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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 16:48   #1
G.K Zhukov
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Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Norway celebrates 100 years independence from Sweden today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4616309.stm
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 16:51   #2
Tomkat
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

You'd have thought that 100 years would be long enough to become non-shit


Another "who's country is better?" argument! Oh wooh
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 16:58   #3
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

another bloody rant about norway more likely.
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 17:12   #4
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Apprently all the girls are stunning e.g. models. ALL OF THEM.
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 17:16   #5
Alki
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

ive never been to norway.
true story
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 17:22   #6
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Exclamation Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Sweden wasn't occupied by Nazi Germany during WWII.

hahaha
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 19:24   #7
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Sweden wasn't occupied by Nazi Germany during WWII.

hahaha
Beacuse they were sissy boys.
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 20:01   #8
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

im sure they seperated just so they could vote for eachother during eurovision contests.
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 20:03   #9
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Everyone knows eurovision is a big waste of time.
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 20:08   #10
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

it is? i had taken it seriously for all these years
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 20:35   #11
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
Beacuse they were sissy boys.
Oh I wouldn't say that, the Swedes used to be pretty bloody imperialistic. They owned not only Norway but also Finland, Estonia, Latvia, plus parts of Poland, Russia, Germany, Denmark and Lithuania at one point or another in history. Some of this was inherited, but a lot of it was conquered.
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 20:49   #12
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nondescript Human
Oh I wouldn't say that, the Swedes used to be pretty bloody imperialistic. They owned not only Norway but also Finland, Estonia, Latvia, plus parts of Poland, Russia, Germany, Denmark and Lithuania at one point or another in history. Some of this was inherited, but a lot of it was conquered.
Sweden never owned Norway, we had a union with them as the dominating partner.
And they didn't conquer us, we were more or less forced into the union after Denmark (who did in fact have supremacy over us) was on the losing side of the Napoleonic Wars.

Swedens undoubtable history of power, war and conquest does not in any way excuse that they didn't involve themselves in World War 2. They even traded with the Germans, sold them weapon parts, etc.
Granted they gave asylum to several Norwegian refugees, but that was about the only effort they made on the Allied side.
It is a folly to speculate about what might have happened if so and so took place, but Sweden's participation could well have had a very real effect on the War.
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 21:05   #13
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Exclamation Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
Sweden never owned Norway, we had a union with them as the dominating partner.
Every Norwegian I've ever talked to online has always said this, and I always think "pedantic bullshit in order to save face." every time.
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 21:08   #14
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

I specifically said that not all of the land they 'owned' was conquered. Norway was ruled for a period by the Swedish king, whether it was conquered or not. Anyway, earlier on parts of Norway, including Trondheim, were conquered by Charles X from the Danes. Also conquered by what was considered one of the best armies in Europe were Livonia, Ingria, Estonia, and Scania (which they still own) among others. Therefore my point that history hasn't shown the Swedes to be pussy boys stands!
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 21:09   #15
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madina
Apprently all the girls are stunning e.g. models. ALL OF THEM.
Even the ones with Jimmy Hill-chins.
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 21:11   #16
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
Sweden never owned Norway, we had a union with them as the dominating partner.
And they didn't conquer us, we were more or less forced into the union after Denmark (who did in fact have supremacy over us) was on the losing side of the Napoleonic Wars.

Swedens undoubtable history of power, war and conquest does not in any way excuse that they didn't involve themselves in World War 2. They even traded with the Germans, sold them weapon parts, etc.
Granted they gave asylum to several Norwegian refugees, but that was about the only effort they made on the Allied side.
It is a folly to speculate about what might have happened if so and so took place, but Sweden's participation could well have had a very real effect on the War.
and yet somehow we like the swedish more

'go figure'
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 21:38   #17
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
and yet somehow we like the swedish more

'go figure'
I imagine you are quite the ABBA-fan, singing Waterloo with all your breath while gently toucing yourself and thinking about Benny.

I would rather people like you didn't like Norway, it could give us a bad name.
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Unread 7 Jun 2005, 21:41   #18
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Yay for Norway \o/
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Unread 8 Jun 2005, 06:56   #19
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Thanks for the tree every christmas, if only more nations (HELLO FRANCE, ARE YOU READING THIS YOU UNGREATFUL LAMB BURNING, STRIKING EVERY FECKIN HOLIDAY TYPE GITS) could be as nice.
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Unread 8 Jun 2005, 11:01   #20
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Do something interesting like detach yourselves from the face of the earth and fly to the moon.
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Unread 8 Jun 2005, 12:36   #21
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Do something interesting like detach yourselves from the face of the earth and fly to the moon.
I was on the verge of pos.reping you with a reminder to keep taking your pills, but then I remembered that pos. reping you is forbidden on pain of Pain and Banning....
Still keeping your double-69?
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Unread 8 Jun 2005, 17:20   #22
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

In my rep panel 4 people are having sex *giggle*
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Unread 8 Jun 2005, 18:39   #23
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

no one cares you ****tard!

no one cares


Seems someone cares a bit to much.
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Unread 8 Jun 2005, 18:44   #24
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Way to celebarte. Bring in Donald Rumsfeld, the army, and a American aircraft hangar. Throw in a few drunk nazies, korpsmusikk (dont know what that transelates to, it's like a very big band walking around playing shit music in uniforms), a very boring demonstration against Rumsfeld, some crappy popmusic and the King. Sounds like fun
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Unread 8 Jun 2005, 18:48   #25
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

I agree Snurx, would have been much more cool if somebody just whacked the warcriminal and sunk the aircraft carrier like we did Blücher some 60 years ago.
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Unread 8 Jun 2005, 18:48   #26
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
Sweden never owned Norway, we had a union with them as the dominating partner..
So, basically, Norway is Sweden's bitch, right?
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Unread 8 Jun 2005, 19:10   #27
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Was, yes.
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Unread 8 Jun 2005, 19:51   #28
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

This post recognises the Nordic welfair system before the troubles in the 90s.
Respect.
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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 01:22   #29
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
no one cares you ****tard!

no one cares


Seems someone cares a bit to much.
This made post made logic break down in tears.
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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 12:25   #30
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Im refering to the neg-reps I got for making the thread Johhny.

If they didnt care so much, they shouldnt care enough to read what I posted and then neg-rep me.
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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 12:28   #31
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Im refering to the neg-reps I got for making the thread Johhny.

If they didnt care so much, they shouldnt care enough to read what I posted and then neg-rep me.
caring what you post is immaterial. reading it and thinking you're shite is more pertinent.
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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 12:46   #32
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Your as good as Hibs, Phang.
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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 13:09   #33
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaio
Thanks for the tree every christmas, if only more nations (HELLO FRANCE, ARE YOU READING THIS YOU UNGREATFUL LAMB BURNING, STRIKING EVERY FECKIN HOLIDAY TYPE GITS) could be as nice.
I prefer using the name "cheese eating surrender monkeys".
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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 16:25   #34
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Exclamation Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Norgay more like.
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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 16:38   #35
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
Sweden never owned Norway, we had a union with them as the dominating partner.
And they didn't conquer us, we were more or less forced into the union after Denmark (who did in fact have supremacy over us) was on the losing side of the Napoleonic Wars.

Swedens undoubtable history of power, war and conquest does not in any way excuse that they didn't involve themselves in World War 2. They even traded with the Germans, sold them weapon parts, etc.
Granted they gave asylum to several Norwegian refugees, but that was about the only effort they made on the Allied side.
It is a folly to speculate about what might have happened if so and so took place, but Sweden's participation could well have had a very real effect on the War.
"us"

"we"

FFS, why do you give a shit about the crappy little patch of land you live in? What's the point? I'm against anything even vaguely nationalist at the best of times, but being proud of being a Norweigan is pure absurdity.
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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 16:52   #36
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
"us"

"we"

FFS, why do you give a shit about the crappy little patch of land you live in? What's the point? I'm against anything even vaguely nationalist at the best of times, but being proud of being a Norweigan is pure absurdity.
We're all nationalists in one sense or another, unless you are one of those pathetic persons who claim to "hate" their country for one reason or another.
I quite like Norway, and aspects of this country is better than many others. But I am multi-ethnic and internationalistic and thus consider myself more of comspolite normally.

What you have to understand (and probably allready do) is that humans feel a closeness to their social surrroundings, family - town - region - country.
I feel closer to people in my country than to you for a variety of reasons, the main being language and culture.

Lastly: you argue that you are against people with a sense of pride in their nation, and then go on saying this should be particulary true of Norrwegians.
With that statement you assign a value to different countries, and thus you prove that you yourself are nationalistic.
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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 17:01   #37
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
We're all nationalists in one sense or another, unless you are one of those pathetic persons who claim to "hate" their country for one reason or another.
I quite like Norway, and aspects of this country is better than many others. But I am multi-ethnic and internationalistic and thus consider myself more of comspolite normally.

What you have to understand (and probably allready do) is that humans feel a closeness to their social surrroundings, family - town - region - country.
I feel closer to people in my country than to you for a variety of reasons, the main being language and culture.

Lastly: you argue that you are against people with a sense of pride in their nation, and then go on saying this should be particulary true of Norrwegians.
With that statement you assign a value to different countries, and thus you prove that you yourself are nationalistic.
well, you can forget the bit about norway if you want, so we can focus on the rest of the argument. That bit was more like a sop to the general attitude of the forums (i just want to fit in!)

I don't see why i have to "hate" my country just because i don't want to feel proud of it, thats just silly. I don't hate my country any more than i hate any other country, if you looked at my other posts i generally try to spread sweetness and light and happiness for all humans of the world. True, sometimes i insult people, but that's all in good fun

It's just the idea of being proud of your country that gets to me, what actual connection do you have with it? It's a collection of millions of people, true there are certain similarities between all of you that aren't present between you and members of other countries; but i'm a great believer in people all over the globe being inherently similar.

The problem is not feeling a closeness to your surroundings (im proud of my family, and my friends, but that's about where the pride ends), but when you take it to another level and consider your whole country something worth being proud of. Even if you ignore the greater point that all countries do terrible things and even make the world a worse place by contributing to the ongoing system of capitalism that breeds gross inequality... it doesn't even make sense. The only reason that you are nationalistic is that the media breeds this feeling within it's citizens as it makes them happy and keeps them content. It's a very nice thing for all the stupid proles to believe in their country, it makes them work harder and it gives them more of a purpose than they might otherwise have; but someone like you (who seems reasonably intelligent) should really be above all that.

Step outside the box man

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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 17:02   #38
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Exclamation Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

I love it when Nantoz gets patriotic.
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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 17:33   #39
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
well, you can forget the bit about norway if you want, so we can focus on the rest of the argument. That bit was more like a sop to the general attitude of the forums (i just want to fit in!)

I don't see why i have to "hate" my country just because i don't want to feel proud of it, thats just silly. I don't hate my country any more than i hate any other country, if you looked at my other posts i generally try to spread sweetness and light and happiness for all humans of the world. True, sometimes i insult people, but that's all in good fun

It's just the idea of being proud of your country that gets to me, what actual connection do you have with it? It's a collection of millions of people, true there are certain similarities between all of you that aren't present between you and members of other countries; but i'm a great believer in people all over the globe being inherently similar.

The problem is not feeling a closeness to your surroundings (im proud of my family, and my friends, but that's about where the pride ends), but when you take it to another level and consider your whole country something worth being proud of. Even if you ignore the greater point that all countries do terrible things and even make the world a worse place by contributing to the ongoing system of capitalism that breeds gross inequality... it doesn't even make sense. The only reason that you are nationalistic is that the media breeds this feeling within it's citizens as it makes them happy and keeps them content. It's a very nice thing for all the stupid proles to believe in their country, it makes them work harder and it gives them more of a purpose than they might otherwise have; but someone like you (who seems reasonably intelligent) should really be above all that.

Step outside the box man

As I said in my last post I'm quite the internationalist (I even thoght about joining a Trotskist Party once in my long gone youth...)

My point isn't that we should all drape out houses in flags and play the national anthem in every comcercial break, but if your country does something objectively good then you should be able to feel a certain pride. And likewise, if your country does something objectively bad, then you should feel that you have certain responsibilty to make it stop happening again (though elections, etc).
This is why I find the traditional American argumentation - that theyfeel obliged support all American wars because it is patriotic (sic) - to be flawed to the extreme.

Norway has some very good qualities, e.g. health care, educational offers, civil liberties, that are objectively good and that I would like to see spread around the globe.
But on the other hand I see good things in other countries that are lacking in Norway.
It's all dynamics. Some things are good here, other things are good elsewhere.

There will always be some division in the world, due to ethnic, geographical or linguistic differences. There will always be some community that people find themselves more close-knitted to than others.
This is the natural state of humans - we are after all socal animals, that define ourselves mostly from our surroundings.
This will be the case also after a hypothetichal revolution, and the point is that it's not neccessarily a bad thing - it all depends on how it is applied.

Whenever I see a sports event where Norway participates I will be naturally inclined to cheer for the country where I was raised, but this does not have any deeper significance than the simple expression of our natural instinct for competition.
But even this can be modulated, e.g. when we beat Brazil 4-2 i was rooting for Brazil, because I felt Norway played terrible football, and I was seriously saddened when 'we' won....

All in all, nationalism doesn't have to be about a mindless and utter support of every action your country's leaders make. Quite on the contrary I feel nationalism obligates all citizens to take responsibility for those actions, and seek to make them as rational and benefiting as possible.
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Unread 9 Jun 2005, 17:54   #40
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Re: Hipp Hipp Hurrah 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
The only reason that you are nationalistic is that the media breeds this feeling within it's citizens as it makes them happy and keeps them content. It's a very nice thing for all the stupid proles to believe in their country, it makes them work harder and it gives them more of a purpose than they might otherwise have; but someone like you (who seems reasonably intelligent) should really be above all that.
Since the elite wants Norway to become member of the EU, there is very little pro-nationalistic stuff in the media, rather the oposite.

And its posible to be proud of your country, without beeing hateful of other countries, nor forget the bad stuff in your countries history.
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