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Unread 5 Nov 2004, 16:49   #1
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation The Noth East 'No' Vote.

I personally am pretty angry about this mainly because the 'Yes' campaign (And by extension, the government.) made such an incredible balls-up of the whole thing, operationally and strategically.

A few reasons as to why it failed:

- Details/Media management. The incredible lack of detail that was offered was astonishing. I am a fairly well engaged individual politically, and I heard absolutely nothing regarding the precise details of the thing, and it was a task to find that information out. It's reasonable to assume that most people knew less than me. I personally received a single pamphlet during the duration of the campaign, and it was from the 'No' campaign. My mother received a fairly thoughtful and detailed letter from Unison arguing that she should vote 'Yes.' The official 'Yes' campaign was functionally non-existent as far this was concerned. Astonishing. Not impressed in the least. Whatever the 'Yes' campaign spent their money on, it wasn't what mattered.

- Cost and Current mood on the issue. The other major reason. Can I just express how incredibly angry I am about fact that the Scottish Parliament Building has now effectively strangled this debate for years, if not decades to come in this country? Thanks. It did everything to re-enforce the preconceptions regarding the issue; that local politicians, once they were give an inch of power, would become self-aggrandising, ludicrously expensive political libertines.

So thanks to all you MSP's. You've advanced the cause of centralisation in this country more than nearly twenty years of Tory government could ever have hoped to do. You self-absorbed, inbred, shite-gobbling nutjobs.

The fact that there was no definitive site allocated to where the new Assembly was sit also contributed to this. By simply picking an existing building in Durham city (And let no-one say that we need a new building; Durham is easily one of, if not the, greatest architectural gems of the North.) beforehand, the 'Yes' campaign could have averted fears regarding a possible Scottish Parliament fiasco, and kicked one of the planks out from under the 'No' campaign. For reasons unknown to sound political judgement, they chose not to.

Equally, this was simply the wrong time to run this. This should have been run in 1999 or 1997, which would have pretty much guaranteed a 'Yes'. Not now. Now people are simply in a trough of cynicism and hatred for Blair, and frankly, who blames them. They were not going to be receptive to such a proposal.

- Powers. The proposal on the cards was an appallingly wimpy affair, with fewer powers than the Welsh Assembly. You just can't do that. You can't offer a democratised version of the existing regional economic quagos and dress it up as proper decentralisation. Needless to say, the 'Talking Shop' accusation was immediately mobilised, and in this case, it rang true. And, again, there was scant detail on the distribution of members over the region. (The pamphlet from the 'No' campaign solemnly informed me that out of the the total of members, [Twenty something, I think.] only two would come from Teesside and Redcar-Cleveland. To me this sounded palpably false and alarmist, but, with so little detail how could you refute it?)

- Inter-regional politics. Just a point to back up that last sentence. There was nowhere near enough to clarify the issue of the balance of power within the region. The nearest that came to was a statement that the building itself would be housed in Durham. This was all. In particular, the Teesside vote, which was crucial to a 'Yes' vote, remained staunchly unconvinced. All the public meetings I saw on TV (Admittedly, I watch TV less than Hannah Hauxwell.) were held on Grey Monument, right in the centre of Newcastle. They even wheeled Ray Mallon up there for a speech.

Way to go, braniacs!

- Personalities. They gave the unflinching impression that this was simply an elite-driven politico operation, (Which in effect it was.) and left the 'No' Campaign to gather the genuinely local and small fellow types.


I can't think of anything else, atm, but then again my brain has turned to a purple pulp after writing all that. I feel like Martin Luther.

Actually, I'm rather thinking of e-mailing this to Prescott, just to show him how these sorts of things should be run. If you're going to run one of the slackest political campaigns in living memory, then expect to receive a beating.

Oh, and can I just say, that a 'Yes' vote could easily have been produced if this had been done right. And now we won't get another chance to vote on this issue for another two decades, minimum. Sigh.

Last edited by Marilyn Manson; 5 Nov 2004 at 17:11.
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Unread 5 Nov 2004, 16:55   #2
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Re: The Noth East 'No' Vote.

where exactly was supposed to be be voting? ie, how north east was this thingy?

i was under the impression that it included yorkshire, yet i've not heard a thing about it...

my preferd solution, however, would be to stop scotish/welsh pms voting on things that only affect england. this would seem to have broadly the same effect

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Unread 5 Nov 2004, 16:57   #3
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Re: The Noth East 'No' Vote.

why do you want devolution so much?
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Unread 5 Nov 2004, 16:58   #4
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Exclamation Re: The Noth East 'No' Vote.

'Yorkshire and the Humber' were scheduled to have a seperate one, but that's been put on the back burner more or less forever now. (So was The North-West.)

Basically, it included everywhere between Berwick and Teesside. (Where North Yorkshire begins, essentially.) Cumbria not included.

The main two urban centres in that region are Teesside and Tyneside, basically.

Last edited by Marilyn Manson; 5 Nov 2004 at 17:12.
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Unread 5 Nov 2004, 16:59   #5
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Exclamation Re: The Noth East 'No' Vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nondescript Human
why do you want devolution so much?
Because the closer genuine government is to the people, the more effective it is, the more responsive it is, and generally it enjoys more support.
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Unread 5 Nov 2004, 17:29   #6
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Re: The Noth East 'No' Vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Because the closer genuine government is to the people, the more effective it is, the more responsive it is, and generally it enjoys more support.
Wouldn't a better idea then be to give more power to County and Borough Councils, rather than some uber-Council covering an entire region?
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Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 5 Nov 2004, 18:07   #7
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Re: The Noth East 'No' Vote.

what proteus said, the last thing that is needed or wanted is another level of government with self serving politicians doing ****all for local needs. what is needed and wanted is reform of county/borough/city councils so they can meet the needs of the local people without interference from westminster or some artificial 'regional government'.
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Unread 5 Nov 2004, 18:08   #8
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Re: The Noth East 'No' Vote.

oh, MM, btw, durham county council have already sourced a site, bought it, and starrted buliding what they hoped were going to be the regional govt. HQ, which means that someone up at county hall is looking a bit red faced now hehehe
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Unread 5 Nov 2004, 18:09   #9
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Re: The Noth East 'No' Vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Because the closer genuine government is to the people, the more effective it is, the more responsive it is, and generally it enjoys more support.
This is how we in Wales feel about our assembly, or not.
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Unread 5 Nov 2004, 18:25   #10
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: The Noth East 'No' Vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
oh, MM, btw, durham county council have already sourced a site, bought it, and starrted buliding what they hoped were going to be the regional govt. HQ, which means that someone up at county hall is looking a bit red faced now hehehe


****ing typical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus.
Wouldn't a better idea then be to give more power to County and Borough Councils, rather than some uber-Council covering an entire region?
This is a bit odd, since it poses an either/or choice.

The proposal was accurate in this respect; it proposed to abolish county councils and reform some of the boundaries of existing unitary authorities. (Which, let me just say here, I think should be done more or less nationwide anyway.) It did not propose to abolish local councils full-stop.

I don't really expect people from without the North East to understand this, but I think that the region in particular needs some form of regional voice and co-ordination as a matter of course. It simply can't compete with Scotland, Wales, London, etc, not to mention internationally. It never could in the past, really, and it certainly can't now. Councils are simply limited in ability and scope to achieve this, and national government, well, has national priorities.

I don't want all local power to be given to regional government in place of councils. Lord no. That would be assinine. Local government should also enjoy a greater expansion of responsbility.

To be honest, my ideal would be a very limited Federal system in which central government bogged-off almost entirely. Not going to happen tho'.

Last edited by Marilyn Manson; 5 Nov 2004 at 18:34.
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Unread 5 Nov 2004, 18:49   #11
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Re: The Noth East 'No' Vote.

federalism sucks in general.
(i say this without actually knowing who voted about what, so feel free to ignore it)
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Unread 5 Nov 2004, 18:59   #12
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Exclamation Re: The Noth East 'No' Vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
federalism sucks in general.
So do Austrian girls.
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