expensive rather than this bp exile change that only effects some of the players?

If the active people are still in the gal, it can improve by getting better players into the gal. If they all exile they can't, and the later actives who turns up also immediately leaves cos the actives have already left. Active players can still choose other active players as BP mates and that increases level of activity. I think it's not that there's no chance, it's more to do with people not giving it a chance.... and so we move round a circle again heh.

If it is a gal with an active core capable of exiling new players through, then what would be the benefit of exiling out of the galaxy? I dont see players with active bp's complaining, I see people with failed bp's and inactive bp's complaining.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by K-W

You have explained nothing of the sort. You have been long on accusations and flames and short on arguments. And even now, you cant post without taking shots at me, without accusing me of having nothing to say. You have nothing but petty personal attacks.

Oh come the hell on. It's you who blew the flame-stuff out of proportions. I very well explained to you why you weren't thinking. I'll say it again: Read my posts and stop telling me I'm only replying over and over again with the same points to your posts, I reply with the same points because YOU are replying the same points. Come up with something new now and I WILL reply. Until then I'll go back to my humble table of studies.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Nadar

Oh come the hell on. It's you who blew the flame-stuff out of proportions. I very well explained to you why you weren't thinking. I'll say it again: Read my posts and stop telling me I'm only replying over and over again with the same points to your posts, I reply with the same points because YOU are replying the same points. Come up with something new now and I WILL reply. Until then I'll go back to my humble table of studies.

Telling me I am not thinking is not an argument no matter how many times you repeat it or how many different ways you phrase it. It is a flame, an ad hominem attack, it is childish and silly and shows that you are incapable of defending your points.

Edit: I still dont see why I need to come up with something new when I already debunked your argument and all youve done is flame me.

[Seed of Chaos]

Wait a minute. I thought we were talking about the kinds of players who exile to get to top galaxies. Not the kinds of people who prefer to play with people they know.

It seems like this rule targets the wrong people entirely. The people who are stuck in bad gals are not BP's of elite players, they are failed bp's. Having 5 elite players automatically makes a gal good. I dont think it benefits the game to keep these people in bad galaxies whilest the randoms in those galaxies are free to escape.

Yea but a lot of these people exiles when the gal isn't 1337 enough for them. If the BP doesn't work out as well as they planned, they simply exile out. The people in "bad" gals in the beginning might be because the BP was only okay but the rest of the gal is rubbish. Not exactly "failed bp's".

If exiling is too easy, why not just make it more expensive rather than this bp exile change that only effects some of the players?

yea that could work as well. Didn't they try that already? I seem to remember one round with really expensive exiling. I think I remember people getting stuck in graveyard galaxies and not having nearly enough fund to get out. But anyway I think that does make going random a disadvantage. Why go random if you can take a shot at trying to form a 1337 bp and can just jump out if things didn't go as planned?

If it is a gal with an active core capable of exiling new players through, then what would be the benefit of exiling out of the galaxy? I dont see players with active bp's complaining, I see people with failed bp's and inactive bp's complaining.

I've been in a gal with an active core in the galaxy but they still exiled within a day of coming out of protection cos they want to be in a higher scoring gal. People see it as a possible short cut to success when it's supposed to be a tool for digging yourself out of tight situations.

And ofc active people aren't gonna complain if things are going their way. I also recall lots of occasions when people complain about exiling around in dead galaxies.

[Heartless]

No self-exile for buddy-packs with 4 or 5 members, one-time only self-exile for members of smaller buddypacks.

[Travler]

How about If you want to exile you need to find a replacement first. No resource cost to the incomming planet but the player that wants to exile pays the normal rate. The catch is you cannot leave until someone else can fill your slot.

I think the other members of a BP could find a replacement for you if that was the case. May also have an option if you are the only active member of a BP to exile at a higher resource cost than normal.

[Heartless]

Interesting suggestion, Travler. We could combine that with having to pay the cost for both exiles, even though there might be a form of abuse. Let's look into that later.

[Kal]

I belive the solution is simply to make it very expensive to self exile/exile a bp members in future rounds rather than a hard limit

[-Blue Moon-]

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=189603

zzhou i had the same idea, and didnt realise u had a thread here about it -- i put mine in PA suggestions, hopefully with some support we could see the changes implemented..

tuxed0

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Kal

I belive the solution is simply to make it very expensive to self exile/exile a bp members in future rounds rather than a hard limit

I think this http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...1&postcount=68 could be a solution tbh.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Nadar

I think this http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...1&postcount=68 could be a solution tbh.

What if you can only exile a BP member IF:
the rest of the BP agrees
the GC/ministers agree
the BP member has been inactive (and not in vac mode) twice the auto exile time

The exile should cost twice as much as normal

A BP member should be able to self exile but they must pay signficantly more than normal - and must stay in the galaxy for 2 weeks befoe exiling.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Kal

What if you can only exile a BP member IF:
the rest of the BP agrees
the GC/ministers agree
the BP member has been inactive (and not in vac mode) twice the auto exile time

The exile should cost twice as much as normal

A BP member should be able to self exile but they must pay signficantly more than normal - and must stay in the galaxy for 2 weeks befoe exiling.

Yes, that sounds better. My solution was probably too easy, so think yours would be the one.

[Willzzz]

Right. I have posted my views on this subject on the sugestion forums and i will most likely be hated for this responce. How ever i think its a good thing to prevent BP members to self exile themselves. Mainly becuase if you choose your BP members to team up with then its your own fault that you didnt choose wisley. I think if you commit to a BP, and then you see there inactive you then shouldnt be allowed to just up and lave for your error. You cant just soly blame the admins for this, as your also to blame for picking inactive members to pair up with.

[Avarin]

Its not allowed to exile yourself and u cannot get exiled if you joined a buddypack this round.
Why is that?
I dont see the point init..
Comments please...

[Heartless]

It's primary aim is to create a stable core for galaxies. It also has some nice side-effects, like having a trade-off between things and stuff. read up and you'll get a clue.