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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 19:52   #1
Kurashima
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Quote of the Day
God is not omnipotent, he's really just abusing semantics

"A hypothetical situation: Walk up to god and ask him to create someone more powerful than himself. I he can than that person is more powerful and therefore god is no longer omnipotent. If he can't, then he has failed"
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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 19:53   #2
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they could both be omnipotent
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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 19:55   #3
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Re: Quote of the Day
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurashima
God is not impotent, he's really just abusing himself
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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 19:57   #4
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But God IS importanat!
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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 21:54   #5
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This question has been put better as "Can God create a rock so heavy that God himself can't lift it?"

(Homer does a Burrito themed version of it in a Simpsons episode)
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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 21:56   #6
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Re: Quote of the Day
of course he isnt, how else could he have got mary up the duff?
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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 22:02   #7
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Re: Quote of the Day
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurashima
God is not omnipotent, he's really just abusing semantics

"A hypothetical situation: Walk up to god and ask him to create someone more powerful than himself. I he can than that person is more powerful and therefore god is no longer omnipotent. If he can't, then he has failed"
You twats really need to study some philosophy.
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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 22:03   #8
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Nobody, anywhere needs to study any philosophy.
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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 23:10   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
Nobody, anywhere needs to study any philosophy.
Sense.
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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 23:16   #10
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Re: Re: Quote of the Day
Quote:
Originally posted by the_dastardley_chihuahua
of course he isnt, how else could he have got mary up the duff?
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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 23:29   #11
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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 23:33   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by WorkMonkey
Surely god is above the physical realms of a body?
What's that got to do with anything? Is he capable of lifting a rock? Obviously being omnipotent, he can.

Can he create a rock? Obviously he can.

Can he create a rock which is "unliftable"? Yes, he's ominopotent.

Can he lift an unliftable rock? Yes...hang on...we've been conned!

The point is that the concept of omnipotence creates a logical paradox.

This isn't my argument, btw, it's (amongst others) Betrand Russell's.
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Unread 12 Feb 2003, 23:35   #13
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Re: Re: Quote of the Day
Quote:
Originally posted by W
You twats really need to study some philosophy.
You should really start coming out with more coherant responses to things, instead of just dissmissing out of hand anything anyone say's with, quite frankly, retarded insult's.
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Unread 13 Feb 2003, 03:37   #14
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Re: Re: Re: Quote of the Day
Quote:
Originally posted by Belgarath The Sorcerer
You should really start coming out with more coherant responses to things, instead of just dissmissing out of hand anything anyone say's with, quite frankly, retarded insult's.
Coherence is for the bright (boooooo)

I never dismissed anything, I gave a piece of advice. I said that people like Kura, who finds quotes like that novel, should study some philosophy.

(And I got to call Kura a twat! Tho most people beat me to that one :/)
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Unread 13 Feb 2003, 06:01   #15
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I'm pretty sure we went over this exact topic before and someone pasted in a nice quote from some Greek (probably) about how if he (God) was omnipotent he (God) could defy logic (since in theory if God created the universe he also created the laws by which it is bound and would be able to change them as he saw fit) and both create a rock that was so big he couldn't lift it and simultaniously lift it.
Or alter the above to fit your other quote which is equally silly in my opinion.

On the point of philosophy I have a theory that human beings can never truely claim we know anything since we do not know everything, that instead we only believe in things. (ps if someone knows of a philosopher who has done something on this subject or close to it lemme know mkay?)
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Unread 13 Feb 2003, 07:05   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by yodaa800
I'm pretty sure we went over this exact topic before and someone pasted in a nice quote from some Greek (probably) about how if he (God) was omnipotent he (God) could defy logic (since in theory if God created the universe he also created the laws by which it is bound and would be able to change them as he saw fit) and both create a rock that was so big he couldn't lift it and simultaniously lift it.
Or alter the above to fit your other quote which is equally silly in my opinion.

On the point of philosophy I have a theory that human beings can never truely claim we know anything since we do not know everything, that instead we only believe in things. (ps if someone knows of a philosopher who has done something on this subject or close to it lemme know mkay?)
On the first topic, look up aquinas, on the second, look up pyrrho
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Unread 13 Feb 2003, 07:15   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by W
On the first topic, look up aquinas, on the second, look up pyrrho
you are in a helpfulish mood.

get laid?

ps: i read the rest of the thread and saw your talk with belgy. now all is clear.

pps: mathematically, we can create a set U, the 'universal set', which contains all of everything. which is all good, until we take the power set of U, and find that our universal set contained at most ~0% of all possible things. which is a complete paradox.

which is a clear indication that all of math is wrong. boy have you all wasted a lot of time in class.
Last edited by acropolis; 13 Feb 2003 at 07:21.
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Unread 13 Feb 2003, 07:27   #18
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Does anyone have any interesting paradoxes?
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Unread 13 Feb 2003, 07:42   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by acropolis
you are in a helpfulish mood.

get laid?

ps: i read the rest of the thread and saw your talk with belgy. now all is clear.

pps: mathematically, we can create a set U, the 'universal set', which contains all of everything. which is all good, until we take the power set of U, and find that our universal set contained at most ~0% of all possible things. which is a complete paradox.

which is a clear indication that all of math is wrong. boy have you all wasted a lot of time in class.
Actually, if you'd studied some set theory, you'd known "everything" can't be a set, it has to be a class.
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Unread 13 Feb 2003, 10:10   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by acropolis
which is a clear indication that all of math is wrong. boy have you all wasted a lot of time in class.
Mathematics is incomplete, but what we've got is correct given the axioms assigned.
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Unread 13 Feb 2003, 10:13   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dante Hicks
What's that got to do with anything? Is he capable of lifting a rock? Obviously being omnipotent, he can.

Can he create a rock? Obviously he can.

Can he create a rock which is "unliftable"? Yes, he's ominopotent.

Can he lift an unliftable rock? Yes...hang on...we've been conned!

The point is that the concept of omnipotence creates a logical paradox.

This isn't my argument, btw, it's (amongst others) Betrand Russell's.
The paradox is right. Even Descartes stumbled upon a paradox trying to proove God exists.
"I think, therefore I am"
"I think about a perfect being, and him God"
"Because God is perfect, he MUST exist"
Roughly translated.
On this case, it can be argued whether it is perfect to exist materially or to exist in thoughts.

Now, a priest friend of mine answered me when I asked if God can create a rock too heavy for him to lift.
"God can create a rock too heavy for him to lift. After that, he makes himself stronger, and lifts the rock."
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Unread 13 Feb 2003, 10:14   #22
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I suggest we start this thread all over with a new quote and put the bad feelings behind us!:


"The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence"






Thankyou!



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Unread 13 Feb 2003, 10:17   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tietäjä
Now, a priest friend of mine answered me when I asked if God can create a rock too heavy for him to lift.
"God can create a rock too heavy for him to lift. After that, he makes himself stronger, and lifts the rock."
That's really stupid
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Unread 13 Feb 2003, 16:40   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by W
Actually, if you'd studied some set theory, you'd known "everything" can't be a set, it has to be a class.
a) missing the point
b) poor grammar
c) i don't 'approve' of classes. seems to be math via semantics, e.g., simply defining there to be no paradoxes.
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Unread 13 Feb 2003, 16:57   #25
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