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Unread 21 Jan 2006, 20:45   #1
Mushroom
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Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/4635916.stm

Quote:
Former Liberal Democrat leadership challenger Mark Oaten has stood down as the party's home affairs spokesman over an alleged affair with a rent boy.

Mr Oaten released a statement apologising for the embarrassment caused to his family, friends and the Liberal Democrat party.
Rofflepolitics

Things can't really get much worse for the Lib Dems at the moment can they?
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Unread 21 Jan 2006, 20:47   #2
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

"Rent boy" is a ridiculous term.
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Unread 21 Jan 2006, 20:47   #3
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

So they've booted out a leader for a drink problem and someone with a rent-boy problem thought he was the better man for the job!?!?
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Unread 21 Jan 2006, 20:49   #4
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

i actually double checked the URL after reading 'rent boy' as i thought this might be another bbc news site mockup thing...



seemingly not.
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Unread 21 Jan 2006, 20:50   #5
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

You bastard Mushroom, I just made a thread but you beat me it had a better title too.
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Unread 21 Jan 2006, 21:23   #6
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

That BBC News article says nothing about a rent-boy, just ''errors of judgement''. Still, so much for my local MP
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Unread 21 Jan 2006, 21:27   #7
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Dave
That BBC News article says nothing about a rent-boy, just ''errors of judgement''. Still, so much for my local MP
Headline: "Oaten resigns over rent boy claim"

First sentence: "Former Liberal Democrat leadership challenger Mark Oaten has stood down as the party's home affairs spokesman over an alleged affair with a rent boy."
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Unread 21 Jan 2006, 21:27   #8
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Dave
That BBC News article says nothing about a rent-boy, just ''errors of judgement''. Still, so much for my local MP
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Unread 21 Jan 2006, 21:37   #9
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nondescript Human
Headline: "Oaten resigns over rent boy claim"

First sentence: "Former Liberal Democrat leadership challenger Mark Oaten has stood down as the party's home affairs spokesman over an alleged affair with a rent boy."
yes, it's changed now. The original Head line was "Oaten Resigns over 'errors'"
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Unread 21 Jan 2006, 21:45   #10
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

even if it said that when you read it at first, the fact you actually went to the effort of posting that it didnt mention rent boys, even despite the quote using the phrase, even despite the linked article by then using the phrase frequently, is mind-boggling.
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Unread 21 Jan 2006, 23:08   #11
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

just another reason to vote the lib dems i guess, they represent the british demographic quite well in theory, closet homos, closet alcoholics and i have no idea where im going with this, but im going to say one thing...

It sickens me that there is no privacy or respect. Years ago the press used to respect politician s and the famous, there is none of that anymore. It saddens me deeply because each time the BBC in the past two weeks have shown pictures of mark oaten it has been him at home having breakfast with his daughter.

These are real people. They arent machines. What about his life? His daughters life? Who cares if he pays to get bummed, in fact good on him. I feel sorry for his family mainly, its a real shame that such shit papers as the news of the world make money out of this. Looking back on it the same with Sven Goran Errikson, the guy was duped. Luckily I never bought it, but the immediate effect was wow etc. Sven could lose his job, mark oaten effectively just has, all because of some twats who make a shock headline every sunday.

Maybe its just me that isnt in this whole culture of having to know everything and anything about people. This country is allowing this culture of chavness to rule supreme. No longer can we have a bit of respect. Its a trickle down effect. It starts with the way people think, children pick up on this lack of privacy and respect and its why we now have a breed of twats running around the country and they cant even buy a pack of fags.

Seriously this mark oaten might be the biggest twat around, I dont really care, doesnt mean that his life has to be ruined and his childrens lives. But I guess its ok isnt it because it sells papers.

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Unread 21 Jan 2006, 23:23   #12
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
It starts with the way people think, children pick up on this lack of privacy and respect and its why we now have a breed of twats running around the country and they cant even buy a pack of fags.
But, Mark Oaten has surely just proved that democracy is alive and well, since he appears to have been buying more than his share of fags recently.



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Unread 22 Jan 2006, 09:16   #13
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
Seriously this mark oaten might be the biggest twat around, I dont really care, doesnt mean that his life has to be ruined and his childrens lives. But I guess its ok isnt it because it sells papers.
Surely he ruined his children's lives, not the press?
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Unread 22 Jan 2006, 10:51   #14
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danae
Surely he ruined his children's lives, not the press?
what he does in his own spare time is surely upto him?

who cares if he bums, the press should respect that he likes to shag a rent boy here and there.
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Unread 22 Jan 2006, 11:24   #15
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

It's interesting when they decided to reveal this to the press. 9 Minutes after it was confirmed Willy the London Whale had passed away this story was released.
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Unread 22 Jan 2006, 14:48   #16
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danae
Surely he ruined his children's lives, not the press?
Because he's gay? Because he pays for sex? Or because he has sex outside of marriage? Aren't all of these legal in britain now?
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Unread 22 Jan 2006, 20:19   #17
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
It saddens me deeply because each time the BBC in the past two weeks have shown pictures of mark oaten it has been him at home having breakfast with his daughter.
Did the BBC break into his house and install secret-hidden cameras to film this? Or perhaps he (or his campaign advisors) were fairly cynically using his "family image" to win support in the leadership contest?

I agree with your general point but "famous" people of all forms need to accept a certain level of responsibilty in all this nonsense. If you play the media game then you can hardly be annoyed when it backfires.
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Unread 22 Jan 2006, 20:39   #18
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Did the BBC break into his house and install secret-hidden cameras to film this? Or perhaps he (or his campaign advisors) were fairly cynically using his "family image" to win support in the leadership contest?
true its swing and roundabouts I guess but the thing that sprung to my mind at least was that his kids now have to grow up with firstly the thought that there father had slept with a rent boy and secondly being mocked/bullied for it by there peers.

Wether or not they are on tv the fact still remains that I feel sorry for his children, incidently now on channel 4 news his kids faces have been blurred out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I agree with your general point but "famous" people of all forms need to accept a certain level of responsibilty in all this nonsense. If you play the media game then you can hardly be annoyed when it backfires.
I still feel that a bit of respect, wouldnt hurt. Was it roosevelt who was disabled? All the press knew it but didnt report on it out of respect. Theres other examples too with the labour? PM in the 70s having a wife who was having a known affair, the press knew about it but once again didnt report on it. Out of respect. We are now in a culture driven by ruining peoples lives.

Its a bit like if you were a politican dante, and then some twat did on expose on you, saying look hes bad he pops a few es at the weekend. When in reality its out of your normal week. Its your freetime and bugger me if you dont get caught who the hell cares, its not actually hurting anyone.
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Unread 22 Jan 2006, 20:51   #19
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

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Originally Posted by pig
Its a bit like if you were a politican dante, and then some twat did on expose on you, saying look hes bad he pops a few es at the weekend. When in reality its out of your normal week. Its your freetime and bugger me if you dont get caught who the hell cares, its not actually hurting anyone.
It's a bit of a cliche but the best policy to me is openesss (if you're going to be in the public eye). One of the few examples of something I admired in American politics recently was a few years ago it was revealed a Republican (I think) candidate had been charged with drink driving in the past (or something like that - this is from memory and I can't find anything with a quick Google). So instead of denying it, he made a website just outlining the various "bad" things he had done (affairs, alcohol problems, etc). I believe it backfired horribly and his candidacy was withdrawn, but his approach seemed the most genuine in the circumstances.

If I was a politican I'd keep a blog and I'd detail each and every disgusting incidence of my life. Hell, I'd scan the receipts from any whores I'd visited with some sort of rating system scoring them out of ten on technique, looks, professionalism, etc.
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Unread 22 Jan 2006, 20:58   #20
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
It's a bit of a cliche but the best policy to me is openesss (if you're going to be in the public eye). One of the few examples of something I admired in American politics recently was a few years ago it was revealed a Republican (I think) candidate had been charged with drink driving in the past (or something like that - this is from memory and I can't find anything with a quick Google). So instead of denying it, he made a website just outlining the various "bad" things he had done (affairs, alcohol problems, etc). I believe it backfired horribly and his candidacy was withdrawn, but his approach seemed the most genuine in the circumstances.

If I was a politican I'd keep a blog and I'd detail each and every disgusting incidence of my life. Hell, I'd scan the receipts from any whores I'd visited with some sort of rating system scoring them out of ten on technique, looks, professionalism, etc.
Its a thin line. On the one hand openess is an attractive option and can be an advantage, if we see that people are just humans to a certain extent the public give sympathy to this and relate to it.

Then again how much do we want to know? Myself I want them to do there job and thats that. Theres already so many lies, backstabbing, corruption and bullshit around that I dont want to know the full extent of it. When I do it saddens me. It also makes me realise that we are all humans. Much like 2 hrs ago when I was watching the snooker I was thinking its not an easy shot but I regurlarly get that in, then ronnie o'sullivan misses it, reminding me that we arent all machines and in fact have faults.
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Unread 22 Jan 2006, 21:06   #21
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

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Originally Posted by pig
Then again how much do we want to know? Myself I want them to do there job and thats that. Theres already so many lies, backstabbing, corruption and bullshit around that I dont want to know the full extent of it.
Well this is the difference. If someone has done something genuinely "wrong" (e.g. been corrupt) then they should be punished, either through the legal system or through public opinion turning against them (losing office perhaps in the example of an elected politcian).

If they've simply made errors in judgement then we can make allowances, as you say, we're all human.

However, having paid sex with a 23 year old man is not wrong. Sure, it may not be everyone's cup of tea and might be a bit too sleazy for middle England (if such a thing exists). So why should people be ashamed of it? It seems that unless the degenerates of this world aren't open about their various sick perversions (lo GD) then we'll forever be under the moral tyranny of the small minded.
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Unread 22 Jan 2006, 21:19   #22
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
So why should people be ashamed of it? It seems that unless the degenerates of this world aren't open about their various sick perversions (lo GD) then we'll forever be under the moral tyranny of the small minded.
I agree people shouldnt be ashamed of it. I dont think its middle england, so to speak that is to blame. Infact I was having an interesting conversation with a friend today over lunch and he was telling me about swinging. Basically what he did was email someone on the internet, slept with them and thats that. Hes a good looking bloke, from a decent background and all he wanted was sex. Middle England is exactly what I would call him.

My point behind that story is that he didnt seem to ashamed by it, I wasnt too shocked. The more intelligent amongst us I would say are becoming alot more open in attitudes, however its papers like the news of the world, which is trying to dictate the way people think and to make a buck out of it. No one is going to write good on mark oaten for having paid sex with a rent boy because it doesnt sell papers, nor is that controversy that the public likes to write about.

Some time ago I was with my dad and step family and we were talking about michael jackson. My step mum whos a daily mail reader was going on about how its disgusting and she had read he had done this and this. At which point my dad turned round and said shes as perverse as michael jackson as is the papers.

I think he has a point, we have a sick culture of wanting to know dirty little secrets, which in time gone by wouldnt have been the case.
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 01:31   #23
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

I thought the crux of this issue isn't that he's had sex with a guy, it's that he's gone off and hired a male prostitute.
Isn't buying sex illegal in the UK?

There's no way the papers would have gotten away with just reporting he's bumming men if he'd not broke the law. They'd have gotten their arses sued. That kinda story wouldn't have been in the public interest etc.
I'm not saying it wouldn't have been printed by some.
But the point is he's broke the law and that's not something you really should be doing if running for the leadership of a political party.
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 01:40   #24
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

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Isn't buying sex illegal in the UK?
No, not exactly.
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 01:51   #25
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

He played the "decent family man" card to get elected and has been shown to be dishonest. He also made policy decisions on the issue that were incompatible with his actions, and condemned someone else caught for the same thing.

Also a huge error of judgment in standing for the leadership knowing what damage would have been done to his party if he'd won and then the story came out.

I'm still wondering what he had them do to him when "the naked MP then got the rent boys to humiliate him with a bizarre sex act too revolting to describe" (gotta love tabloids)
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 03:49   #26
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

I think this guy should join the Catholic Church. He'd fit in well there.
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 10:30   #27
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

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I'm still wondering what he had them do to him when "the naked MP then got the rent boys to humiliate him with a bizarre sex act too revolting to describe" (gotta love tabloids)
it's the news of the world. they were probably playing bridge.
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 10:43   #28
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

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Originally Posted by IncubusGod
That kinda story wouldn't have been in the public interest etc.
whereas this is?

Quote:
But the point is he's broke the law and that's not something you really should be doing if running for the leadership of a political party.
This would only be relevant if he supported the law in question. While I dont know what his beliefs actually are, I would assume that as a lib dem theres a decent chance he realised it was nonsense.

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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 10:53   #29
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

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Originally Posted by Nodrog
This would only be relevant if he supported the law in question. While I dont know what his beliefs actually are, I would assume that as a lib dem theres a decent chance he realised it was nonsense.
so if you break a law, but you dont support it, its not a crime?
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 11:12   #30
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

also, it's not a crime because it is not, in fact, a crime.
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 11:21   #31
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

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Originally Posted by wu_trax
so if you break a law, but you dont support it, its not a crime?
Of course it is, but it's not morally wrong (from the point of the view of perpetrator anyway). It could still be hypocrisy - I don't know Oaten's view on civil disobedience / breaking "bad" laws. But speaking generally there are numerous examples where breaking the law is acceptable / not morally wrong.

Although it doesn't really matter in this specific case anyhow.
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 11:23   #32
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

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Originally Posted by Nodrog
This would only be relevant if he supported the law in question. While I dont know what his beliefs actually are, I would assume that as a lib dem theres a decent chance he realised it was nonsense.
I believe ironically he was in support of stricter laws on prostitution ie banning kerb crawling
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 11:28   #33
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

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I believe ironically he was in support of stricter laws on prostitution ie banning kerb crawling
The kerb crawling issue is not the same as prostitution issue generally. There are plenty of people who are militantly opposed to kerb crawling but not opposed to the idea of more liberalised laws elsewhere. I believe even some of the Balsall Heath protestors in your home town weren't actually opposed to "safe zones" being set up (albeit outside their neighbourhood).
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 11:29   #34
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

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Although it doesn't really matter in this specific case anyhow.
sleeping with prostitutes isnt strictly illegal if its in a brothel/off the streets environment, im talking about say in soho in london, or birmingham where the brothels are running, the police obviously know they are brothels how can they miss the red lights and with such names as "sensations" and "cuddles" etc.
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 11:30   #35
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
The kerb crawling issue is not the same as prostitution issue generally. There are plenty of people who are militantly opposed to kerb crawling but not opposed to the idea of more liberalised laws elsewhere. I believe even some of the Balsall Heath protestors in your home town weren't actually opposed to "safe zones" being set up (albeit outside their neighbourhood).
ye very true, no one minds prostitution as long as a) its not next door and b) its not on the streets
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Unread 23 Jan 2006, 13:38   #36
eJohn
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Re: Mark Oaten steps down after affair with rent boy

I dont think it should be an issue. Presumably if hes a ludicrously liberal as some of the people on this board he wouldnt see much wrong with prostitution.
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